Poll: More feminine Men's Pro Soccer Vs. Men's Pro Cycling

[M.Sommers]

Watching the UEFA Euro 2008 match, Germany versus Poland, as the men dive, fall to the field, from the least contact, wincing as if they were just burned with acid, stretchers, medics attend as the player arises moments later to continue play...I wonder, who is more feminine, male Pro Soccer players on the field, versus male Pro Cyclists off the bike?

I struggle to watch men's pro soccer. If I were referee, I'd throw away my whistle, my cards and tell the men, "Go play as tough as the pro women." Women's pro soccer is more fun to watch. Many male pro cyclists are primadonnas too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA7qt09kQk4

[Ozz]

...Women's pro soccer is more fun to watch. ...
+.99999999

I tend to agree...they pass more and whine less.

[CNY rider]

I don't have an opinion on your poll but I'm glad to see someone inching closer to being voted off the island again. :fight:

Pete, you likey this thread??????

[M.Sommers]

I don't have an opinion on your poll but I'm glad to see someone inching closer to being voted off the island again. :fight:

Pete, you likey this thread??????

What is your problem, dude? You certainly lack class with your weak post and that's your fault, not mine. Glad? Vote off the island? FWIW dude, anyone who left the island did so and I don't think they stayed or left cause of you. You may think your importance here is paramount, it may not be true. And fyi, I swim just fine and I live on an island already. What does it say about you that you're glad to see people pushed off a forum? Hmm? And what does it say about your outward glee that you mock those no longer here, behind their backs? Running to Pete? What are you, another wannabe police officer commando? Really dude.

IF you don't like a thread, show some class and pass it by. If you don't like my bread, don't feel compelled to break it. Grow up, act your age and not your chi-chi wheel spoke count.

And lol, your whining post actually feeds into my topic. Thanks! :) Oh and the paradox is astounding as many here refer to, 'Those voted off the island'. Island? Duh. Anyone who left the forum is sitting where? On the mainland. Be careful of this technological island you refer to, you'll come to find that you're sitting on it, alone. Sorry to be wise and funny in the same thread, having a personality is, I guess not a good thing, according to you. :rolleyes:

[false_Aest]

Eh,

Maybe I'm not reading some sort've sarcastic undertone but that just seems stupidly sexist.

I'll totally retract what I've said if I missed something though.

[M.Sommers]

Eh,

Maybe I'm not reading some sort've sarcastic undertone but that just seems stupidly sexist.

I'll totally retract what I've said if I missed something though.

How is it sexist? Can you define or expand on that?

Are we so PC that a man (me) cannot poke fun of men, in certain sports (soccer and cycling) who seem to act feminine?

[CNY rider]

M. Sommers

Who else do you think I am talking about in my post?

I am referring to you and you alone. You have no peers.

Your post and your poll are blatantly offensive and don't belong on this Forum nor in any other realm of polite discussion.

Pete takes no direction from me and will do as he wishes. I think it's clear however that our hosts want some of the offensive, immature garbage removed from the Forum and I think I spy an excellent candidate.......

[false_Aest]

I don't have a problem with anyone poking fun of men. I'm definitely not fan enough to get into specifics about futbol, I'd generally agree with you-there is an act and its similar to what we see on the basket ball court.

My problem is simply with the fact that calling a man feminine, a wuss, a puss, etc. reintroduces outdated (and slightly misogynistic) gender rolls.
---
My complaint is with the title of the post and the wording within, not the general idea you're trying to get at.
--
I realize that you didn't see your wording as negative. Maybe in another context (while on the bench at a gym) I'd be cool with it but on a "public" and searchable forum, its probably not the best.
--
Finally, I don't think that this thread should necessarily be deleted. It's probably a good conversation to have.


Hope I didn't piss ya off M.S





2nd Finally. Can we stop the argument now? This probably shouldn't erupt into somethin' bigger.

[M.Sommers]

M. Sommers

Who else do you think I am talking about in my post?

I am referring to you and you alone. You have no peers.

Your post and your poll are blatantly offensive and don't belong on this Forum nor in any other realm of polite discussion.

Pete takes no direction from me and will do as he wishes. I think it's clear however that our hosts want some of the offensive, immature garbage removed from the Forum and I think I spy an excellent candidate.......

All of this above ^ is strictly your opinion. You have no peers he says. Wow, CNY, how very Clint Eastwoodish of you.

Blatantly offensive? OMG. Call swoop! Cry to the hills! Are you aware there is a commercial on tv, it was just on channel 7, during the Celtics/Lakers game and it's for the EURO 2008 Cup. It shows Italian soccer players falling to the ground, pretending to be hurt, crying to the Ref and as the commercial fades to black it says, "If winning is an art...the Italians are masters."

Now CNY, are you going to contact ESPN and Channel 7 right now, sue them and sue them for what? Your post is blatantly passive-aggressive and perhaps Sir it is you who'd do well to go for a bike ride around your so-called island.

Thus far, the only immature thing I see, is a stranger (you) trolling in a thread to start an argument (flame) as you ask for, "Polite discussions" while you whine, insult and attack, it's all very weaselish. You're way outta line dude as you, "Spy an excellant candidate." It sounds like you had a bad weekend, sorry, I can't relate. :confused:

[M.Sommers]

I don't have a problem with anyone poking fun of men. I'm definitely not fan enough to get into specifics about futbol, I'd generally agree with you-there is an act and its similar to what we see on the basket ball court.

My problem is simply with the fact that calling a man feminine, a wuss, a puss, etc. reintroduces outdated (and slightly misogynistic) gender rolls.
---
My complaint is with the title of the post and the wording within, not the general idea you're trying to get at.
--
I realize that you didn't see your wording as negative. Maybe in another context (while on the bench at a gym) I'd be cool with it but on a "public" and searchable forum, its probably not the best.
--
Finally, I don't think that this thread should necessarily be deleted. It's probably a good conversation to have.


Hope I didn't piss ya off M.S





2nd Finally. Can we stop the argument now? This probably shouldn't erupt into somethin' bigger.

CNY is attacking me and I can either:

A). Defend myself
B). Be a turtle and allow him to insult me
C). Contact Pete

I chose 'A'. :beer: I dunno CNY from a hole in the wall, but he's got his chamois all dried up over this thread and he'd do well to spend $24.99 on Assos cream like the rest of us; me thinks he doth protest way too much. CNY talks of "Polite discussions" while he insults. LOL, really, lol.

[goonster]

How is it sexist?

I will learn you:

It is not sexist to intimate that male soccer players exhibit femine traits. They do, arguably, in the way many of them wear their hair (incessantly tucking it behind the ears, etc., which I guarantee the Spartans did not do), and I'll be the first to admit that Fernando Torres and Lio Messi look like a sixteen year-old girls.

It is probably sexist, to suggest that men who fake injures and suffer theatrically are feminized by this behavior.

Exhibit A:
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/9198/foto442hf0.jpg

[CNY rider]

Men's Pro Cycling versus Men's Pro Soccer, who wears the skirt?

vs.

"If winning is an art...the Italians are masters."


I'll go out on a limb and say that one of those, posted on this forum, is blatantly offensive.
Can you really not see the difference between the two?

Good luck, as I won't be contributing further to this thread.

[M.Sommers]

I will learn you:

It is not sexist to intimate that male soccer players exhibit femine traits. They do, arguably, in the way many of them wear their hair (incessantly tucking it behind the ears, etc., which I guarantee the Spartans did not do), and I'll be the first to admit that Fernando Torres and Lio Messi look like a sixteen year-old girls.

It is probably sexist, to suggest that men who fake injures and suffer theatrically are feminized by this behavior.

Exhibit A:
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/9198/foto442hf0.jpg

I played soccer for 13 years, dated a professional female player in CA. I know soccer. The commercial on ESPN and WABC speaks volumes. I did not produce nor direct that commercial, but I do whole heartedly agree with it. Men's soccer on a pro level, on the field (again, note I said on-field) is famous for their type of play. My girlfriend even noted that her team was tougher than the local men's club. Should we sue her for what, contempt of sport? :rolleyes:

I also noted that many pro cyclists seem quite feminine off the bike. We're talking about a sport which many of us participate in on some level. I shave my legs a few times a year, I imagine many here do. Tell me your girlfriend, wife or buddies don't make fun of you. Can you honestly tell me they don't? And what would it do to admit this, which we already know? Where is the controversy? :confused:

To me, these are no-brainers, quite obvious.

[M.Sommers]

CNY Rider,

I did some research. Here is exhibit 'A':

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=44721

I rest my case.

Game, set, match. You attacked me and I just handed you your hat.

When you're ready to apologize, drop me a PM. Let's handle it off-line, no need to snipe. I am certain you agree your thread above discounts you from any/all high ground you seemed to grab in the debate above. Insulting me as sexist is now no longer something you can do.

Respectfully,
M.Sommers

PS. You also posted on 5/16, speaking about how there is too much sniping on the Forum. Agreed.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=45771

PSS. You also openly ask the Forum for Ride Reports, welp, I actually ride a wee bit, here is a positive arena for you to post in if you choose. Instead of openly lobbying to have me banned, why not post a ride report or post in one?:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=46839

[dauwhe]

I don't think this thread is appropriate. We are Serotta's guests, and have been asked to be on our best behavior. A serious discussion of (for example) the difference in team tactics between female and male professional cyclists could be interesting, but making fun of other people based on stereotypes is unlikely to be productive.

Dave

[M.Sommers]

I don't think this thread is appropriate. We are Serotta's guests, and have been asked to be on our best behavior. A serious discussion of (for example) the difference in team tactics between female and male professional cyclists could be interesting, but making fun of other people based on stereotypes is unlikely to be productive.

Dave

Dave, was this appropriate?:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=44721

[Louis]

In the OP's defense, this thread may be somewhat off-topic (soccer), but it seems to me that you folks are over reacting big time. You might not share his sense of humor or his choice of poll options, but it's hardly a reason to call for banning.

Hey, here's an idea - ignore his posts!

Louis

[M.Sommers]

Here, CNY uses the phrase, "Man-up":

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=540455#post540455

And here, CNY refers to a bike as a, "Big boy bike":

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=539858#post539858

Or here, evoking Clarence Thomas as humor:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=473015#post473015

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I can only hope by now that CNY (and others) can take a serious breath and realize how sniping and judgment can be a very slippery slope. And if I were so egotistical and pious to think that I could've replied to CNY's use of "Man-up" etc in the threads above, calling him out, demanding he be banned...then I know I need to go for a bike ride.

[M.Sommers]

In the OP's defense, this thread may be somewhat off-topic (soccer), but it seems to me that you folks are over reacting big time. You might not share his sense of humor or his choice of poll options, but it's hardly a reason to call for banning.

Hey, here's an idea - ignore his posts!

Louis

Thanks. And fwiw, many may not get the reference to Greg LeMond, they may not get it. FYI folks, I am a huge GL fan. There, I feel better now.

Before CNYRider takes out his frame pump and attempts to throw it in my spokes (how lame to post that you want someone banned, it's so immature/lame etc) he ought to read this thread, it's replies and reallllliiiizzzeee that humor and wit come in all different wavelengths. See here:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=46452



:beer:

[girlie]

are you ovulating yetmo?

I'm ovulating.

[cadence90]

Cyclymists and most soccer players (esp. Les Bleus and Zinedang) wear Brut splashed all over their chests.

Real men wear this:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8a/FC_Internazionale_logo.png


CAMPIONI D'ITALIA 2006-2008.

[jeffg]

How often do cyclists get denigrated for not being "manly" like NFL, NBA, etc.?

How much respect does soccer get in the US?

In a week where we just had the 20th anniversary of Hampsten's ride over the Gavia, to see the diving and whining in Euro 2008 is just annoying. Look at the salary figures being thrown around for C. Ronaldo. He's a great player but I still think Julie Foudy could take him in a bar fight, and she's a very attractive woman and was a great player ...

[jeffg]

Cyclymists and most soccer players (esp. Les Bleus and Zinedang) wear Brut splashed all over their chests.

Real men wear this:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8a/FC_Internazionale_logo.png


CAMPIONI D'ITALIA 2007-2008.

Who won the Champion's league?

[cadence90]

Who won the Champion's league?
This year? Some Brit team bought it off from some other Brit team (at least according to M. Platini).

Next year? Inter = Scudetto, Coppa Italia, Champions League, fair and square. With Toldo. Cambiasso, Lampard, Crespo, Materazzi, Suazo, Drogba, leading and Ibrahimovic the Golden Boot. Thank gawd the weakest link, that arrrogant CT +/- Mancini, is finally gone. He's a great CT for some third-rate hack team like Catanzaro, or Treviso, Serie B/C. Or Portsmouth. :)

[73Camaro_Dude]

During the recent marketing blitzes in recent years in the US regarding the US Womens and US Mens Soccer teams.... I will say wholeheartedly that the essence of the OPs post is spot on. Could it have been worded differently, yes, but it is straight up correct.

Mens soccer players are drama queens... eeert, scratch that... for fear of offending any queens or even transvestites.... lets start again.

Mens soccer players are overly dramatic. Their constant dives and writhing in agony, only to miraculously heal up... limp for two seconds, then be able to play at full speed... only serves to make the game longer, and less tactical. From a non fan perspective it is distracting, and is the reason I will not watch or attend our own local professional major league soccer team.

I have always stated that what the women lack in speed vs men... I feel they pass better, and are far more tenacious. Women want to play the game... the men seem to be more interested in drawing attention to themselves.

I totally get what he is saying.

[Cdub]

WOW, I think folks are a little sensitive here. I really believe this was started in fun. I laughed when I read it!

As far as soccer, I played for years including college, in Europe and some pro. It would piss me off when I would brush some one and they would flop around on the ground in "agony'. I often times would call the a (you fill in the word). The next time down the field I would hit them harder.

Part of sport is talking some good smack as long as you back it up. Part of sport is fans talking smack, making fun etc. Take a look at rivalry! (SOX, Yankees) I am sure those two teams never call each other names.

Cycling, my wife calls me a girl or fruity (fruity is not intended to be a slur, just what she calls me) for shaving my legs. My guy friends are ten times worse.

What ever, i keeping going and laugh!

I hope all enjoy their day and laugh!

So I am thinking of getting a new bike. My frame is two years old. Thoughts?

[jsfoster]

[QUOTE=Cdub]WOW, I think folks are a little sensitive here. I really believe this was started in fun. I laughed when I read it!

+1, As is said here.

This whole thread started as a lark, did anyone see the poll right off ("campy" - still ahead :beer: ). It is tricky telling or making a joke in type, perhaps especially to or with those who don't know you well- or maybe with those who do know you well. Hence, the smilies or :-)'s to indicate just the little edge that may be missing when one can't see or hear the other.

STILL A GREAT FORUM, ATMO! :-)

-Jon

[M.Sommers]

[QUOTE=Cdub]WOW, I think folks are a little sensitive here. I really believe this was started in fun. I laughed when I read it!

+1, As is said here.

This whole thread started as a lark, did anyone see the poll right off ("campy" - still ahead :beer: ). It is tricky telling or making a joke in type, perhaps especially to or with those who don't know you well- or maybe with those who do know you well. Hence, the smilies or :-)'s to indicate just the little edge that may be missing when one can't see or hear the other.

STILL A GREAT FORUM, ATMO! :-)

-Jon

Jon,

The funniest part about it is the obvious...I played soccer for 13 years and shave my legs for bike rides too! Sheesh, if we can't make fun of ourselves, who can? I played sweeper and never took a fall.

One element I tried to convey is that LeMond was different, he was perceived as a rugged guy off the bike, an outdoorsman who took time off the bike. I remember the interviews and stories of him back in the day. I used a Morrissey song to get this point across: Greg LeMond was the real deal.

Regards,
Pele

:beer:

[Lifelover]

In the OP's defense, this thread may be somewhat off-topic (soccer), but it seems to me that you folks are over reacting big time. You might not share his sense of humor or his choice of poll options, but it's hardly a reason to call for banning.

Hey, here's an idea - ignore his posts!

Louis
+100

I generally find Mary Sommers posts a little on the senseless and silly side but how this thread can be viewed as offensive is beyond me.


Has PC reached the point where it is off limits to suggest that men and women are different?

[207 cm]

PCness is sooooo gaynessing.

[JD Smith]

Watching the UEFA Euro 2008 match, Germany versus Poland, as the men dive, fall to the field, from the least contact, wincing as if they were just burned with acid, stretchers, medics attend as the player arises moments later to continue play...I wonder, who is more feminine, male Pro Soccer players on the field, versus male Pro Cyclists off the bike?

I struggle to watch men's pro soccer. If I were referee, I'd throw away my whistle, my cards and tell the men, "Go play as tough as the pro women." Women's pro soccer is more fun to watch. Many male pro cyclists are primadonnas too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA7qt09kQk4

I've watched womens soccer and they don't seem engage in the melodramatic dives as frequently. So if you judge "feminine" by how the females act, mens soccer is actually less feminine.
I'd label it as as weak, phony, deceptive, disingenuous, embarrassing.

[fiamme red]

"Tiger Woods is the best because he's a man whereas the other golfers are spoiled wimps."

Hmmm... :rolleyes:

[AndrewS]

This site does seem to suffer from a few "brother's keepers". There's no reason to personally insult or attack someone because you don't like the content or style of their post.

I'm reminded of drivers who use their 4000 lbs cars to enforce their idea of traffic rules against cyclists and other cars. It is not their job, and makes the roads more dangerous and unpleasant.

The same could be said for splattering a forum with invective for the sake of having "a nicer forum". Does not compute.



Oh, I voted Campy.

[Keith A]

Okay, I haven't read through all the bickering on this thread, but it certainly seems that this rule has not been followed
Respect toward fellow members is expected. You agree not to harass, flame, insult, taunt, or otherwise disrespect any member of this forum. In other words, if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.So I'm shutting this one down...feel free to PM me if you feel differently.

[Pete Serotta]

Okay, I haven't read through all the bickering on this thread, but it certainly seems that this rule has not been followed
So I'm shutting this one down...feel free to PM me if you feel differently.

Must be snowy Monday