Training: build small blood vessels

[weisan]

Okay, I was riding yesterday and met up on the road with a guy who is doing a solo training ride. He hired a coach from trainingbible. The training they have prescribed to him is for the next three weeks, he is only allowed strictly to ride below Zone One heart rate regardless of where or how he rides. The reason given is, this type of riding will help cultivate small blood vessels in the legs that will carry oxygen efficiently and avoid lactic acid buildup. If he rides too hard during this period, those magical small blood vessels will "pop" and explode, thus defeating the purpose.

Okay granted the fact that I may not have fully conveyed what he told me due to whatever reason but I thought that's what I heard. Anybody else heard of this before?

I must admit, the first time when I heard him saying this, I am like "You are blowing smoke, brother!" but the more logical side of me who refuses to simply brush something aside without proper research and careful listening has led me to investigate further.

Those of you who have heard of this before, how effective is this type of training. Quite frankly, it's IMPOSSIBLE for me to remain riding in zone one. I am not even talking about the discipline required, just the thought of letting the girls passed me on a climb, I don't think my male ego can handle it. :D

weisan

[weisan]

I found something on the web.

Aerobic Capacity
Given that high levels of lactate/hydrogen ions will be detrimental to performance, one of the key reasons for endurance training is to enable the body to perform at a greater pace with a minimal amount of lactate. This can be done by long steady runs, which will develop the aerobic capacity by means of capillarisation (formation of more small blood vessels, thus enhancing oxygen transport to the muscles) and by creating greater efficiency in the heart and lungs. If the aerobic capacity is greater, it means there will be more oxygen available to the working muscles and this should delay the onset of lactic acid at a given work intensity.

[Dr. Doofus]

Dear Weisan:

There is some truth in what Mr. Friel's associate has said...however.... Your Doofus had the chance to hear Peter Keen give a lecture once, and in the questioning, someone brought up the point of how best to utilize the early off-season period. Mr. Keen replied that it would maximize recovery from the previous year, and maximize aerobic training for the next, by doing endurance work at very, very low intensities -- Chris Boardman would wear his HRM, but only to tell him to keep it Level 1. Keen didn't say anything about blood vessels...only that the broader the base, the higher the peak, and that for a pro racer (in his view) it was better to do 4-5 hours slowwwly than 3 hours at a higher, but still easy, intensity, the idea being that long and slow maintains aerobic foundation upon which one could build power, but that short and medium is niether long enough to maintain endurance nor powerful enough to maintain muscle strength/force.

For a pro racer, sure, this will work.

Your Doofus thinks that for a Cat2-3/Master with a job and a life, the relationship of training time to desired outcome creates a gray area for Oct-Nov-Dec. If one has enough time to accomplish cal/kjoule goals that will maintain the basic endurance base *and* stave off winter weight gain with long slow rides, then long and super slow is the way to go. For an athlete with limited time, your Doofus has always been of the bias that its better to train at higher, but still aerobic/easy intensities. Your Doctor has no scientific evidence for this conclusion, but his own fitness has been better, as has that of his former clients, when limited time was dialed in at 20-25 beats below threshold...Friel's Level 2....

Your Doofus will see what his new guy has him doing this year...it may or may not change his thinking....

[weisan]

Power zone training
http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=powerstern

Benefits and characteristics of each training zone:

Zone 1 - Endurance
Weight loss
Suitable to use post illness
Combine with skill/technique
Increased capillarisation

I am beginning to understand something here...

[zap]

Hmmmm, I've heard about this zone one or below riding but this is usually done for a 1,000 miles or so at the very beginning of the new season, say in November, December, or January.

From what I understand, this type of training also helps get the joints, etc. prepped for the thrashing thats done afterwards. I recall a Aussie coach telling this Pro never ever go above zone one during this first training phase or the process is ruined.

I think this is a more structured training method that expands on early season/small ring only theory.

After my patelar tendon problem this year, I'm willing to give this a shot. But I'm going in hidding and ride my mtb (or Sandy's Ottrott :D ) for a month or two while I do it.

Further thoughts from our learned forum friends....

[weisan]

Thanks Doc!!!

Some very interesting observations.

My biggest problem with training at zone 1 is exactly like you said, making sure I work hard enough and long enough that burn enough calories during my ride so I don't gain weight. And secondly, family commitments only allow me to ride once or twice a week on a long ride. So when I am out there, I try to maximize my time to ride, and in my case that means, ride long and hard.

Interesting enough, the Power Zone training link also put Zone 5 under the category for increased capillarisation. Now that presents a problem for me too...I don't think I would enjoy riding that much if I am constantly in pain. :D

Sorry, I know...I can't have the whole cake and eat it as well.

Zap, thanks for pointing out the building of the joint muscle...yes, now I remember the guy I rode with yesterday mentioning that too. He was going like 5 rpm up a hill, I am not kidding you...in the end, I had to abandon ship and just power up and wait for him at the top. He was kind enough to alert me that I might destroy my knees if I am to follow him and do this without any preparation work.

[Ozz]

I'm on board with the capillarisation. I am having a hard time with the "they pop if you train too hard" part of his statement.

Also, more capillaries = more room blood = lower blood pressure.

Riding a bike is good for you. :)

[spiderman]

the only corollary
i'm aware of that may have some practical application
is the benefit of capillary/collateral blood flow development...
...in cardiovascular health the two primary benefits are...
1) resistance to infarction (cell death) due to enhanced blood flow
in the event of a blockage in a main blood vessel
2) resistance to infarction because plaques don't develop
in the thin wall of a capillary, unlike arteries which are 'plaque-prone'...
it's not too great a stretch that these same benefits
apply to peripheral vascular disease primary prevention as well...
...it's probably all related to balance...
makes me feel like my 8 mph rides with my 9 year old
are giving me some long lasting benefit
in addition to just being fun
and having such great relationship development...

[weisan]

hey spidy, that's a GREAT idea. I should do more of that with my 6-year-old.

[Dekonick]

Ummm - I dont buy the 'they will pop' garbage. It is true that low intensity workouts will encourage capilary growth. There is research going on onow that use hormones to cause capilary growth (extremely desirable for those cardiac patients at great risk for infarction... if they can 'grow' more collateral circulation then if they infarct it will be a smaler infarction.)

Heh - time for me to go for a nice slow ride. Guess now is the perfect time and day for it. Bye all!

[Too Tall]

Garbage.

But what I really mean is you can not get inside someone else's coaching regiment. It's probable even predictable his coach recognized someone who does not know the meaning of "GO EASY" so laid that LAME line on him about "popping vessels". Whatever.

Doof, you are my new coach. As the man said in the re-mix SoCal version of Kurosawa's Seven Samurai: uh, d##d like I totally dig your philosophy.

[bcm119]

Doofus, do you do much in the way of weight training? When do you do it and when is your target peak?

[Dr. Doofus]

Yes:

The Doofus thinks that for a USCF racer, its all about power. The races are short. Its not an endurance sport. Its a power-endurance sport...how long can you keep punching it and stay in the first 20? Breakaways rarely stick. Races are lost on high-end speed and power. As a result, explosive strength is more important than for a four-hour road racer.... Yes, you need the aerobic base to do the on-bike power/speed work, and you want specific strength, but a strong general strength foundation will help the on-bike strength/power work.... Also, one over 35 needs to do weight work for bone density, and to slow down general strength losses.

Doofus (for April-May peak)

October -- Weight phase 1, 4 weeks: sets of 15-20, adaptation
November -- Weight phase 2, 4 weeks: sets of 8-12, hypertrophy
december -- Weight Phase 3, 4 weeks: sets of 6-8, strength
January -- Weight Phase 4: 4 weeks: sets of 4-6, medium weight high speed, power.
February-March -- Weight Phase 5: 8 weeks: Sets of 40-60, medium weight, muscular-endurance, medium duration

Basuic Tudor Bompa stuff, as with Friel.

Coincidentally, most of the rides in Phases 1-3 have to be Level 1-2...you're shredded from weight work, so you have to go slow....

[freddy markham]

LSD builds muscles. No, not that kind of LSD, the long slow distance type. I used to start every season out with about 1500 miles in a low or fix gear (about 66"). It would take about 6 to 8 weeks to get those miles, but at the end of that period I was ready to step up my training. It can be hard for some people to go slow, but I've said for years if you want to go fast you must first learn to go slow.

Riding LSD miles does in fact build up the capillaries in your legs. That makes a much denser muscle and one in which can carry more oxygen and at the same time get rid of lactic acid easier. Riding hard and producing lactic acid will in fact stop those caps from developing during that period.

Unfortunately, most people only find this information out after being injured in some way. In my case I had knee issues around 1975 that spread to both knees. I couldn't ride hard at all for months. Oh yea, I tried to go hard, but only ended up making things worse. So eventually on the advice of my coach (which I finally listened to) I just went out and flopped pedals so to speak. Weeks later the knees were better and I was flying. I started most every season that way and kept getting stronger. LSD training was an integral part of training for years, but has somehow gotten lost in all the other training methods we have now, but I'm here to tell you that this type of training pays big dividens.

Freddy

[Too Tall]

(And now they were two)
FFM, are you an advocate of power work through specificity on the bike or in the weight room BOTH? I like Doof spend off season building legs indoors.

[zap]

By any chance freddy markham that rode gold rush.

[weisan]

http://www.speed101.com/now/fastest_0905_1.htm

[zap]

Ahhh, double gold rush. Never saw that one.

I saw ffm at a IHPV event in College Park, MD in the mid 80's. Gold Rush just flew by everyone.

[93legendti]

LSD builds muscles. No, not that kind of LSD, the long slow distance type. I used to start every season out with about 1500 miles in a low or fix gear (about 66"). It would take about 6 to 8 weeks to get those miles, but at the end of that period I was ready to step up my training. It can be hard for some people to go slow, but I've said for years if you want to go fast you must first learn to go slow.

Riding LSD miles does in fact build up the capillaries in your legs. That makes a much denser muscle and one in which can carry more oxygen and at the same time get rid of lactic acid easier. Riding hard and producing lactic acid will in fact stop those caps from developing during that period.

Unfortunately, most people only find this information out after being injured in some way. In my case I had knee issues around 1975 that spread to both knees. I couldn't ride hard at all for months. Oh yea, I tried to go hard, but only ended up making things worse. So eventually on the advice of my coach (which I finally listened to) I just went out and flopped pedals so to speak. Weeks later the knees were better and I was flying. I started most every season that way and kept getting stronger. LSD training was an integral part of training for years, but has somehow gotten lost in all the other training methods we have now, but I'm here to tell you that this type of training pays big dividens.

Freddy
This has worked for me for the last 7 years. After 10 days rest, I ride the trainer for a period of 8 weeks, 5-6 days a week, at 110-140 bpm with 15 minutes warming up and 15 minutes cooling down, Then I am ready for power work 2-3 x per week. This lets me ride strong from April thru October.

[William]

The Doofus thinks that for a USCF racer, its all about power. The races are short. Its not an endurance sport. Its a power-endurance sport...how long can you keep punching it and stay in the first 20? Breakaways rarely stick. Races are lost on high-end speed and power. As a result, explosive strength is more important than for a four-hour road racer.... Yes, you need the aerobic base to do the on-bike power/speed work, and you want specific strength, but a strong general strength foundation will help the on-bike strength/power work.... Also, one over 35 needs to do weight work for bone density, and to slow down general strength losses.

Exploding capillaries? Haven't heard of that one.

I have to side with the illustrious Dr. on this one. Building power to stay near the front and deal with constant attacks, and bridge gaps requires endurance & explosive power. I posted a little on it in the "Big Frame" thread and the "Off-season Torture" thread. In the off-season, for me, lifting for explosive power combined with daily aerobic (running, rowing, cycling, or footwork exercices) and stretching keep me in shape and help develop a powerful base to build off of once the season starts up again. With weight lifting I will vary the intensities from session to session depending on how my body feels and to keep my body adapting to the stresses. I might go heavy and low reps one session, and go light with high reps another (occasionally going very light weight and repping to failure...sometimes slow, sometimes fast). Always concentrating on explosive movements, and slow contractions, and stretching in between. I'll always spin or ride the rollers for a while afterward to keep the muscles loose & cycling specific.

William


http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=3442

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=3090

[freddy markham]

When I was a serious racer I used the weight room a lot. Most track racers still do. In a nut shell I worked on generating power (mostly in a weight room) and worked on pedal speed (rollers, motor pacing, riding low gears). Put those two together and you can be pretty fast. But to be a good cyclist one must work on a whole range of exercises. You can't keep doing the same thing over and over, you have to mix it up.

To answere somebodys question, Yes I did race the Gold Rush and the Double Gold Rush....the later still holds the outright top speed for a tandem at 68.9 MPH. Not bad for something that resembles the Goodyear Blimp. If anybody's interested go to http://ffmcycling.com and check out some photos from years past to the present....and if you have high speed internet you might want to check out some of the videos.

And since this is the Serrota forum I'd like to add that I've owned three Serrota's. Two road bikes and a track bike. They were undoubtably the best bikes I ever owned. Ben made them himself (well I think he made everything himself back then) and they were flawless. Unfortunately I crashed and wrecked the two road bikes and sold the track bike....I'd like to have that one back now! If I can find a pic of the road bikes I'll post it. On my site under track racing you can see a pic or two of the track bike.
Freddy

[Tom]

...I ride the trainer for a period of 8 weeks, 5-6 days a week, at 110-140 bpm with 15 minutes warming up and 15 minutes cooling down...

Either I am doing something seriously wrong or you have a hell of a CV system. 110-140 bpm is my warmup and cooldown.

[93legendti]

My warmup rate starts around 75-80 bpm. When I start my cooldown, depending how high my HR was during the session, my HR gets to 100 bpm pretty quickly and goes down from there. But HR is all relative to your max and resting rates (also how much coffee you have had that day!).

[weisan]

... if you want to go fast you must first learn to go slow ~ Fast Freddy Markham

I will be mulling over this one for a while, especially during this winter training, thanks for contributing to this forum FFM. :banana:

weisan

[Tom]

My RHR.. ha ha ha. No, we sound similar and I've been trying to keep my HR under 140 for the last few days on the trainer. It's not as hard as it sounds and it seems easier to keep my interest for over an hour.

I was in the bookstore for another reason so I bought the Joe Friel book. I figure it's time I had some idea what I'm trying to do.

[93legendti]

I based my training program on Philip Maffetone's MAF. He has several books on Tarining for Endurance. It really simplified my training and my riding got 10-15% better. I only do one type of "interval". After the 8 week base period, 2-3 x week I ride 15-30 minutes (with proper warmup and cooldown) in 53 x 12 at 55 rpm, sitting, with a lot of tension on the trainer, at HR's of 140-160 bpm. This eally builds power and makes every aspect of my riding better in a short period. It doesn't work for everyone, but for me it is very effective.