Supported Tours Anyone?

[dbrk]

There's a piece on cnn.com about one of the touring companies that takes care of everything but the pedaling. Has anyone done one of these sorts of European rides recently? I guess my curiosity lies in the extent of the support and the quality of the experience. The link is here: http://www.cnn.com/2008/TRAVEL/getaways/05/13/catered.cycling.ap/index.html

The article imhoatmo takes a somewhat jaded look at those (implication: spoiled wealthy) who have a post-schlepping-may-I-eat-well-and-sleep-in-a-bed-tonight view in comparison to traditional (or is it "real"?) bike touring, which is self-supported. I've only admiration for people who self-support but, at this point in my life, am far, far more likely to prefer the fully supported style. Of course, I'm far more likely than that to stay home and spend a day in minimalist self-supported out and back.

dbrk

[Ray]

Douglas,

I've done a bit of everything from fully self-supported camping tours (carrying waaay too much stuff on the bike) to credit card tours (a pretty good compromise) to fully supported camping tours (they carry your gear, establish the route, and provide meals) to fully supported hotel/inn tours. In terms of the fully supported hotel/inn/dorm room tours, I've done a few, from very low budget to a couple of short but relatively high-budget tours.

They all have their trade-offs. I don't like carrying a lot of weight on my bike and I'm getting to the point that I don't like sleeping in a tent and pissing in a bottle in the middle of the night (sorry to be graphic, but that can be a reality of tent-camping once you reach a certain age - something to consider before you take it on), so supported hotel tours or light credit card tours seem to work best for me. Credit card tours are nice because you control the itinerary and you can improvise if you feel like going longer or shorter than planned on a given day. OTOH, you have to plan them pretty well in advance to even know where the hotels along the route are (although with web-browsable smart-phones, I 'spect this is getting easier now).

The upsides of the fully supported tours are pretty obvious. The downsides are that you don't control ANYthing except your bike, you don't choose your companions, and you can't improvise once you get on the road. But they're very comfortable and, if you get a nice group of folks, they can be a lot of fun. And a good company will know the area and be able to choose nicer roads than you'd be able to do on your own. My experience has been that there have generally been nicer groups of people on the more low-end to middle-class endeavors - when you don't spend a zillion bucks, you don't tend to have a sense of crazy-entitlement and complain when your expectations aren't met - but the food and lodging is obviously fancier on the luxo-tours. There's stuff out there for every budget, though, so you get to choose your own poison.

FWIW, two of the more enjoyable tours I've done were a single-destination tour in Wales where we stayed in an old church rectory type of dormitory and did a series of day-rides from the same location and a cross-state tour of Pennsylvania where we stayed in college dorms and ate in college cafeterias. Both reasonably cheap with a good mix of people and the food and accommodations were comfortable enough. The two higher-end tours I did had their nice moments but the level of pampering and the expectations of some of my fellow-travelers were much less to my liking.

-Ray

[keno]

my wife and I have been to Tuscany, New Zealand, and Vietnam/Cambodia on supported tours in the past few years. At the end of June, we go to Provence on another. Ours have been with companies not mentioned but in the Meivici class. I, without my wife, went to Argentina two years ago on a lower scale tour in which I stayed at the same moderately priced hotel, ate there, and all rides were from it, but was supported. I've been to Too Tall's camp twice, which was supported. The levels of support differed widely among the trips.

From my perspective, it's a matter of what works for us, as it should be for anyone. My wife is not an avid cyclist, buy OK on the bike and enjoys it. She also, as do I, enjoys a good vacation that includes fine hotels, fine food, and cultural exposure and unique experiences, which our tours have provided. We are also types who simply enjoy knowing that it's all taken care of and that the tour company has put together a combination of all elements that will makes us want to sign up again (the New Zealand trip was not up to the standard it should have been and the company has credited us, after a conversation and without resistance as they had learned of the trip's problems from others, the entire amount of the trip which goes towards the Provence trip next month).

In this matter, as in most, the devil lies in the details. For some examples, I know that there is no way that I would have been invited into the home of an architect living near Hanoi for a wonderful dinner to hear the story of how the very home we were in was taken by the government and used by generals in the army and later recovered by him and rebuilt. Or for another, again in Vietnam, to hear during the course of a few hour bus ride from Hanoi to Hue the hilarious story told by our cultural guide, Dragon, of his courtship and wedding. Or in Tuscany, to have a six-course vegetarian lunch at a family restaurant preceded by a course on olive oil and a tasting, or a private showing of the Palio documentary on a day on which it wasn't available to the public. A well-conceived supported tour, depending upon the price, should offer things like this.

No small matter is that there are other people on the tour, usually, in our experience, about 20 or so plus guides and drivers. The company guides, except in New Zealand, were outstanding, and outside guides have been exceptional. The people who are on these tours are in many cases very interesting, intelligent, and professionally accomplished and wonderful to be around. Only in one case, New Zealand, again, were there problems.

Happily for us, we can do this type of thing. Is it for everybody, certainly not. And there is a broad spectrum of supported tours with different price tags. These companies typically offer many tours in many locations and they want your repeat business in what is a very competitive market. Chances are quite good that you will get your money's worth if you find one offering what your own needs and likes are. Incidentally, from what I understand about your personal riding style, people ride at their own paces. With the exception of Argentina, where we rode in a group, cue sheets are provided, which is interesting in its own way since odometers are not provided. The cue sheets usually have greater detail to make them meaningful. In Vietnam and Cambodia, the company had folks holding signs making it clear when a turn was to be make. Not that any of us could have read them if they existed, as, for the most part, there were no signs in Cambodia. If you missed a turn, someone chased you down. Every tour I have been on has ended with the same number of people who started it.

If you have questions, please let me know.

Best,

keno

[paczki]

The Vietnam/Cambodia tour sounds wonderful. Who was the company? I may have to try it!

[Climb01742]

keno, how do the tours handle the riding each day given, i would guess, the varying fitness-levels and distance-desires of the different guests? did you ever feel (what's a good word?) "thwarted" in your riding wishes for each day? riding in provence will be heaven. enjoy.

[DHallerman]

Of course, I'm far more likely than that to stay home and spend a day in minimalist self-supported out and back.

Even though you're describing it at home, Douglas, I think that's a key distinction in tours: one, the new place every night or every other night kind; and two, go to one really nice place, and do various daytrips out and back from that place.

I much prefer the latter kind, because that way, too, you can get to know the area you're staying a bit, too.

One non-supported bike trip that's worked well for us has been going to this great inn in the North Carolina mountains, not a bike inn. And then just put together various daytrips in the Blue Ridge, as well as non-cycling fun.

Dave, who will also be trying Bike Noho in Northhampton Mass. next month which he has heard does a good job of the single-place tour

[znfdl]

I have done many fully supported tours. The only company that I have worked with has been Pac Tour. Lon and Susan know how to run a great tour. Their tours are not for everybody, as their cross country tours can be great one day and like the Battan due to the rider having an off day. Their tours do not have rest days built into them. If you have an off day it can be a long, very long day.

However, usually the cyclists on the tour are quite good riders. You quickly learn who you can and cannot ride with.

Rumor has it that Pac Tour will be doing in 2009 a 25 day tour from Portland, Oregon to Pensacola, Florida. This is something I hope that my wife will let me do next year.

Every March and April, Pac Tour runs one week tours in Arizona and New Mexico. I have been doing atleast one week the last 3 years. Great early season distance training.

[keno]

companies typically grade the difficulty of the riding in their glossies or on their website. Some specific trips are designed for hard core types, that would be you, I think; others for softer core types. You can always call and ask for specifics. Some will give you daily mileages as well as feet of climbing.

When it comes to the high-end tours, unless you have a company design a tour for you (bespoke, they call it), I doubt that you will find too much offered where the emphasis is solely on hard riding and high living. The market is, I think, for couples in which one is a rider and the other a more casual rider, and the tour kind of splits the difference. The trips I've been on assume the riders are reasonably fit, but not the likes of us. In Tuscany, we did encounter grades as steep as 15% which most walked. Think vacation with riding as the principle activity. Bike camps are a whole other thing, of course.

Incidentally, you get a daily cue sheet with kms but no odometer (except in Argentina, I've used company bikes). Everyone seems to get to where they are intended to. You don't ride as a group but at your own pace. On my trips, there were options usually provided adding mileage and difficulty. For instance, in the upcoming Provence trip Mt. Ventoux is such an option. How many, if any, will do it I don't know. If others are attempting it, I'm in, but I doubt I'll do it solo. In any case, I'm sure that the tour will have a rider to do it with whoever is interested.

keno

[Climb01742]

companies typically grade the difficulty of the riding in their glossies or on their website. Some specific trips are designed for hard core types, that would be you, I think; others for softer core types. You can always call and ask for specifics. Some will give you daily mileages as well as feet of climbing.

When it comes to the high-end tours, unless you have a company design a tour for you (bespoke, they call it), I doubt that you will find too much offered where the emphasis is solely on hard riding and high living. The market is, I think, for couples in which one is a rider and the other a more casual rider, and the tour kind of splits the difference. The trips I've been on assume the riders are reasonably fit, but not the likes of us. In Tuscany, we did encounter grades as steep as 15% which most walked. Think vacation with riding as the principle activity. Bike camps are a whole other thing, of course.

Incidentally, you get a daily cue sheet with kms but no odometer (except in Argentina, I've used company bikes). Everyone seems to get to where they are intended to. You don't ride as a group but at your own pace. On my trips, there were options usually provided adding mileage and difficulty. For instance, in the upcoming Provence trip Mt. Ventoux is such an option. How many, if any, will do it I don't know. If others are attempting it, I'm in, but I doubt I'll do it solo. In any case, I'm sure that the tour will have a rider to do it with whoever is interested.

keno

ken, thank you for the detailed answer. the mrs and i have talked about france for summer 09. provence is at or near the top. with ventoux a prime reason. if you're inclined, a trip report of your upcoming escapades would be greatly appreciated by me, and i'm sure many others. have a great time. :beer:

[Pete Serotta]

Great area, would love to hear about the trip and see some pictures..... :bike:

[bocarider]

My wife and I have done 6 Backroads trips, including Tuscany, Provence, and Canadian Rockies. We both ride, so it works out well for us. The long options offered most days gets us plenty of riding time and many of the trips Backroads offers has pretty challenging riding.

Backroads is certainly not cheap (but not as expensive as Butterfield & Robbins) but we always feel like we get great value for our dollars, between the quality of hotels, the food, the logistical support and having the rides laid out for us.

We bring our own bikes, but the Backroads bikes are perfectly serviceable. We are doing Bryce, Zion and the Grand Canyon this summer, so it will be my wife's first trip on her new Legend TI.

[justinf]

D, Sarah and I did one through Tuscany and Umbria several years ago. A blast despite the POS "Bianchi" hybrid bikes we rented. I'll fill you in sometime. . .

[Kirk007]

A supported tour with Andy Hampsten (8 days Italy) or Glenn Erickson (15 days - France or Italy - more in France) are extraordinary trips for folks who are serious about riding. Nice accommodations but not over the top. Good food. In my experience, top notch fellow riders. Plenty of support but not hand holding (there will be no aid stations half way up alpe d'huez handing out water bottles (like I saw with the Trek tours). Erickson in particular is an incredible bargain (although I think he raised his prices recently).

I'd be happy to throw some photos of my trip through the Alps with Erickson or with Andy (although I suspect you have a good source for info on Andy's trips) onto a CD for you. I can't look at them without getting the itch to go back.

Greg

[wanderingwheel]

The vast majority of my tours have been solo, self-supported, but I have done a domestic tour organized by some friends mostly for club-mates. That's not quite the same as what you're looking at. However, I did find the tour a little insular for my taste. Here we were, this self-contained group of close friends riding through beautiful places, but I never felt a part of it as on my own tours, just a passer-by. Then again, I've never quite had the experiences that Keno describes from his tours. The one other thing that keeps me away from supported tours is that I've never enjoyed sticking to a firm itinerary. Even on my short tours, I bust mine in the first day or two.

One theory I've been developing is that every tour has a certain amount of discomfort and you can only relocate it, not remove it. Now that my pocket book is getting stronger, it might be worthwhile to consider relocating the discomfort to it through other supported tours. In the past, I've moved the discomfort back and forth between the bike and the campsite depending on how much I carry.

[Louis]

There is something to be said for waking up at sunrise in a tent, hearing the birds chirping outside (assuming there was no torrential rain overnight).

However, if I'm going to be on the bike for say, 5 hours, having a hot shower, a prepared meal, and a comfy bed are also darn attractive.

[dave thompson]

In 2005 my wife and I did a self-guided supported tour of Austria and Germany. Everything was arranged for us, bikes, hotels, luggage pick-up and delivery ans some meals. We found that to be very appealing as we could take our time, stop where we liked, dawdle if we wanted and there would always be our rooms and clean clothes waiting for us at our destination, all we had to do was show up every evening.

In 2007 we stayed for a week at a bicycle hotel in Italy where there were daily out-and-back rides of various lengths and difficulties and we chose which we wanted to do at breakfast. The hotel took care of everything, bike rentals, bike clothes cleaning every day, all meals, transportation to various non-cycling events, olive oil, cheese and wine tastings in addition to pick up and drop off at the train station and airport.

Both types of trips are interesting and fun. Next year, for our 25th anniversary, we plan on several weeks in Europe, one doing the bike hotel again and the other doing another self-guided supported tour.