Improving driver<->cyclist relations - one idiot at a time

[gone]

As background, my particular slice of paradise is "hot" in real estate terms with dozens of new subdivisions popping up and the attendant strip malls, traffic and road rage that comes with significantly increased traffic on what were country roads. I've adjusted as much as I can (route, time of day, riding habits) to accommodate but every week it seems there are a few more cars, driveways, etc., to contend with.

OK. On today's ride I was on a short stretch of flat road that can be fairly busy depending on time of day. I was going about 25 and saw a huge truck (F350) pulling an even bigger camper in the opposite lane wanting to make a left turn into a supermarket parking lot. Traffic was moderately heavy and he'd had to wait for a while. Finally, there was a little "clear space" - I was the only thing coming - so he punched it and turned directly in my path. I stood all over both brakes and just managed to avoid hitting him. Oh, and by the way, I was wearing a bright green "Leaky Gas" (as Phil would say) jersey and shorts and sitting up for maximum visibility.

After coming to a stop, I turned into the lot and chased after him. I pulled up next to him (late 50's guy and his wife) and screamed Didn't you see me, you nearly killed me!. He pointedly stared straight ahead and sped up (remember, this is a supermarket parking lot). I sped up also and screamed again Didn't you see me, you nearly killed me!. He still ignored me but at this time was talking about a mile a minute to his wife. He again sped up so I did too, pulled in front of him and stopped figuring there were too many witnesses for him to run me over in cold blood. He stopped and finally rolled down his window. I yelled again Didn't you see me, you nearly killed me!. He stammered a bit and said "didn't see you, sorry". Since there was traffic, I said "OK, thanks" and rode off.

As I rode away, I started thinking about the encounter. Although I was "in the right", I didn't think I was right in what I did. I also figured I'd not done a whole lot to improve his attitude toward cyclists. So I turned around.

I found him at a gas station filling up. I pulled up behind him and said "excuse me". Expecting either another rant or an ass-kicking, he ignored me. I tapped him on the shoulder and said "Excuse me, Sir" and he turned around. His wife was probably reaching into the glove compartment for the pistol (this is Texas, after all). I said "I'm sorry that I yelled at you, I shouldn't have done it but I've nearly been hit there a few times. I know it's tough to get across, especially with a big rig like this, but I'd appreciate it if you'd try to keep an eye out for cyclists." He said "I'm sorry, I'd sat there for a while and got impatient. I should have waited." We shook hands, I wished him a pleasant weekend and went on my way.

I don't know if it did any good, I hope so.

[WadePatton]

Cool.

[false_Aest]

You're a better person that I am.

Pretty admirable to come back and shake his hand.

[jthurow]

In the heat of the moment, it's so hard to keep your cool (at least it is for me). Nice resolution though...

jimi

[taylorj]

It is amazing how a small thing like apologizing for your bad behavior (even if your behavior is justified somewhat), says a bunch about you as a person and goes a long way to help our cycling-two-wheel cause. The reality is that it was the driver's JOB to see you. He chose NOT to---but "good on ya" for being bigger than that! You will now enjoy weeks of the "good karma" bug from driver's who WILL see you and act appropriately! :beer:

[thejen12]

Nice ending, good job!

Jenn

[CMY]

To be honest, I feel that we're in the middle of the food chain here. I constantly read about how cyclists are 'abused' on the roads by drivers, but in my mixed experience I've also seen plenty of cyclists show absolutely no respect for pedestrians.

It's ended up in some heated debates only because I think most focus on the legal aspect and not the basic courtesy issue. We've got some bad PR reps floating around out there IMHO.. thanks for not being another one. :beer:

[Satellite]

I know a lot of drivers don't respect cyclist because they say we don't abide by the rules of the road meaning we run stop signs and stop lights. I know lots of cyclist that do these kinds of things.

I however always take my line at a stop light in the order I arrive. Instead of passing the cars waiting at the light on the right and being the first at the intersection and now the line of cars has to re-pass me as the light turns green.

This also doesn't make it right for drivers to push us off the road and cut in front of us so they can turn into McDonalds.

However it was very nice of you to apologies to the gentleman I would have been too embarrassed by my actions to return to the scene of the crime.

[barry1021]

when you are literally a few inches from serious injury or death to maintain composure. Your adrenalin is pumping a mile a minute. Given the circumstances you handled it relatively well. Still it could have been a good ol boy that went after you.....

b21

[pdbrye]

I think you did the right thing. Maybe next time he'll show a little more respect and courtesy to other cyclists.

[Peter P.]

Each person, in each encounter, has to be evaluated and treated individually. Unfortunately, while some respond well to a reasoned word, others need a baseball bat and nothing less.

[RPS]

He stammered a bit and said "didn't see you, sorry". Since there was traffic, I said "OK, thanks" and rode off.I agree you had every reason to be angry, but it seems to me the man must have been sincere or you wouldn’t have accepted his reply in the heat of the moment.

As cyclist we are sometimes guilty of jumping to conclusions. Not everyone cuts us off intentionally.

I’ve almost been hit a couple of times in the last year and I’m 100 percent certain that neither driver saw me at all. One of them was the wife of a good friend who is an avid cyclist himself. She just didn’t look in my direction. And neither did the other guy.

It’s not always about meaning us harm or being disrespectful. As a driver I’ve missed seeing things I should have. It’s never been a bike, but it could have been.

BTW, you have guts to step in front of an F350 in Texas to force it to stop. Being run over is far more dangerous than running into a camper IMHO.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . but in this particular case I would bet he was lying. He saw you only too well. He saw you coming at him on the street and he knew exactly what he was doing when he pulled in front of you. He figured you would stop and then be too timid to do anything about it. I would even wager he didn't do it consciously, but just assumed you would get out of his way because you're so much smaller.

But you called his bullying bluff by following him into the lot, so he figured if he just ignored you and kept his window rolled up you would go away. What else could you do? He wasn't counting on you jumping in front of his truck, and you're correct that you did it in the middle of a parking lot with lots of witnesses where he would judge he couldn't get away with just rolling forward slowly until you had to move or get run over.

Once you did that he had to deal with you and the situation. Same at the gas pump. He was outside the car and couldn't simply roll up the window and ignore you. He had to deal with the situation and with you, and I'd wager again--this time that he was shaking in his shoes because here he was, outside of his truck and vulnerable and you're obviously in better shape than he is and could probably lay him out cold if you were still angry. You showed way more class than he did in dealing with the situation. I hope when the same sort of thing happens to me I can react with as much calm and forgiveness as you did.

I may be making a few too many assumptions here. But I've been bullied on my bike too many times by drivers just like him. They look right at you, then turn in front of you anyway or do something else that emphasizes that they are bigger than you are and you'd better get out of their way, your right of way under law or common courtesy be damned. I've seen it too many times--they know exactly what they're doing, then ignore you to add insult to injury.

BBD

[Dekonick]

I admire you for apologizing. That action probably established more good will toward cyclists than the first reaction. Man, that takes guts.

As much as I don't like it, I stop and wait at red lights. I don't scoot up along traffic to be at the head of the line (unless making a turn) and generally try to be courteous - including halding traffic back if it is unsafe to pass, and wave 'em on when it is safe. Seems to work, but still get the finger every now and again.

Ill bet as gas goes up we see more tolerance toward us.

:beer:

[Chad Engle]

Much respect for apologizing, not easy to do.

BBD: Everyone in the world is not out to get you. Serious, they're not. :)

[gone]

I agree you had every reason to be angry, but it seems to me the man must have been sincere or you wouldn’t have accepted his reply in the heat of the moment.

As cyclist we are sometimes guilty of jumping to conclusions. Not everyone cuts us off intentionally.

BTW, you have guts to step in front of an F350 in Texas to force it to stop. Being run over is far more dangerous than running into a camper IMHO.
To respond to these points:

Whether he was sincere or not in his first apology, one thing I've learned over the years and tried hard to put into practice is when someone says "I'm sorry" to stop arguing. Although it's natural to keep berating them, especially if you're mad, they've said they're sorry, what else can they do? Also, as I said, there was traffic (this was a busy supermarket on Friday of Memorial day weekend).

To your second point that perhaps he didn't see me and cut me off intentionally. We'll never know for sure but note that when I spoke to him at the gas station he said "I'd sat there for a while and became impatient. I should have waited." This implied to me that he did see me and chose to pull out in front of me.

And, as I said, this was a busy supermarket lot, he wasn't going that fast and there were lots of witnesses. I judged it to be unlikely he'd hit me. Good thing I was right :D

[gone]

. . . but in this particular case I would bet he was lying. He saw you only too well. He saw you coming at him on the street and he knew exactly what he was doing when he pulled in front of you. He figured you would stop and then be too timid to do anything about it. I would even wager he didn't do it consciously, but just assumed you would get out of his way because you're so much smaller.

But you called his bullying bluff by following him into the lot, so he figured if he just ignored you and kept his window rolled up you would go away. What else could you do? He wasn't counting on you jumping in front of his truck, and you're correct that you did it in the middle of a parking lot with lots of witnesses where he would judge he couldn't get away with just rolling forward slowly until you had to move or get run over.

Once you did that he had to deal with you and the situation. Same at the gas pump. He was outside the car and couldn't simply roll up the window and ignore you. He had to deal with the situation and with you, and I'd wager again--this time that he was shaking in his shoes because here he was, outside of his truck and vulnerable and you're obviously in better shape than he is and could probably lay him out cold if you were still angry. You showed way more class than he did in dealing with the situation. I hope when the same sort of thing happens to me I can react with as much calm and forgiveness as you did.

I may be making a few too many assumptions here. But I've been bullied on my bike too many times by drivers just like him. They look right at you, then turn in front of you anyway or do something else that emphasizes that they are bigger than you are and you'd better get out of their way, your right of way under law or common courtesy be damned. I've seen it too many times--they know exactly what they're doing, then ignore you to add insult to injury.

BBD

We'll never know for certain, but I believe you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Much respect for apologizing, not easy to do.

BBD: Everyone in the world is not out to get you. Serious, they're not. :)

They're NOT?!? And here I was having so much fun getting indignant! ;)

I think everyone at one time or another has looked at a pedestrian about to step off the curb just as you're approaching in your car and assumed they would not go because they will come out the loser in a collision if they do and you hit them. Same here--I think he just assumed he's bigger and the rider would get out of the way. He may also be one of the many people who really have no idea how fast a serious cyclist can be going. He may really not have realized the bike was doing 25 and misjudged how much time he had.

BBD

[gone]

BBD, I think your first assumption was probably the correct one: he saw me but decided to go anyway given the relative difference in the sizes of our vehicles.

Like probably every other driver in the world, I've had semi's do this to me when I'm in a car countless times. They see me but it's tough to get that big rig across the road (especially at the start-up speed of a fully loaded semi) so they go anyway.

In this particular case though, I was close when he went and that's what made me mad. When I said I stood all over the brakes, I mean it. As a related aside, this is something I practice periodically - coming to a full stop as quickly as possible from a high speed. It's interesting that Motorcycle safety classes emphasize this but it's something that, at least in my own circle of riding friends, very few cyclists practice.

I'm fairly certain that without this practice, I'd either have hit him or done any one of the number of things you can do wrong when doing a panic stop improperly (locking the front or back wheel, fishtailing, etc).

[kipjac]

As background, my particular slice of paradise is "hot" in real estate terms with dozens of new subdivisions popping up and the attendant strip malls, traffic and road rage that comes with significantly increased traffic on what were country roads. I've adjusted as much as I can (route, time of day, riding habits) to accommodate but every week it seems there are a few more cars, driveways, etc., to contend with.

OK. On today's ride I was on a short stretch of flat road that can be fairly busy depending on time of day. I was going about 25 and saw a huge truck (F350) pulling an even bigger camper in the opposite lane wanting to make a left turn into a supermarket parking lot. Traffic was moderately heavy and he'd had to wait for a while. Finally, there was a little "clear space" - I was the only thing coming - so he punched it and turned directly in my path. I stood all over both brakes and just managed to avoid hitting him. Oh, and by the way, I was wearing a bright green "Leaky Gas" (as Phil would say) jersey and shorts and sitting up for maximum visibility.

After coming to a stop, I turned into the lot and chased after him. I pulled up next to him (late 50's guy and his wife) and screamed Didn't you see me, you nearly killed me!. He pointedly stared straight ahead and sped up (remember, this is a supermarket parking lot). I sped up also and screamed again Didn't you see me, you nearly killed me!. He still ignored me but at this time was talking about a mile a minute to his wife. He again sped up so I did too, pulled in front of him and stopped figuring there were too many witnesses for him to run me over in cold blood. He stopped and finally rolled down his window. I yelled again Didn't you see me, you nearly killed me!. He stammered a bit and said "didn't see you, sorry". Since there was traffic, I said "OK, thanks" and rode off.

As I rode away, I started thinking about the encounter. Although I was "in the right", I didn't think I was right in what I did. I also figured I'd not done a whole lot to improve his attitude toward cyclists. So I turned around.

I found him at a gas station filling up. I pulled up behind him and said "excuse me". Expecting either another rant or an ass-kicking, he ignored me. I tapped him on the shoulder and said "Excuse me, Sir" and he turned around. His wife was probably reaching into the glove compartment for the pistol (this is Texas, after all). I said "I'm sorry that I yelled at you, I shouldn't have done it but I've nearly been hit there a few times. I know it's tough to get across, especially with a big rig like this, but I'd appreciate it if you'd try to keep an eye out for cyclists." He said "I'm sorry, I'd sat there for a while and got impatient. I should have waited." We shook hands, I wished him a pleasant weekend and went on my way.

I don't know if it did any good, I hope so.

While this was a heartwarming story, in my experience, most bicycle/motorist encounters don't turn out to be this warm and fuzzy. Most of them end up teetering on the edge of hostile physical confrontation in which cyclists always end up being at a distinct disadvantage. Most motorists I've encountered in my many years on the road seem to feel they have a moral and imperialistic right to their place on the road and refuse to see any other viewpoint besides their own, no matter how much in the wrong they may be. It's either that, or they're just so grossly negligent in their lack of attention they can't understand the enormous risk they're putting us at, much less other drivers.

[RPS]

. . . but in this particular case I would bet he was lying. He saw you only too well. He saw you coming at him on the street and he knew exactly what he was doing when he pulled in front of you. He figured you would stop and then be too timid to do anything about it. I would even wager he didn't do it consciously, but just assumed you would get out of his way because you're so much smaller.Dave, you may be correct, but as a Texan I know that many vehicles on the roads are huge SUVs or pick-up trucks which can easily obscure a bike when behind them. If Greg was riding along the side of the road at a fast clip while being passed by one of these large vehicles, it would have been very easy for the driver of the F350 towing a camper to pull out as soon as the last vehicle went past him without knowing that Greg was hidden from sight.

Regardless, it was a close call but there was no accident; hence there is no justification to become physical or abusive in any way. Even if there had been a collision, a driver (or rider in this case) is not justified in Texas to become physical. And since the man was not leaving the scene of an accident we can’t impede his progress just because we are deservedly angry at him – we also don’t have that right.

If Greg became physical in any way whatsoever with the man (particularly if Greg is younger and more physically fit than the older driver), and his wife stepped out of the truck with a 45 and blew him away, she’d be justified in the eyes of most Texans. Trust me, no court in Texas would find her guilty of protecting her husband from being attacked by an angry cyclist who went out of his path to confront him.

Greg did the right thing by riding away. It’s not worth getting killed to make a point or teach a driver a lesson. And in my experience screaming at drivers is the wrong lesson anyway; it just makes them hate cyclist more.

================================================== ====================================

P.S. – When driving large vehicles like an F350 towing a camper, it is not uncommon to have a difficult time making a left turn in heavy traffic. This happens to commercial trucks also.

A conscientious driver is frequently quite aware that he is blocking traffic behind him which contributes to gridlock. At some point after waiting a long time and having traffic build up behind him, most large trucks will pull out and make a left turn even though they know that oncoming traffic may have to slow down. I personally prefer to continue and find a place where I can turn left at a light and circle around, but that’s not always an option for large rigs. I'm not defending the guy, just saying we need to chill.

[molly22]

all i know is it's pretty hard to have a cool head in tx yesterday, today or probably for the next 9 months. it's a balmy 92 feels like 98 where i am. congratulations for living through your very bold statement (temerity comes to mind).

my riding dropped like a stone when i arrived in my development fulled, fueled with big bad trucks and suvs on cell phones personel heck.

[Tom]

One morning toward the end of my regular loop I said sarcastically "Nice use of the directional, sir" not realizing it was an unmarked cop car. I hear "Hey" I look back and see the rollers. Oops. Well, I would have said it anyway.

I yelled at him for taking a turn without using his signal. He admonished me that not every guy behind the wheel has any brains and one day my yapping could get me in trouble. I said yeah, but you were dumb. He said yeah, but so were you. We laughed and said have a nice day and went on about our business.

You do have to pay attention to who you talk to and how - but if they look like they're sort of teetering on the edge of getting a clue, give 'em a push. Nice job.

[toaster]

When confronted with their sin of trying to make the left turn even though they did see you, the average person doesn't have to think hard at all to utter, "I didn't see you."

I've been there and have confronted motorists in the same and different scenarios and always heard that same lame excuse.

It's bull excrement!

What are they going to say to the police if forced to explain their actions after the same situation?

Yeah, we know!

[Fixed]

"I found him at a gas station filling up."


don't do the crime if you can't pay the the time imho
cheers

[Birddog]

When confronted with their sin of trying to make the left turn even though they did see you, the average person doesn't have to think hard at all to utter, "I didn't see you."

I think you may be correct in that assertion much of the time, however, a strategically placed bugsplat on the windshield will obscure a cyclist, they just don't fill much space, at least not near as much as the vehicle we're sort of programmed to be looking for. That's not meant to be an excuse, just food for thought to remind us as cyclists to be extra vigilant.

Birddog

[Ginger]

So after I first read this I was riding along in one of the few bike lanes and I'm a couple blocks from home and approaching an intersection and I hear vehicle coming up behind me, sounded like it was trying to make the green light two blocks up. There's a car waiting at this intersection on my right. As the BIG silver SUV overtakes me just as I'm almost to the intersection the driver flips on its right turn signal and starts to slow for the turn. So...speed and distance being what they are, I'm about to cream the side of a big silver SUV and I'm locking everything up and trying to get ready to turn with the thing in a tight space due to the car right there...and suddenly the SUV
stopped.
The people in the car look relieved and I cautiously pedal forward as the SUV sits and waits for me to clear...
and sitting in the driver seat is a big bearded red flannel and camouflage trucker cap wearing guy smiling and waving and waiting for me to take my right of way.
I smile and wave back as I pedal through.
Thanks Mr. SUV driver.

Maybe he reads this forum?


Good on ya for apologizing for yelling.