Johanthan Vaughters on Climbing

[keno]

http://theclimb.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/06/ready-to-edit-and-post-expert-advice-from-jonathan-vaughters/

Useful, I think, advice follows a discussion of why we climb at all. Long and short of it is that climbing ain't fun for anyone. His remarks about how you look when climbing reminded me of a comment made to me on a climb as snot was dribbling down my own chin; "This ain't no beauty contest!"

keno

[rnhood]

Poignant and colorful. Good article.

[Ray]

That's a great read. He's a pretty funny guy, for a cycling coach. But I have to take issue with the same point I always have to take issue with:

He says: "I see so many people looking for that secret technique or training method that will make climbing painless and suffer-free. This will never happen. Training and techniques will make you suffer slightly faster up hills, not suffer any less. Climbing is painful, period." Greg Lemond said the same thing, along the lines of "it never gets any easier, you just get faster".

I says: Racers are always saying this (and for them its absolutely true) and non-racers are always reading and believing it, but it only really applies to racing or if you're otherwise trying to go as fast as possible. If you're not, getting in shape gives you a choice between suffering slightly faster up hills and suffering less, sometimes a LOT less. I'm not riding much these days, but when I was riding a lot, I LOVED climbing. I was no damn good at it if speed is your criteria. But if speed's not your criteria, I was an awesome climber. Hence, speed was not my criteria.

There were limits - somewhere around 12% on a hill of any length, climbing stopped being fun regardless of how slow I was going and just became a slog. I'm sure that break point varies depending on your body type and level of conditioning, but for me it was always in that 10-12% range (although I dug steep SHORT hills). But in the 6-10% range, with the right gears, I could climb some big old hills/mountains and really enjoy the process. Not feel like I was working too hard or suffering. More like I was floating. If someone faster came by and I tried to keep up for any period of time, THEN I'd suffer. But if I just got into my own rhythm and didn't worry about how fast anyone else was riding, I frickin' LOVED it.

This obviously does not apply if you're trying to win the local hill-climb or if racing is otherwise your thing. But there are lots of people who aren't riding for that, so, just sayin'.

-Ray

[toaster]

Well, first of all I'm voting for McCain :)


Climbing slow is work. Going fast means to suffer. Climbing fast is really suffering.

What would Obama do?

[dauwhe]

Ray gets it.

"with the right gears" should be emphasized as much as possible.

Dave (who has a 30 x 30 low gear on my "fast" bike)

[Ray]

Well, first of all I'm voting for McCain :)

.....

What would Obama do?
I suspect he'd drop McCain like a stone on any climb you'd care to see 'em on. Climbing is one place I'd probably be closer to McCain :beer:

The election? We'll have to see.

Ray gets it.

"with the right gears" should be emphasized as much as possible.

Dave (who has a 30 x 30 low gear on my "fast" bike)
My "fast" bike has a 34x34. Mine's bigger!

-Ray

[dauwhe]

My "fast" bike has a 34x34. Mine's bigger!

-Ray

Just wait 'till I get my dream dirt road bike. I think 20 x 34 would be a good low gear!

Dave

[gdw]

Can you actually spin that low a gear and still stay upright?

[dauwhe]

I've been VERY overgeared in 24 x 32... so I think it would be worth a try!

And I already have 20t and 22t chainrings for 58bcd lying around, so it wouldn't cost me anything to try.

Think 25% on dirt, or long stretches at 20% on pavement...

Dave

[Buzz]

[QUOTE=Ray]I suspect he'd drop McCain like a stone on any climb you'd care to see 'em on. Climbing is one place I'd probably be closer to McCain :beer:

The election? We'll have to see.


Closer than you think.

McCain has demonstrated his ability to endure the worst kind of physical and mental suffering that very few have lived through. You get the feeling that he could tough himself up and over a climb.

Plus Obama's little discussed life long cigarette habit has probably ruined his lungs. All the weed he admits he smoked wouldn't help his lungs either.

There's a lot to learn about Barry Obama. I hope folks aren't going to be too disappointed to learn that he is just another politician that's been dressed up differently.

[Louis]

or long stretches at 20% on pavement...

Roads like that are hopefully few and far between...

On one of my bikes I have a triple with a 42 middle ring and a 12-34 in back. That works well on the rollers around here, giving me a very wide range without having to shift in front. For the really steep stuff I can bail out to the little ring.

[gdw]

I run 20x30 off road and find that it's faster and less effort to walk up any section which can't be climbed with that combination.

[sloji]

Ok, so I struggled up this 7-20% 7 mile hill and had to get off twice and walk, once when I hit some gravel and the second time so my heart did not explode. I have a 53/39 with a 12/25, campy, what's the easiest way to get a bail out gear or just a couple of smaller gears?

[Louis]

what's the easiest way to get a bail out gear or just a couple of smaller gears?

You now get to face the "compact vs. triple" question. If you need just a few more teeth in back, you can just get a different cassette. If you need more than that you can do what lots of others have done, which is a compact with a 34 in front. You have lots of options. It depends on the terrain you typically ride, how much shifting you want to do in front vs in back, etc.

Do the math (I created an Excel spreadsheet to allow me to compare the various options) and see what you think will work for you.

Good Luck
Louis

[Dave]

Ok, so I struggled up this 7-20% 7 mile hill and had to get off twice and walk, once when I hit some gravel and the second time so my heart did not explode. I have a 53/39 with a 12/25, campy, what's the easiest way to get a bail out gear or just a couple of smaller gears?

With Campy, the 13-26 cassette offers little improvment and the other choice is a 13-29 The 13-29 may require a medium cage rear derailleur, unless your chainstays are the perfect length or you're sure you'll never accidentally shift into the 53/29.

Switching to a compact won't provide any lower gear unless you're willing to lose a lot of top gear. I use a 50/34 with a 12-25, so my top gear is a bit higher than a 53/12 and my low is almost as low as a 39/25. That switch would be expensive.

If you regularly ride slopes so steep that your cadence drops to 65 rpm or 8mph, when pedaling seated, you have to decide whether to shift 1-2 cogs smaller and pedal standing, or change to a lower gear so you can remain seated.

If your heart rate runs too high, that's your fault. You have to practice cadence control, particularly when pedaling standing.

[Fixed]

[QUOTE=Ray]I suspect he'd drop McCain like a stone on any climb you'd care to see 'em on. Climbing is one place I'd probably be closer to McCain :beer:

The election? We'll have to see.


Closer than you think.

McCain has demonstrated his ability to endure the worst kind of physical and mental suffering that very few have lived through. You get the feeling that he could tough himself up and over a climb.

Plus Obama's little discussed life long cigarette habit has probably ruined his lungs. All the weed he admits he smoked wouldn't help his lungs either.

There's a lot to learn about Barry Obama. I hope folks aren't going to be too disappointed to learn that he is just another politician that's been dressed up differently.
bro if you believe that crap i got some swamp land for you
cheers

[Ray]

Can you actually spin that low a gear and still stay upright? (20x34)
I actually couldn't, or didn't find it useful in any case. I did a dirt tour out west a few years ago on my cross bike and set it up with a 20x34 low instead of the 24x34 I usually had on it. There were a couple of long sections of 18% dirt road that I'd drop down to that gear and I'd work so hard staying upright, it was actually more work than just pushing a slightly higher gear and having enough speed to balance more easily. Even the 20x30 wasn't much use. I found that when I needed those gears, I was faster and used less energy getting off and walking. On pavement, where the balance and maintaining traction was less of an issue, I've occasionally used a 24x34, but its very very very rare that I go all the way down to that lowest gear. Although I've spent some time in the 24x30 on really long steeps.

-Ray

[Buzz]

[QUOTE=Buzz]
bro if you believe that crap i got some swamp land for you
cheers

Fixed. All I believe is what I see.

Remember when Obama stood in front of this country and bared his soul and vowed to all of us how he could no sooner disavow/disown Rev. Wright and his church than his "typical" white grandmother? (Imagine anyone else referring to a "typical" black person or mexican person or asian person and getting away with it)

Remember that beautiful speech? I was moved by it. People were lauding it as the Gettysburg address of race.

So, what does this ethical man of principle and change do a month later? Yeah, disavow and dismiss Rev Wright and then later his church. Do you deny he did this? Does this not bother you that he could so quickly slough off his spiritual advisor, friend, the guy that inspired the title of his book, etc. and then his church of 20 years and so readily sell out his principles for some votes? Words and actions do matter.

Bothers me. Shows me his true colors. Pure political move and nothing else.

Also, nice of him to equivocate the racial spewing of Rev. Wright to the racial eptithets his deceased grandmother supposedly used. The same grandmother that raised him from age 10 and footed the bill for him at Punahou in Honolulu (the most prestigious school in Hawaii) and later in college. Nice way to honor the one person in your life that actually bothered to look after you.

These are facts. We haven't even discussed why now convicted felon Rezko just happened to step in and drop $625,000 to buy a vacant piece of land next door to Obama to help facilitate Obama's purchase of the property. If you believe that was just out of Rezko's good nature I have some swamp land for you.

All I'm saying is that all this stuff is what a pure politician does.

Just because you are blind in love doesn't make these facts "crap."

What's your answer? I am interested in how you justify and rationalize Obama's actions.

[gdw]

Keep this one on topic and debate the candidates merits off list or on another thread.

As to climbing ability, Bush is the best (and only?) cyclist to ever make it into the White House and would kick both of their butts in a hillclimb. :banana:

[Fixed]

Keep this one on topic and debate the candidates merits off list or on another thread.

As to climbing ability, Bush is the best (and only?) cyclist to ever make it into the White House and would kick both of their butts in a hillclimb. :banana:
+1
cheers
no one is without a past some are fast learners imho
cheers

[flickwet]

Kerry at least road a Serotta, There I said it. Keno thanks for the great link

[toaster]

I think Vaughters would predict the results of an uphill TT as follows:

1. G.W. Bush
2. John Kerrey
3. Obama
4. John McCain

Hillary would have quit somewhere near the finish for a DNF.

[rounder]

I saw jonathon vaughters today...he was climbing into the slipstream team car carrying all the bikes after todays race in Philadelphia. He looked fit...like he would have been competitive if he was racing today.

[RPS]

Yeah, but which one can best balance the needs of the many with the needs of the few, or the one (particularly mine :rolleyes: )?

That’s the guy I’m voting for.