Credit where credit is due

[William]

Too Tall
SteveP
eRICHIE (ATMO)
11.4
BigMac*
Zanc
dbrk
Grant
The Jerk
Steve Hampsten
Kirk Pacenti
Tom Kellogg
Dario
Cees
Ergott
Curt Goodrich
Sacha
Grant
Crumpton
(and a few others that my stick dented head can’t think of at the moment)

All industry insiders whose presence has seemed to dry up on the forum. Why is that?

First off: Thank you for all the time you folks have spent, and knowledge that you have happily shared over and over again….with wave after wave of newcomers. If one were to take the time and search the forum, “THE” definitive book of cycling technique, mechanics , accessories, and theory of frame building could be written. I’m not joking on that point. Just want to give credit where credit is due.

The forum will continue, but it is different. Not saying worse, just different.

Secondly: Why has their presence dried up? A few here and there I could understand. But all of them? Seems a little more than coincidental. I could be reading more into it than there is….entirely possible. But things that my Serotta “Deep Throat” has confirmed for me in the past (plus a few of my own experiences with behind the scenes heavy handedness) leads me to believe that there could be a little more behind it than just a disgruntled group deciding to leave. Funny how it coincided shortly after the new marketing teams arrival. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not. At this point it’s just a question floating around in my head (= speculation) since I haven’t talked to any of the guys personally since they left

In the words of SoCalSteve:

“Just sayin”


William

*BigMac’s departure predated all this, but his knowledge & presence is missed none the less.

**I include Dave Kirk in the "First off" paragraph.


http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2006/12/flame_suit.jpg

[rydesteel]

Brother William, I have spoken to one or two on the list. I think they got tired of all the Bull**** references to an elitism hierarchy of forumites. Unfortunately there are an equal number who stayed who are part of the uncool kids clique that played a major role in this. I will now hide behind the flame suit since it looks big enough to protect both. Oh and while this wont bother some it pains me to add our beloved forum is at risk of becoming a very plain

[paczki]

I think if you reexamine the list you'll see that many of them are still posting, maybe just a bit less. Curt Goodrich had to learn to paint!

[Fixed]

bro i think the pay for ad thing made them uneasy imho
cheers

[Mud]

I may not always like to tone of a replay or answer but knowledge is king. I think that a forum which had so many contributors that are world figures in their craft benefits although some of us never get the inside jokes.(How does E-Richie get time to build! No wonder it takes 6 years.)

But it is also their loss as well as the forum's since it is an outlet. Meanwhile, life is too short to worry about it right now and people will decide whether to post or not.

I used to be close to a bike company which went from being the elite of boutique mountain bikes to mass marketing. Everything changed including the product, but more importantly it lost its image of being unique (and boutique). As Andre says "Image is Everything" and it will be interesting to see where all of this is going. :confused:

[Tom]

I dunno about the cool kids/elitism business causing a list of people like William compiled there to simultaneously become fed up and split. I have no idea what transpired, but I doubt it was a dozen people independently coming to the same conclusion at the same time. Either it was amongst themselves or from without. Yo, S_P, got any insight you willing to share?

I gotta get to work. My real job is computers, not trying to figure out group psychology.

[Fixed]

I gotta get to work. My real job is computers, not trying to figure out group psychology.
swoop where are you
cheers

[Kevan]

it's about the bike and its rider. I hope, and suspect, everyone will evetually return. The frame of the forum may have been scuffed in this fall, but it is still ridable. People will come with new stories, new routes in life to share, and an appreciation for what this collective is all about.

Don't be so quick to switch into the small ring, maintain the momentum.

[Smiley]

William, I don't read into this too much more then a bunch of folks taking a break. If they return fine, if not there will be new folks seeking and dispensing wisdom here. Things always change, for the better or worse, its up to oneself to figure that out. I still wish for the good old days of the 70's and 80's, free sex and dope if you recall, that is not happening again.

[Kevan]

...free sex and dope...

did Sandy move away?

[paczki]

did Sandy move away?

Now that's the spirit :banana: :banana: :banana:

[majorpat]

From the fount of all knowledge, wikipedia:

The sum and substance of cool is a self-conscious aplomb in overall behavior, which entails a set of specific behavioral characteristics that is firmly anchored in symbology, a set of discernible bodily movements, postures, facial expressions and voice modulations that are acquired and take on strategic social value within the peer context.[3]
Cool was once an attitude fostered by rebels and underdogs, such as slaves, prisoners, bikers and political dissents, etc., for whom open rebellion invited punishment, so it hid its defiance behind a wall of ironic detachment, distancing itself from the source of authority rather than directly confronting it.

I know that I'm not cool because I am not "ironically detached"...I mean, here I am, on the forum!

[Fixed]

William, I don't read into this too much more then a bunch of folks taking a break. If they return fine, if not there will be new folks seeking and dispensing wisdom here. Things always change, for the better or worse, its up to oneself to figure that out. I still wish for the good old days of the 70's and 80's, free sex and dope if you recall, that is not happening again.
I like this cat and he's fixed too don't go anywhere bro
imho
cheers

[cadence231]

It all rather bugs me. I still laugh out loud at posts just not as much as when all the above were here.
I find it really odd from a business propective. I bought some sachstoys from richie simply because he piqued my interest with his wit etc. I even came close a couple of times to calling him and putting my deposit down on a frame. Why these folks would jepordize this kind of exposure is beyond me.

pssssst....I saw Too Tall post on the Hammer http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m131/cadence220/koolaid.gif

[Tobias]

All industry insiders whose presence has seemed to dry up on the forum. Why is that?Call me a skeptic, but aren't many still posting under different names?

[Tobias]

Unfortunately there are an equal number who stayed who are part of the uncool kids clique that played a major role in this. :confused: :confused:
:confused: :confused:
I don't join cliques therefore your answer won't affect me.
So I ask, why not be direct and name names?

[Mud]

:confused: :confused:
:confused: :confused:
I don't join cliques therefore your answer won't affect me.
So I ask, why not be direct and name names?

Life goes on. People can always hit the "off" button if they choose.

[Ken Robb]

Call me a skeptic, but aren't many still posting under different names?

Rats--you found me out. I am really e-Richie so send me $2000 and I'll put you on my Insiders' Wait List. You should get your frame in only 3 years. My new policy requires a payment of $1000 every 6 months until your frame is delivered.

Chester has been nice but I'm moving my business to a beachfront palace on Seven Mile Beach on Grand Cayman due to tax and banking considerations and the advice of my attorney. Keep this quiet as I haven't told Deb yet. :D

[znfdl]

I still wish for the good old days of the 70's and 80's, free sex and dope if you recall, that is not happening again.

Isn't there going to be a new TV series that focuses on those grand times. I remember what I can of those times and what I do remember always brings a smile to my face.

[92degrees]

Call me a skeptic, but aren't many still posting under different names?


There are 9 people on this forum. Total.

[Wimpy]

There are 9 people on this forum. Total.


And I'm 3 of them!

[paczki]

And I'm 3 of them!

Is that you Roman?

[Tom]

And I'm 3 of them!

I'm seven of them.

[92degrees]

There's overlap I'm told...some usernames are more than one person.

[Tobias]

Why does it matter?We should value opinions based on their merits, which means we shouldn’t place too much emphasis on their origins. If the cool cats want to post under different names it won’t matter much to me other than it causes confusion.

Much of it is childish and I have better things to worry about.

[PBWrench]

The Forum is blowin' in the wind:

[93legendti]

What the f happened? I go away for 2 weeks and there's no more talk about the difference between cyclists and bike riders?

[Louis]

What the f happened? I go away for 2 weeks and there's no more talk about the difference between cyclists and bike riders?

If you have to ask, then you clearly don't belong at this lunch table. :cool:

[Fixed]

What the f happened? I go away for 2 weeks and there's no more talk about the difference between cyclists and bike riders?
it is all your fault you go to the holy lands and all hell breaks out here ..
just kidding ....
cheers bro

[Mikej]

Are workin' since its bike industry season. Sorta like nice weather = need a new bike?

[Climb01742]

*BigMac’s departure predated all this, but his knowledge & presence is missed none the less.




i wonder if this is a BigMac sighting:

http://uk.messages.eurosport.yahoo.com/Cycling/threadview?m=tm&bn=UKS-CY-general&tid=613&mid=614&tof=8&rt=1&frt=1&off=1

[Tom]

That was good. I almost choked on my cookie.

[M.Sommers]

My main concern is this...those who left miss me. I've had trouble sleeping lately. I feel like a million voices all cried out at once and were suddenly silenced. That's no moon, that's a bike forum!

:D

[93legendti]

it is all your fault you go to the holy lands and all hell breaks out here ..
just kidding ....
cheers bro

Hey, it's ok, I blame myself for it. If I was here I would have been a lightening rod and all those guys would still be here... :)

But please don't say "holy land", someone might get offended.

[William]

i wonder if this is a BigMac sighting:

http://uk.messages.eurosport.yahoo.com/Cycling/threadview?m=tm&bn=UKS-CY-general&tid=613&mid=614&tof=8&rt=1&frt=1&off=1


Can it be??? :confused:

Is that the BM??? :confused:

You distract him "J" man, I'll get the burlap sack. It's time for hime to come home. :D





William

[ClutchCargo]

Hey, it's ok, I blame myself for it. If I was here I would have been a lightening rod and all those guys would still be here... :)

But please don't say "holy land", someone might get offended.

hey, how could they? ... he said it in english :rolleyes:




ride on!

[EDS]

Too Tall
SteveP
eRICHIE (ATMO)
11.4
BigMac*
Zanc
dbrk
Grant
The Jerk
Steve Hampsten
Kirk Pacenti
Tom Kellogg
Dario
Cees
Ergott
Curt Goodrich
Sacha
Grant
Crumpton
(and a few others that my stick dented head can’t think of at the moment)

All industry insiders whose presence has seemed to dry up on the forum. Why is that?

First off: Thank you for all the time you folks have spent, and knowledge that you have happily shared over and over again….with wave after wave of newcomers. If one were to take the time and search the forum, “THE” definitive book of cycling technique, mechanics , accessories, and theory of frame building could be written. I’m not joking on that point. Just want to give credit where credit is due.

The forum will continue, but it is different. Not saying worse, just different.

Secondly: Why has their presence dried up? A few here and there I could understand. But all of them? Seems a little more than coincidental. I could be reading more into it than there is….entirely possible. But things that my Serotta “Deep Throat” has confirmed for me in the past (plus a few of my own experiences with behind the scenes heavy handedness) leads me to believe that there could be a little more behind it than just a disgruntled group deciding to leave. Funny how it coincided shortly after the new marketing teams arrival. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not. At this point it’s just a question floating around in my head (= speculation) since I haven’t talked to any of the guys personally since they left

In the words of SoCalSteve:

“Just sayin”


William

*BigMac’s departure predated all this, but his knowledge & presence is missed none the less.

**I include Dave Kirk in the "First off" paragraph.


http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2006/12/flame_suit.jpg

That does seem like a pretty serious brain drain on the forum if those dudes are on the outs.

As a complete nobody in the bicycle world, one of the things that made this forum interesting to me (other then the fact that I own a Serotta) is the amount of knowledge and number of insiders that participated in the conversations.

[Acotts]

Next thing you know, this place will look like the Look forum. You should check that place out. All they talk about are Look bikes and pedals. Its crazy.

Those bikes aren't steel. They dont look good with a Brooks on 'em and they aren't even CUSTOM!!!! What can they possible talk about?

talk about staring into the darkside of bike forums.

[Jack Brunk]

Maybe someone should ask Tiffany at Serotta to explain what happened to most of the people that are listed in william's posting. I think she owes it to the forum.

[fiamme red]

Maybe someone should ask Tiffany at Serotta to explain what happened to most of the people that are listed in william's posting. I think she owes it to the forum.She should invite them over one morning in order to work out their differences.

"Breakfast at Tiffany's." :rolleyes: :) :p

[53-11]

Maybe someone should ask Tiffany at Serotta to explain what happened to most of the people that are listed in william's posting. I think she owes it to the forum.

Serotta Tiffany has 0 posts... I think that well is empty for information

[Wimpy]

Maybe someone should ask Tiffany at Serotta to explain what happened to most of the people that are listed in william's posting. I think she owes it to the forum.

Sounds like you have a little "inside information".

Has someone made their conversation with Tiff semi public?

[M.Sommers]

Maybe someone should ask Tiffany at Serotta to explain what happened to most of the people that are listed in william's posting. I think she owes it to the forum.

I do not know Tiffany, but I recall I posted a few weeks ago my thoughts on business, the industry, pressure, marketing, sales...and how the buttons (aka people) which are pushed, are pushed from the top. The tippy top. There were lots of Captains in Amity, but only one Quint:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=5909520

I'll never put a life jacket on.

:beer:

[fierte_poser]

Sounds like you have a little "inside information".

Has someone made their conversation with Tiff semi public?

This is all so intriguing. <grabbing popcorn>

Did anyone sign a NDA? Spill the beans, yo! :beer:

Who is Tiffany and what does she know about cycling?

[Louis]

Maybe someone should ask Tiffany at Serotta to explain what happened to most of the people that are listed in william's posting. I think she owes it to the forum.

I think that either 1) they (the powers that be at Serotta) don't care that those folks have gone, or 2) they are happy that those folks have gone.

Either way, I don't think that they are broken up about it.

[Jack Brunk]

I think that either 1) they (the powers that be at Serotta) don't care that those folks have gone, or 2) they are happy that those folks have gone.

Either way, I don't think that they are broken up about it.
You are probably correct.

[M.Sommers]

I think that either 1) they (the powers that be at Serotta) don't care that those folks have gone, or 2) they are happy that those folks have gone. Either way, I don't think that they are broken up about it.

...Which is politics in motion. Fait accompli. Lure em' in and inject some stricnine nitrate EPO. It was overlooked, but it was Mrs. Kitner who initially placed the bounty on the shark, $3K which could snag a nice Fierte. She didn't care about the shark until little Alex was gone. Mayor Vaughn didn't care until it was his son who was in the pond with the shark. SNIMBY.

For William:

http://www.exposure.co.uk/eejit/3act/sharkattack.html

[shinomaster]

I think the Zen from Ben was the last straw for some persons. One frame builder said as much to me...I kinda agree.
If you think back this isn't the first time the same cats all got up and left at once. They did of course come back. This time I believe some, like e-Ritchie, will sadly choose to stay away. I know that Zank is real busy making bikes. Some, I think will choose to follow the herd to where ever it goes.

[Louis]

I think the Zen from Ben was the last straw for some persons.

I agree that that was the biggee. All the pissing and moaning about the so-called "cabal," well, I think they could have lived with that.

[happycampyer]

2/3/59, and now, 4/4/08...

[jeffg]

I think the Zen from Ben was the last straw for some persons. One frame builder said as much to me...I kinda agree.
If you think back this isn't the first time the same cats all got up and left at once. They did of course come back. This time I believe some, like e-Ritchie, will sadly choose to stay away. I know that Zank is real busy making bikes. Some, I think will choose to follow the herd to where ever it goes.

Yes, but this only applies to some folks on this list.

Tom Kellog posted recently (today?), 11.4 and dbrk have been "active" in the past day or so, but I think folks such as E-Richie and Swoop are gone.

I would not have been so interested in Zen from Ben except that it now seems like a pure provocation to a few given that it none has been posted recently so it is not for the benefit of the general forum membership, I would think ... that is a shame

[shanerpvt]

i wish those dudes were still here. if anyone knows where they are hangin, spill the beans. i always have another window on my browser.

i haven't seen pete post much lately either. lots of great people still here, but things are a changin.

:beer:
shaner

[shinomaster]

Yes, but this only applies to some folks on this list.

Tom Kellog posted recently (today?), 11.4 and dbrk have been "active" in the past day or so, but I think folks such as E-Richie and Swoop are gone.

I would not have been so interested in Zen from Ben except that it now seems like a pure provocation to a few given that it none has been posted recently so it is not for the benefit of the general forum membership, I would think ... that is a shame



To me the Zen from Ben was a bit passive aggressive. That's just my take. It was a strange way to say hello.. Not all the cool people have left. I think Swoop unfortunately wanted the forum to be something that it wasn't or couldn't be. It is the Serotta forum, and always has been. If this whole forum could have moved to neutral space that might have been better.

[jmp]

Maybe someone should ask Tiffany at Serotta to explain what happened to most of the people that are listed in william's posting. I think she owes it to the forum.

What say you Tiffany? Ben? Pete? ...anyone?

[Bud_E]

i wish those dudes were still here. if anyone knows where they are hangin, spill the beans. i always have another window on my browser.

i haven't seen pete post much lately either. lots of great people still here, but things are a changin.

:beer:
shaner

+1. Whatever you may think about those guys personally (and I thought they were really good guys) , they definitely livened this place up. On the other hand, now I'm more productive at work.

[Darrell]

just get on your bikes more
ride harder
get more tired from the riding
sleep more and read good books
and eat whole some un processed foods and then you will do a good dump three times a day
Life is good if you're still able to ride your bike.
and check the forums when you feel free

it's lugs
it's steel
let the others get on with the madness
you know I am right.

[mflaherty37]

so be it

what i think deserves more credit is the ciii
ATMO

[Mud]

I still think my earlier point about direction is correct. How does a builder who has long waiting times for his bikes directly benefit from the forum? To me 6 weeks is forever much less 2,3, 4 years or beyond. Listening to what people (competition?) is saying builds a better product,

Tom Kellogg was mentioned. His waiting time is reasonable. He builds a great bike. Serotta benefits from people trying his product and choosing Serotta, or not. But maybe they would not have tried Serotta at all.

Any product has to stand on its own merits. Discussion and criticism of the product will take place regardless. I remember when Ellsworth was getting a lot of heat over breakage Tony had the guts to get on the MTBR forum and hash it out. I am not saying he made people happy but maybe people took another look at the product after the discussions.

Maybe those mentioned will return at some point or others will come. In any case the forum will continue as long as it allows people to participate as they please, not as it pleases Serotta. Then the next group will go, but the process will always be the same.

The weather in NJ is iffy tomorrow. My Nimble wheels are back on my bike after vacationing at Alchemy for a while (Thanks Jeremy). My 2006 Record 52/39 crank is on a raft crossing the Atlantic and should arrive sometime before the next millenium, and I am ready to ride. :banana:

[Ahneida Ride]

"The only constant in life is change."


I'll miss the distilled wisdom ...
I still can't figure out exactly what happened ...

The Phorum really helps out Newbies like me.

[Fixed]

be thankful for the masters we have still mr smith is a cool cat too
..but i am sad cos e richie was my hero a cat who has been doin this for a long time and still has a fire burning inside of him for bikes ..imho that is a labor of love and that is cool all my work clothes are sachs stuff i wear a sachs t everyday ...if he said your bike needed to be this or that i wouldn't ask why i would just do it.. he has earned the right to be called a master ..imho :beer:
cheers

[vaxn8r]

be thankful for the masters we have still mr smith is a cool cat too
..but i am sad cos e richie was my hero a cat who has been doin this for a long time and still has a fire burning inside of him for bikes ..imho that is a labor of love and that is cool all my work clothes are sachs stuff i wear a sachs t everyday ...if he said your bike needed to be this or that i wouldn't ask why i would just do it.. he has earned the right to be called a master ..imho :beer:
cheers
POTD. ATMO.

+1

[rounder]

Those guys are masters because they live and breathe bikes. Maybe they found another or built another site to hang out at. Either way, they will not abandon bike folks who want to buy their bikes or parts. That wouldn't make any sense. My stupid guess is that something made them all leave at the same time and for the same reason. There are lots of smart people here who raise interesting ideas and make interesting posts. Especially love all the OT posts in the winter. But when it came to bikestuff, nobody could discuss it as intelligently or with as much insight as the masters.

[Louis]

...if he said your bike needed to be this or that i wouldn't ask why i would just do it..

Maybe I'm perverse, maybe I just like to understand the world, but I would ask why and I would expect to get an answer that made sense. I think a builder also owes his or her customers some respect and with that respect should come some justification for his decisions. Otherwise, its just the TRUTH being delivered from on high, and I don't think that that's good long-term business model.

Louis

[kgreene10]

I really enjoyed e-richie and others' posts too, but people get sidetracked, busy, have moods, get irked, etc. There are a million non-diabolical reasons for someone to take a posting vacation.

Why not work it from our end and send a love letter of sorts -- a "we miss you" note to those now absent. I nominate the poet with the highest number of posts to do it -- Fixed?

[Sacha White]

I really enjoyed e-richie and others' posts too, but people get sidetracked, busy, have moods, get irked, etc. There are a million non-diabolical reasons for someone to take a posting vacation.

Why not work it from our end and send a love letter of sorts -- a "we miss you" note to those now absent. I nominate the poet with the highest number of posts to do it -- Fixed?

I don't know about the others, but I have been away in Vagenland and haven't had any extra brain space for the internets. It's as simple as that.

That's not to say that I don't like love letters, though. :beer: :beer: :beer:

[Your_Friend!]

I don't know about the others, but I have been away in Vagenland and haven't had any extra brain space for the internets. It's as simple as that.

That's not to say that I don't like love letters, though. :beer: :beer: :beer:




Sacha:


For The_Joy

You Share!

A Thousand

Amorous_Missives!




Love,
Y_F!

[shinomaster]

Sacha, I'll drop by with a picnic basket and some good beaujolais. I found some really cute unicorn stickers today at Finnegan's too.

[happycampyer]

Whew! And last night I was about to post the following to make a little more sense of my last post:

And in the streets, the fixies track-stood,
The builders T-I-Ged and fillet braze-ed,
But not an atmo was spoken,
The keyboards all were broken.
And the three men I admired most
Sasha, Kirk and the Holy Atmost
Stopped pedaling (or was that peddling to some?)
And decided to coast
The day the Forum died.

[PBWrench]

Bye bye, Miss your steel and ti.

[Ginger]

So...at least two builders posted up on the thread, Darrell and Sacha and Mr. Kirk and Mr. Kellog are around....so what's that about the builders being scared away? I haven't really noticed them posting any less than usual.
As Sacha points out...there's this thing called work.

Not all work consists of sitting in front of a computer all day and surfing the Serotta forum (no builder does that, but people who think they notice that a builder hasn't posted in the last 10 seconds...maybe they do). It's also almost summer, people are out riding their bikes, going on vacation, and in general not glued in front of their computer. So much for conspiracy theories.

We get this every spring. Just like we get over-angst in mid winter.

[Climb01742]

if anyone at serotta believes that this forum, or the serotta brand, is better off without the missing voices, well, they're idiots.

but they have every right to be idiots, and do idiotic, destructive things to their brand. in the end, they will lose more than any of us will lose.

[Ginger]

if anyone at serotta believes that this forum, or the serotta brand, is better off without the missing voices, well, they're idiots.

but they have every right to be idiots, and do idiotic, destructive things to their brand. in the end, they will lose more than any of us will lose.

That's right Climb. Only the stupid people are left here on the forum. ;)

[Climb01742]

That's right Climb. Only the stupid people are left here on the forum. ;)

you know that's not what i said. :rolleyes:

[David Kirk]

That's right Climb. Only the stupid people are left here on the forum. ;)

I highly resemble that statement.

Have a good weekend all. See you next week.

Dave

[barry1021]

So...at least two builders posted up on the thread, Darrell and Sacha and Mr. Kirk and Mr. Kellog are around....so what's that about the builders being scared away? I haven't really noticed them posting any less than usual.
As Sacha points out...there's this thing called work.

Not all work consists of sitting in front of a computer all day and surfing the Serotta forum (no builder does that, but people who think they notice that a builder hasn't posted in the last 10 seconds...maybe they do). It's also almost summer, people are out riding their bikes, going on vacation, and in general not glued in front of their computer. So much for conspiracy theories.

We get this every spring. Just like we get over-angst in mid winter.

is a +10,000. It's nice to read from Mr. Kirk, but you know what?? It's 1000x better to ride a bike he built. Just sayin' :banana:

b21

b21

[rwsaunders]

I don't know about the others, but I have been away in Vagenland and haven't had any extra brain space for the internets. It's as simple as that.

That's not to say that I don't like love letters, though. :beer: :beer: :beer:

Thanks goodness it wasn't Veganland, Sacha. :cool:

[rwsaunders]

That's right Climb. Only the stupid people are left here on the forum. ;)

Hey wait a minute....

[Dave]

Personally, I've enjoyed the absence of all the responses written in riddles and every other word being atmo. It gets old after awhile. I try to write factual responses that are concise and understandable, but they are not as fun to read. I'll be around because I have nothing better to do.

[Fixed]

Personally, I've enjoyed the absence of all the responses written in riddles and every other word being atmo. It gets old after awhile. I try to write factual responses that are concise and understandable, but they are not as fun to read. I'll be around because I have nothing better to do.

I always like your post cos you are one smart cat in my book
cheers imho

[William]

...
For William:

http://www.exposure.co.uk/eejit/3act/sharkattack.html


Leggit!!!! :cool:



I didn't include DK in the list since I know he's been around and I would still consider him Serotta family (no negative intended in that statement). So we have three folks from the list posting. Three down, 16 to go....


Have a great weekend folks!! :banana:


William

[BumbleBeeDave]

Personally, I've enjoyed the absence of all the responses written in riddles and every other word being atmo. It gets old after awhile.

. . . but I really found this thread interesting. I agree all the nested links, riddles, sarcastic picture responses, and messages written in inside language or 1's and 0's got old--REALLY old.

I've worked at the same newspaper and lived in my community now for 16 years. During that time I've followed our city government and community affairs in stories read almost every day over that time. I've always noticed that over the years whenever there's a community or local government controversy, it's strange how the same few names keep popping up in the middle of these stories all the time. Some individuals are positive catalysts--great leaders--and inspire people in great ways. but you don't often see their names. Other individuals are the opposite. They inspire people the other way. It seems to me the same here--and the ones who were causing most of the problems were certainly not the ones on William's list.

All I really know, though, is that the last 4 weeks or so I've been signing onto the forum looking forward to what I might learn. That's far different from the previous months, when I signed on to see what innocent thread had blown up into rancor and flames most recently. It's a very refreshing change.

BBD

[morty]

I try to write factual responses that are concise and understandable, but they are not as fun to read.
Agree with Fixed you are one knowledgeable guy, and I enjoy reading all your posts. Thanks, and keep up the good work!

[M.Sommers]

We get this every spring. Just like we get over-angst in mid winter.

Self-fulfilling prophecy? There's a lot of paint on the large brush you just wiped across this thread; it seems many are expressing multiple concerns about how/why/what really happened? Many are asking legit questions which have credibility, substance and dimension. Merely stating, "Meh, it was a lunar-moon-mood thing based on astrology, NASA, swoop's new hair style and recent secada infiltration in the Northeastern North America" is perhaps, unfair.

cliffnotes: credible members who have been here a very long time are simply asking, what seems to be not so simple questions.

supercliffnotes: mega-politics recently took place and constituents are holding their chad.

[TAW]

. . . but I really found this thread interesting. I agree all the nested links, riddles, sarcastic picture responses, and messages written in inside language or 1's and 0's got old--REALLY old.

I've worked at the same newspaper and lived in my community now for 16 years. During that time I've followed our city government and community affairs in stories read almost every day over that time. I've always noticed that over the years whenever there's a community or local government controversy, it's strange how the same few names keep popping up in the middle of these stories all the time. Some individuals are positive catalysts--great leaders--and inspire people in great ways. but you don't often see their names. Other individuals are the opposite. They inspire people the other way. It seems to me the same here--and the ones who were causing most of the problems were certainly not the ones on William's list.

All I really know, though, is that the last 4 weeks or so I've been signing onto the forum looking forward to what I might learn. That's far different from the previous months, when I signed on to see what innocent thread had blown up into rancor and flames most recently. It's a very refreshing change.

BBD

I agree with this. There are still MANY people who are not "heroes" but have a wealth of knowledge from the experience of riding who are still a part of this board and have been for many years. BBD is one of them.

Thanks!

[Dekonick]

is a +10,000. It's nice to read from Mr. Kirk, but you know what?? It's 1000x better to ride a bike he built. Just sayin' :banana:

b21

b21

I love checking his website to see the new eye candy as it is posted...beautiful work.

[William]

I agree with this. There are still MANY people who are not "heroes" but have a wealth of knowledge from the experience of riding who are still a part of this board and have been for many years. BBD is one of them.

Thanks!

I can agree with this as well. Though I don't know where you're coming up with the term "heroes"? It was not a term I used in the OP nor was it implied IMO.




William

[Dekonick]

It would be nice to hear more from our host, but I'll bet he is one busy man.

So far let's not forget all Ben has brought to the table -

He is not just a craftsman, but an industry innovator as well. His contributions are many:

Colorado concept tubing
proper fit via fit cycle and certification program
DKS suspension (unfortunately, no longer available :crap: )
first that I know of to use custon lugs with carbon to achieve custom frame geo's (Ottrott)
first to use custom carbon lugs for that same purpose
designed improved carbon forks - starting with F1
Heads UP!

There are many more that I am not aware of.

For this, I think Ben is entitled to credit where credit is due. :beer:

[Ginger]

...
cliffnotes: credible members who have been here a very long time are simply asking, what seems to be not so simple questions.
...
My point is that quite a bit of this thread seems to be a finger pointing exercise not a community building exercise.

[hansolo758]

I don't know why some people left. It might have been nice, if some folks felt slighted, to have had this explored. Perhaps we would have been able to come to some accommodation that might have made everybody reasonably happy. If the remarks about self-promotion hit a nerve, it might have been nice to have had that expressed. For myself, I think the builders here have been scrupulous not to do that. At the same time, the forum hosts have the right to determine the content -- they are ultimately responsible for deciding how much the risk of alienating some people is offset by the benefit of keeping others here. Ultimately, it's a free country and people will vote with their keyboards.

It's nonetheless been very interesting for me to read that regardless of how it might be now, many folks found the forum as it was before not all together perfect, either.

So what does all that mean? To me, it means the forum evolves. As one of the posters who appears to have left may have said (were he here), "It isn't necessarily better or worse, it is what it is." In the absence of discussion from the involved parties what's most important is that we who are here now continue to contribute and make the forum something we enjoy and find useful. There are enough quality people still left here for that to happen.

[BumbleBeeDave]

I can agree with this as well. Though I don't know where you're coming up with the term "heroes"? It was not a term I used in the OP nor was it implied IMO.

William


. . . has been so devalued over the past 10 or so years, particularly since 9/11. There are no grenades going off here for us to throw ourselves on to save our buddies. There are no small children to be rescued out of wells or hordes on menacing enemy troops to be captured single-handedly. There's just a bunch of people sharing knowledge and fellowship and learning from each other.

I just kind of feel like over the past months it sometimes takes a heroic effort to speak up and say anything vaguely revealing or personal in nature or that might disagree with any of those who have departed. The price for that was often replies that were at times caustic, belittling, or at the very least, dripping passive-aggressiveness. Could I cite specific examples? Of course, if I wanted to spend the rest of the afternoon doing searches and re-reading threads--which I'm not going to waste time doing. The specific examples have left my memory, but what stayed was the impression that the efforts of a small percentage had made this someplace I didn't really want to spend a lot of time in anymore. The last month or so--since whatever "exodus" you want to call it has happened--have been different. It's a place I like spending time in again. I can sit down and listen and maybe speak up once in a while and not worry about getting my shoes peed on anymore.

BBD

[M.Sommers]

My point is that quite a bit of this thread seems to be a finger pointing exercise not a community building exercise.

Like the threads and posts which attacked swoop, e-RICHIE and certain frame builders?

(I'm trying to be fair, it's my nature).

(and I'm not arguing with you).

:beer:

[Fixed]

hero sports hero never had one i have never not had one
cheers

imho it is one that goes somewhere not many want or can go

[Sandy]

It would be nice to hear more from our host, but I'll bet he is one busy man.

So far let's not forget all Ben has brought to the table -

He is not just a craftsman, but an industry innovator as well. His contributions are many:

Colorado concept tubing
proper fit via fit cycle and certification program
DKS suspension (unfortunately, no longer available :crap: )
first that I know of to use custon lugs with carbon to achieve custom frame geo's (Ottrott)
first to use custom carbon lugs for that same purpose
designed improved carbon forks - starting with F1
Heads UP!

There are many more that I am not aware of.

For this, I think Ben is entitled to credit where credit is due. :beer:

Another contribution- S-bend chainstays.
Most significant contibution of all- Serotta Sandy....ok...forget that one... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Sandy

PS- We need to do a ride. I have your number.

[Pete Serotta]

I have thought hard on whether to reply and if so how.

Let me just say that I have personally talked to Richard on the phone and via email this past week. Have also talked to SWOOP via email.

Nobody from SEROTTA (or myself) requested anything from Richard, Swoop, or anyone else.

I consider Richard a friend and a wealth of knowledge. He in no way tried to market his product here. In fact, I can not think of a single builder posting that in ANY WAY used the forum as a marketing tool.

Why folks went off the forum - your guess is as mine.

I still recall BIG MAC and the value he added here in the beginning - after all these years I still miss his input on bike and motorcycles.


Off to have some ice tea and walk the LAB,

[shinomaster]

.

[capybaras]

Only the stupid people are left here on the forum. ;)
:banana: :banana: :banana:

[Ahneida Ride]

I have thought hard on whether to reply and if so how.

Let me just say that I have personally talked to Richard on the phone and via email this past week. Have also talked to SWOOP via email.

Nobody from SEROTTA (or myself) requested anything from Richard, Swoop, or anyone else.

I consider Richard a friend and a wealth of knowledge. He in no way tried to market his product here. In fact, I can not think of a single builder posting that in ANY WAY used the forum as a marketing tool.

Why folks went off the forum - your guess is as mine.

I still recall BIG MAC and the value he added here in the beginning - after all these years I still miss his input on bike and motorcycles.



Yea Pete .... I just don't understand either. I never envisioned any builder
using the Serotta Phorum to push his ware.

Hey .... If anyone is abusing the privilege of posting here, it's me.

[Ahneida Ride]

Let's not forget Dave Kirk's participation in all those cool Serotta Innovations.

The DKS is probably the most innovative concept ever.

[paczki]

The DKS is probably the most innovative concept ever.

Not the frn?

[shanerpvt]

.

yo shino, that's my favorite one yet.

here's to you :beer: ,
shaner

[William]

...Which is politics in motion. Fait accompli. Lure em' in and inject some stricnine nitrate EPO. It was overlooked, but it was Mrs. Kitner who initially placed the bounty on the shark, $3K which could snag a nice Fierte. She didn't care about the shark until little Alex was gone. Mayor Vaughn didn't care until it was his son who was in the pond with the shark. SNIMBY.

For William:

http://www.exposure.co.uk/eejit/3act/sharkattack.html


For M.Sommers....when you want shark+

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh7bYNAHXxw




William

[Fixed]

well bro i would like to thank the ladies of the forum without their help i would have never gotten mrs fixed 's bike setup to where she was comfy ..they knew exactly what needed to be done ..since i am not a bike shop cat i only knew what works for me and that was not happening for the mrs . now she is happy .so thank you
cheers :beer:

[shinomaster]

Hey we still have Jack Brunk, and that's worth a lot $$$.

[paczki]

.

That is awesome.

[Ahneida Ride]

Not the frn?

you are correct my dear sir .....

Took me welll over a year to figure out the frn.

[MarleyMon]

I don't know about the others, but I have been away in Vagenland ...
Hey wasn't swoop getting a Speedvagen?
I bet he's been riding the hell out of it.

[M.Sommers]

.

OMFG. I clicked on this thread while eating dinner (a wet hamburger as it was raining on my bbq) read the last page, backed up a page, scrolled upwards, read were shanerpvt wrote, "yo shino, that's my favorite one yet" and wondered what he meant....scrolled upwards and then spat hamburger/ketchup onto my keyboard.

Shino, that picture is ****ing srsly funny. :banana:

[BumbleBeeDave]

....scrolled upwards and then spat hamburger/ketchup onto my keyboard.

. . . a keyboard condom. They sell them at Condomputerland stores . . . :rolleyes:

BBD

[M.Sommers]

For M.Sommers....when you want shark+

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh7bYNAHXxw




William

Dear William,

I want to come over, eat shrimp, crab cakes, baked clams, poached salmon, grilled mako and watch JAWS and these two movies too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4d74eYeyww

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce2RBu9b1XQ&feature=related

Then we can get together with the family and all sing together:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEETL5KcJ10



Bro, this is cool, worth watching:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMiZ1xwPm2w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qjgGid4M0o&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUIcGBEjaEg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_W1kPcApR0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_00K8Yi08o&feature=related

Regards,
M.Sommers

[shinomaster]

OMFG. I clicked on this thread while eating dinner (a wet hamburger as it was raining on my bbq) read the last page, backed up a page, scrolled upwards, read were shanerpvt wrote, "yo shino, that's my favorite one yet" and wondered what he meant....scrolled upwards and then spat hamburger/ketchup onto my keyboard.

Shino, that picture is ****ing srsly funny. :banana:



What?? I'm confused.. :confused:

[shanerpvt]

What?? I'm confused.. :confused:

we both thought your Penguin Trooper was tops!

:beer:
shaner

[shinomaster]

we both thought your Penguin Trooper was tops!

:beer:
shaner


He's the sheriff in cyber town.

[M.Sommers]

What?? I'm confused.. :confused:

I read the thread backwards, from the last page...saw shaner's comment...continued eating hamburger...scrolled up...saw a Penguin Trooper Model TK421 and spat ground beef.

:beer:

[cadence90]

Too Tall
SteveP
eRICHIE (ATMO)
11.4
BigMac
Zanc
dbrk
Grant
The Jerk
Steve Hampsten
Kirk Pacenti
Tom Kellogg
Dario
Cees
Ergott
Curt Goodrich
Sacha
Grant
Crumpton
Dave Kirk
(and a few others that my stick dented head can’t think of at the moment)

With all due respect to the OP and to the great lessons imparted here by these terrific builders, to put these names in a list so narrowly defined seems a little absurd, sorry.

These people have "left" at different times and for very different reasons, certainly, and not as some en-masse boycott that I can see.

The reasons for these people's lack of presence here are as myriad as their personalities, skills, interactions, AND as varied as the personalities of the forum members still here, I'm pretty sure....They probably even put their pants (or dresses) on one leg at a time....


Just statin' the obvious I guess....

[Dekonick]

Let's not forget Dave Kirk's participation in all those cool Serotta Innovations.

The DKS is probably the most innovative concept ever.


HECK YES!!!!

Oh - speaking of DKS...

I rode my fixed DKS today - and managed not to kill myself, despite being just a bike rider, hit 34mph downhill on a 42 x 17 - total of 29 miles. It was fantastic. Much better ride than the Surly Crosscheck that was my fixie (although that bike is a great ride for a fantastic price!)

Of my 3 Serotta's, 2 are Hors Cat's.

I just wish they were still available. I would spring for an Ottrott DKS.

Thanks Dave for the magic!

Thanks Ben for the guts to allow DK to make it.

Thanks Ahneida for the leather wrap on that same DKS fixie... MAKE MORE DEMMIT!

This place still rocks. :banana:

[William]

Man, I've already moved on...contrary to some posters infrences. No pity party here. I said what I wanted to say, thanked those that I felt should be thanked, and clearly pointed out:

""The forum will continue, but it is different. Not saying worse, just different.""

If the cats come back to play...Great! :cool: If not, we'll have fun anyway. Such is life, but I'm already moving forward.



William


PS: I've already stated that I was forgetting some people...and that I feel that everyone has something to contribute and have never said otherwise on this forum.

PPS: Hey Deko.... http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=46408 :D

[majorpat]

But really, I too am OK with whatever this forum is, past, present and future.

I'm not a framebuilder, not a particularly fast or competitive rider, don't have a collection of NOS French pedals nor a 650B bike. I am however a fan of this forum and will stick it out...what else am I gonna do?

The forum is like an itchy rash...just can't leave it alone.

Pat

[M.Sommers]

"We all lose someone we love" @ 3.20:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TL4XZdyo3g&feature=related

[fierte_poser]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10C68Gzd5GM

[92degrees]

Since this page alone features a dozen YouTube links, it's clear that we haven't really lost a thing with the departure of some members.

[zank]

and trying to sneak in a ride while the eye-lids will actually stay open :)

[maunahaole]

Hi Zank, thanks for checking in. Wassup in Wustah?

[jmeloy]

Those guys are masters because they live and breathe bikes. Maybe they found another or built another site to hang out at. Either way, they will not abandon bike folks who want to buy their bikes or parts. That wouldn't make any sense. My stupid guess is that something made them all leave at the same time and for the same reason. There are lots of smart people here who raise interesting ideas and make interesting posts. Especially love all the OT posts in the winter. But when it came to bikestuff, nobody could discuss it as intelligently or with as much insight as the masters.
VERY pleased to still have Dazza from downunder and (I think he's still hanging) conorb still with us! Two craftsmen who deserve a lot of attention!! Maybe we can get them to contribute more in the future! :)
-JAM