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View Full Version : Low down, no good LBS blues


dts
10-13-2004, 10:20 AM
There are good reasons to patronize one's LBS. But are they good enough? The foolishness I've seen and heard lately has me thinking I need to patronize someone else's.

A year ago, I had a shop in Berkeley build up my new Rambouillet because their wheelbuilder was recommended by a well informed contributor on this forum. The brand new bike came back to me with a nice set of wheels and a seat tube decal torn though the clearcoat. Now I didn't see it happen, but that tells me somebody got lazy and put the repair stand clamp on the frame instead of installing a seatpost and clamping that. That's just stupid.

We have four shops here in Davis. For years, I knew and trusted the head mech at the high-end shop. His work was always excellent. Then a couple years ago, the shop changed hands, and the new racer/owner sent my man away and brought in a former team wrench. Nothing against him, but since I wouldn't know what I was getting anyway, I decided to give some business to another shop that leads the way here in supporting the local cycling community (century and double sponsor, club sponsor, etc.). The results were satisfactory until one day a few weeks ago I saw through the shop window that they had a bike clamped to a repair stand by the frame. Trust shot, I resolved to go elsewhere.

So on Monday, I was dropping my Hor's Categorie off at a third shop in town. The two mechanics working at the time couldn't tell me whether the bearings in my 2001 Record bottom bracket are replaceable. When I explained why I was changing shops, one of them said they sometimes "have to" clamp the frame. Nonsense.

Neither of them had seen a DKS rear triangle before. One of them, whom the other later told me builds frames, said it would surely fail. I told him I was sure he is right -- after all, frame building is just a hobby at Serotta, so they probably have never heard of metal fatigue before.

Then one of them proposed to "nick" my seatpost with a knife to mark its height, and wanted to do it in the front, where stress is greatest. I told him I had done that myself before, on the side of an alloy post, but thought it was a bad idea given how thin the tube of my Chorus ti post is. He was unpersuaded, so I walked my bike out the door and back over to the high-end shop I used to use.

Some time last summer, the new owner moved to Bend and sold that shop. His team mech was gone, too, and there stood two strangers in shop aprons. After some fudging, one of them hazarded an obvious guess that my bottom bracket is a cartridge with non-replaceable bearings. At that point, I realized that in all of Davis, there is not one mechanic competent to replace or overhaul my bb. So I scratched that off the list of things to be done and wrote up a work order for some minor stuff. Before leaving, I asked, "You won't clamp the frame tubes, will you?" As one of them answered, "not unless you tell us to," I looked over and saw a CIII on one of the repair stands, clamped, of course, to the top tube.

I tried to patronize my LBS, really I did. Not anymore.

saab2000
10-13-2004, 10:26 AM
.....are not uncommon. I have seen horrible things done to expensive bikes during my days and I have seen really know-nothing "mechanics" working on $5,000 bikes.

I would recommend the following. Get yourself a good stand, some of the tools and a book on wrenching and start doing some of the things yourself. You will find that it really is not that hard and is FAR more satisfying.

Good bikes are a pleasure to work on and you will really know your bike nicely.

A really good LBS is hard to find.

eddief
10-13-2004, 10:35 AM
DTS,

Just curious which shop marred up your Rambouillet. As a local, I would appreciate knowing who to add to the list. If you are reluctant to say here on the list, just shoot me an email.

bostondrunk
10-13-2004, 11:00 AM
In general, I find -most- bike shops suck for service. Just plain suck. For some reason the employees feel they need to be snots, and are usually not the least bit helpful, often have very little product knowledge even of the stuff they have in stock.
Learn to fix your own bike and use mailorder.

djg
10-13-2004, 11:11 AM
So this was the "why use a harmless fine-point felt tipped marker or a piece of tape when you can score the tubing" school of thought?

kestrel
10-13-2004, 11:13 AM
I understand, and have seen first hand the problems you have encountered. Because of this, I did my own repairs and upkeep to my bikes, until time became a problem. I found a not-so-LBS in Mooresville, NC that has the kind of service most bike owners wish for. They remember my name, always greet me (and other patrons) with a cheery smile and hello, whether from behind the counter or through the repair area window/doorway. I drive 50 miles one way to visit this shop with my biking needs. Well worth the trip to get that kind of service. I pass 3 or 4 other shops on the way that deliver the kind of non-caring service you speak about.

William
10-13-2004, 11:33 AM
Ditto.

I posted on this a while back, but I'll pass up the shop near my home and drive a half hour to go to a shop with the same type of service Kestrel mentioned. Good service and good prices are worth the drive to me.

SCORE MY SEAT POST WITH A KNIFE???

I'd show him what to do with that knife!! :butt:


William

coylifut
10-13-2004, 11:49 AM
That's big population base to not to have a reliable wrench. Are these shops clamping your tubes because there is not enough seat post to fit into the clamp? I just mark it with tape and slide the post out. Besides chasing and facing, I do all of my own work. However, when I'm stumped, I have a wrench that greets me by first name and moves my stuff to the front of the cue. It has everyting to do with the fact that I tip him. Even the best home mechanic can use a set of expert eyes from time to time.

dts
10-13-2004, 01:55 PM
Yes, it is a big population base, with a University racing team, a club racing team, several professional triathletes and (so the City claims, as if anyone really knows) the highest number of bikes per capita in the US. We had a fine mechanic here not that long ago, but I can't find one for the life of me now.

I do most of my own work, but not headsets and bottom brackets. Next time I need that, I'm going to Steve Rex's frame shop in Sacramento. Hopefully, a custom builder's mechanic would know how to treat a fine frame.

Then again, after what I've seen this week, I fear laziness may rule the day everywhere. It can't be that they don't know better. Even I know better.

bulliedawg
10-13-2004, 02:09 PM
[QUOTE=kestrel] I found a not-so-LBS in Mooresville, NC that has the kind of service most bike owners wish for.QUOTE]

First Flight?

kestrel
10-13-2004, 03:44 PM
[QUOTE=kestrel] I found a not-so-LBS in Mooresville, NC that has the kind of service most bike owners wish for.QUOTE]

First Flight?

Nah! Cool Breeze Cycle Shop! First Flight's might be in Statesville, NC. I heard they're pretty good also.

Todd Owen
10-13-2004, 03:47 PM
I think the key is to get to know a sales person or just buy a load of $tuff at the shop so they give you a little TLC. Wheatridge has always been helpful and Excel sports also has excellent mechanics. I think longevity of the owners and staff make a big difference. how do you clamp a bike with a carbon seat post?

Tom
10-13-2004, 03:55 PM
... how do you clamp a bike with a carbon seat post?

Well, first I use a knife to nick the carbon post so I can clamp it back in the bike at the same height. I like to put an old metal one in while I'm wrenching.

Heh heh.

William
10-13-2004, 03:56 PM
how do you clamp a bike with a carbon seat post?

Pull it out and put in a metal one.


William :)

gasman
10-13-2004, 04:02 PM
The LBS I use has been great. I have used them for years and bought several bikes from them. They have done a good job wrenching my bikes when I don't have the time. Recently I decided to start doing more of my own work again,I got some great advice from the forumites here and good help from the shop. In fact, at Bill Bove's suggestion I asked if there were any mechanic courses that I could take to update my knowledge, they just said ,"Bring your bike on down and we can show you how to install your new BB and cranks." I did it and it was way easier than repacking two cups of breaings.I also did some other work and brought down one of my other bikes and did some work to fix a "tick". I am going to order a few tools from them that don't have and use my stand at home from now on.
So how's that for service !

BTW- I never clamp a carbon seat tube, I pull it out and put in an old alloy seat tube.

Serotta PETE
10-13-2004, 04:38 PM
For those living in NJ, I would recommend Cyclesport in Parkridge. It has been a family owned business for over 40 years. Mike and Dean are excellent.

For those south of the Mason Dixon, I would recommend Spincycle in Cary NC.
Matt and Kevin have been there for many many years!!!

And YES, they are both Serotta Dealers. :banana: :banana: :banana:

dohearne
10-13-2004, 05:10 PM
Maybe it is because ours is a small town, or maybe because I have bought 2 bikes there, or maybe because the owners (husband and wife) are serious bikers), or maybe because the 2 of them are just great people, I have always received great service from my LBS. In fact I go out of my way to find excuses to visit the shop. Today I spent 45 minutes of great conversation with the LBS owner regarding my HRM readings on my recent century. A month ago he retrued my wheels after a crash - no charge. I know others have had negative experiences, but here in VT we're lucky to have our local bike shop whose owners' biggest enjoyment seems to be getting more people doing more miles.

shaq-d
10-13-2004, 05:24 PM
in the time it took to go to all those places, u coulda bought the tools and replaced the record BB urself with little difficulty, and saved dough on the supergo.com sale they have on campy components right now. least, that's what i did.

makes me glad to know that toronto has tons and tons of bike shops, 2 of which have excellent mechs..

sd

Kevan
10-13-2004, 05:36 PM
but your carbon post can take a firm squeeze. I plant my USE in the jaws of my Park, with a small towel to soften the bite. No problem in the 3 years of ownership.

I too have had the unhappy experience to turn around and see my beauty's top tube being squeezed. It was a difficult moment because one of the guys in the shop saved me from being stranded on the roadside. He scooped me and my steed up and took me in the direction of home, but to the shop for a tire replacement. I was looking around the shop in hopes of finding something to pad my order, in a way thanking them for saving me, only to see my bike's predicament. It took some delicate conversation to suggest that a seatpost is more expendable than a frame tube.

terry
10-13-2004, 05:53 PM
i've heard/seen many more horror stories like those mentioned that's why i won't let anyone touch my bikes. my less mechanically inclined buddies prefer my work so much that i can charge them beer for work done, up to a case for a full build. only problem, they drink it while i'm working-haven't figured out how to get them to leave while i'm working.

slowgoing
10-13-2004, 05:56 PM
dts - installing headsets and bottom brackets isn't that tough. For about $100 you can buy a headset press and it's pretty easy from there. Bottom brackets require a special socket for shimano/campy (and a torque wrench if you want to get the torque just right), but there's nothing much else difficult about it besides remembering which way to turn the socket to install v. remove the bb. I bought these just to avoid the hassle of loading my bike in the car to get it done by an lbs. It may not make economic sense (after all, how many headsets do we each need to install?), but it's much nicer to be able to do the entire build in one sitting at home.

vandeda
10-13-2004, 06:08 PM
The results were satisfactory until one day a few weeks ago I saw through the shop window that they had a bike clamped to a repair stand by the frame. Trust shot, I resolved to go elsewhere.


Oh my gosh .... I would have thought that bike shop employees would know better. This was the very reason the seat tube on my Calfee Dragonfly was cracked :crap: .... and also the very reason I'm getting a workstand and doing the work myself. I fortunately have a friend at work who used to work in a high-end shop for years to ask questions and get help from.

The only other time I plan on having a person work on my bike is when Sacha White builds up my Vanilla ... but for some odd reason, I trust him ;)

Dan

csb
10-13-2004, 07:23 PM
send the bike(s) to mike + dean @ cyclesport,
sleep well

Dekonick
10-13-2004, 09:33 PM
OK - this may be a stupid question...

None of my bikes show enough seatpost to clamp. I like the idea of a spare aluminum tube...but I have never had a problem clamping my top tube with my stand. I am careful, and adjust the clamp to put minimum pressure, and wrap the tube first with a cotton cloth. Is this risky??

spiderman
10-13-2004, 09:44 PM
cenna is the best...expeditionco.com
...you'll like it so well you'll probably
want to come live here!
obtw,
stay away from the guy with the knife...
...next thing you know
he'll want to use it not only to mark your seatpost
but to lance your saddle sore...

owch!

Jeff N.
10-13-2004, 11:13 PM
Thats why I have taken the time to learn the finer points of bike building, invested some dough in all the necessary tools, and let nobody....NOBODY.....come toward any of my bikes with a tool except ME. I now will always know the job is done right. Total peace of mind. Jeff N.

Tom Byrnes
10-14-2004, 12:08 AM
The only other time I plan on having a person work on my bike is when Sacha White builds up my Vanilla ... but for some odd reason, I trust him ;)

Dan


It is trust well placed.

;) ;) :)

Tom

Ken Lehner
10-14-2004, 08:30 AM
When I explained why I was changing shops, one of them said they sometimes "have to" clamp the frame. Nonsense.

I own an aluminum tubed bike, whose seat tube and carbon seat post are aero shaped. The only way I know of to clamp this bike on my workstand is by the round top tube. What would you have a mechanic do with this bike?

http://www.cervelo.com/images/2004/2004-P2K-full.jpg

Why is it safe to clamp a front derailleur to the thin-walled down tube on my Legend Ti, but not safe to clamp a workstand?

Serotta PETE
10-14-2004, 09:44 AM
OK - this may be a stupid question...

None of my bikes show enough seatpost to clamp. I like the idea of a spare aluminum tube...but I have never had a problem clamping my top tube with my stand. I am careful, and adjust the clamp to put minimum pressure, and wrap the tube first with a cotton cloth. Is this risky??

It is risky, the top butted tube is thin on quite a few bikes. Clamping to the seat post or to a spare seat post you insert is the safest.

If you are just cleaning, a suggestion to to "drape" the seat over the stand connection point (pointing down to let gravity hold bike. This works for me cleaning but still clamping the seat post is best.

Ahneida Ride
10-14-2004, 09:47 AM
That's why I travel a good 70 miles up to Ludlow VT.
Great Service, No attitude, Fair prices.

If I have a problem ... repaired immediately. How may Mechanics would
drive in from home at 5 to six (closing time is 6) to install a new crank ?

Find a shop where you are always dealing with the actual owners who are true bike enthusiasts.

Kevan
10-14-2004, 10:34 AM
I think clamping a frame tube is WAY more common with mechanics than clamping the post. Heck... thinking back to an old issue of "ProCycling", even the mechanics pictured, building up Telecom's brandy-new carbon Giants, were clamping the top tubes.

It's something we don't want to face, but in most cases, if the person is careful, the bike will survive unscathed. I'm not condoning the practice just stating the reality of the sit-che-ation.

WickedWheels
10-14-2004, 11:04 AM
That goes back to steel frames of old. They were all strong enough to deal with the clamping forces. When I first started wrenching (10 years ago) we never grabbed a bike by the post. It was very difficult to adjust to the switch, once aluminum and carbon became more common, because you suddenly starting leaning over a lot more.

I am wondering if some of the bikes you saw in the stands were clamped that way lightly only to hold them up, rather than being worked on. It happens sometimes.

Depending on the work done, clamping a carbon post or even a frame will done no damage. Adjusting a derailleur or changing a tire will not put any force on the tube that's clamped. I've seen many GREAT mechanics clamp these lightly out of convenience (and consideration for their backs) to do such work. Of course, on nice bikes, they use something to protect the decals and paint from the greasy clamp.

Pulling out a BB or installing a crankset is a different story, of course. Any decent shop/mechanic will have "dummy posts".

BTW, next time you see this talk to the mechanic and tell him/her why they shouldn't do that. What you may consider a nice, expensive, lugged frame they may consider an outdated piece of junk that they've never heard of.

Oaklandhills
10-14-2004, 11:09 AM
DTS and Eddie - are you doing the Foxy Century this weekend? this will be my first Century. Do you know anything about the ride any local knowledge.

Thanks

Ozz
10-14-2004, 01:33 PM
I own an aluminum tubed bike, whose seat tube and carbon seat post are aero shaped. The only way I know of to clamp this bike on my workstand is by the round top tube. What would you have a mechanic do with this bike?

http://www.cervelo.com/images/2004/2004-P2K-full.jpg

Why is it safe to clamp a front derailleur to the thin-walled down tube on my Legend Ti, but not safe to clamp a workstand?

My $0.02:

Remove seatpost - replace with alloy one and clamp.

Fr Derailleur has equal clamping force all around tube. Also, there is very little bending or side force put on tube when shifting - relative to torquing a BB at least.

hooverone
10-14-2004, 01:38 PM
here is the fix, now the mecahics get the bike higher and do not clamp your frame.


http://www.parktool.com/whats_new/newproducts.shtml#PRS20


Jim

dts
10-15-2004, 02:47 PM
DTS and Eddie - are you doing the Foxy Century this weekend? this will be my first Century. Do you know anything about the ride any local knowledge.

Thanks


Oaklandhills: I posted a reply to this in the Rides/Events section, where it may be easier for others to find. Hope you enjoy the ride!

dts
10-16-2004, 11:00 PM
Picked up my bike today from the high end shop in town. No damage done, but the work was shoddy, and there was another bike clamped by its seat tube to the repair stand. Now I'm going to have to trash the bar wrap to re-route the cables. Apparently, the mechanic didn't know how Campy brifter cables are supposed to be routed on double-grooved bars, as he routed the derailleur cables over the top and to the front as if the bars were ungrooved. I was too relieved to have the bike back without damage to ask them to make it right.

Anyway, it confirmed everything discussed above. I'm doing my own work from now on, or hauling my bikes to Oakland or Sacramento if I can't.

EPOJoe
10-17-2004, 12:24 AM
Have you found a decent shop in the greater Sacramento area, DTS? I've been to most all of them, and haven't been impressed. Downright scared by a few of them. The few good wrenches that I did know around here have vanished and been replaced with kids who barely seem to know what they're doing. I can't think of anyone around here who I'd really trust with my bikes anymore. Funny, I was actually thinking of trying some of the Davis shops :confused:

dts
10-17-2004, 09:00 AM
The few good wrenches that I did know around here have vanished and been replaced with kids who barely seem to know what they're doing.

That's exactly what happened in Davis. I'm now sure that three of our four bike stores have incompetent and/or lazy mechanics, and I don't think the fourth is likely to be an improvement, as it's focused on kids' bikes and hybrids.

Have you tried Steve Rex's mechanic in Sacramento? I haven't, but Steve himself is super, and I wonder if the tiny shop of a fine frame maker wouldn't be a better bet than a store. If not Rex Cycles, I'd go to Cyclesports in Oakland. Long way to go for a wrench.

Ken Lehner
10-17-2004, 09:26 AM
My $0.02:

Remove seatpost - replace with alloy one and clamp.



It's not round, but aero shaped. I don't think my clamp would hold it. Also, I can't imagine having to buy a Cervelo aluminum aero seatpost just for my bike stand!

dts
10-17-2004, 11:22 AM
Hey EPAJoe, maybe if we pooled our resources we could buy enough beer to get terry out here from southeastern Mass.

Still trying to figure out how much they screwed up. Should the thicker cables go to brakes or derailleurs?

And I never found anyone here in Davis who could tell me if bearings in a 2001 Record bottom bracket are replaceable. Anyone have that answer? Either way, it looks like that job will be done in my garage.

93legendti
10-17-2004, 11:45 AM
I tried to patronize a local shop (a Serotta dealer!) owned by a nice guy. In 1999, I took my Legend to have a threadless fork and headset installed. Within 10 minutes of riding the Legend after the repairs, I found that my stem was loose (at the hbs)and the front brake was loose. I tightened them and rode home. I called the "nice guy" to advise him they should check these tightness/safety issues more carefully and for what i was chraged expecting the bolts to be properly tightened before it left hsi shop was a reasonable thing to expect. His answer was "huh?"-- no partial refund, no apology--and no return by me. I go a little farther out of my way to another Serotta dealer--where they tighten bolts. The guy is still in business but I hear other people with similar tales... i.e. missing cog spacers when new cogsets were installed, etc...***?

Big Dan
10-17-2004, 12:10 PM
I have a similar story to Legend's. Took a wheel to have a spoke replaced.
Next day I showed up for my wheel, quickly had it on the bike and out for a ride. Midway through the ride I was hearing a loud noise, like something was coming off. Well the cassette had come loose... :crap: So I realised that if I have to go home and double check all the work the LBS does on my bike, then I should do it myself...and that's what I do now.

EPOJoe
10-17-2004, 09:10 PM
Hey EPAJoe, maybe if we pooled our resources we could buy enough beer to get terry out here from southeastern Mass.

DTS; It would probably be cheaper to buy a new bike than to spring for that much beer :beer: but maybe you could get this guy to drive out:
http://www.bikeshop2u.com/
I read about this in the Bee a few weeks ago, but I haven't tried him, so I have no idea if he knows his stuff. Maybe you can call and run a few questions by him, like "are the bearings in a 2001 Record bottom bracket replaceable?" and "Should the thicker cables go to brakes or derailleurs?"
If he can answer the questions, there's a chance he may know what he's doing :).
I've been to Steve Rex's shop, but I never thought to ask if they did walk in wrenching. Next time I'm downtown, I'll drop in and have a talk with them about it.

Buddha
10-17-2004, 10:40 PM
What kind of stands are they using? I clamp by the seat tube all the time, 20 yrs later no damage. I do have a Cinelli stand, not a park. I won't use a Park stand, no control.

Remember the repair stand is to hold the bike in the air, not as extra long lever for your wrench. All forces put in one direction should be countered in the other direction with your body. Proper tool technique is lost.

And yes, many shop rats don't know anything.

Attila175
10-19-2004, 03:06 PM
If you look at both Park's and Pedro's catalogs about their workstands, you will see that they make a point of how big of a tube their's can clamp. Since seat posts dont come in 3" diamaters, part of the blame must be place on with the tool companies for implying that clamping the tubes is OK.

vandeda
10-19-2004, 09:46 PM
If you look at both Park's and Pedro's catalogs about their workstands, you will see that they make a point of how big of a tube their's can clamp. Since seat posts dont come in 3" diamaters, part of the blame must be place on with the tool companies for implying that clamping the tubes is OK.

I disagree ... so it can fit tubes up to 3" in diameter ... someone working in a bike shop, who you would suppose has *some* experience working on bikes, should know better. If they don't, they're incompetent and shouldn't be working on an expensive, high-end bike that they can cause big $$$ worth of damage due to their ignorance.

I hate to sound negative, but we gotta take responsibility for our own actions, and not because Park says that their stand will work with tubes up to 3", which suddenly implies it's OK to clamp to any tube you'd like. If a bike shop worker damages a bike, it's his fault ... if he didn't have adequate training, then shame on the person who should have trained him. When we start blaming the manufacturers for our shortcomings, we wind up with frivolous lawsuits and warning labels like these: http://www.dumbwarnings.com/warnings.php?site=warnings

Dan

Attila175
10-20-2004, 02:08 AM
I disagree ... so it can fit tubes up to 3" in diameter ... someone working in a bike shop, who you would suppose has *some* experience working on bikes, should know better. If they don't, they're incompetent and shouldn't be working on an expensive, high-end bike that they can cause big $$$ worth of damage due to their ignorance.

I hate to sound negative, but we gotta take responsibility for our own actions, and not because Park says that their stand will work with tubes up to 3", which suddenly implies it's OK to clamp to any tube you'd like. If a bike shop worker damages a bike, it's his fault ... if he didn't have adequate training, then shame on the person who should have trained him. When we start blaming the manufacturers for our shortcomings, we wind up with frivolous lawsuits and warning labels like these: http://www.dumbwarnings.com/warnings.php?site=warnings

Dan

Do I think the companies should be held accountable? NO. Would I like to see them stop clamping tubes in their catalogs, YES.

There are few decent shops near me. About an hour from me is a college town with a few decent shops, but most of the mechs at one shop are college kids. While most of the stuff they work on will be mid-lower end, I still dont feel comfortable taking a bike to them. I have to travel at least an hour and a half to get to shops that I feel comfortable with.

vaxn8r
10-20-2004, 04:30 PM
First of all, consider who is working on your bike. Is it a long time employee of the shop or a 17 year old with his first job? You have a right to ask "who will be working on my bike?"

You OUGHT to check your bike, not just when you get home from the shop, but also before any and every ride. Whose responsible? You are. A pilot checks his plane before every flight. We aought to check our bikes before every ride.

Some of you guys act like victims. Bike shops are not the big evil out there. If bike shops go down guess what? Our sport goes down with it. That's right, the internet shops are ONLY in business because of the shops that actually let you ride stuff, try stuff on , have stuff built up on the floor, bail you out when you break a spoke or rear deraileur. If the shops dry up, the trade shows dry up and so does the internet business. Honestly, we're being penny wise and pound foolish by doing the "end-around". I've heard people proudly say they to go try a pair of shoes on in a shop and then go order them from Nashbar. Or go for a test ride at the local shop and then order from Comp Cyclist or Colorado. That's great for you in the short run. But why in the world should the shop owner treat you with one grain of respect when you then bring in your bike to be fixed? What happens when he can't afford to stock Sidi's or carry Serotta or Calfee or whatever? We are all hurt by that.

Are all shop owners ethical? No. Obviously. Are they getting wealthy scamming people every day? Certainly not. Do they get tired of people expecting PERFECTION and nickle and diming them when they break some ultra-light "bike candy" they shouldn't have been riding anyway? Yeah, it does get old.

Folks, lets have some thoughtful replies here and quit piling on.

I'll stop now. Yeah, I feel much better....self righteously said :cool:

dts
10-21-2004, 01:14 AM
Vaxn8r, I agree with you about the importance of the LBS, and I don't read any of the posts on this thread as questioning anyone's ethics. I'm just shocked at the laziness and incompetence of shop staff I've encountered recently, after years of great service from mechanics who have left. What I see as common here is that many have tried to patronize local bike shops but have lost trust in their mechanics for good reason.

Of course there are some great ones out there, as several posts reflect. Just not here, and apparently not in a lot of other places, either.

I'll continue to spends hundreds of dollars every year in Davis bike shops on kids' bikes and gloves and jerseys and tubes and tires. But it strikes me as foolish to pay a third or more extra for cranksets and the like at a shops I no longer trust to install them. Why do that?

Serotta PETE
10-21-2004, 08:08 AM
I disagree ... so it can fit tubes up to 3" in diameter ... someone working in a bike shop, who you would suppose has *some* experience working on bikes, should know better. If they don't, they're incompetent and shouldn't be working on an expensive, high-end bike that they can cause big $$$ worth of damage due to their ignorance.

I hate to sound negative, but we gotta take responsibility for our own actions, and not because Park says that their stand will work with tubes up to 3", which suddenly implies it's OK to clamp to any tube you'd like. If a bike shop worker damages a bike, it's his fault ... if he didn't have adequate training, then shame on the person who should have trained him. When we start blaming the manufacturers for our shortcomings, we wind up with frivolous lawsuits and warning labels like these: http://www.dumbwarnings.com/warnings.php?site=warnings

Dan

You are right on>>>>That would be like sayin that since there is a path to top of the mountain and I fall off, then it must be partially the fault of the person who built path!!!!.

WE must take responsibility for out actions. Park nor anyone else told us to put our bike into the "vice".

Sorry, this is one of my "sensitive" spots. :butt:

Dekonick
10-21-2004, 11:15 AM
I am still asking: is it ok to put your frame/bike in your workstand by the top tube if you wrap the tube in cloth first, and barely clamp it? (I am just talking about cleaning the drivetrain, minor cable adjustments, etc... no wrenching (no torque)

My stand has a wide clamp (PRS-5) and I dont have that much seat post showing (carbon post)

I always thought it was better to NOT clamp a carbon post, and that to keep changing the carbon post out for an aluminum one could be just as bad. Every time you change the carbon post out, your release pressure on it, then when you place it back it again gets 'new' pressure. It would seem to me that this would potentially end the life of your post, or weaken it. I would assume that the Ti and steel frames I own would be just fine being held with 'light' clamp pressure (just enough to hold the bike and let you turn it around in the stand)

Am I wrong? If I am I guess its time to buy a Ti or Al post and not use carbon anymore. Not a problem with the compact geo's.

Kevan
10-21-2004, 12:23 PM
a CF post takes with an adult male's butt perched on top, hitting pot holes and such, the pressure your stand's clapping performs is near nothing. Well, assuming your clamping pressure is well within reason. I repeat myself: I clamp my USE Alien w/o a problem.


Sure, if you really want to clamp a frame by the top tube, you can. Certainly a soft towel would be advisable, but considering you'll be turning your crank to clean/apply oil I would expect the frame to swivel (or try to) a bit within the jaws. This isn't rocketry... just use common sense and be careful.