Bike for indoor trainer

[Kevin]

I am looking for a "new" bike to use on my indoor trainer. The problem I am having is finding a bike that fits me properly. I am six feet tall, but I have long legs and a short torso for someone my height. In addition, the distance from my hip to my knee is very long for someone my height. As a result, I need a bike frame with a very relaxed seat tube angle. The angle on my Ottrott is 71.5 degrees. Does anyone know of a bike manufacturer who uses such a relaxed seat tube angle on a 59 cm frame? To make matters worse I have to find a frame that has a very short top tube. The top tube length on my Ottrott is only 56.5 cm.

If I have to buy a custom bike for the trainer, does anyone have any suggestions? I am also looking for any comments on the differences between the Colorado III and the CSI? Because of its lugs I may be leaning towards the CSI. I think that the lugs may hold up better to the stresses of the trainer.

Thanks for your help.

Kevin

[Jay Torborg]

I have the same problem with long legs and short torso - my Ottrott is 58cm ST and 56cm TT. When I was looking for a rain bike, I bought a 56cm frame on ebay and am building it up (with old parts) with a lot of seat post showing and a long steerer tube with lots of spacers.

Can't you get the equivalent of a relaxed seat tube angle by using a seat post with a lot of setback? I guess this would make the effective top tube length even longer, but I've heard of very short stems that could compensate. Since it's on the trainer, you don't actually have to steer the thing.

[Redturbo]

Why can't you put the ottrott on the trainer?

turbo

[Kevin]

Serotta tells me that I can put the Ottrott on the trainer but that I can't ride out of the saddle. Because I like to use Spinerval tapes the prohibition on coming out of the saddle really prevents the use of the Ottrott.

I have been using my Litespeed Vortex with a Look Ergo post that has a lot of set-back. It has more set-back than any post I have been able to find. Unfortunately, it does not push the saddle back far enough and I am starting to have a little knee pain.

I also have a couple of old Bianchis (circa 1990-95). But when I put them on the trainer their BBs flex quite a bit and they are making me nervous.

So I think it may be time to get a bike that fits for the trainer.

Kevin

[BigMac]

You'll probably want to look at mid 80's or earlier DeRosa or Merckx "Century geometry" models, they shared same geometry at said time. It was around '87 or '88 that DeRosa's became more upright. I do not recall exact geometries for your size but you'll likely find STA of 72 or less, TT length will be 58+. Yes, this is too much TT but simply use a shorter stem. If this is a trainer bike, you're not likely to ever be riding high speed descents where the short stem induced twitchy steering will be a problem. The only important factors are saddle-pedal relationship and forward reach. The saddle-pedal reach can be accomodated by 72* if you use a post with a bit more setback than on Ottrott and/or position saddle further relative to post clamp (forward section of saddle rails).

Masi's (stock geo, although many CA built models were customs) are a bit more upright than Derosa/Merckx. The old Olmo's were pretty laid back as well. If you can find a 70's or earlier Schwinn Paramount, these too were pretty laid back, the 80's were primarily very upright crit style geos. Colnago's have short TT but are generally around 73* STA. Among the lower priced used bikes, checkout Astro-Daimler-Puch also the beautiful british Mercian's which seem to escape many collector's eyes, at least compared to the more famous italian brands. I suspect you'll find something reasonably servicable w/o the extraordinary expense of a new custom, at least if your only goal is a stationary trainer bike.

Ride on!

[TmcDet]

Have you looked @ a Fierte? 58 Fierte frame is not far off from what you are talking about...it is compact geometry with 73 degree seat tube and a 56.5 top tube, looks like there should be away to get that to work

[eddief]

are two that build custom at quite amazing prices. Curtlo does fillet steel for around $800. Mark Hickey at Haba will do custom ti for around $1k. I'm sure the look and quality will be overkill for an indoor trainer, but you will have the comfort you are looking for. Teesdale is another that comes to mind.

[Kevin]

BigMac,

Thanks for the idea on the DeRosa or Merckx "Century geometry" models. I'll see if I can locate any.

TmcDet,

I don't think that the Fierte is going to work for me. The 73 degrees is close. But I have a long history of knee problems (20 years). In fact, my knees are so bad that when Serotta delivered my first Ottrott I rode it for 30 minutes and told my LBS that there was something wrong with the seat tube angle because my knee was killing me. It turned out the frame was manufactured with the wrong seat tube angle. It was manufatured with a 73.5 instead of a 71.5 and the frame was replaced at no cost. Having lived through surgery and physical therapy I am going to try and find a 71.5. But thanks for the idea.

eddie,

Thanks for the lead on Curtlo.

Kevin

[PaulE]

Kevin,

I think if you look at the bottom bracket on any bike while you're riding it installed in a stationary trainer you are going to see the bottom bracket flex a lot, just because the rest of the bike is being held in place and not allowed tomove. Of course, I have nothing to back this up other than looking at my own old steel bike, which was plenty stiff when it was on the road, installed in my trainer.

[Kevin]

I am use to the BB movement on the trainer, my Bianchis are getting worse with age. In addition, the paint at the lugs on the headset and BB is starting to crack. I think it may be time to retire the old girls. I'll have my LBS look at them and see what they have to say.

Kevin

[Len J]

Kevin:

I'm not sure what you want to spend, but one idea is to go to the rivendell website and look at the Rambollet. 72 degree STA (A set back post will make up the .6 cm difference between a 72 and a 71.5 degree STA), and as Big Mac pointed out, if the TT is too long, use a shorter stem.

If one of the older Orange Rambollet's are available, $995.00.

Should be plenty strong enough for what you want.

Len

Web Link to catalog:

http://rivendellbicycles.com/webalog/frames/50074.html

Web link to geoimetry:

http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/bikes_rambouillet_3.html

[woolly]

OK, please point out my folly in this suggestion - Why couldn't you just jack up the front of the bike a little extra, in effect slackening the seat angle (slack = "less vertical", right?). You could do this w/ some wood underneath one of those wheel blocks that's made to level out a bike when it's on a trainer. Then, just adjust the seat so you've got the desired seat-to-BB relationship. Then just install a Look Ergostem to easily dial in your seat-to-bar relationship.

This is for a dedicated trainer bike, right? So it doesn't matter one bit how the thing rides or handles, it's only important to duplicate the fit of your road bike. If this assumption is true, I can't imagine why you would want to spend $$$ for a bike that'll live it's full life mounted on the trainer. I'd go as cheap as I could for this application. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for adding to your bike stable, just suggesting that the funds would be better spent on something other than the dedicated trainer bike.

As always, YMMV.

- Chris

[Ozz]

There are a couple nice Merckx's on ebay now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3650841779&category=7298

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3651172733&category=22681

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3650124711&category=7298

I wouldn't spend too much $$ on bike that will spend most of it's time in a trainer. Sweat has a nasty habit of working its way into places that are hard to wipe down (headset).

You might even look into one of those "Spinning" type exercise bikes and dial in the set up to match your road bike.

Check this out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3651892279&category=15276

[Rich_W]

Huh? Is there fear the thing the tubes will become unglued?? I can understand reefing hard on it on the trainer... but normal riding will damage it?

Thats kinda unsettling... I wonder if they ever had an Ottrott come apart?

I wonder if other manufacturers of similar product are consistent with this reccomendation.

[Tom]

I have an old aluminum bike in a mag/fluid trainer and I am having a hell of a time getting the big ring to work without driving me crazy. I'm no powerhouse, but I flex it enough that the chain rubs in all but maybe two gears. Looking down, I can see the bottom bracket swaying back and forth even though the front and back wheel are fixed. I don't care about putting my old bike in a vise and flexing it 100 times a minute for 7 hours a week or so but I can see why they discourage doing that with a bike that is intended to continue to perform well out on the road.

[jerk]

the jerk hopes this thread is joke. a new custom bike for THE TRAINER? what are you talking about? listen up, put a freakin phone book under your front wheel and adjust your seat angle to your hearts content....now a trainer is a flawed device to begin with and of course the bb is going to flex and your naughty bits are going to hurt because the bike doesn't move...not to mention the jerk finds watching paint dry to be one hundred times more entertaining than riding the damn thing...listen kevin if you spend alot of time training indoors don't waste your money on a bike that is going to be misused. go buy a lemond spin cycle. they're a thousand bucks, completely adjustable even to 71.5 degree seat angles with 56cm top tubes...(probably the strangest one the jerk has heard all day) and were actually designed for your intended purpose unlike the motebecane you're going to find at Stu's discount used hoopty bike shop.
or better yet putt your ottrott on some rollers and work on your spin...the jerk is in far worse shape than almost all of you but because i still have some vague notion of how to pedal a bicycle efficiently i can still hang with the big guys....
anyway, sorry for the ire.
the jerk

[Climb01742]

well, i guess that settles that.

[woolly]

Another suggestion would be to get a Kreitler trainer & not worry about getting a different bike. http://www.kreitler.com/windtrnr.htm

[vaxn8r]

Thank you jerk. My thoughts exactly. I would love one of those Lemond Cycles...but not enought to actually buy one.

I don't get buying a new bike for trainer use at all. The other option is to get a $400 used road bike that fits and ride away till it rusts out.

Everything will flex on a trainer. It's just what the bikes do.

Maybe another option is rollers but you have to get really good if you're going to be out of the saddle sprinting. I can stand up but have to hold it pretty steady while doing so.

[Kevin]

Chris,

Your idea about jacking up the front of the bike is interesting. It is so simple that I find myself wondering why it should not work.

Ozz,

Thanks for the ebay items. I e-mailed the sellers seeking to get some geometry information.

Rich W,

I don't know why Todd e-mailed me not to get out of the saddle while the Ottrott is in the trainer, but I don't want to annoy the bicycle gods. So I stay in the saddle.

Jerk (& vaxn8r),

I think that you have been speaking to my wife. She thinks that I am crazy about many things. The custom bike is my fall back position if I can't find a standard bike that works for me (I hope to find a standard frame bike). Your suggestion of the Lemond spin cycle is a good one (though it does not give me an excuse to add to the stable). Do you have any experience with the Lemond spin cycle? If so, can you share it with me. Your suggestion of rollers does not work for me (I will probably kill myself and ride onto the clothes dryer).

Wooly,

Do you have any experience with the Kreitler trainer? It looks interesting.


Kevin

[Rich_W]

a couple of things...

regardless of what Todd is telling you... I'm sure it would be hard to damage an Ottrott on a trainer...

Tom does have a point... you can flex the crap out of a frame on a trainer... why ride such a nice bike on it.

I have a '78 Bianchi beater I use on my trainer simple because I hate having to change out the rear skewer so not to damage a nice one.

Last... don't discount the rollers... they only take a short time getting used to, and then you are gold. I usually do a 30 min session on the trainer, and switch to the rollers, and vice-versa... whatever mood I'm in. Masta Jerk is right... they really do wonders for your spin... a trainer is good for the mash.

Maybe I'm just coordinated... but I really feel they are easy... as long as you can pay attention that is... the only time I've come off them is not paying attention, or grabbing for the TV remote. I use them in the middle of an open room, nothing to grab, so if I ride off... I literally ride off...

[mikemets]

Hi Kevin,

I only have one bike, a Calfee, and ride it on a trainer at least 2x a week in the off season.

I ride it pretty hard using most of the SPINeRVALS tapes and am out of the saddle in the 53/12 often.

I asked Craig Calfee about this and he said no problem, and I haven't noticed any problems to date.

Mike

[Rich_W]

I was feeling sassy, and snapped a pic of my beater for the image gallery.

[djg]

First: any old bike of the right size with a relatively slack seat tube angle and a look ergopost with the rear-most bolt setting--it's really a fair bit of setback.

Second: kreitler rollers (big diameter for just spin, smaller for--imo--a more useful range of workloads, or whatever you want plus the headwind thing) plus a sweatnet plus your dialed-in ottrot.

[DfCas]

made by Albert Bold would take a long time to get.Clearly,the most expensive and elegant solution would be a Calfee cross frame,not quite custom but close as they are made to order and the stock geometry is close to what you speak of.

I vote for wood blocks under the front of a ~56cm frame and whatever stem works.

Dan