Rattle Can

[Lifelover]

Anyone here with little to no painting experience ever done a rattle can paint job on a frame?

I have a lugged Curtlo that I love but it started to show signs of rust under the paint. I have already started the strip/sand process but am torn on the painting.

My current funds are tight and I have less than $200 (great deal from a forum member) in the frame. This tempts me to have my wife and/or myself attempt a rattle can job.

Is there any chance it will turn out decent?

Is there a high quality automotive paint available in spray cans?

What grit should the final sanding be?

What should I prime it with?

If I want to to try panels, is there a secret to taping?

Should I use a clear coat?

Would it be wrong to put R. Sachs stickers on it?

Any advise would be appreciated.

[Louis]

Have you considered a local powder-coat job? I've heard that they are very inexpensive (<$50).

[weaponsgrade]

I did a lot of research into this once and what I walked away with was this. You'll probably spend a lot more money and time than you think and the results won't be half as good or durable as a powder. The cheapest place I found in my area for a powder was $125 including sandblasting.

[johnnymossville]

using rattle cans. (krylon worked really well) Here's what I did and the results looked great. Most people would think they were done by a pro. One drawback I found: Though they look beautiful, they aren't very durable. I never tried clearcoat so I can't help you there.

1. Strip the frame down to bare metal. I used paint stripper.
2. Prime, a couple thin coats, just try to keep it even and fully covered. I would wipe down the primered finish after it was done with clean cloth, since I found there'd be dried overspray, I doubt paint would stick well to that.
3. Paint, again thin coats, let almost dry between coats. 2 or 3 should be enough.
4. I wet sanded the paint job after it was totally dry. A day or two is enough.
5. Polishing Compound the frame to smooth things out.
6. Wax to a high shine after the paint is VERY dry.

Now, before you take my advice. This stuff is what "I" did. I'm sure there are better ways out there. I never read any books or got advice from pros. It was just trial and error, and the results looked great.

I used to paint my race bike between races one year and guys thought I was some rich guy with a dozen bikes. I got a lot of practice and got to do some fun stuff with my bike. fades/etc,... I was/am cheap, so I used stick on lettering from the art store for the downtube with some pretty good results.

Good Luck, and have fun. Don't worry about mistakes, you can always start over. :)

[musgravecycles]

pm this cat (forum member: jhcakilmer), he did one that turned out pretty nice.

http://serotta.com/forum/member.php?u=6458

[stuckey]

I do auto body work for a living... If you are going to prime it you can sand it with 180 or 220. Sand your primer with 400 or 500 dry or 600 if you wet sand. As for primers you can get decent stuff at Auto body supply stores. For the top coat they can Mix normal auto paint in rattle cans for you. It will be single stage so there will be no reason to clear it. I would say yes you can get a decent paint job out of rattle cans. Use the advice someone gave above and use a few light to medium coats.

[johnnymossville]

I do auto body work for a living... If you are going to prime it you can sand it with 180 or 220. Sand your primer with 400 or 500 dry or 600 if you wet sand. As for primers you can get decent stuff at Auto body supply stores. For the top coat they can Mix normal auto paint in rattle cans for you. It will be single stage so there will be no reason to clear it. I would say yes you can get a decent paint job out of rattle cans. Use the advice someone gave above and use a few light to medium coats.


Ahhh, not to hijack the thread, but thank you for the sanding tips Stuckey. Those are parts my mind was foggy on, it's been awhile.

John

[BumbleBeeDave]

I did a lot of research into this once and what I walked away with was this. You'll probably spend a lot more money and time than you think and the results won't be half as good or durable as a powder. The cheapest place I found in my area for a powder was $125 including sandblasting.

. . . echoes mine. I had a local place sandblast my Fisher Hoo-Koo-E-Koo frame down to bare metal, then I painted it in my basement with yellow I had mixed at the local auto paint place to match the Competition Yellow on my Serotta. I rigged a wire hanger from my basement ceiling and hung it in a corner with newspaper covering everything for ten feet around.

The primer went on fine, but was very hard to get an even paint job with the yellow without any runs. The paint would go on fine and look great, but then get a run as it, uh, coagulated I guess you would say. It also took a hell of a long time to dry properly.

Once the yellow was on, I put on decals I had made from a place I found online--Victory Circle Graphics--then put the clear coat on. The whole thing ended up looking nice for about one season. Now it still looks good, but somebody else said it's not very durable and they're right. It gets scratched way too easily, which is not good on a mountain bike. Plus it's a steel frame and rust will get in there. Plus I apparently didn't let the clear coat dry long enough--only a couple of weeks. It's started to crackle all over.

It came out great in the short term, but if I were doing it now I'd definitely have the local clear coat place do the base yellow and the final poly clear coat after I put the decals on. That has worked way better on the cross bike I built up.

Here's a link to the MTB pics:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=11701

Here's the cross bike pics:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=28239

It came out way better. Frame was already powder coated black when I got it. Then I put the red on with rattle can and the decals and had the local shop clear coat it.

At least check the local paint shops to see what they would charge for a base coat and the clear coat. It will save you a LOT of time and grief!

BBD

[batman1425]

I did a rattle can job on my fixie/ss commuter bike this past winter. It's an early 80's steel nishiki. I had it sandblasted at a local place. They were a little more agressive than I would have liked and ended up giving the whole bike a textured finish. Not ideal, but it hides any scratches very well!

All the paints I used were Duplicolor spray enamel paints. First (after cleaning the whole frame with acetone to remove any oil) went down a self etching primer. The acid in the primer helps it bind to the surface of the steel better and makes the final product a bit more durable. Whole can of primer applied in light coats.

I then applied color, white on the lugs and hub half of the chain and seat stays, and blue everywhere else. I let this dry overnight. The next day some 600grit wet sanding, a quick wash, dry and then I applied a whole can of clearcoat in many light coats over the whole frame. After the clear dried for about a week, I ran a gold line with a paint pen around the lugs to finish it off.

Now here's what I feel is the most important step. I hung it in my basement for 4 months before I built it up. The spray can stuff takes a long time to cure totally. The longer you let it set before messing with it, the more durable it will be. You can speed up the cure time by letting it bake in the sun for a week or two, or storing it in your shed during the summer for a month or so.

The paint isn't as durable as factory, but it's held up much better than I thought it would.

You can find some pics here:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=116041&highlight=nishiki+single+speed

[stormyClouds]

I have one more vote for finding a local powdercoat biz.
I had a Waltworks steel MTB frame that really needed some TLC.
For under $100 I had it media blasted and powdercoated. They did the fork at the same time. They did a great job and it is super durable to boot.
By the time you figure in the cost of the rattle cans, time spent, and durability, pc is definitely worth considering, if you ask me.

[bhungerford]

i second the long cure time on the Duplicolor stuff. Turns out pretty well, and lots of colors to choose from at all the chain auto stores, easy to use also, for a rattle can it has a decent fan pattern spray.

But, be sure to let it cure properlly, really take your time with it. i rushed it a bit and have a few chips. I painted an old steel bike, and an aluminum Trek, and both turned out pretty well.

That being said, if you have the cash (which i know you don't want to spend it) the best bet is to have it professionally done, or powder coated.

It was fun sanding it down, masking it off, and painting it though :beer:

[Fixed]

I have one more vote for finding a local powdercoat biz.
I had a Waltworks steel MTB frame that really needed some TLC.
For under $100 I had it media blasted and powdercoated. They did the fork at the same time. They did a great job and it is super durable to boot.
By the time you figure in the cost of the rattle cans, time spent, and durability, pc is definitely worth considering, if you ask me.
+1 imho

[Lifelover]

My plan is to persue the powder coat/auto painter route in parallel with looking into the rattle can.

If I can get it done for less than a $100 after I strip and sand I will go that route.

To find a local powder coat shop do I just go to the yellow pages?

Thanks for all the feed back.

[Fixed]

yeah
cheers

[stormyClouds]

My plan is to persue the powder coat/auto painter route in parallel with looking into the rattle can.

If I can get it done for less than a $100 after I strip and sand I will go that route.

To find a local powder coat shop do I just go to the yellow pages?

Thanks for all the feed back.

Yes. I just did a Google search for powdercoat along with my zipcode.
My local powdercoater mostly does random bits, auto parts, etc.
It may be better to find one that doesn't specialize in bike related work. It seems to me that they charge much less that way. Mine was under $100 with the stripping/media blast.
However, do be sure to do your best to cover your bb threads and headtube ends. That, or possibly leave an old bb and headset in. Otherwise plan $30 or so to have your bb threads and ht chased and faced afterwards.

[Fixed]

[QUOTE=stormyClouds]Yes. I just did a Google search for powdercoat along with my zipcode.
you bike looks great
nice
cheers

[stormyClouds]

Thanks Fixed!
I always enjoy your positive posts :)

Lifelover, I hope that you have as much fun with your project as I did with mine.
Please post some before and after pics when you get her finished.

[TAW]

. . . echoes mine. I had a local place sandblast my Fisher Hoo-Koo-E-Koo frame down to bare metal, then I painted it in my basement with yellow I had mixed at the local auto paint place to match the Competition Yellow on my Serotta.

BBD

You painted one of your bikes YELLOW? When did you start liking yellow? :D

[PaulE]

I haven't painted anything that didn't involve a house, a paint can and a brush or roller in a long, long time, but when I did, a tack cloth was always used after sanding and before painting. It will pick up the small surface crap you can't see until after it's been painted on. They still sell tack cloths in hardware and paint stores. Do they still use them for final prepping automotive, motorcycle and bike frame paint jobs?

[stuckey]

I haven't painted anything that didn't involve a house, a paint can and a brush or roller in a long, long time, but when I did, a tack cloth was always used after sanding and before painting. It will pick up the small surface crap you can't see until after it's been painted on. They still sell tack cloths in hardware and paint stores. Do they still use them for final prepping automotive, motorcycle and bike frame paint jobs?

Yes we still use tack cloths for auto and motorcycles in body shops. So far nothing better has come down the pipe. A trick or tip I when it comes to wiping something down before paint. Do not use solvent or the auto wax and grease removers, use 1 part windex mixed with 10 parts water in a spray bottle. Just spray it on and wipe it off with a clean rag, then wait 5 minutes before top coating to make sure it is all evaporated. The solvent base stuff will stick in the primer and bleed out over time. That is why sometimes on cars you can see where the paint was blended on a panel or a painted panel has dyed back more than the rest of the car.

[PaulE]

Yes we still use tack cloths for auto and motorcycles in body shops. So far nothing better has come down the pipe. A trick or tip I when it comes to wiping something down before paint. Do not use solvent or the auto wax and grease removers, use 1 part windex mixed with 10 parts water in a spray bottle. Just spray it on and wipe it off with a clean rag, then wait 5 minutes before top coating to make sure it is all evaporated. The solvent base stuff will stick in the primer and bleed out over time. That is why sometimes on cars you can see where the paint was blended on a panel or a painted panel has dyed back more than the rest of the car.

Something old school still in use, how about that?

What about paint runs? Whether it was with a spray gun or a rattle can, my experience with runs was that they always occurred when I got "greedy". That is, I put paint on, it looked great, and I kept going, putting more on, when I should have stopped and let it dry before putting on another coat. I know the spray guns have to be clean and properly adjusted, but is being "greedy" as I described a big cause of runs in paint jobs?

[stuckey]

Something old school still in use, how about that?

What about paint runs? Whether it was with a spray gun or a rattle can, my experience with runs was that they always occurred when I got "greedy". That is, I put paint on, it looked great, and I kept going, putting more on, when I should have stopped and let it dry before putting on another coat. I know the spray guns have to be clean and properly adjusted, but is being "greedy" as I described a big cause of runs in paint jobs?

You are exactly right, runs are from laying it on too heavy without enough dry/flash time between coats. If you let it dry a little longer and do not put on too heavy of coats you will be fine. I ran a few cars terribly when I first started painting for the same reason.

[jhcakilmer]

I'd definitely recommend it, if you have the time and patience! I did a c'dale cadd8 frame, and it turned out pretty nice. I sanded, but not down to bare metal, since Al needs to be treated. I layed down 2-3 prime coats, and a bunch of paint coats (probably 5-6 coats), also sanded between each coat with super fine paper (400 or 600 grit - wet!!). I've done a couple projects before with other paint, but I've found that the Rustoleum Painters Touch, or American Accents is the best all around paint. Smooths out nice, covers quite well, dries reasonably fast, and a ton of color choices.

After the final layer of paint I waited about 2 weeks before I sprayed the clear. It really takes a long time to completely dry!!! Also, I would actually recommend having someone professionally spray the clear on. It was actually the most disappointing part of the entire process. I think the paint looks great, but the rattle can clear does not cover very well, nor does it smooth out.

I was happy with the separating strip, and transitions.....it's reasonably clean, and straight, but not perfect. Also, it was brought to my attention that the separating strip on the chain-stay should have been tucked behind the chain-ring....makes sense.

Here's the cadd8...
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z311/jhcakilmer/bike1.jpg
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z311/jhcakilmer/bike4.jpg
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z311/jhcakilmer/bike2.jpg
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z311/jhcakilmer/bike3.jpg

[Lifelover]

I'd definitely recommend it, if you have the time and patience! I did a c'dale cadd8 frame, and it turned out pretty nice. I sanded, but not down to bare metal, since Al needs to be treated. I layed down 2-3 prime coats, and a bunch of paint coats (probably 5-6 coats), also sanded between each coat with super fine paper (400 or 600 grit - wet!!). I've done a couple projects before with other paint, but I've found that the Rustoleum Painters Touch, or American Accents is the best all around paint. Smooths out nice, covers quite well, dries reasonably fast, and a ton of color choices.

After the final layer of paint I waited about 2 weeks before I sprayed the clear. It really takes a long time to completely dry!!! Also, I would actually recommend having someone professionally spray the clear on. It was actually the most disappointing part of the entire process. I think the paint looks great, but the rattle can clear does not cover very well, nor does it smooth out.

I was happy with the separating strip, and transitions.....it's reasonably clean, and straight, but not perfect. Also, it was brought to my attention that the separating strip on the chain-stay should have been tucked behind the chain-ring....makes sense.

Here's the cadd8...




That does look great!

Explain the separating strip?

[jhcakilmer]

That does look great!

Explain the separating strip?


I overlapped the white and silver metallic slightly, and then masked a strip with tape (Frog Masking Tape from The Home Depot), and sprayed a few coats of black. I sanded between coats lightly, and removed 2 hours after final coat.

The tape worked well, much better than that blue painters tape.

I also lightly sanded the entire frame including this strip before the clear.