650b wheel spec?

[eddief]

Dbrk and others: saw a photo at Riv re: the new 650b based Saluki frameset. Just wondering about the wheel spec and why Grant would choose it when other "small" wheels are available? Tradition?

My real curiousity is what does it feel like to do general road riding on the this lilliputian standard? The Saluki is fine looking bike and its uniqueness is attractive too.

[dbrk]

Yes indeed, eddie. Grant and Rivendell have posted some photos of their painted prototype Saluki. What we see on the Rivendell site is the pewter option (the other will be olive). 650B is a wonderful wheel-size, made famous of course by Herse, Singer, Routens, and the Taylor Bros in England. I own four 650Bs ----'61 Herse, '82 Singer, '00 Mariposa, '04 Mariposa single-speeder---and I'm in line for a 60cm Saluki (mine to be painted, likely red, by JB). This wheel size is a wonderful place between 700c/622mm and the 26"/559mm "mountain" bike standard. Critics will say why buck the trend, why make it harder, tires and rims will be hard to get, etc., but I have had no such troubles and never a worry getting what I need in parts. But the ride is genuinely _much_ different than mountain bike wheels, much more like road riding but on rough stuff, unpaved, trails, well there 650B comes into its own. Some too will say that it's not that much bigger than 559mm at 584mm but it's really a huge difference out on the road. I pestered Grant for years, nearly 10, trying to persuade him that 650B would be a wonderful thing and now we will have an affordable, not too fancy but nicely made example and a whole slew of new riders. Welcome to the Confreire des 650!!

dbrk
#933

[eddief]

Douglas,

Relative to 700 c wheels and tires, on a 650 b road-ish bike do you feel as though you are lower to the ground? Low bb, less wheel radius, etc? Sounds like fun.

One might guess you have an opine on which brakes one/you should choose of the two Riv options; center pull or canti?

[dbrk]

Because 650B wheels are smaller the bb height is actually higher than on a road bike to achieve the same low bb feel that we get on Serottas, Sachs, Rivendell, and other standard 8cm drop road bikes. You do feel more grounded because, well the wheels are smaller but you also get that good roll, that momentum that you don't get out of the mountain bike wheels which, for me, seem to stop rolling as soon as you stop pedaling. 650Bs feel like road wheels for the roll but are stalwart and comforting like mtn bike wheels, no kidding.

As for Saluki brake options, well, I would prefer braze-on pivots for the centerpulls but instead we will get through the bolt centerpulls. Centerpulls work about a million times better when there are braze-ons and the arms don't lever. If you use Koolstop pads they work great and the DiaCompes that work with the Saluki work very well (they are on my Mercian as "regular" caliper-like through the crown/no braze-on brakes. Certainly the Paul's cantilevers will give better and more stopping power than the centerpulls without the braze-on, but how much do you need? This is a little discussed matter, as if it is always better to have more stopping power---and there's no reason to have less other than it's unnecessary. Cantilevers come with the obvious issues they have always entailed, viz., they are what they are to adjust. Personally, I hate cantilevers. Yup, hate'em, don't like'em, would NEVER chose them for anything that didn't require them. I've never gotten to adjusting them and centerpulls are only about a million times easier. So my Saluki will have centerpulls though I wish they came with the braze-ons so that I could say they work as well as the cantilevers. The Mafac Raids on my Mariposas and the Competition 2000s on my Singer are pretty nice brakes and they allow fenders and big tires just perfectly. Centerpulls are obviously more traditional in some sense but Herse often used cantilevers, even Mafacs that he tweaked and sometimes altered to his own specs.

dbrk