Blazzing Saddles and Nutrition

[mikki]

OK. So I did my long ride this weekend in probably the hottest weekend we've had this year . In doing so, the paint on my new Selle San Marco saddle smeared. Has anyone had a similar problem? This is only the second time I've ridden it and I like the feel alot better than my Fizik, but am annoyed that the markings on one side of the saddle now look awful.

Also,am wondering about nutrition on a back-to-back century. This distance is something new to me and usually I eat a very tiny breakfast; making sure I drink a soy protein prior to a long ride and then fuel correctly on the bike and recover with whey protein (Hammer products). Since I was doing a longer ride and with some friends who eat a pretty good sized breakfast, I tried eating the following: 2 scrambled eggs, banana, very small danish and coffee. I felt like an elephant on my bike. Then when everyone stopped at about the 50 mile mark to rest, they again ate. I felt full from breakfast, but they convinced me to at least eat a cliff bar. Was that necessary? How long does a meal stay usable for continuous activity? I can't seem to find that answer...and I did get VERY fatigued at the end of the ride but don't know if it was a nutritional problem or the 105 degree heat that caused it. (yes, I drank copious amounts of water)

Would appreciate comments.

[Birddog]

You didn't give us enough information. Did you only drink water for instance, or did you have something like Accelerade or Gatorade?

I did back to back centuries this weekend. High Temps were about 90 both days. Breakfast both days was one bagel w/cream cheese and one 8 oz glass Orange juice. I drank three bottles of Accelerade/Gatorade mix (50/50), one bottle water and two bottles of Powerade (240 Cal I think) from convenience stores on the rides. My mixture is about 175 calories per 24 oz bottle. Yesterday I ate 9 fig newtons (about 500 calories ) and a Nature Valley Granola bar (160 cal). Today I had a Cinnamon scone and three cups of sweetened coffee (calories unknown). Both came about 2/3rds way through the ride. Post ride I had 16oz of Endurox for recovery followed by a brat sandwich and some pasta salad (both days).

I can't start a ride with anything too heavy, and certainly no liquid dairy. If I don't have bagel, I'll have a couple of eggs and toast. You have to find out what you can tolerate and how much you need, mostly it's trial and error. The old rules "eat before you're hungry and drink before you're thirsty" apply.

I find that recovery is the most important aspect, but you must avoid the "bonk" too. IIRC, you should be eating about 1,000 to 1,200 calories on a century ride. Thats about five Cliff bars. Products like Accelerade that have some protein and carbs included allow me to cut down on the number of Cliff bars and GU's(100 cal) nec to stay sustained, YMMV. A quick calculation shows me that yesterday I consumed approx. 1,425 calories on the ride. The Powerade calories are of the "cheap" variety however since it is mostly just from sweetener.

Birddog

[mikki]

Hi Birddog,

The answer to the water question was mainly plain water. One bottle each direction had added "Perpetuem". The rest of the bottles were plain water. Hmmm..perhaps more and/or Gatorade liquid would have been useful.

[TAW]

First off, congrats on the double century. While everyone is surely different, I find that eating something big at the start of a ride hasn't worked well for me. I'm better off eating smaller, regular stuff befoe and during the ride, and I don't drink anything but water because my stomach reacts badly to gatorade on longer or harder rides.

As far as the saddle goes, was the paint rubbed off from the heat or from the wear of your shorts while pedaling?

[mikki]

First off, congrats on the double century. While everyone is surely different, I find that eating something big at the start of a ride hasn't worked well for me. I'm better off eating smaller, regular stuff befoe and during the ride, and I don't drink anything but water because my stomach reacts badly to gatorade on longer or harder rides.

As far as the saddle goes, was the paint rubbed off from the heat or from the wear of your shorts while pedaling?

Hey TAW,

I wondered if the Gatorade has too much sugar in it that might contribute to a "crash" of sorts..also the coffee. For shorter rides, an iced coffee helps me, but perhaps for a long ride it does not.

As far as the saddle, I am not positive, but think it might be from my shorts rubbing on it. But gees...the nice graphics and logos shouldn't wear off on the second ride! (Over $150 saddle). Very irritating. I did learn though, that I perfer a performance saddle to the more cushy ones my friends (and me in the past) use. Just wish this wouldn't have happened. I like my bike to look good and this looks stupid.

[Ginger]

mikki,

As you use Hammer nutrition products, you're probably on their endurancelist on Yahoo? That might be the best place to ask about your fueling if you haven't already (I haven't had time to read the digest lately, I apologize if you already posted over there)

The Hammer folks have some really good information on endurance fueling with their products both in their web site and in their newsletters.

http://www.hammernutrition.com/za/HNT?PAGE=COMMUNITY

It sounds like perhaps you had too many calories/the wrong type of calorie or too much water (they're finding that to be a real issue, too much water without appropriate electrolytes)

Mixing Perpetum and a simple sugar like Gatorade (or even fruit sometimes) can cause some gastric distress and that's not fun on a long ride. Taking some Hammer Gel along might be more to the point for the quick energy when you feel you need it. It doesn't cause the same response. Did you also take endurolites?

When I do two centuries in two days, if I have breakfast at all before the start, if it's more than two hours before the start, I have something light perhaps a bowl of cereal with a banana and milk, or scrambled eggs and a glass of milk. Then I'll mix a 2 scoop bottle of perpetum that I supplement with water. I also carry another 2 scoops of perpetum dry because the protein sort of gets skanky on a hot day's ride and I like to mix a a fresh bottle after lunch. I don't start drinking the perpetum until I'm a good half hour into the ride depending on when I ate last.
I bring real food snacks that won't argue with the perpetum (no simple sugars, things like nuts and jerkey) and I do eat real food lunch but I'm careful to wait a good while after any food before I start drinking the perpetum again.
I supplement with minimal endurolites and hammer gel.
Fairly big dinner.
Then repeat the next day.

Oh hey, you learned something new: stick with the nutrition you know works! Experimenting with other people's nutrition plans on a long ride is usually a bad idea.

That sucks about the saddle.

Good luck on finding your proper fueling and congratulations on your back to back centuries!

[regularguy412]

Lots of good advice already mentioned here, including energy drinks with too high concentrations of carb (sugar). Too much at one time and it seems to just sit in your stomach and not get absorbed very quickly. I, too, prefer a light meal in the morning with no greasy food or milk sugar. I usually get some fig bars and put them down about an hour before riding,, along with some kind of juice like apple or grape (not orange juice).

I also make sure that my Cytomax is mixed at about half strength. That's one scoop per large water bottle (24 oz.). Any stronger than that and it seems to get really overly sweet-tasting when it's really hot outside. I think you're on the right track with replacing the lost minerals while riding.

Another thing that is lost when riding hard in the heat and sweating a lot is iron. Be sure to get some kind of iron-bearing food at night to help replace what you lose on the road. You might not notice it after only one day, but you will after a few days without replenishment.

And another congrats! on the double.

Mike in AR:beer:

[fiamme red]

I also carry another 2 scoops of perpetum dry because the protein sort of gets skanky on a hot day's ride and I like to mix a a fresh bottle after lunch. I don't start drinking the perpetum until I'm a good half hour into the ride depending on when I ate last.I use Sustained Energy, and it's quite tolerable when mixed with cold water. Once the water warms up in the hot sun, it tastes disgusting.

And always clean your bottles thoroughly immediately after the ride if you use S.E. or Perpeturm. If there's any residue left in a bottle for a few days, the stench will be so foul that you'll have to throw it out.

[mikki]

Ginger:

Do you also have no breakfast sometimes? I often (on much shorter rides) have just a soy smoothie and feel light and in touch with my body. Since I didn't have the experience of this a ride of this lenth, I was open to trying someone elses' nutritional guidance. My body clearly didn't respond like I'd hoped. I'm not sore at all but suffered pretty badly for the last 40 miles or so.

Good Hammer link..I didn't know about it.

[Ginger]

Ginger:

Do you also have no breakfast sometimes? I often (on much shorter rides) have just a soy smoothie and feel light and in touch with my body. Since I didn't have the experience of this a ride of this lenth, I was open to trying someone elses' nutritional guidance. My body clearly didn't respond like I'd hoped. I'm not sore at all but suffered pretty badly for the last 40 miles or so.

Good Hammer link..I didn't know about it.

The perpetum is great stuff for preventing soreness. Once I started using it as fuel, I stopped being sore after rides. And, it's gluten free! (I think all of their products are gluten free, which I can't say for other endurance nutrition)

Yes. If I wake up and get on the road, I won't bother with breakfast and I'll start the perpetum after 15 minutes on the road. But I make sure I eat well the day or so before. On the other hand, if I'm with a group who I'm staying with all day, I will generally modify my food intake to the correct timing...but I certainly don't try to eat as much as they do. In general, they're bigger than me and take in more calories overall.

If you're using Hammer nutrition products, sign up for their newsletter or read back issues online (Greener I suppose). Lots of good information about exactly what you're asking.

It takes a few rides of that sort to really sort out what works for you and what doesn't. And once you get that figured out, stick to your guns and remain stubborn.

I'm a bit of a poor example because, due to my gluten issue, I carry all the food I might need for the day with me on a ride. So I don't use the rest stops like some people do. It really isn't that bulky.

[Peter B]

What works in cooler weather may not work so well in the heat. Fueling needs also vary with effort/intensity. There's lots of sound nutritional guidelines out there but you need to practice your fueling strategy to really find what works for you. I'll offer a few suggestions based on my experience.

Personally, I like long, hard rides. I've found that a mostly liquid diet works well for me for these efforts. For example, Saturday was 140 miles and 13,800' of climbing in 8:45 total. For breakfast I had 2 Ensure Plus and a large cup of strong coffee 30 minutes before the start, along with about 20 ounces of water. I'd mixed a bottle of Perpetuem using six scoops and a couple ounces of gel (good for about 800 calories). I carried a 5 oz gel flask and four bars. I used about half the gel and ate two of the bars. I supplemented this with 4 or 5 bananas, 1/4 PB&J sandwich and a candybar. I also had a can of V8 about halfway through. I primarily use Succeed for electrolyte replacement, consuming about one per hour as the temps rise.

Once riding, I typically start fueling after about 60 minutes. I try to keep a steady energy level by eating about 200-300 calories an hour (depending on intensity), usually split across 15-20 minute intervals, followed by a few sips of water.

For reference, I weigh ~150 lbs. High temp on this ride was about 101* and I finished feeling good.

If I'm out for shorter or less arduous rides I'll often get by on a few energy bars or bananas, a few ounces of gel and a much lighter blend of Perpetuem. On these rides I'll typically have some kind of museli or granola w/ fruit for breakfast. My recovery drink is frequently a fruit smoothie with yogurt and some protein powder, although lately I've been experimenting more with Hammer's Recoverite.

But to come full circle, experimentation is the key. You need to find what your body tolerates under varying conditions of heat, effort and duration. I second Ginger's suggestion to listen the the Hammer folks. You also might try the Ultra Marathon Cycling Association website (http://www.ultracycling.com/). In my experience, the key is to maintain a consistent level of energy and hydration in keeping with the intensity and duration of the ride. Also, with back to back distance riding, don't neglect the importance of stretching and adequate rest.

Good luck discovering what works for you and remember to look around as you ride, smile, and be grateful for your health!

Peter

[mikki]

....Good luck discovering what works for you and remember to look around as you ride, smile, and be grateful for your health!

Peter

Peter, although you are light years ahead of me in terms of distance and difficulty in your cycling per day, it seems as though we might have a similar system at least in the fueling before and during the ride. I have a sample of "Recoverite" in the various samples that Hammer sent me in my last order so will try it.

I actually did smile alot during the ride. We rode along the coast for much of the way down and back so the scenery was unbeatable, hooked up with some beautiful male & female riders from Redondo Beach who were riding the same route for quite some time (were delightful people) and we were able to sit on the beach and watch the colorful sunset after dinner. Doesn't get much better, does it?! (Well, some awesome red wine would have made it perfect but I was a good girl and didn't have any.)

Thanks for the reminder. Life is good.

Post Script: I am on the links mentioned above and am fascinated with all of the information about fueling!! VERY VALUABLE INPUT.