new dura ace--official photos

[sailorboy]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=/tech/2008/features/shimano_dura-ace_790008

I dunno, to me this makes it harder to be a campy guy. If nothing else, its for the gee-whiz techie improvements over the last stuff...no arguement for me that it already looks way better than 7800.

seems like they went right after SRAM on this; its like they don't even care about campy anymore

[soulspinner]

Looks like a great group. All the brake levers of the big 3 seem to be ending up looking very similar-with Campy and Shimano looking like Sram. New DA crank looks better than the old version.

[William]

That's a sharp looking gruppo. :cool: The crank and rings remind me og the old Mopar GTX wheel covers...and that's a good thing.





William

[ashwa64]

i think it's ugly.

[ricolicious]

http://www.dura-ace.com/start.htm

[stormyClouds]

The crankset style looks similar to the current Shimano XTR 970 crankset.
I have a set of those, and besides being a great design, they are aesthetically pleasing, IMO. The flat surface which takes abuse from shoe rub is a matte finish which doesn't get scuffed up much.

[eddief]

as i was losing a lot of my energy transfer that way on my old cassettes.

[PaulE]

The master link in the chain and the hidden brake cables were long overdue. I hope that means that some of this trickles down to Ultegra SL in 2010. The fact that 7900 will be compatible with 7800 is nice too. Get the new brifters and keep the rest of your group until it needs replacing.

From VeloNews.com

Shimano claims its new Dura-Ace front derailleur cage design eliminates the need to manually trim the front shifting, therefore the extra detents have been eliminated. The redesigned front derailleur linkage is wider and the spring is tweaked to reduce the effort required at the shift lever. This is a tough one to stomach, as the absence of trim for both chainrings is one of our top gripes when it comes to SRAM’s road groups.

I hope that one works. I remember when the auto parts manufacturers stopped putting grease fittings on universal joints and ball joints, and said that they were "lubricated for life", which was true. The fact that the "life" was then 6 months was not as important as saving $0.05 per unit in manufacturing costs.

Do they sound like they understand who's buying their products?:

“Creating something that’s as lightweight as possible is an important goal especially for a product like [Dura-Ace], but it’s never going to be sacrificed for critical features, features that will actually increase endurance, reduce fatigue as well as insure that you’ve got a product that isn’t going to fail you when you need it most,” said Walton.

“Those things are going to trump reducing weight, and I think ultimately we’ve always been more conservative that way and that’s paid off in competition. We're making it with high enough performance so that it can be used by ProTour riders; we also realize that this is one of those sports that you can go out and buy the same stuff they’re riding in the Tour de France. Who knows how long they’re going to ride it? We always think about the racer and that’s the environment this product is developed in, but the reality is that the vast majority of it is purchased by people who aren’t racers and they might not reinvest as soon as someone who races does. It’s like if you could buy Formula One parts for your car, yet still drive the thing daily.”

[Kevan]

ug-go-lee

[fiamme red]

It's great to see that they'll still offer downtube shifters.

[William]

ug-go-lee


isn't that what the Witch's guards chanted as they walked around the castle??? :rolleyes:

"Uuuuug, Ug-go-lee..."


"I'll get your DA my pretty...and the down tube shifters too!!!! Ahhh hahahaha..."

http://web.syr.edu/~jasilves/images/Resize_Assistant-1.jpg






William :rolleyes: ;)

[deechee]

this danish site (http://happymtb.org/2008/06/02/shimano-dura-ace-2009/) has these pics which seem to indicate very little compatability, something which cyclingnews has said in the past...?

[HSG Racer]

That is one stunning looking grouppo! It looks even better than the current 7800 set which is also a sharp looking set. I hope that Shimano improved the BB bearings on this one. The 7800 outer BB design was a great improvement but the BB bearings were junk. Let’s see if they are any better with this version.

[corky]

That's a useful diagram(s) if it's correct....

Thanks for posting :beer:

[Ahneida Ride]

anohter Uggggg o lee vote ....

[Ken C]

this danish site (http://happymtb.org/2008/06/02/shimano-dura-ace-2009/) has these pics which seem to indicate very little compatability, something which cyclingnews has said in the past...?

If you read the chart correctly you can use the new brifters with the old RDs, but you will have to change the FD because of the lack of trim adjustment. The only other area is that the old cranks are not compatible with the new chain. You can use the new link with the older model chains. Otherwise you can mix and match. The news that was originally reported was that the brifters were not going to be compatible with the older RDs.

I agree the cranks look bad.

[jmc22]

http://velonews.com/article/76923/shimano-unveils-the-new-dura-ace-7900

[Dave B]

no ceramic pulley system (SRAM)
ceramic BB (SRAM)

less material on brakes (Zero G, M5 etc.)

carbon FD (campy)


I say there is still room for improvement. :rolleyes: None of it will make me any faster. But the cranks do look interesting.


Wonder what this will cost. retail for those of use who do not get stuff at cost. $2600+ ????

[BdaGhisallo]

Compatibility shouldn't be too bad. From the charts I have seen, it looks like you can use the 7900 shifters along with the 7900 front and rear derrs and use 7800 everywhere else. That won't be too bad. Also, the Shimano quick link will work with the 7800 chain.

7800 is already so damn slick that all I want from this stuff is more comfortable hoods and the hidden cables.


On the aesthetics side of things, I have to agree with the fugly crowd. I am a shimano-phile but this stuff is not the prettiest looking. The shifters look fine and the front and rear derrs looks good enough, but what were they thinking with that crankset and the brake calipers? They are not pretty.

And, why oh why, did they not adopt the non-drive crank arm retention system they introduced on 07 XTR? That seems like a much better solution.

[stuckey]

I am a Campy guy but I kind of like it, that is besides the cranks... It is well past due that they hide the cables and change the shape of there levers.

[jhcakilmer]

That's not ugly, it's F'UGLY.......... :p

I love that Shimano is including CF in the 7900, now the shimano loyals will have to stop the "campy just keeps throwing more CF at us" chant.

Seems like the components they don't use CF on, they try to disguise with a two-tone color.

[RPS]

But the cranks do look interesting.I don't like that the shape may preclude using aftermarket chainrings.

[rphetteplace]

when I saw the cranks i threw up a little in my mouth.

Cranks stopped looking good to me at Campy alloy record and DA 9. Anything is an eyesore.

[Tobias]

The only design revisions that add value for me have little to do with weight savings or appearance.

Improved braking, rear derailleur with 33T capacity, compact cranks, additional 11T cassettes with wider ratios, wireless computer, and a few other functional improvements get my attention. No racing triple, but that’s OK for now.

So it saves 180 grams, or 0.4 pounds? :rolleyes: That’s OK too but not something I prioritize; or at least not enough to upgrade. If or when most of the functional improvements filter down to Ultegra (maybe aluminum in lieu of carbon and an extra pound of weight) I’ll be all over it.

[Satellite]

The real question; do I build up a new bike or put the 2008 DA on my existing bike?

As far as being ugly NO-Way, the colors will complement Satin Ti perfectly.

Most excited about the Compact Crank I haven't decided if I am going to do the 11/28 or 12/27 cassette.

I am glad the manufactures are starting to realize the high-end need for lower gears without going to triples.

If only Colorado had lower mountains.

Satellite

[TimD]

About time they fixed that folding chainring problem, I'm getting that weekly while simply pedaling in the 53.

Not...

[Volant]

Where's the DA fixed group? (i.e. a single-ring crank and matching rear hub)

[PaulE]

look interesting. Still built with loose ball bearings and cones, but they have the ability to adjust the bearings with an Allen wrench instead of cone wrenches. It usually takes me several attempts to get loose bearing hubs properly adjusted after reassembling them. As long as it's just one Allen wrench and not trying to turn two in opposite directions at the same time.

[gdw]

Shimano rings are good but I like to have the option of using other manufacturers* models. I won't buy any of their newer XTR and XT cranksets because of the funky designs and will avoid Dura Ace as well.

It's nice to see that they are still offering hubs with loose bearing and have bar end and down tube shifters included in the new group.

*Middleburn rings work great and are lighter and last longer.

[ThasFACE]

I sorta like the gunmetal look. Although the srm setup with the new rings does look dreadful.

[shinomaster]

I kinda like it in a sci-fi HR.Giger sort of way..

[Dave B]

I am not the type of rider who needs the best components, but I sure do want them.

Shimano, Campy, SRAM, all seem to be working to out do the other, which makes perfect sense.

Shimano seems to not understand the eye candy as part of the bike. Campy (maybe because it is Italian) seems to understand that beauty and science can work in a symphony of art/function. I honestly do not have any right now, but the times I had campy, I was simply memorized by the newest crankset and how wonderful it felt in my hands.

SRAM, has some parts (cassette, rear mech, and even brifters) that also seem to try to fit into this mold. I think they are really trying, but almost catering to a racer's look. Flashy logos and serious marketing.


Shimano this time around just seems to be moving to industrial. The finish I am sure is an improvement from their easily scuffed stuff of yesterday, but the offsetting tones of anodized look just doesn't seem to strike a chord.

I could care less in a debate on which is better as it simply means so little to me.

I suppose if I had a choice there are parts of each (although I have not ridden SRAM on a long or grueling ride) that I wish I could have.

anyway simple rambles of a mind 4 days from the end of work!

[Dave]

Well, the shifters are lighter, but still heavier than Campy or SRAM. I expect they will still not be repairable. What I have not heard is if the brake lever still swings to execute shifts to larger cogs. It's not a feature that I would put on my want list. Edit: All reports say the brake lever is also a shift lever, as in the past.

Somebody's missing the point about no trim for the 7900 FD. It doesn't have any because it's not supposed to need any. Most likely this is done with a wider cage that moves to the right sufficiently to make the shift up to the big ring, then returns further to the left than in the past, eliminating any need for trim. I sure wouldn't complain about that. It's one thing that Campy could not duplicate with their simpler mechanism.

I'm not sure how you figure that Shimano "went after" SRAM, since Campy's sales are so small that even if no one bought Campy, It would hardly be noticeable if all the sales went to Shimano.

Campy's shifters have always had hidden cables, they are still lighter, cheaper and repairable too. They could use the brake lever reach adjustment feature and may have it, since details of the '09 ergo lever changes have not been revealed, but there will be changes.

I think Campy's carbon UT cranks will continue to offer more bang for the buck. The Chorus model, in particular has a great price to weight ratio.

Campy's doing their own thing with the new narrower chain and 11 speed cassette. The conversion requirements will be similar to Shimano - new shifters, RD, chain and cassette. The crank is also listed as 11 speed, but no word on whether the change is actually to the tooth thickness, or just a minor spacing change. Even if the cog teeth get thinner, I'll be measuring the exact amount before ordering unneeded rings or crank.

[girlie]

I liked it when components looked like jewelry the bike wore:)
Though I suppose it's cool that now they look like they are one with the bikes......not sure that makes sense to anyone except me.

[RPS]

I liked it when components looked like jewelry the bike wore:)
Though I suppose it's cool that now they look like they are one with the bikes......not sure that makes sense to anyone except me.…you mean brakes went from being an accessory to a necessity?

[girlie]

…you mean brakes went from being an accessory to a necessity?

I remember one year when Record brakes weighed more then the Chorus.....I think it was an aesthetic thing. Those days are gone.....blue jewels and metal plates......

[Waldo]

I hate the crank and like the shifters. Aesthetics matter only when the bike is sitting in your living room and you're looking at it. No one pays attention to the appearance of own bike's derailleurs, cranks, shifters, etc. while riding. So, the solution ... ride more.

[girlie]

I hate the crank and like the shifters. Aesthetics matter only when the bike is sitting in your living room and you're looking at it. No one pays attention to the appearance of own bike's derailleurs, cranks, shifters, etc. while riding. So, the solution ... ride more.

So shut up and ride more and you will love the cranks and not care about the shifters;)

[shinomaster]

Or you could just get Ultegra.

[Chris]

With the cost that someone projected on Weight Weenies ($2300) for the group, I may have to go back to Campy, but now Campy is going to 11 so maybe I will do Red. Or then again, I may stay with 7800 since I actually like the cables exposed...

[djg]

Red Foxx used to say that beauty is only skin deep . . .

but ugly goes down to the bone.

The crankset . . . probably works great, but I don't like it. The kit looks like it should turn into action figures. Feh.

[michael white]

Shimano always looks a little wierd at first . . . I usually "get it" somewhere about the time it's changing again . . . so I've stopped thinking about how it looks.

I'm also glad that the competition is so fierce right now. It does seem that Sram is making them all really work for it.

mw

[sailorboy]

Shimano always looks a little wierd at first . . . I usually "get it" somewhere about the time it's changing again . . . so I've stopped thinking about how it looks.

I'm also glad that the competition is so fierce right now. It does seem that Sram is making them all really work for it.

mw
Good points, I agree that the competition is good. It's interesting to see what they (the big 3) will come up with next, although somewhat frustrating at the same time since the cross-compatibility becomes an issue with a new grouppo every 1.75 years.

I sort of think of the shimano stuff for my 'working' bikes--cross rig, everyday road racer, commuter--while the bikes I would spend more time staring at still get the campy treatment.

[shinomaster]

What do you guys expect from the Japanese? You should see their modern architecture.

[sailorboy]

*****, spend 5 minutes watching TV over here and you might think they were colonized by a band of exiled Parisian gypsies.

On many levels you can go from the sublimely beautiful to the utterly ridiculous in the same city block--the ultimate land of contrasts...I'll miss it dearly!!!

[shinomaster]

Harajuku (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/5761/commentcute1sf8.png&imgrefurl=http://www.zazzle.com/kawaii/products/cg-196928536506066921&h=706&w=400&sz=453&hl=en&start=13&um=1&tbnid=uCaleb4Iy5dpwM:&tbnh=140&tbnw=79&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dharajuku%2Bgirls%2B%26um%3D1%26hl%3De n%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN) girls?

[girlie]

try this http://www.fruits-mg.com/

[mosca]

I want it! Those brifters look like the shiznit, I can't wait to try them.

But I can't help thinking how much better that stuff would look without that grey accent color on there. Oh well, guess I'll withhold judgement until I can see it in person.

[shinomaster]

Imho this is sculpture...Great design too.

[Ken Robb]

20% stiffer cranks-hmmmmmmmm--how many riders can flex a crank, I wonder. Since they are aluminum alloy wouldn't they quickly fail if they were subject to more than minimal flexing? Wouldn't a rider cause the tire to flex and/or slip before a stout piece of metal would flex? What was the last crank where you could cause to flex? C'mon, don't jive me. :)

[gasman]

I like the look better than the 7800 skilsaw cranks.

I know it's all personal and no matter what crank I have I'm not going to bend unless I put in a vice.

sheesh

[huey]

i like it alot, it appears so organic and raw. i believe that i'm seeing red in my future.

[Your_Friend!]

Shino!




Yes!

Very_Sexy!





Love,
Y_F!









Imho this is sculpture...Great design too.

[anomaly]

I think the cranks are god awful ugly.

[14max]

*

[jhcakilmer]

I like the look better than the 7800 skilsaw cranks.

I know it's all personal and no matter what crank I have I'm not going to bend unless I put in a vice.

sheesh


I'd definitely have to agree, aesthetically more appealing than the 7800. I can't really put my finger on exactly what, but seems more refined, not just a huge hunk of aluminum. The two tone color does accent the machine nicely.

Also, the levers do appear comfy, still look too narrow, but maybe I need to see more pics.

[RPS]

20% stiffer cranks-hmmmmmmmm--how many riders can flex a crank, I wonder. Since they are aluminum alloy wouldn't they quickly fail if they were subject to more than minimal flexing? Wouldn't a rider cause the tire to flex and/or slip before a stout piece of metal would flex? What was the last crank where you could cause to flex? C'mon, don't jive me. :)Notice manufacturers normally speak about making parts stiffer, but seldom mention whether they are stronger. I’d guess it’s because they can market stiffness as an improvement (albeit of questionable significance) but additional strength is of no value to riders unless the parts were breaking in the first place.

Revising a crank arm design to make it stiffer may or may not also make it stronger – these are two separate properties.

If a part is made stiffer while its strength is maintained exactly the same, the part can function under the same amount of applied force (like forces applied to pedals) except that it won’t flex as much. However, that part will have diminished capacity to withstand a shock load requiring it to absorb energy – as in a crash. Because of the part being stiffer, forces climb faster -- if flexed -- to the point of failure before the energy can be absorbed.

[ClutchCargo]

Imho this is sculpture...Great design too.

Shino!

No!

very_fugly !!!

_atmo!




p.s. but_that is what

makes_a horse

race_no?

[Ahneida Ride]

Trim is important ...

I am running a TA Zephyr Triple. My 2002 Record FD handles this
crank rather well.

I can always find a nice trip spot.

With no trim, one is married to SheManNo.

Hey ... I'm not liking the new Crampy stuff much either.

I can't ride a bike that I think looks like it's been designed by a Martian.

[palincss]

Shino!

No!

very_fugly !!!

_atmo!



+1

Now this is a good looking crankset.

[FMS_rider]

I hate the crank and like the shifters. Aesthetics matter only when the bike is sitting in your living room and you're looking at it. No one pays attention to the appearance of own bike's derailleurs, cranks, shifters, etc. while riding. So, the solution ... ride more. I'm afraid that, for me, aesthetics in the living room (sun room actually) are a huge factor --I derive a great deal of pleasure from just looking at my bikes. However if I switch from 7800 to 7900 (will try to resist but probably won't), it won't be for aesthetics because I love the look of 7800 on my Legend. If I do switch it will be motivated by an irresistable urge to play with new stuff, although I will keep telling myself it is because of the small functional advances, that I owe it to myself since I don't own a car, and bla bla bla. However I won't put either on my upcoming lugged steel bike, and will have to wait until the 7900 is offered in a triple before I can upgrade (thank God).

Lew

[IPH]

...f'ugly

[steve575]

Did they give a release date? Fall, I assume. I may have missed it.

[BdaGhisallo]

I hear mid October.

[sg8357]

As a cyclist I have two extra genes, one a sheep gene, so I can follow
on a group rides. The second gene is a magpie gene, so I like shiny things,
like TA Zephyrs, the new DA is ehhh, it doesn't make me want to swoop
down and pick it up. I do get Girlies point about the new DA aesthetic matching
the multishaped carbon bikes. A Cinelli SC looks good with old Campy
Super Record, skinny tubes and chrome look good with shiny, skinny
armed cranks etc.

Second point.

We spend a huge amount of time on the forum talking about bike fit,
then everyone puts one of two or three chainring combos on their
carefully custom fitted bike. Which is to say non-trimming front derailers
are dim*, Campy has it right, it may not be as fast and takes longer to
learn, but I can pick any rings and front derailer.

*I realize racers all need the same gearing, non-racers, tourists and randos
need different gearing and shifting system that can handle them cleanly.

Scott G.

[ThasFACE]

I was just looking at a picture of the shifters and, although I have already checked them out a few times, this was the first time I really 'saw' them... and it wasn't good. I like the cranks, but the shifters remind me of my old plasticy tonka trucks... which isn't so good for a precision/blingy piece like this.

I ride Campagnolo so it doesn't matter anyway, I guess.

[pdxmech13]

did anyone else notice competitive cyclist has prices and lead times up :p

[Acotts]

This is how I see it.

I will put Campy on my Legend Ti, my Bob Brown 593 Stainless, and my Pegoretti.

But this new Dura Ace this will go on my MeiVici, Crumpton, DeRosa and my other Pegoretti.

I will put Red on my RS, my Ottrott, and my Look.

[musgravecycles]

And which are you going to put on my Zero, inquiring minds and all...
;)

[Acotts]

And which are you going to put on my Zero, inquiring minds and all...
;)


Dang....thats kind of a stumper. I might lock The Jerk in a room and starve him for a couple days, give him a bottle of Scotch, stick him in the desert sun for 10 hours and see what he comes up with. I figure at that point he will be so cranky he will reach some sort of zen.

[Waldo]

So shut up and ride more and you will love the cranks and not care about the shifters;)

Yo, girlie, I am riding a double century this Saturday. My third of the year. You?

I don't like people telling me to shut up.

[EDS]

This is how I see it.

I will put Campy on my Legend Ti, my Bob Brown 593 Stainless, and my Pegoretti.

But this new Dura Ace this will go on my MeiVici, Crumpton, DeRosa and my other Pegoretti.

I will put Red on my RS, my Ottrott, and my Look.

What is going on your Calfee, Parlee and Vanilla? :)

[steve575]

This is how I see it.

I will put Campy on my Legend Ti, my Bob Brown 593 Stainless, and my Pegoretti.

But this new Dura Ace this will go on my MeiVici, Crumpton, DeRosa and my other Pegoretti.

I will put Red on my RS, my Ottrott, and my Look.


Me too.

[girlie]

Yo, girlie, I am riding a double century this Saturday. My third of the year. You?

I don't like people telling me to shut up.

what no credit for the ;)
I guess I'll shut up then.

No double centuries for me.......have fun and let me know if you love the cranks or care less about the shifter. BEST:)