Saddles and what I have found, so far...(long, very long)

[SoCalSteve]

Hi all,

This is a long overdue follow up to this thread:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=41544&page=1&pp=10

In the end (pun intended) I did find a pretty comfortable "modern-plastic" saddle...But (t) (pun intended) its been a long and painful road with lots of interesting twists and turns.

Start at the beginning...I had high hopes for many saddles out there, not realizing that being a really big guy ( 6' 5" 240 lbs) that my choice of finding the right saddle would be so hard (pun intended). I started with the really cool and lightweight racing saddles (130mm wide)...and realized very quickly that these saddles are meant for "Manorexic's".

I then went the complete other direction with the Selle SMP Plus and thought I had found "nirvana" even though it is pretty ugly (one of my goals was to find an aestehtically pleasing saddle as well)...Turned out that I could never find a comfy position with the Selle SMP (159 mm wide). It would start out feeling like a great comfy leather sectional sofa and after about 5 miles would feel like a very uncomfortable plastic airport chair.

After being measured on the Specialized "Ass-O-Meter" I went to a thinner but wide saddle, the 155 mm wide Toupe. I was told that after a couple hundred miles it would be perfect....well, it never even came close to being perfect, not even close, ever, never.

From there I tried the Arione and Aliante with horrible results...To the point where I was off the bike for a few weeks..Yeah, the Arione was a torture device to me of monumental proportions...

From there I thought I would try the 143 mm wide Toupe....Nah, too narrow...

So, 155 and 159 was too wide...130 and 143 were too narrow...

Cut to: The 2008 Selle Italia Max Flite Gel Flow saddle...150 mm wide, cut out and just enough padding....Well, I have found my perfect "modern-plastic" saddle...even though its heavier than most at 300 grams, its very, very comfortable...And its getting more so the more I ride it, adjust it and my sensitive big behind gets more and more used to it...

Best of all I like the way they look and they comes in both black and white.

Thanks for reading,

Steve

PS: There is a bit more to this whole "saddle story", I did learn a great deal about postion, saddle to bar drop, being more in tune with my position, watching the way other riders sit on their bikes, and a myriad of much useful information that I would not have gotten had I not ventured down this path (and stuck with my beloved B-17 only).

Much thanks goes to Swoop who actually taught me to be more of a cyclist and not a bike rider and to Malcolm who sent me a couple saddles (both turned out to be torture devices) but they were free to test out...

[Smiley]

Serenity now :)


ps: ever try the Brooks Swallow?

[SoCalSteve]

Serenity now :)


ps: ever try the Brooks Swallow?

The point of this long, arduous and sometimes painful experiment was to get away from Brooks saddles completely.

I have pretty much tried all the Brooks saddles at one point or another and have found that my "serenity now" is the B-17 with Ti rails.

[Smiley]

The point of this long, arduous and sometimes painful experiment was to get away from Brooks saddles completely.

I have pretty much tried all the Brooks saddles at one point or another and have found that my "serenity now" is the B-17 with Ti rails.
Your a slave to fashion :)

[pdmtong]

my own philosophy is not to compromise on the saddle, bar or pedals. You'll feel those every second you are on the bike. Unless you are racing or have some special purpose, the time on the bike should be very pleasant. I take the specialized ass-o-meter with a grain of salt. Of course it tells me I am a 143...but that does not explain why i can sit on a arionne (130mm) for 11 hours, or why my specialized phenom SL 130 works fine. go figure. Now that you have reached the end of your road, all that's left is to enjoy. congrats!

[SoCalSteve]

Your a slave to fashion :)

Isnt everyone in Hollywood?

[TAW]

Steve,

Fill in some of the tidbits about positioning and how they affected your saddle choice, if you would, please. Also, how many miles do you have on your new saddle?

Thanks

[SoCalSteve]

Steve,

Fill in some of the tidbits about positioning and how they affected your saddle choice, if you would, please. Also, how many miles do you have on your new saddle?

Thanks

I have probably close to 500 miles at this point...

Positioning..meaning fore-aft...saddle height....and,

I have just been watching how others ride. How they sit on a bike, their position, the way they move or dont move, the way the handlebars are in relationship to their saddles, how flat their backs are...etc, etc, etc....

You can learn a great deal about yourself and how you ride by watching others ride...The Tour is also a great place to see the real pro's....really watch them and try to emulate them as close as you can (within your own limitations, of course).

I truly think that a Brooks B-17 is meant for more upright and a "modern-plastic" saddle works better within a "racing style" position.

[Dekonick]

so - where can one get this saddle?

[SoCalSteve]

so - where can one get this saddle?

Thats a secret...

Actually, at this point, they are kind of hard to come by. If you really want one, you need to buy me another one (just joking).

Steve

Here ya go: https://www.outsideoutfitters.com/default.aspx

[Climb01742]

steve, how much do you think the cut-out helps? i've never tried a saddle with a cut-out. in my saddle trials and tribulations, i've found that width matters a lot and whether the saddle has a slight hammock vs being flat. very glad you're riding happy. saddles can be such a :crap: :eek:

[bostondrunk]

SoCal,

Did you ever try a Regal??
I'm sure I've tried at least 10 different saddles over the past few years in search of the modern lightweight saddle that would work, but I always end up back with the Regal.
The only other one I'm thinking of trying at the moment is a Concor.

[alancw3]

steve: thanks for this very informative thread on saddles. i know it has been a long process for you and i am sure many of us appreciate your sharing the results of your search.

[39cross]

Steve - how much adjusting of your saddle(s) have you done as you became acclimated to them? Do these have longer rails then the B17 TI? Sometimes on the Brooks I run out of room to get them far back enough.

[Ray]

Steve - how much adjusting of your saddle(s) have you done as you became acclimated to them? Do these have longer rails then the B17 TI? Sometimes on the Brooks I run out of room to get them far back enough.
Brooks have notoriously short rails. When Selle San Marco (I think - one of those Selle's) bought them, they lengthened them some and they're STILL very short. Hence, for those who like a lot of setback, you need a slack seat tube angle, a high-offset post, or both. My B-17 bikes have 72 degree seat angles and seatposts with a good amount of layback. With an Aliante, which is MY plastic racing saddle of choice, I can fit on a 73 degree seat tube with just about any normal setback post. Brooks are a drag that way. My understanding, which could be a lot of hooey, is that when Brooks started making saddles, most of the old English Raliegh's had like 70-71 degree seat tubes and were meant to be be ridden bolt upright (making a more forward position comfortable), so the saddles were fine for that application. Bikes have changed more than the saddles over the years.

-Ray

[Fixed]

Hi all,

This is a long overdue follow up to this thread:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=41544&page=1&pp=10

In the end (pun intended) I did find a pretty comfortable "modern-plastic" saddle...But (t) (pun intended) its been a long and painful road with lots of interesting twists and turns.

Start at the beginning...I had high hopes for many saddles out there, not realizing that being a really big guy ( 6' 5" 240 lbs) that my choice of finding the right saddle would be so hard (pun intended). I started with the really cool and lightweight racing saddles (130mm wide)...and realized very quickly that these saddles are meant for "Manorexic's".

I then went the complete other direction with the Selle SMP Plus and thought I had found "nirvana" even though it is pretty ugly (one of my goals was to find an aestehtically pleasing saddle as well)...Turned out that I could never find a comfy position with the Selle SMP (159 mm wide). It would start out feeling like a great comfy leather sectional sofa and after about 5 miles would feel like a very uncomfortable plastic airport chair.

After being measured on the Specialized "Ass-O-Meter" I went to a thinner but wide saddle, the 155 mm wide Toupe. I was told that after a couple hundred miles it would be perfect....well, it never even came close to being perfect, not even close, ever, never.

From there I tried the Arione and Aliante with horrible results...To the point where I was off the bike for a few weeks..Yeah, the Arione was a torture device to me of monumental proportions...

From there I thought I would try the 143 mm wide Toupe....Nah, too narrow...

So, 155 and 159 was too wide...130 and 143 were too narrow...

Cut to: The 2008 Selle Italia Max Flite Gel Flow saddle...150 mm wide, cut out and just enough padding....Well, I have found my perfect "modern-plastic" saddle...even though its heavier than most at 300 grams, its very, very comfortable...And its getting more so the more I ride it, adjust it and my sensitive big behind gets more and more used to it...

Best of all I like the way they look and they comes in both black and white.

Thanks for reading,

Steve

PS: There is a bit more to this whole "saddle story", I did learn a great deal about postion, saddle to bar drop, being more in tune with my position, watching the way other riders sit on their bikes, and a myriad of much useful information that I would not have gotten had I not ventured down this path (and stuck with my beloved B-17 only).

Much thanks goes to Swoop who actually taught me to be more of a cyclist and not a bike rider and to Malcolm who sent me a couple saddles (both turned out to be torture devices) but they were free to test out...
swoop is a smart cat for sure
cheers

[Mud]

than most spend on a nice bike. My wife is a descendant of the princess in the story of the "Princess and the Pea". After too many to count she likes her Rolls. Thanks for small favors.

I liked the Brooks and have no issues with them. But prostate issues at one time, psoriasis, and some other stuff made any ride bad news for a while. I finally tried a Terry Falcon. I never liked the spilt saddles because the sides always broke down and caused me to be numb. I have been riding the Falcon for quite a while and like it. It comes with a 30 day return if someone were willing to try it.

I think that Climb said it was width and I agree. I never cared for the Arione or the narrow Terry. I used to like the Koobi but I had a couple break so that was it for that brand.

The funny part about this Terry is that it does not matter what shorts I wear. I have an S13 Assos, the Assos second line which is about an $80 retail short and a very thin Chamois, and just got a pair of Pro De Marchi. The saddle disappears with all of them.

Don't know if this helps anyone, but might be worth 2 cents in today's economy.

[Climb01742]

SoCal,

Did you ever try a Regal??
I'm sure I've tried at least 10 different saddles over the past few years in search of the modern lightweight saddle that would work, but I always end up back with the Regal.
The only other one I'm thinking of trying at the moment is a Concor.

BD, i can send you a concor to try, free, no obligation. i'm a regal fan too, and while i dig the shape of the concor, it's not wide enough for me. if you want to try one, here's a way to do it without losing any dough.

[keevon]

SoCal,

Did you ever try a Regal??
I'm sure I've tried at least 10 different saddles over the past few years in search of the modern lightweight saddle that would work, but I always end up back with the Regal.
The only other one I'm thinking of trying at the moment is a Concor.

Agreed that the Regal is a nice saddle, but I found that the Specialized Phenom 143 fits me better. It's flatter than the Regal and my thighs don't rub the sides (my Regal 'skirts' are wearing thin). The cutout seems to work, or at least I don't notice it.

[SoCalSteve]

steve, how much do you think the cut-out helps? i've never tried a saddle with a cut-out. in my saddle trials and tribulations, i've found that width matters a lot and whether the saddle has a slight hammock vs being flat. very glad you're riding happy. saddles can be such a :crap: :eek:

Selle Italia also makes the exact same saddle without a cut out. By mistake, I was sent one of those as well. Honestly, I cannot feel the difference between the 2 saddles. Both are comfy.

Wait, I take that back. The saddle with the cutout weighs 5 grams lighter and I sure feel the difference! :banana:

Cut out: Gel Flow

Non cut out: Genuine Gel

[SoCalSteve]

SoCal,

Did you ever try a Regal??
I'm sure I've tried at least 10 different saddles over the past few years in search of the modern lightweight saddle that would work, but I always end up back with the Regal.
The only other one I'm thinking of trying at the moment is a Concor.

Yes, I didnt like it. For that "style" I prefer the B-17 Ti railed.

[SoCalSteve]

Steve - how much adjusting of your saddle(s) have you done as you became acclimated to them? Do these have longer rails then the B17 TI? Sometimes on the Brooks I run out of room to get them far back enough.

Every saddle has more adjustment than a Brooks. I found I have to use a FSA seatpost with 3.5 cm of setback to get my B-17's to work. I have since switched to the Ritchey 2 bolt system with 2.5 cm of setback and I have plenty of room to adjust fore-aft (and do so all the time-still fine tuning).

[Moontrane]

Selle Italia also makes the exact same saddle without a cut out. By mistake, I was sent one of those as well. Honestly, I cannot feel the difference between the 2 saddles. Both are comfy.

Wait, I take that back. The saddle with the cutout weighs 5 grams lighter and I sure feel the difference! :banana:

Cut out: Gel Flow

Non cut out: Genuine Gel

SoCalSteve:

Thanks for your report.

I tried the 2008 Max Flite Gel Flow and found it too flexy. I could literally depress the plastic shell on either side toward the back by pressing with my hand. Is the non-cut out equally flexy?

[SoCalSteve]

SoCalSteve:

Thanks for your report.

I tried the 2008 Max Flite Gel Flow and found it too flexy. I could literally depress the plastic shell on either side toward the back by pressing with my hand. Is the non-cut out equally flexy?

Yeah, the shell is the same...

But, flexy or not, its very comfortable. Whether you can move the saddle with your finger, hand or behind is irrelevant if the saddle is comfortable.

For me, its not science, its not art, it seems to be a magical thing... Why one saddle works and another doesnt is beyond my comprehension. I tried saddles that looked like they would be super duper comfy and after 5 miles I wanted to sell them...and, this one just seems to work for my fat arse....

Go figure.

Your results (and behind) may vary,

Steve

[kgreene10]

I want to get in on this one and express my saddle-angst. During this process, I have experienced saddle-hope, saddle-depression, saddle-poverty, saddle-sadness, and tons and tons of saddle-numbness. It's beyond me why the oodles of engineers out there can't come up with a better range of options. I know that we are all different, etc., but c'mon.

I have tried around 20 saddles by now and I get the least displeasure from the Selle SMP Stratos. I would love to have, as a prior poster put, the saddle "disappear" when I ride, but I would just settle for something that doesn't make me fear that I'll be hooked on the blue pill in a few years.

There are certainly saddles left to try, but I have gone through the SMP line, a few Fiziks, much of what Selle Italia makes, a San Marco or two, and just today, a Terry Fly. Some of the cutouts are well-positioned and appropriately-sized, but the more I try to emulate good riding form by rotating my hips and flattening my back, the more I get compressed against the nose. Inevitably, I'm fighting numbness after 30 minutes on the trainer or about an hour outside.

Any knowledgeable advice -- if there is such a think with saddle fit -- would be appreciated.

Why doesn't some enterprising cycling fanatic with an MD come up with a method for crafting custom performance saddles for which s/he could charge us a mint?

[ecl2k]

I think sitting on your perineum for a prolonged time is unnatural and the pain is your body's way of telling you that. We didn't evolve to sit on a little hard plastic perch for several hours in a row. I think you can adapt with a lot of miles, find a saddle that hurts least, very strong cyclists aren't putting a lot of weight on their perineum anyway, they are balanced on their feet and arms, but I think attaining that position requires quite a bit of athleticism and flexibility, and most of us are just average joes. In general it's just not natural and you have to adjust your expectations. It seems that most would do better with a little heavier saddles (a lot of people seem to like brooks here) but we don't want to settle for that look or the weight, who is to blame there?

[Peter P.]

I have probably close to 500 miles at this point...

Positioning..meaning fore-aft...saddle height....and,

I have just been watching how others ride. How they sit on a bike, their position, the way they move or dont move, the way the handlebars are in relationship to their saddles, how flat their backs are...etc, etc, etc....

You can learn a great deal about yourself and how you ride by watching others ride...The Tour is also a great place to see the real pro's....really watch them and try to emulate them as close as you can (within your own limitations, of course).

I truly think that a Brooks B-17 is meant for more upright and a "modern-plastic" saddle works better within a "racing style" position.

Man, you have become a guru on saddles and all your methods and observations ring true.

You are absolutely right about Brooks saddles being for a more upright position, which is exactly what I learned. As I leaned forward to my lower bars, my hips would rotate and the back of my thighs would get "stabbed" by the flared section of the saddle, which had no padding or give. Only narrower, plastic saddles fit the bill here.

[Ray]

Man, you have become a guru on saddles and all your methods and observations ring true.

You are absolutely right about Brooks saddles being for a more upright position, which is exactly what I learned. As I leaned forward to my lower bars, my hips would rotate and the back of my thighs would get "stabbed" by the flared section of the saddle, which had no padding or give. Only narrower, plastic saddles fit the bill here.
That's true of the B-17, but far less true of the Pro, and not at all true of the Swift or Swallow, which are made for aggressive racy positions just like a Flight or an Arione. Brooks makes a bunch of saddles, some of them are as wide as Iowa and with springs to soften the ride, some of them are good touring saddles, and some of them are racing saddles. You just have to choose the right one. Not that everyone should like them, but they do offer every type of saddle except super-light!

-Ray

[Climb01742]

another aspect of all this that complicates it is... we are asking a mechanical system to compensate for what might be anatomic challenges. for example: i recently discovered my pelvis is twisted, so i sit on my saddles crooked. i have tried many many saddles and almost always felt pain near by left sitbone. it turns out, with my pelvis twisted as it is, my left side, hence my left sitbone, is bearing more than its fair share of weight. some saddles make this worse, some better. but the ultimate answer is to try to untwist my pelvis. i wonder how many saddle woes are really anatomy woes? i think mine is.

[93legendti]

I have a saddle I love--except with the lower priced LG and PI shorts. For me, part of the equation is a good chamois.

[paczki]

That's true of the B-17, but far less true of the Pro, and not at all true of the Swift or Swallow, which are made for aggressive racy positions just like a Flight or an Arione.

I find the Arione and the Swift/Swallow very comfortable and very similar. But YBMV.

[Sheldon4209]

Most saddles today are flat but a few curve up in the back. After trying Terry and Specialized flat saddles I tried the Specialize Rival MTB saddle which curves up in back. The fashion police don't approve of the Rival but it works the best for me.
Sheldon

[Kurt]

I went through a similar deal a month ago, I broke the last flight I had and did not want to deal with a old design anymore and trying to find one. tried a toupe last year and did not care for it - tried a Arione and a few others and then started to ask a few guys in the area, coaches, fitters, etc and the toupe GEL started to pop up quite a bit - that is what I got, in a 143 and after a week all was good. I have to say at this point I dont notice it anymore, even after 4-5 hrs back to back on a weekend. what made it all come together is having a minor fit session again by aron gadia, a local cat 1 - in <5 minutes he made it feel perfect, I would never been able to tweak it the way he did so fit is every important, esp for the toupe. the gel is worlds apart from the normal one, totally a different animal.

[Ray]

Most saddles today are flat but a few curve up in the back. After trying Terry and Specialized flat saddles I tried the Specialize Rival MTB saddle which curves up in back. The fashion police don't approve of the Rival but it works the best for me.
Sheldon
The Aliante does curves up in back too, or "hammocks", for any who might have been wondering. Its the only plastic racy saddle that's worked well for me, for several seasons now. And I've noticed quite a few of them in the Tour peloton so far this week.

-Ray

[SoCalSteve]

I went through a similar deal a month ago, I broke the last flight I had and did not want to deal with a old design anymore and trying to find one. tried a toupe last year and did not care for it - tried a Arione and a few others and then started to ask a few guys in the area, coaches, fitters, etc and the toupe GEL started to pop up quite a bit - that is what I got, in a 143 and after a week all was good. I have to say at this point I dont notice it anymore, even after 4-5 hrs back to back on a weekend. what made it all come together is having a minor fit session again by aron gadia, a local cat 1 - in <5 minutes he made it feel perfect, I would never been able to tweak it the way he did so fit is every important, esp for the toupe. the gel is worlds apart from the normal one, totally a different animal.

And I tried all 4. 143 gel and non gel and 155 gel and non gel and my sensitive behind did not get "behind" any of them...

Just sayin'

Steve

[ols]

And I tried all 4. 143 gel and non gel and 155 gel and non gel and my sensitive behind did not get "behind" any of them...

Just sayin'

Steve


Does all 4.143 mean you tried the Alias 143 and you didnt like it any better than the Toupe 143? (Alias works for me but the Toupe does not.)

Excellent that you found a saddle which does work for you though!

[Kurt]

And I tried all 4. 143 gel and non gel and 155 gel and non gel and my sensitive behind did not get "behind" any of them...

Just sayin'

Steve

what brought it all together for me was the bike fit - I will spare you all the details, but I had an adjustment years ago because I blew out my calf, basically much lower and forward and that was not working with the toupe - as soon as the guy raised me all the issues went away. he also used some sort of laser source to adjust my shoes in. he trained under swift and it a cat 1 ultra coach so I trust he knows more than I do for sure. I just got back from a ride and I have to say I love the way the seat feels and I also like the looks as I have a black sys6

[Kevan]

who has probably bought and tried every saddle made. In fact, it is probably his fault that the saddle companies continue to come out with so many models. It's a "Build it and they will come" mentality, I think.

Remember the web fabric Saddle Co.? Yup, he tried that one too.

Anyway, sorry that my friend has created this mess.

[giordana93]

I'm pretty lucky in that I've got really narrow sit bones, so the racing styles usually do me ok, but I too like to roll my hips forward and do not care for the flat across the top saddles. yes the aliante does have a curvature, but it's fairly constant in that, unlike the shape I prefer and which is getting very hard to find: the rear going up in a nice gentle curve--you can find a few of these--but then leveling off to a nice shelf--and those I pretty much have not been able to find. one other thing which is hugely important in this, besides the obvious fore and aft, is the saddle angle. a few degrees up or down can make all the difference in the world (and sometimes it is the opposite direction one thinks would work) and a condition that also matters is the type of riding that is going on. if 75% of the ride is on the rivet, the position will be different than just a cruising position because when we hammer, there is less weight on the hands, or rather it is easier to tolerate a nose down saddle because the pedaling action is enough to keep one from sliding forward. or something like that. I'm still looking for my 21st century saddle too.

[SoCalSteve]

who has probably bought and tried every saddle made. In fact, it is probably his fault that the saddle companies continue to come out with so many models. It's a "Build it and they will come" mentality, I think.

Remember the web fabric Saddle Co.? Yup, he tried that one too.

Anyway, sorry that my friend has created this mess.

Actually, I am thrilled that he did as it has given me a choice of many varied saddles...

There was one point where I thought it was futile and that I would never find anything comfortable past about 5 miles...And, I was truly skeptical with the Selle Italia Max Flite as well...It has proven me wrong on many riding occasions now...Flats, hills, fast riding and slower...all very comfy.

So, dont apologize for your friend. Thank him from me.

Steve

[tbushnel]

Anyone compare/contrast a Regal to a Brooks swallow? I ride a Regal now and really like it. But the taper from the back to the nose is a bit too wide. If I slide forward slightly my thighs don't rub too much. I was thinking I would like the ~wide rear to the swallow but may get less rub (assuming the taper/nose is more narrow than the Regal).
Anyone?
TEd.

[jchasse]

If anyone's interested in a white 2008 Selle Italia Max Flite Gel Flow like the one pictured in the first post, let m know. I've tried it for a month and it's just not workin' out for me...

JC

[SoCalSteve]

If anyone's interested in a white 2008 Selle Italia Max Flite Gel Flow like the one pictured in the first post, let m know. I've tried it for a month and it's just not workin' out for me...

JC

PM and email sent

Thanks,

Steve

[overthehil]

What I think is that with all the comments about getting enough setback, many of you have trouble finding comfort simply because you are trying to sit too far back behind the pedals. This has two adverse effects. One, you unconsciously correct this by sitting more forward on the saddle, which is not the part you were meant to sit on, and the nose of the saddle ends up really intruding on your private parts.

BTW, like that commercial about the old Hollywood actress who says it's the movies that got small, it's not the Brooks that doesn't have enough rail, it's the bikes that got more and more vertical seatposts.

I wouldn't exactly say a B17 is for upright riding. It depends on how upright is upright. It's not really wide enough for the weight that upright riding puts on the butt. But it probably was meant for riding that was more upright than the road racing position became over the years.

Personally, I can live with just about any saddle if both it and me are positioned right, as long as it's not too padded.

[jchasse]

I'm gonna try a Regal now, since that's about the only saddle known to modern man that i haven't yet bought... :rolleyes:

[SoCalSteve]

I'm gonna try a Regal now, since that's about the only saddle known to modern man that i haven't yet bought... :rolleyes:

You sound like me in my quest...

I funded Paypal, btw.

Thanks,

Steve

[SoCalSteve]

What I think is that with all the comments about getting enough setback, many of you have trouble finding comfort simply because you are trying to sit too far back behind the pedals. This has two adverse effects. One, you unconsciously correct this by sitting more forward on the saddle, which is not the part you were meant to sit on, and the nose of the saddle ends up really intruding on your private parts.

BTW, like that commercial about the old Hollywood actress who says it's the movies that got small, it's not the Brooks that doesn't have enough rail, it's the bikes that got more and more vertical seatposts.

I wouldn't exactly say a B17 is for upright riding. It depends on how upright is upright. It's not really wide enough for the weight that upright riding puts on the butt. But it probably was meant for riding that was more upright than the road racing position became over the years.

Personally, I can live with just about any saddle if both it and me are positioned right, as long as it's not too padded.

Geez, how wide is wider than a B-17???

You are my hero if any saddle works for you, truly my hero! I so wish that were the case...

[palincss]

I wouldn't exactly say a B17 is for upright riding. It depends on how upright is upright. It's not really wide enough for the weight that upright riding puts on the butt. But it probably was meant for riding that was more upright than the road racing position became over the years.


+1
In fact, if you look at the old Brooks catalogs such as this one from 100 years ago
http://www.brooksarchives.info/brooks%20/catalogs/1908%20brooks/page14and15.html
you'll see that the B.17 was originally their road racing saddle.

[overthehil]

The B17 isn't THAT wide! It's kind of in the middle ground in that it's just narrow enough that it can be fine on a racing bike. Keep in mind that despite all the internet misinformation there is out there, even a handlebar at saddle level isn't really an upright position unless the bars are really in close. The B17 is just right for that.

[Kevan]

but I decided to try this saddle with the upcoming orange Ebisu:

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=12723&category=2951

http://www.universalcycles.com/images//products/large/12723.jpg

[cmg]

[QUOTE=Kevan]but I decided to try this saddle with the upcoming orange Ebisu:

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=12723&category=2951

THE Lux Imported Leather Saddle
Smooth imported leather
Ti rails
279x127 NOT very wide, very narrow racer type.
180g

[Kevan]

I should of spent more time comparing it to the flight size, it might end up ebayed.

[Ahneida Ride]

Gee ... one could spend up-teen zillion frns checking out new saddles.

For me the B17 Ti works rather well.
I can ride in plain old shorts. No Chamois.

I'll think I'll stop experimenting ....
Besides I love the look of a well weathered leather saddle.

Next on the Agenda is a B17 with springs. ;)