48cm frame (650c or 700c) and 50mm rake question

[DukeHorn]

So I talked to a builder about getting a steel frame and fork made for me. I currently have a 95 Merlin Ti with 650c tires and a 2005 Giant OCR with 700c tires. I'll be replacing the Giant with this steel frame (mainly for aesthetics, since I will be passing the Giant (which is a decent ride) along to my sis). I'll be using this bike for longer hilly rides here in the Bay Area.

To make it more of a long distance comfort bike, we discussed having a slack HTA of 71.5 with a fork rake of 50mm. Since my size is sort of an intermediary point between 650c and 700c, I'm sort of leaning towards the 700c (and the rake of 50mm will help with any toe overlap issues). Anyone see anything wrong with the logic or any implications towards the handling?

Also, as part of the equation, I can have a steel fork made for free or pay extra for a carbon fork (think Reynolds comes to mind with a 50mm rake). Since both my bikes have 43mm carbon forks, I'm not quite sure how a steel fork will feel (and whether I should be a weight weenie) about it. I guess since it's part of the package, I should try a steel fork first (or am I just asking for some discomfort).

Oh I weigh around 145 lbs, any thoughts on carbon chainstays or seatstays?

[nicrump]

seriously, trust the builder or find one you can trust.

So I talked to a builder about getting a steel frame and fork made for me. I currently have a 95 Merlin Ti with 650c tires and a 2005 Giant OCR with 700c tires. I'll be replacing the Giant with this steel frame (mainly for aesthetics, since I will be passing the Giant (which is a decent ride) along to my sis). I'll be using this bike for longer hilly rides here in the Bay Area.

To make it more of a long distance comfort bike, we discussed having a slack HTA of 71.5 with a fork rake of 50mm. Since my size is sort of an intermediary point between 650c and 700c, I'm sort of leaning towards the 700c (and the rake of 50mm will help with any toe overlap issues). Anyone see anything wrong with the logic or any implications towards the handling?

Also, as part of the equation, I can have a steel fork made for free or pay extra for a carbon fork (think Reynolds comes to mind with a 50mm rake). Since both my bikes have 43mm carbon forks, I'm not quite sure how a steel fork will feel (and whether I should be a weight weenie) about it. I guess since it's part of the package, I should try a steel fork first (or am I just asking for some discomfort).

Oh I weigh around 145 lbs, any thoughts on carbon chainstays or seatstays?

[thejen12]

PM sent!

I recently had two Steve Rex bikes built with a similar geometry, it works great for me! Also, I opted for carbon fork and seat stays on the first bike, and all steel on the second bike. The ride is practically indistiguisheable between the two.

Jenn

[chuckred]

My steel bike with steel fork is certainly NOT uncomfortable... very comfortable and smooth.

[thejen12]

I just remembered that Steve Rex lead me to believe that a steel fork and a carbon fork were not interchangeable. I can certainly understand how a custom bike designed to mate with a custom steel fork might not be able to be retrofitted with a stock carbon fork due to angles and lengths and rakes not matching, but I don't understand why a custom bike built for a stock carbon fork could not be retrofitted with a custom steel fork (and maybe it can).

Jenn

[DukeHorn]

I trust the builder, but I don't trust my own judgement on matters (especially since I've never ridden a steel fork or tried out a steel frame with carbon chainstays).

Thank goodness Jenn seems to have tested out some of these options on her two custom Rexs :).

[thejen12]

If you want to come by and test ride them sometime, let me know. I know the top tube will be too short for you, but we have some rough patches on our street so you could check out the road feel between the two.

Jenn

[goonster]

I trust the builder, but I don't trust my own judgement on matters (especially since I've never ridden a steel fork or tried out a steel frame with carbon chainstays).

I can't speak for him, but I think Nick was referring to your discussing specific seat tube angles and fork rakes with the builder. I would tell the builder how I intend to use the bike, and how I would like it to perform, and leave the frame design up to them. That goes double for a frame, such as this, that is somewhat on the end of the size bell curve.

Also, I would opt for the smaller wheels, since that would reduce a major constraint from the design equation, imho.

Are you being measured in person? What length top tube do you usually ride?

[thejen12]

I trust the builder, but I don't trust my own judgement on matters (especially since I've never ridden a steel fork or tried out a steel frame with carbon chainstays).

Thank goodness Jenn seems to have tested out some of these options on her two custom Rexs :).
Yes, I went through similar angst deciding on which bits to use carbon on. What settled it for me was that I thought I would always wonder "what if" if I didn't try it. I knew the steel ride wouldn't be as buttery-soft as my ti bike, and I didn't want to wind up kicking myself later, thinking it might have been a softer ride if I'd had a carbon fork or carbon seat-stays. (As it turns out, I don't think they made a big difference, but I'm the kind of person who likes to try it to find out for myself.)

At first, I really missed the ride of my (ill-fitting) ti bike, but I got used to the steel very quickly and don't miss the ti now.

FYI, I ride Conti 4000 700/25 tires at about 85 lbs. pressure, so this adds to the ride comfort on my steel steeds.

Jenn

[Darrell]

that is why you are having this intercourse with them.
The builder's interpretation for you, of themselves and thus the bike for you.

[RPS]

To make it more of a long distance comfort bike, we discussed having a slack HTA of 71.5 with a fork rake of 50mm. Since my size is sort of an intermediary point between 650c and 700c, I'm sort of leaning towards the 700c (and the rake of 50mm will help with any toe overlap issues). Anyone see anything wrong with the logic or any implications towards the handling?I'm sure you are already aware that the 50 MM fork rake probably only applies to the 700C wheels. If you decide to go with 650C the fork rake will likely be much less, and you will likely have fewer choices when it comes to carbon forks.

IMO larger 700C tires roll incrementally better over rougher roads, but I wouldn't make the 650 vs. 700 decision based solely on that.

[maunahaole]

If you aren't committed to the builder yet, by all means take the drive up to Sac and talk to Steve Rex. He knows his stuff and his bikes are gorgeous. Steve is a nice guy to boot. Have some lunch at one of the restaurants near his shop, there's good grub nearby.

[Brian Smith]

that is why you are having this intercourse with them.
The builder's interpretation for you, of themselves and thus the bike for you.

http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/460bea1a-9941-4599-843c-c6c377ccc57a.jpg

Have the intercourse!

[Tobias]

So I talked to a builder about getting a steel frame and fork made for me. I currently have a 95 Merlin Ti with 650c tires and a 2005 Giant OCR with 700c tires. I'll be replacing the Giant with this steel frame (mainly for aesthetics, since I will be passing the Giant (which is a decent ride) along to my sis). I'll be using this bike for longer hilly rides here in the Bay Area.On small frames below 50 CM I prefer the more-balanced aesthetics of a 650C bike. Small bikes with 700C wheels normally look too crowded to me; some would say out of proportion.

Since you are getting rid of your 700C bike and keeping the Merlin with 650C wheels in part because of “aesthetics”, you should ask yourself what it is that you like better about the Merlin. Is it the looks, the ride, the function?

There’s no doubt 650C bikes are harder to find parts for (mainly tires, tubes, wheels, and to a lesser degree forks) and have a few minor disadvantages compared to the standard 700C, but in your case it’s a little different. Since you are keeping the Merlin, another 650C won’t be that much more of an issue, and in some ways better because of common parts. Personally I’d lean towards the 650C for a 48 CM size, especially in your case.

BTW, do you have pictures of your two bikes you can post?