2 seperate cases of ulock justice in Cambridge MA

[Alexi]

http://www.universalhub.com/node/14500
http://www.wickedlocal.com/cambridge/news/x325166696

[Sandy]

Wow! That should help the image of cyclists and make it safer for all of us. :crap: :no: I wonder what charges the cyclists face.


Sandy

[gone]

Wow! That should help the image of cyclists and make it safer for all of us.

Sandy
Although I certainly don't condone what the cyclists did, my guess is it will have absolutely no effect either way. Most drivers in cities have already formed whatever attitudes they have about cyclists & cycling. Events such as this may be used as rationalization (for both sides) about their respective behaviors but don't usually turn a road rager into a calm courteous driver or vice versa.

Certainly the cyclists were charged with assault and if Mass has a road rage law they were probably hit with that as well.

[bhungerford]

as much as you sometimes want to do that, it's just dumb, i've gotten into the habit of always waving and verbally thanking drivers that are courteous when they have a window open. Seems to me if they have a nice experience sharing a road with one cyclist, they probably will be courteous to the next cyclist they see.

but i've also been hit 4 times, each time the driver left me on the side of the road, so now i carry my cell phone and every car that passes me i practice remembering their plate ;) a hit and run isn't too good for the record.

[handsomerob]

http://www.universalhub.com/node/14500
http://www.wickedlocal.com/cambridge/news/x325166696

sounds like ulock injustice to me...

IMHO the cyclist in both stories took it too far. Sounds like they both just snapped.

[Alexi]

I have sense heard however the cyclist who dragged the people out of the jeep are painting a very different picture of what happened. The car was not "encroaching" on the bike lain but was deliberately swerving at them.

not that I condone what happened but we will see what transpires.

[Sandy]

Although I certainly don't condone what the cyclists did, my guess is it will have absolutely no effect either way. Most drivers in cities have already formed whatever attitudes they have about cyclists & cycling. Events such as this may be used as rationalization (for both sides) about their respective behaviors but don't usually turn a road rager into a calm courteous driver or vice versa.

Certainly the cyclists were charged with assault and if Mass has a road rage law they were probably hit with that as well.

I think that you are correct. It probably won't have any effect for most drivers as they undoubtedly have already developed their attitude towards cyclists, whatever that may be. I think the incidents will only make stronger the dislike of cyclists by some and tip some towards that for some of the more undecided. But overall, you are quite correct.


Sandy

[Blue Jays]

One should consider the best way to win friends and influence people before taking action.

[William]

I can neither confirm nor deny my presence in Mass-Oh-Chusetts on the day in question....as long as there is an active investigation in process.






William ;)

[Alexi]

well both happened within a .25 miles of paczki's domicile

[Keith A]

One of the biggest problems that we face is represented in the attitude of one of the people who replied to this article. They stated the following...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hate bikers. I honestly
By anon (not verified) | Mon, 05/12/2008 - 4:35pm

I hate bikers. I honestly don't care if the law says share the roads. I hate them and will continue to honk and flash my lights until the get out of my way.

sorry its just how i feel.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think there is a segment of the population that feels this way and there is nothing we can do to change it...and this scares the heck out of me to realize that there are people who hate me (or what I represent) just because I'm riding my bike.

[William]

well both happened within a .25 miles of paczki's domicile

I was not at his house barrowing his canoe nor checking out an old Liotto frame. :no:





William

[CMY]

I think there is a segment of the population that feels this way and there is nothing we can do to change it...and this scares the heck out of me to realize that there are people who hate me (or what I represent) just because I'm riding my bike.

One reason I refuse to wear the Superhero costume- you completely remove any semblance of similarity between you and the people piloting the cars. If you decide to take the lane and slow them down you're now at odds with their vehicles as well.

I know we have the right to be in the road and I know how much more sense cycling-specific clothing makes, but having been on the other side of the coin at one time I think it makes a huge difference in perception when you don't look like you just stepped off the TdF. I've logged quite a few miles now and (knock on wood) haven't had any run-ins with angry motorists. To quote Will Smith, "I make this look goooood". ;)

I'm not saying any of this to stir things up, but I do think the community generally insulates itself and views it as "us" vs. "them" but the reality is that neither side is willing to budge.. and they can do far more damage. Until we do make an effort to improve PR on the roads the situation is only going to get worse (it might be a shock, but we're the ones on the outside here) and it's entirely up to us to extend that olive branch.

C.

[Keith A]

I understand your points and do agree that WE need to not make any enemies. But I believe that even if we offered some people the entire olive tree, they would still think that we shouldn't be on the road with their vehicles and in their way.

[false_Aest]

It Wasn't Me!

[Sasha18]

Wow. I'm not going to condone the use of violence, but the immediate cyclist blaming responses are surprising to me on a bike forum. In the first case, the two cyclists claim they were swerved into, purposefully. In my mind, that's akin to shooting a handgun "near" someone. In the other case, the cyclist got mad because the person was about to make an illegal right turn, cutting the person off. In Portland and Seattle, this kind of move is responsible for a few cyclist fatalities in the past year. I wouldn't beat a person unconscious, but what is a reasoned response to this kind of reckless endangerment? I agree the press isn't good for cyclists, but that's equally a problem of reporting driver caused incidents.

[CMY]

But I believe that even if we offered some people the entire olive tree, they would still think that we shouldn't be on the road with their vehicles and in their way.

As I mentioned, I've been on both sides of the coin here.

The way I see it, I know that I can legally expect to have a portion of the road when I am on a bike. However within certain traffic conditions it might end up with me slowing/impeding those behind me.

Do we follow the "common courtesy" rule as often as we should? Is it right to hold up 15 cars behind you only because you legally have the right to? What would you do if the shoe was on the other foot and you were being blocked by a motorized wheelchair (or otherwise)?

We expect cars to slow up and give us room, but I've seen plenty of guys screaming at pedestrians on a bike/walk path to know that they don't extend that same courtesy to anyone else (and all have been in the Superhero costume). That's simply bad PR and extremely hypocritical- remember, pedestrians are drivers too. :)

Sometimes the focus on making a fast run takes precedence over common sense, but the truth is that automobiles will get out of your area remarkably fast (if you let them).

That being said, I don't think this attack was the cyclists fault- I'm just commenting on my own experiences in regards to the ongoing road relations problem.

[taylorj]

There is just no room (for bikes). Even driving in that area is challenging (if you are from the West Coast). I thought I had ridden in some pretty tough areas for cycling (I lived in San Francisco without a car for 10 years and worked in Palo Alto--40 miles South), but I had my a$$ handed to me a few times out East. The roads are narrow and the cars know how to drive them fast. I think the driver's are actually better in Boston than in LA for example---but they have no patience. In LA there are wider roads so there is room for two wheels and bad driver's. In Boston there is barely enough room for cars.

On Mass Ave, I always yielded to cars and expected them to be rude and not see me. I understand both sides too. And the car probably cut off the cyclist or it was the "final straw". Still---I recall after the mess of the 1997 critical mass in SF---all the messengers received all the blame for the bad behavior of a few. I always expect the worse from drivers. Not in Reno. But in densely populated areas. You're just invisible.

Ride safe!

[vaxn8r]

There is just no room (for bikes). Even driving in that area is challenging (if you are from the West Coast). I thought I had ridden in some pretty tough areas for cycling (I lived in San Francisco without a car for 10 years and worked in Palo Alto--40 miles South), but I had my a$$ handed to me a few times out East. The roads are narrow and the cars know how to drive them fast. I think the driver's are actually better in Boston than in LA for example---but they have no patience. In LA there are wider roads so there is room for two wheels and bad driver's. In Boston there is barely enough room for cars.

On Mass Ave, I always yielded to cars and expected them to be rude and not see me. I understand both sides too. And the car probably cut off the cyclist or it was the "final straw". Still---I recall after the mess of the 1997 critical mass in SF---all the messengers received all the blame for the bad behavior of a few. I always expect the worse from drivers. Not in Reno. But in densely populated areas. You're just invisible.

Ride safe!
Having lived in both places...I humbly disagree. Boston drivers do not have a good reputation even among other east coasters. They are aggressive however.

[William]

Having lived in both places...I humbly disagree. Boston drivers do not have a good reputation even among other east coasters. They are aggressive however.

You guys should try riding in Nothern/central Rhode Island. Boston drivers have nothing on them folks. :crap:





William

[taylorj]

Having lived in both places...I humbly disagree. Boston drivers do not have a good reputation even among other east coasters. They are aggressive however.

I guess I didn't mean better---just more skilled at being aggressive. I thought Boston had the rudest drivers of anywhere I have ever been or lived.
But they also have to deal with small narrow roads leaving little room for error. I agree with you.

[paczki]

I guess I didn't mean better---just more skilled at being aggressive. I thought Boston had the rudest drivers of anywhere I have ever been or lived.
But they also have to deal with small narrow roads leaving little room for error. I agree with you.

I think Boston drivers are overrated for awfulness. A few have tried to chase me down and kill me, but where I ride they are mostly at least aware that there might be a cyclist next to them. The dread cell phone has made it much worse, though.

The wide shoulders on Sandy Hill Road in Palo Alto sure were nice :banana:

[soulspinner]

[QUOTE=William]I can neither confirm nor deny my presence in Mass-Oh-Chusetts on the day in question....as long as there is an active investigation in process.


:) :cool: :p

[Boundgear]

1. Northern RI is worse.
2. Other than rich BU students, no one from Boston actually drives all that much.
3. The bad drivers from RI, NH, western, northern, and southern burbs drive into our fair city daily and Boston gets the rep for their stupid driving.

I don't like violence. Even if the car is attacking you. Nothing good comes of it. But car drivers can be insane and I totally understand wanting to beat them senseless.

[vaxn8r]

1. Northern RI is worse.
2. Other than rich BU students, no one from Boston actually drives all that much.
3. The bad drivers from RI, NH, western, northern, and southern burbs drive into our fair city daily and Boston gets the rep for their stupid driving.

I don't like violence. Even if the car is attacking you. Nothing good comes of it. But car drivers can be insane and I totally understand wanting to beat them senseless.
Good points. And Rhode Island drivers...not good either.

[inGobwetrust]

1. Northern RI is worse.
2. Other than rich BU students, no one from Boston actually drives all that much.
3. The bad drivers from RI, NH, western, northern, and southern burbs drive into our fair city daily and Boston gets the rep for their stupid driving.

I don't like violence. Even if the car is attacking you. Nothing good comes of it. But car drivers can be insane and I totally understand wanting to beat them senseless.


So you're saying that everyone surrounding Boston drives poorly but Boston drivers are okay? :rolleyes: Come on! There are bad drivers because it's tolerated, simple as that.

[Boundgear]

I'm trying to say that the whole region can't drive. Forget boston, try riding your bike at 6 in the afternoon in sudbury, braintree, or salem, you will find the same clowns making the same moves on narrower roads.

And yes, it is strange around here because no one does anything about bad driving around here.

[MassBiker]

It isn't just driving, its a general behavior issue in and around Boston, rudeness and lack of consideration for others is part of the Mass culture.......hence the term Masshole.
You have to learn to deal with it!

:beer: