Bike Crackdowns in Michigan [Archive]

zmudshark

07-15-2008, 06:53 AM

First the city of Detroit says you have to have a license on your bike, or it's a $50 fine, and now Ann Arbor has cops pursuing cyclists who break the law.

Now I'm not opposed to obeying traffic laws *most* of the time, but how embarrassing to be chased down like this:
http://blog.mlive.com/annarbornews/2008/07/large_biketickets1_071408.jpg

http://blog.mlive.com/annarbornews/2008/07/ann_arbor_police_cracking_down.html

myette10

07-15-2008, 07:09 AM

I could drop those two.

cadence231

07-15-2008, 07:26 AM

I could drop those two.

We could taunt (http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_sounds/hg/fart.wav) them!http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m131/cadence220/38.gif

Fixed

07-15-2008, 07:39 AM

that will never happen where there are a lot of cyclist all over town

or you know poor folks who ride to get where they are goin
cheers imho ...they would have hire a bunch of new cops and train them how to ride :beer:

Keith A

07-15-2008, 08:18 AM

I could drop those two.So if the bike cops can't catch you, do they call in for a car? I think it's fair that only a bike cop can give a cyclist a ticket :D This could make for some interesting interval work outs...and I guess it would keep some of the police officers out of Krispy Kreme.

BumbleBeeDave

07-15-2008, 08:49 AM

Ann Arbor has a population of almost 100k, Detroit is multiple hundreds of thousands. How many bike cops do they have? Are only the bike cops going to chase down bikes, or are cops in cars going to do it, too? How long before the first kid on a BMX bike gets killed in traffic because they're running from a cop in a car? What does a cop do if some yahoo on a bike runs and starts cutting through yards and getting away? Chase him? Shoot him?

What kind of advance publicity and grace period have they given citizens to register their bikes? Are parents going to get called at work because their 12 year old riding home from school has been stopped for not having a "bike license?" Or are the cops only going to go after "serious" cyclists? This should be semi-fun to watch play out . . .

BBD

Fixed

07-15-2008, 09:00 AM

what happened to Ann Arbor i though that was one of the hippest towns in the u.s. ?
cheers

johnnymossville

07-15-2008, 09:03 AM

Leave it govt. to squeeze just a little more fun out of living. Bah!

Samster

07-15-2008, 09:16 AM

how utterly stupid. doesn't say much for the intellectual acumem of law enforcement. sorry to any policemen members out there but this one just takes the cake -- and eats it too.

Samster

07-15-2008, 09:22 AM

but then again, a lot of cyclists do a lot of stupid things too. imo. so maybe the chasers have a point.

learlove

07-15-2008, 09:32 AM

what the heck is a "bike liscense"? What about the 3 year old on the sidewalk riding tricycle? Is he/she going to get stopped.

like fixed said, what about the people that rely on the bike for transportation? When I lived in DC (crystal city) I saw many hispanic people on the standard target or sports authority $159.99 mtb. Its not a toy to thoes people. Its how they get from job to job everyday.

whats next a sneaker liscense??

learlove

07-15-2008, 09:37 AM

so I should have read the article first. I agree obey the traffic laws. But where is this info on a "bike liscense"?

stormyClouds

07-15-2008, 09:51 AM

It does seem silly in a way, especially looking at that picture.
On the other hand, with more and more commuters every day, there has to be some enforcement of traffic rules. Many motorists don't mind sharing the road with cyclists as long as we all abide by the same laws.
That is not to say that I have never run a light on my bike, but I can see where they are coming from. Reading the article linked in the OP, it is pretty embarrassing that the girl stopped on the bike said that she didn't even know she was supposed to stop for the red light. Not a great abassador for us commuters.
How it will work remains to be seen. If it does anything to improve the motorist/cyclist relationship in town, it could be a good thing. I would trade having to stop at a few lights for not having beer bottles thrown at me when I ride.

zmudshark

07-15-2008, 09:52 AM

so I should have read the article first. I agree obey the traffic laws. But where is this info on a "bike liscense"?
http://www.m-bike.org/blog/2008/07/03/detroit-police-announce-bicycle-license-enforcement

Ahneida Ride

07-15-2008, 10:18 AM

what the heck is a "bike license"? What about the 3 year old on the sidewalk riding tricycle? Is he/she going to get stopped.

like fixed said, what about the people that rely on the bike for transportation? When I lived in DC (crystal city) I saw many Hispanic people on the standard target or sports authority $159.99 mtb. Its not a toy to those people. Its how they get from job to job everyday.

whats next a sneaker license??

Next is an integrated cell phone - Wallet - GPS - ID.

One will not be able to make financial transactions without this device.
The standard sell will be "It's for your protection."
There will be no off button. One where abouts will always be known.

Every purchase and every move one one makes will be recorded
in perpetuity. :eek:

Big Brother will know when you took you last dump and what tissue you
perfer and where and when and how much you purchased that tissue for.

Tis all for your protection ! :crap:

BumbleBeeDave

07-15-2008, 10:20 AM

. . . will simply be added to the already long list of rarely enforced ordinances that most cities have that let officers use them as excuses to stop people they deem to be suspicious. It will be enforced selectively when needed as a pretext, just like the long list of excuses for cars like burnt out taillights, "obscuring" license plate frames, etc.

Ask any cop about this and if they are being honest with you they will confirm it. Are they going to stop some "serious" cyclist--a (usually) white guy on an obviously expensive bike wearing all the "serious" kit? Probably not. But if you're Hispanic or Black on a Wal-Mart special riding through the "wrong" neighborhood--translate upscale--I'd bet money you will get stopped to "check your license." This will also give them a chance to inspect you more closely to find some other excuse to search you for drugs.

Sorry to sound so d@mned cynical, but I've just seen it play out here locally that way too many d@mn times.

BBD

Climb01742

07-15-2008, 10:36 AM

Fixed

07-15-2008, 10:43 AM

perhaps the police should focus first on getting motorists to obey all the traffic laws. yes, riders do dumb shiite but drivers do far more. there is no comparison between the damage a 160 lbs rider going 17 mph can do vs a two ton vehicle going 60.

+1
it gets me when cats rag about bikes.. but they don't obay the laws when they drive ..speed limits are the big ones almost eveybody breaks them roll a stop .. crossing double yellow line ..etc
cheers

BumbleBeeDave

07-15-2008, 11:02 AM

stormyClouds

07-15-2008, 11:24 AM

. . . so much as it's a matter of there being so many traffic laws already and so many cars and only a limited number of enforcers and there's no way they can every enforce all of them equally or fairly.

What might be far more effective in, Say, Ann Arbor, is for the city to require any store selling a bike to go through a checklist with the new owner to reinforce the point that bikes ARE vehicles under traffic law and the rider has a responsibility to follow those traffic laws just like when driving a car. The city might then do a "secret shopper" survey occasionally to make sure it gets done. I know that idea might not be popular with LBS owners, but you have to take account of the reality that simply to start having officers ticket scofflaws will not in itself lead to effective enforcement. It also takes educating the populace on an ongoing basis so they know these laws apply to them.

BBD
Part of the problem in Ann Arbor is that it is a college town. I would venture to say that a good majority of the people riding bikes in AA are college students on junk bikes - not your typical SF forumite who might ride their bike respectfully through town.
I have seen a lot of crazy bike action there. This spring I saw a dude riding into uncoming traffic (on the left side of the road), no hands, ipod on, coffee in one hand, etc.
These are the kind of people that are going to get motorists pissed at the average joe cyclist.
There are some 50,000 Univ of Michigan students tooling around AA and a ton of them ride bikes. Not sure how to educate them about safe riding or if it is even possible.

Chad Engle

07-15-2008, 03:13 PM

how utterly stupid. doesn't say much for the intellectual acumem of law enforcement. sorry to any policemen members out there but this one just takes the cake -- and eats it too.

Law enforcement didn't make the law, they.................enforce it. Don't hate the player, hate the game. :no:

zmudshark

07-15-2008, 07:38 PM

Being the OP and all.

A2 sucks for riding, the roads are crap, and the bike lanes are crushed glass depositories.

The only 'bike friendly' road out of town resembles the roads in Dresden in 1945.

The two main arteries other than the River road are owned by gravel trains that don't obey speed limits or safe clearance.

I have to put my bike in a car and drive 25 miles one way to get to a good spot (which I did today, so my mood is actually good), and then, my friend who rides clinchers flatted (again) on the crappy roads.

A2 is not bike friendly, or really people friendly. When the police obey the traffic laws, I'll start obeying them. They're supposed to lead by example, the snot nosed punks, not be on a power trip.

Yep, I feel a bit of hostility, but the darned 'smart lights' aren't triggered by by my bike, the cops are the worst speeders, and I would just drop the sonovb's if they chased me for clearing light when it was safe to go.

PS,-- more than one cyclist has been killed in the area by inattentive drivers. Two tons vs 20 lbs ain't a fair fight. I'd rather have a bike come too close than an Escalade driven by a texting, soda drinking, loud music listening, AH.

Thanks, I'm done ranting, but now I'm thinking about screwing with the bike cops during art fair this week. I'm thinking the Merckx and the 280/330 Ti combo wheelset might be overkill, maybe GP4's on the beater Cinelli, so I can jump curbs, would be the ticket. Camo kerchief and my old SDS T-shirt would top it off.

Let's roll, Dano.

zmudshark

07-15-2008, 07:46 PM

Law enforcement didn't make the law, they.................enforce it. Don't hate the player, hate the game. :no:

They applied and accepted the job. That excuse doesn't fly in my world, and I still have one or two cop friends still left (funny, because one is a devout Libertarian, who pulls folks over, but never gives tickets, unless it's 'unavoidable', I like him, though I don't agree with him on most things).

I'm old, I'm opinionated, and I hate people telling me what I should do, when they don't follow their own 'rules'.

Lead by example, or you are not a leader.

Ginger

07-15-2008, 07:50 PM

Thanks for reminding me of the art fair. I've never been and I think I should go before I get the heck outta dodge...

:)

stormy's got a point about A2 cyclists. it's not like there's one or two cyclists or group rides ignoring signals (although...they do...) it's the herds of riders who have no clue about riding on the street. Of course, their parents probably didn't teach them any more than how to ride on the sidewalks...

zmudshark

07-15-2008, 08:18 PM

There are no students in town now, though the foreign students did arrive this week.

It will be mid August before the students are in town, so that excuse doesn't fly.

I have noticed more clueless folks on bikes lately, but I think that is because there are no jobs here, and people are using bikes for basic transportation, which I applaud.

If it takes another Bush to raise the cost of motorized transportation so high that the fat billies here hop on a bike, well that is a plus side.

Yep, I'm bitter, and have had a beer, now.

Dekonick

07-15-2008, 08:26 PM

IT is working - people are talking. If that is what it takes to get compliance, then so be it. If it were not a problem, this would not be a policy.

Believe me, the police have enough to deal with - and the ground troops don't make policy - they just enforce what they are told to enforce.

Somehow, I believe you first need to break a law to have the law on your tail...

Now the bit about needing ID... BIG BROTHER...

If you don't have ID and break the law...well the police have the right to detain you until you can prove who you are. I just keep a photocopy of my license in my *GASP* saddlebag...

Oh - there are arses in uniform, but there are arses everywhere. Just because someone is in a police uniform does not make them evil.

The point about triggering lights... I have to admit it is a PITA with a titanium frame, aluminum and carbon bits - the biggest steel piece I have is the cassette and it wont trigger 'em. I use the crosswalk button. :beer:

bike <3'er

07-15-2008, 08:36 PM

Imho, this is indeed government, knowing that illegal immigrants very often travel by bike. It's another moment where law enforcement can freeze a person to make certain they are indeed a citizen. Detroit jumped on this, wanna ride a bike? You need a license, an official piece of paper. Would an illegal immigrant go to Town Hall to get one?

It's not about cats in skinsuits, it's about illegal dudes.

bigmatt

07-15-2008, 08:42 PM

----
What might be far more effective in, Say, Ann Arbor, is for the city to require any store selling a bike to go through a checklist with the new owner to reinforce the point that bikes ARE vehicles under traffic law and the rider has a responsibility to follow those traffic laws just like when driving a car. -----

BBD

I can't speak for other shops in AA, but the shop I work at does have that checklist. We use Sutherlands Bike Inventory sheets (http://www.sutherlandsbicycle.com/CCdetailM.html) at our store, and it has a checklist that every new bike owner reads through and initials each line and then signs at the bottom. The simple fact is even that is going to help. As many of the clueless riders are not on new bikes they bought recently, but old beat to crap bikes that barely work or walmart type bikes that barely work.

And, I am the friend the OP referred to that flatted on my clinchers. So far not too good as new wheelset two rides, two flats on the front!

ThasFACE

07-15-2008, 08:54 PM

They're supposed to lead by example, the snot nosed punks, not be on a power trip
I love Ann Arbor, but the power-tripping coppers were not my favorite in my time there (read: really did not like them at all).

Anyway, as with most laws in A2 (open intox and open container especially), any bike-related laws will be enforced selectively and hopefully only when the rider is truly being dangerous.

zmudshark

07-15-2008, 09:13 PM

Believe me, the police have enough to deal with - and the ground troops don't make policy - they just enforce what they are told to enforce.

Somehow, I believe you first need to break a law to have the law on your tail...

Yes, but just because you break a 'law', doesn't mean you have to be ticketed.

Rolling through a red after you clear the traffic isn't life threatening to anyone. If you were in a car or SUV the light would trigger if there was no oncoming traffic. My steel bike doesn't trigger a light in town, and no, I'm not unclipping, walking over to the pole and pressing the friggin' 'walk' button.

Isn't the law there to protect, not punish?

Anyway, I'd drop the cops in the photo and have them call in hot pursuit, they'd love it. I can just see the guns a blazing and the headlines in the local rag "Cyclist Gunned Down After Fleeing for Disregarding Traffic Laws".

'The suspect fled at speeds approaching 30 miles an hour, with no regard for safety, we had to shoot him...'

When the cops quit driving 5-10 over and yacking on their cells while crossing the lane markers, I'll follow their example, until then, if the laws only apply to a few, they are not just laws.

Personally, I'd love the rush of being able to ditch some 20something punk cops, at 58 years old.

Think I'll put on some Zappa and drift off to sleep on that...

Fixed

07-15-2008, 09:15 PM

Yes, but just because you break a 'law', doesn't mean you have to be ticketed.

Rolling through a red after you clear the traffic isn't life threatening to anyone. If you were in a car or SUV the light would trigger if there was no oncoming traffic. My steel bike doesn't trigger a light in town, and no, I'm not unclipping, walking over to the pole and pressing the friggin' 'walk' button.

Isn't the law there to protect, not punish?

Anyway, I'd drop the cops in the photo and have them call in hot pursuit, they'd love it. I can just see the guns a blazing and the headlines in the local rag "Cyclist Gunned Down After Fleeing for Disregarding Traffic Laws".

'The suspect fled at speeds approaching 30 miles an hour, with no regard for safety, we had to shoot him...'

When the cops quit driving 5-10 over and yacking on their cells while crossing the lane markers, I'll follow their example, until then, if the laws only apply to a few, they are not just laws.

Personally, I'd love the rush of being able to ditch some 20something punk cops, at 58 years old.

Think I'll put on some Zappa and drift off to sleep on that...
my kinda cat
cheers :beer:

Chad Engle

07-16-2008, 06:20 PM

Everyone hates cops until they need one......

zmudshark

07-16-2008, 06:24 PM

Everyone hates cops until they need one......

I've never found them to be particularly helpful when I actually *needed* someone to enforce the laws or protect my property.

YMMV

Fixed

07-16-2008, 06:40 PM

Everyone hates cops until they need one......
i don't hate them i like them .. how many cats will risk their life to save yours ..... i

cheers
i have never had a ticket driving or riding and i say yes sir to police

now : security guards them i do not care for today one tells me i can't lock it( my bike) to a tree ..and starts pointing to a bike rack across the street full of bikes bro i was way out of the way no one was going fall over my ride .i was in this place 3 mins.
i say nothing and walk over and unlock my bike then it was hey are you an employee here i don't say a thing ... screw a : security guard they always want to jerk you around .... i know they can't touch you they are not the police
cheers

Dekonick

07-16-2008, 08:04 PM

i don't hate them i like them .. how many cats will risk their life to save yours ..... i

cheers
i have never had a ticket driving or riding and i say yes sir to police

now : security guards them i do not care for today one tells me i can't lock it( my bike) to a tree ..and starts pointing to a bike rack across the street full of bikes bro i was way out of the way no one was going fall over my ride .i was in this place 3 mins.
i say nothing and walk over and unlock my bike then it was hey are you an employee here i don't say a thing ... screw a : security guard they always want to jerk you around .... i know they can't touch you they are not the police
cheers

Often security guard = cop wannabe.

rwsaunders

07-16-2008, 08:54 PM

You can smoke a joint while walking down the street butt naked in Ann Arbor, but you get arrested for skipping a light. Oh well.

zmudshark

07-16-2008, 08:58 PM

You can smoke a joint while walking down the street butt naked in Ann Arbor, but you get arrested for skipping a light. Oh well.
Bro, This is the 21st Century, you can't do that anymore in A2.

ThasFACE

07-16-2008, 09:54 PM

Everyone hates cops until they need one......
I like most cops (work with them on a daily basis) but recognize that some can sometimes cross the line a little bit. There are great ones and there are some not-so-great ones, like anything else.

The trouble with attitudes toward cops, as I see it, is that it's like the development of attitudes toward lawyers. People generally only have to deal with lawyers when something bad happens, so they go into the interaction in a negative mindset. Same with cops.

That said, what I observed in Ann Arbor re: po po conduct was not awesome at all. Definitely came away with the sense that there was a department-wide agenda in place to throw sharp elbows at students as much as possible.

rwsaunders

07-16-2008, 10:01 PM

Bro, This is the 21st Century, you can't do that anymore in A2.

They must have been concert cigarettes. :cool:

Chad Engle

07-16-2008, 11:37 PM

I like most cops (work with them on a daily basis) but recognize that some can sometimes cross the line a little bit. There are great ones and there are some not-so-great ones, like anything else.

The trouble with attitudes toward cops, as I see it, is that it's like the development of attitudes toward lawyers. People generally only have to deal with lawyers when something bad happens, so they go into the interaction in a negative mindset. Same with cops.

That said, what I observed in Ann Arbor re: po po conduct was not awesome at all. Definitely came away with the sense that there was a department-wide agenda in place to throw sharp elbows at students as much as possible.

That may very well be the case and I don't begrudge anyone their right to categorically hate all of those in any particular profession. Never been to Ann Arbor, so I really can't argue whether or not they're decent folks.

But the op was about a law, which I agree is plain stupid, and all the hate is directed at the cops, who play no part in making the laws. I'm out.