Mixing in MTB

[theprep]

How do you classify a hard 2 hour MTB ride into a road racing training program?

I am currently loosely following Coggan’s Intermediate program.

I live next to a 24 mile MTB trail. I typically warm up, then go as hard as I can for 35-40 min., rest for 15 min, then max effort for another 35-40 min. I know my heart rate during the hard efforts averages around threshold (168 bpm) with some spikes to approx. 180 on the hills.

It just does NOT feel as hard as a Level 4 Threshold ride on the road bike though because of all the coasting for corners and descending. I could never do 80 minutes of Level 4 threshold on the road.

Do I classify the ride?

Level 4 – Threshold
Level 5 – VO2 max
Level 6 - Anaerobic Capacity

Thank you,
Joe

[Steelhead]

I would classify it as:

"Man, how lucky am I to live next to a 24 mile mountain bike trail!" ;) :)

[Fixed]

bro you found out why mt bike racers train on road bikes imho
cheers

[Dave B]

bro you found out why mt bike racers train on road bikes imho
cheers


Yep!

[coylifut]

How do you classify a hard 2 hour MTB ride into a road racing training program?

I am currently loosely following Coggan’s Intermediate program.

I live next to a 24 mile MTB trail. I typically warm up, then go as hard as I can for 35-40 min., rest for 15 min, then max effort for another 35-40 min. I know my heart rate during the hard efforts averages around threshold (168 bpm) with some spikes to approx. 180 on the hills.

It just does NOT feel as hard as a Level 4 Threshold ride on the road bike though because of all the coasting for corners and descending. I could never do 80 minutes of Level 4 threshold on the road.

Do I classify the ride?

Level 4 – Threshold
Level 5 – VO2 max
Level 6 - Anaerobic Capacity

Thank you,
Joe

are you trying to build a manual file in cycling/training peaks? If that's the case, I can give you some ideas on how to assign the tss so it be a good proxy for your performance manager.

[chuckred]

bro you found out why mt bike racers train on road bikes imho
cheers

Trying to ride a mountain bike ride to fit into the specific training zones can be tough.

While I may occasionally ride the mountain bike on a recovery ride, I use the road bike if I'm worried about things like "base miles" or staying in specific zones. On the other hand, riding the mountain bike can "force" you into interval training with intense efforts of indeterminate lengths depending on the terrain. And if you're going to race mtbikes, you can only train your handling skills on the mt bike.

And, if nothing else, mentally, it's a nice change of pace - especially not to have to worry about cars!

Otherwise, if you're worried about training zones, try to best fit it in based on your average heart rate and the intensity and duration of the "forced" intervals... After all, it's (at least in my opinion - but I'm slow, so take it with a grain of salt) not as exact a science as some might try to make you think! Your wheels won't fall off if your intervals vary in time and duration with the terrain rather than your stopwatch!

[Mikej]

You are not doing it right. ATB'ers train on the road because 99% of us have to drive to a trail. Just do an Expert level ATB race, you will have your head spinning wondering what just happened.

[chuckred]

You're right. I just did a 50 mile MTB race on Saturday and I'm still hurting!

[WadePatton]

Well the only way I can find MTB intensity on the road is doing hill repeats. The only way I can take it easy on the trails is to stop a lot.

Folks are different. And I still have lots to learn about training. Raced 17 miles singlespeed Sunday and I still suck. Hope to suck less by the end of the year.

Sure would help if I had 24 miles of trail next door! :banana:

[redir]

You're right. I just did a 50 mile MTB race on Saturday and I'm still hurting!

I did 20 mile race a few weeks ago on my ridged and I was toasted for days.

[theprep]

are you trying to build a manual file in cycling/training peaks? If that's the case, I can give you some ideas on how to assign the tss so it be a good proxy for your performance manager.

I think I get the tss close enough just by looking at other PT workouts of similiar intensity/duration.

I guess, I wanted opinions on what level workout this MTB ride satisfies. If the plan calls for a Level 4 Threshold workout, can I cross it off by going for this MTB trail ride?

I am a little tired of the road right now and mountain biking is a nice change.

[scrooge]

Sorry for the thread drift, but am I understanding folks correctly who are suggesting that MTB rides are "easier" than road, or just that they don't fit well into zones?

Personally, i find the MTB killer...They're the ones that make me want to puke--not sure how that fits in the program...

Oh, and out here in CO I do a lot of climbing on the MTB--ride flat suff in denver on bike paths, make myself wheeze and see spots on the trail in the foothills...

[Fixed]

You are not doing it right. ATB'ers train on the road because 99% of us have to drive to a trail. Just do an Expert level ATB race, you will have your head spinning wondering what just happened.
it is every bit as hard and you need to train on your mt. bike but for intrvals and
aerobic fitness nothing beats doing it on the road where you don't have to slow down for stuff imho I love my fixie mt bike i ride it everyday

[theprep]

I would classify it as:

"Man, how lucky am I to live next to a 24 mile mountain bike trail!" ;) :)

I am lucky. The trails in the area are one of the reasons I purchased my house 11 years ago. The main trail (there are also family, horse and hiking trails on this property) is on over 5,000 acres of State Nature Preserve in Rocky Point. It used to be owned by the RCA Corporation. They performed all of the Trans Atlantic Radio Communications with Europe from this sites huge radio towers.

There are toppled radio towers, concrete footings and old concrete roads throughout the site.

The best riding on Long Island though is about 5 miles west of me in Setauket Woods. It is super hilly and technical with average speeds of under 9 mph. There is no way I could get around this place and stay aerobic.

Joe

[WadePatton]

Sorry for the thread drift, but am I understanding folks correctly who are suggesting that MTB rides are "easier" than road, or just that they don't fit well into zones?
...
I think the OP was searching for a zone. This folk never meant to imply MTB was easier. What I was saying is that I have to work really hard to make a MTB ride easy--but I never ride multi-gears off road. I have to really push myself on the road to get an ATB level workout and do that with hill repeats. I primarily use the road for base and recovery.

The fixed (roade) may thrash me this afternoon. ;)

[coylifut]

I think I get the tss close enough just by looking at other PT workouts of similiar intensity/duration.

I guess, I wanted opinions on what level workout this MTB ride satisfies. If the plan calls for a Level 4 Threshold workout, can I cross it off by going for this MTB trail ride?

I am a little tired of the road right now and mountain biking is a nice change.

I think you are on the right track. To confirm, build your best guess manual file. I'd say your effort is about 80-85% of your 20 minute tt test effort. You can confirm this by simply looking through your WKO files for prior Level 4 Threshold workouts and comparing the numbers. Soon enough, you'll be able to rent a PT MTB wheel, do the ride, download the file and use it to build very accurate manual files that can be scaled for different time/distances.

Cogan's goal for the above workout is to hold your average and normalized power as close to each other as possible. That's a very rare event on a MTB due to the hillocks, corners as you mentioned.

have fun.

[theprep]

coylifut,

The effort does feel like a hard Level 3 Tempo effort. My high average heart rate of 168 (threshold) with 180 spikes was throwing me off and thinking I was achieving a Level 4 or 5 or 6.

Thanks for the help.

[T.J.]

Raced 17 miles singlespeed Sunday and I still suck. Hope to suck less by the end of the year.



would that race happen to have been at Montgomery Bell?