Waterford RS11 vs. CSi

[Ken Robb]

I thought I was getting very close to having to finalize the specs of a custom bike ordered a year ago. Our stable has several road bikes inclding a stock geometry CSi and a couple of Rivendells. I bought a 2000 RS11 in 61x58.5 size with the original steel fork in a box and a Profile Design AC1 all carbon installed, and 105 triple group w/32 hole Open Pros. I was looking forward to being able to try steel and carbon forks on the SAME bike. I've had both kinds but never on the same bike for a real comparison.
OK, inquiring iinds want to know so it's 21.5 lbs ready to ride with Brooks B-17 saddle, pedals, cages, etc.
The tubing is at least partly Reynolds 531.
Chainstays ar 43cm. in the middle of horizontal drops.
The ride is VERY smooth; smoother than my 62cm Rambouillet with the same tires and wheels. I wouldn't have bet on that.
The handling is slightly quicker tha Rambo but not quite as quick as the CSi.
All 3 are easy to ride no-hands and don't shimmy descending at 45+ mph. I have had several other "good" bikes that did shimmy under me when they were fine for other riders so this is a tougher test than you might think.
The 11 series Waterfords were lugged steel like the still-made 2200 series made of 853 tubing. In 2000 I think Waterford claimed about a 1/2 pound difference in 11 vs. 22 frames and they now have a 3300 series ultralight and another cheaper steel frame which are both tig-welded. I guess, like Serotta and the Atlanta, they found it too expensive to build cheaper lugged bikes.
Well, the bottom line is that I'm enjoying this RS11 a lot. The custom bike that I expected to get in 2-3 months when I ordered it last Oct. was projected to be done around this November last May, and then I was just told it would be at least 8-9 more months from now so I cancelled the order.
Hmmm, Clll? Kirk? Waterford? Calfee? The list of possibilities is as long as this post. Interestingly in recent correspondence w/ Richard Schwinn at Waterford I got the impression that they can make me a new bike that will be a bit lighter but it won't be much "better" riding than what I have.
Our pal Dr. Brooks has had a couple of Waterfords and if I remember correctly stated that he preferred his 12 series (made of no-longer available 753) over his 22 series of 853. He found the 853 a bit harsh.
I rode a Couer d'Acier recently and it was harsher than I like.
Let's hear what you all have to say about these musings.

[eddief]

That RS11 sounds like a nice bike. How about a photo?

Eddie

[Ken Robb]

I think you can still find it on eBay as a completed Waterford sale.

[vaxn8r]

Kenn,

A buddy of mine has a Waterford with 753(? 7 something) and then purchased a Waterford 853. His impression was the same as DBRK's. The 853 was too stiff and not a comfortable ride for him. He sold the 853 and still has his first one.

I've talked to somebody else, whose opinion I value, he rides a cross Lemond made with 853 in the main triangle and 531(I think) rear triangle and he likes it a lot more than his last bike that was all 853...which he also said was too uncomfortable. He said the 853/531 bike was just right.

[Smiley]

Most master frame builders won't use 853 cause its not as tunable as the better Reynolds series tubes notably the 531 and 753 of old . I believe that 531 gave way to 525 and the new 7 series is 725 . Anyhow , 853 is not that great an alloy to build bikes from. The new Nobium that columbus has i hear great things about it .

[dbrk]

It's my understanding that the newer Waterfords in the 2XXX series are not made exclusively of 853 but rather of a mix that includes 853. My RST-22 is a nice enough ride and I would sing its praises more effusively were I not so darn disappointed with the quality of the paint. It strikes me as thin, easily chipped, and poorly applied. I could have had it repainted upon receiving the bike but I was resigned to the simple fact that I believe Waterford can do no better. Mine has the handsome stainless steel HJ lugs and the two-tone paint job of grey and black that's on the Anniversary frame. It hangs largely unridden, I am sad to say, mostly because I am disappointed in the paint and can't bring myself to selling it for a song. Go figure. I had an RS-11 once, white with red/silver decals. The paint was simpler and I suppose I had not so many from JB to which to compare but I was far happier. My 1250 is on permanent loan to a local yoga pal who can rides it with great joy.

dbrk

[dirtdigger88]

my lemond is 853- I would never call that bike overly stiff? I like it a lot. It "wiggles" way more than my Legend does but that is no suprise. I have not ridden all that many steel bike but I would not want one any less stiff than my lemond.

Jason

[Ken Robb]

I too had a Lemond Zurich of 853 w/ Icon carbon fork and it was a high speed wobbler under my 210 lbs. I think the fork was the reason--too flexy for me.