dbrk's recent remarks

[FMS_rider]

I have to start with an apology to the people who I have, in essence, singled out because they happened to post in a thread I feel a need to call attention to that is currently buried in the classified section: http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=48049. I also want to say that I love this forum and am very fond of many of the people who post here, and am making these remarks because I am deeply troubled by the departures of the experts of many sorts, and by the Sword of Damocles that appears to still be hanging over the very existence of the Serotta forum.

To get right to the point, I feel strongly that we need to take dbrk's comments along the lines of a dead canary in a coal mine. There is a real human being behind every post --the "it's just a forum" and "this is one of the most civil forums around" excuses do not hold any water for me (even though I have previously made the latter comment). As anyone who has been reading or posting here for more than a few months knows, dbrk is one of the most highly regarded and respected people not only in the world of cycling but in the academic world as well where such reputations are exceedingly difficult to come by (an opinion also stated by several others in the thread with dbrk’s posts). I have read many snide remarks here regarding the new Velocipede Salon forum and the people who now do most or all of their posting there rather than here. However in the past few weeks during which I have been posting there (as well as here), I have come to the conclusion that the Salon has a much friendlier environment than currently exists here. I know that some of the decisions that Too Tall has made in the interest of civility on that forum are unpopular here, and I am sure he would be the first to admit that he has made a few mistakes. However after a brief rocky start he has succeeded in creating a wonderfully warm environment despite the presence of some very outspoken, strong minded (but highly knowledgeable) individuals. Ironically, the latter group includes several who were often singled out as major contributors to what was judged by long-timers here as an increase in personal attacks and negativity on this forum --as far as I can see their departure has done nothing to reverse that trend.

Although fiamme red should be applauded for his apology, dbrk’s remarks clearly did not get through to others. I am certainly not blameless--I made quite a number of obnoxious and insulting attempts at humor when I first started posting here and still have an occasional lapse. However I now recognize that there is a problem that needs to be worked on --a careful reading of the thread I cited will make that apparent. In my opinion we should thank and respect dbrk for his angry words --I suspect they are the first he has ever uttered on this forum.

Lew

In part because it helps to clarify issues that were discussed in the thread I have called attention to, here is a link to a parallel thread on the Velocipede Salon forum: http://www.velocipedesalon.com/foru...read.php?t=1087.

[Charles M]

I'll sure be glad when the two forums can simply be two forums and the tickler threads stop.

[csm]

seems to me if you miss the other posters you can go over there and have at it.

[gdw]

+1 I'm tired of the weekly whine and link to the other forum.

[MarleyMon]

velocipedesalon link is bad.

dbrk has forgotten more about bikes than I'll ever know.

I think there is an economic backstory to the vsalon that is not openly acknowledged -
I get the feeling a lot of oxes have been gored, and people feel disrespected.
Thats me on the outside looking in.

On that Hampsten bike -I just can't get upset about 2 cm of stem and the wrong colored computer,
and I'm sure not upset about who DOES gets upset.

[Ray]

Sheesh. Plenty of good people here. Plenty of good people there. Lots of them are the same people. I keep a foot in each sidi, as it were. I try to take responsibility for my own level of civility and not worry too much about others if I perceive that they lack it sometimes. I think there was an economic backstory, as noted earlier and, but for that, we'd still all be one big, happy, dysfunctional family.

-Ray

[girlie]

There is a difference between:

http://www.atmosalon.com
and
http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/index.php

- an evolution which was a progression.....bravo.....yet there are sides whether economic or cabalic;)

blah blah blah lah lah lah :D

[Sandy]

Don't we realize that threads in the Serotta Forum which evolve into comments comparing the Serotta Forum, and its posters, to the other forum, and its posters, only hurt the Serotta Forum?

Don't we realize that threads of the aforementioned description are not tolerated on the other forum, that reasonable behavior is insisted upon/moderated to be that way, and useage of acronyms, terminology, and inside jokes are greatly limited? The other forum has learned from the Serotta Forum what is acceptable/reasonable and what is not.

Please stop perpetuating the evolution of threads into a we versus them forum.

Please stop it.


Sandy

[Ginger]

Sandy is absolutly correct (mark the calendars, I'm agreeing with him.).

Nothing like driving a wedge.


This thread does nothing to forward the cause of harmony.

[markie]

Please stop perpetuating the evolution of threads into a we versus them forum.

Please stop it.


Sandy

+1

I do think DBRK was being overly sensitive and if he does not want to post here, well that is up to him. I do not see the point of sucking up to individual posters every time they have a hissy fit.

[thwart]

Just a shame to lose folks with tons of knowledge we can all benefit from.

A damn shame... :crap:

[csm]

I think the bigger shame is that they lost us minions who know nothing. I mean, who are they gonna teach over there? all us simpletons is here!

[Fixed]

I think the bigger shame is that they lost us minions who know nothing. I mean, who are they gonna teach over there? all us simpletons is here!
rolf
bro
cheers
ROLF
Rolling On Laughing Floor
THe floor is laughing while we are rolling on it

[csm]

if it makes their absence any easier to bear, I will say I like those that are left here better.

[Lifelover]

....I am deeply troubled....

.....


This needs to goto the NFF ASAP ATMO!

[93legendti]

I have nothing to add other than the curious action(s) of certain poster(s) who announced their departure(s) with an explanation as to why he/she are upset and done here only to return here to post classified ads.

I wish everyone well. FWIW, I have perused the VS and I have seen some aggressive behavior towards shino and Sandy.

[Kevan]

but on a bike.

This cool morning's ride (long sleeve, pulled up the the elbow) was super. I hope someone can see the sense to my distraction.

[FMS_rider]

but on a bike.

This cool morning's ride (long sleeve, pulled up the the elbow) was super. I hope someone can see the sense to my distraction.Thanks Kevan, Sandy, Ginger and others for helping me to regain some perspective. I apologize for the post. As I said earlier, I love this place.

Lew

[jeffg]

honestly

If folks who putatively left want to come back and call people out for things said on this forum despite being "done here" ... why?

If folks want to direct barbs over at the other side from here ... why?

Sports Futility ... and that's the WORD

[DukeHorn]

It's unfortunate, but when I got the drawings from my builder last week, the first thing I thought was "how can I minimize the slope of my top tube" to avoid ridicule on the street (/curse my stubby legs and my short height). Seriously. I asked him to raise the standover and to flip my stem negative so I could see what that looked like.

Then one of my co-workers pointed out that this bike was for me and my purposes and whether I want to go up Old La Honda on a triple with a steel frame and fork is entirely up to me.

I just think posting people's bikes from the gallery here and making fun of them is a bit gauche. And if that action has been stopped, more power to everyone and I take back all my prior comments.

yeah yeah, I know the bit about ignoring other folks comments but I'm human, tis not easy.

[shinomaster]

I have nothing to add other than the curious action(s) of certain poster(s) who announced their departure(s) with an explanation as to why he/she are upset and done here only to return here to post classified ads.

I wish everyone well. FWIW, I have perused the VS and I have seen some aggressive behavior towards shino and Sandy.


The new salon was MP at first but it's much improved.. I'll always clash with a few penguin haters it would seem..

[paczki]

The new salon was MP at first but it's much improved.. I'll always clash with a few penguin haters it would seem..

Have you seen the new Herzog documentary about the South Pole? I think you'll find it funny.

[dannyg1]

The new salon was MP at first but it's much improved.. I'll always clash with a few penguin haters it would seem..

What's 'MP' short for Shino? I can't imagine why you'd catch a hard time anywhere. Everything I've read of yours is spoken kindly.

Danny

[shinomaster]

What's 'MP' short for Shino? I can't imagine why you'd catch a hard time anywhere. Everything I've read of yours is spoken kindly.

Danny


Wow, Dannyg....it's really nice to hear that from someone other than my mom! Affirmation is always great.
MP is short for "mad-painful."

[bike <3'er]

but on a bike.

This cool morning's ride (long sleeve, pulled up the the elbow) was super. I hope someone can see the sense to my distraction.

Talk about a perfect day to ride in the New York area...mid 80's, no humidity. Then again, I must admit to enjoying 90's with super high humidity.

BTW, I am available for a bike ride in your fantastic neck of the woods. Is there an appearance fee? If so, I will donate it to charity. :D

[shinomaster]

Have you seen the new Herzog documentary about the South Pole? I think you'll find it funny.

I'll check it out!

[jeffg]

Then one of my co-workers pointed out that this bike was for me and my purposes and whether I want to go up Old La Honda on a triple with a steel frame and fork is entirely up to me.

It is. Wanna ride up OLH sometime?

[capybaras]

you guys are cool :beer:

[93legendti]

The new salon was MP at first but it's much improved.. I'll always clash with a few penguin haters it would seem..
And I'll fight for your right to be a penguin. My kids LOVE penguins.

[shinomaster]

And I'll fight for your right to be a penguin. My kids LOVE penguins.


Oh really? Love penguins you say??

[93legendti]

Yes, especially warm weather penguins.

[TMB]

For gawd's sake people , grow up.

The navel gazing and whining is beyond tedious.

I can imagine no quicker way way to kill this place than to continue having 6 threads a day whining about either this place or that place or, worse, both places.

Grow up.

places change, people change. Get over it.

[Tony Edwards]

Jeez Louise - talk about much ado about nothing. With no disrespect meant to the departed posters, I can't seriously respect being both insanely hypersensitive to perceived slights here and simultaneously being categorically insulting to this board and its denizens. I've been a member here for many years (and mostly a lurker), and have seen more than one member storm off in an e-huff. C'est la vie.

Let's go ride!

[slowgoing]

this place rocks. always has, always will.

[Blue Jays]

I like both and post at both under the same name.
Haven't noticed the comparison threads because I typically chat about bicycles themselves rather than the forum websites at which I view them.

[Kirk007]

I post both places. I like both places. But if you don't think the tone and amount of bile has overall increased here in the past year then you either weren't here before or your not reading. It is a less respectful place than it was ATMO.

[BumbleBeeDave]

I have been on the forum for over 5 years. Speaking in overall terms, it has indeed gone downhill in the past year. There does indeed seem to be less mutual respect and more willingness to take quick offense. At first I thought this might have to do with the election and political threads. While the situation has improved somewhat since those were banned, it has certainly not returned to the level it was at before.

Nor have things been fixed by the great migration of "those people"--whoever you would like to put in that group. While there were certainly a few in that group who I personally found it difficult to get along with, I could always simply ignore the bile or self-serving comments and move on, which I tried hard to do. Most of the time I succeeded. But then again, I never claimed to be perfect! I'm sure there are also many times when many people found it necessary to try their best to ignore me. ;)

I have not been over to the "other" forum, the "dark side," the "Evil Empire" or whatever you want to call it. I may go over. I may not. I hardly have time to look in on THIS forum lately. But I'm at a real loss to understand why certain denizens of either place can't just move on and cease the sniping back and forth and trolling back and forth and sideways comments. They accomplish absolutely nothing for the common good.

And with that exodus a great amount of humor, knowledge, and personality also seems to have left. I can't quantify it in scientific terms. But it is real to me, nevertheless. Now, with this latest ridiculous contretemps in the classifieds, it seems even dbrk and his infinite patience have been defeated. Pestering him to the point of his abandoning this forum is just too much. Over the top. Beyond the pale. Whatever you want to call it.

Look at my message total. I've been here a long time and on here almost every day. I have not posted much lately, but I'm lurking and seeing what's going on, just as I would wander into the neighborhood bar each night on the way home from work for a quick pint and to see what's what in the neighborhood. Not once in that time have I ever heard Doug Brooks--dbrk--every utter an unintelligent word. Or an insult. Or a stupid statement. Or an ounce of bile. Or anything that did not contribute to the atmosphere and knowledge and level of discussion that I lament the departure of.

Not. Once.

Never.

EVER.

Get it?

With this latest incident I have less hope than ever that things are worth staying here for. Yes, as some have said, it's just an internet forum. And the Stars and Stripes is just a flag, and my Home is just a house and Honor is just another word. But just as these things MEAN a lot to a lot of people, so does the community here and the help and friendships I have found here MEAN a lot to me. It's so sad to see it sliding into senility and mindless, worthless bickering.

BBD

[csm]

seems like there is an attitude among a few that some pigs are more equal than others.
In all seriousness, the reason I do not post at the other forum is because there seems to be a prevailing mindset among some that have gone over there that they are the chosen ones. and that seems to be echoed over here with the lamenting of their departure.
I never had an issue with dbrk; or any of the others (not gonna list them but I am certain that their absence let's everyone know who I mean) but I am not gonna continue ask where and why they've gone. they left on their own free accord. I am not as prolific a poster as others but I log on to the forum at least once a day.
should we start a petition and demand they come back? should we offer to pay them for their wisdom? should be throw up a sacrificial lamb to get them back? or should we let it go and I have a feeling that they will migrate back here. though it might not be like the old days, it might still be ok.
I'd threaten to leave but I suspect some would like to see that.

[girlie]

I just couldn't resist:D

Sweet Harmony (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3onThP1rBms&feature=related)

[rwsaunders]

On a lighter note, we have our regular Sunday ride scheduled for tomorrow and a Forumite that I have never met is going to join us. He's visiting town for the U.S. Transplant Games cycling event and I offered to have him join our ride, as a warm-up to his event.

I'm looking forward to meeting Ron and introducing him to my riding buddies. If any of you fellow brothers and sisters in this asylum ever have a reason to visit Pittsburgh, I'll do the same for you.

Without having had the pleasure of meeting the man, DBRK is still a gentleman and a scholar in my book and I'll eventually get to his Ramble, come hell or high handlebars.:cool:

[Smiley]

I miss some that have left and yet I don't miss others either. I miss some that are no longer here like Big Mac and Dave Novolosy, and my good buddy Roy E Munson and others whom I have forgotten their names already (Anhieda come back soon).

We can and should conduct our chats with civility. I take anything one says about any of my posts as just one mans opinion on the interweb. I think my friend dbrk threw the baby out with the bath water when he condemed the whole forum since if he had an issue it was with one or a few. His choice but I am still going to the ramble to finally meet the guy. So I hope he comes back but I can't lose sleep about it since my life revolves around many more important issues then bike forums anyway. This forum has and continues to be a great resource for me and I have and will continue to make friends here. So please when you post think about what you say and how that maybe preceived by others, good or badly intended.

Ride you bikes and enjoy the journey

[PBWrench]

Girlie -- thanks for the video clip. Considerably more uplifting than the thread. It did make me consider revisiting my vow to never shave my legs. Smoooooth . . . .

[Bruce K]

Ladies and gents, PLEASE, let's just move on and enjoy what and who we have here.

I'm going to lock this puppy and if Pete feels otherwise, he can re-open it.

BK