Fenders?

[jpw]

Do I want fenders? I don't know.

As some may know I'm ordering a Legend CX and I have the option of specifying 'hidden bosses' inside the upper dropout 'apertures' and a corresponding chain stay bridge bolt. I've never previously ridden a bike with fenders and so I'm not
sure whether I should choose these fixtures for the frame. I've managed to survive to this point without fenders, and so are they a worthwhile addition or simply more equipment that could cause some technical inconvenience?

Should I add the bosses to the frame order, or not?

Thank you

Mr. U. N. Decided.

[dauwhe]

Fenders are the greatest thing since sliced bread... No, that's not right. I'd sooner give up sliced bread than fenders. My bike and I stay drier and cleaner, I stay happier!

Adding the mounting points to the frame has no downside...

Dave

[Alexi]

well what would adding the bosses detract from the frame? nothing... do it sou you'd have the ability in the future, even if you never run fenders having the chose is nice.

[Ray]

There's no downside to having them available, so definitely go for the bosses. And I'd assume Serotta is designing the frame with adequate clearance. A frame designed around long reach brakes (with a very low in the slot brake shoe placement) gives you a lot of options on a road bike. Both of my road bikes are fenderable - one usually has fenders on it and the other rarely does, but the option takes nothing away.

OTOH, if you live in southern Arizona...

-Ray

[jpw]

Ray

The frame is a cyclcross Legend, with the canti studs. There ought to be enough clearance, and if I do go with fenders then I'll make sure sufficient room is provided for in the design.

I'm leaning towards having these fixtures added. All three replies thus far recommend it. I'm just not sure how useful fenders are. When it's raining how do they help to keep me any drier than the waterproofs I would be wearing anyway in such conditions?

The only benefit I can see is if the road is wet but it has already stopped raining, and then I wouldn't be wearing waterproofs. It seems a marginal advantage at best to have fenders in such conditions - roads dry quite quickly most of the time and I only now occasionally suffer from 'wet back'.

Don't fenders just get in the way of racks, wheel changes, and general cleaning, and cause trouble if something gets in between the fender and the tyre when riding?

[Ray]

They keep you drier on a rainy day. You'll probably have some sort of rain jacket with a long tail on which keeps you more or less dry, or at least warm. The fenders keep the spray from coming up from underneath which will soak your shorts and spray road crap all over your legs and your drive-train. If its raining hard enough, you're gonna get soaked anyway, but not as much road grime. And on those days where its raining but not quite a deluge, they make a huge difference.

And, yeah, those mornings after a night rain when everyone else is scraping the dismembered worms off of their backs and brakes..... you won't have to worry about 'em - they'll be stuck to the inside of the fender.

-Ray

[dwightskin]

"Don't fenders just get in the way of racks, wheel changes, and general cleaning, and cause trouble if something gets in between the fender and the tyre when ridingi?
"

Properly mounted fenders don't interfere with wheel changes.

Fenders are a must-have for days that are 50F and raining. Those boys in the Tour de California that were complaining about the conditions in Stage 4 would have been riding happy if they had fenders (proper rain gear would have helped, too).

Having the option to mount fenders really adds to the versatility. Nobody is running fenders when they race cross or on sunny group rides. But if this bike ever becomes a commuter or an all-day randoneuring bike then the option to put on fenders is big.

[rwsaunders]

Go for the bosses. Many wish they had done so.

[rsl]

I say get the bosses too. When I had my bike built, my only regret is not adding bosses of this sort. I would love to be able to add fenders to my bike, and my next frame (which is probably a long way off) will have them for sure.

Also, it gives you an excuse to buy these:

[flickwet]

I love having fenders, I don't think the bike looks as cool with them on but they sure keep the mud and water off on training rides. I think fenders are becoming more esthetically pleasing with the growing acceptance of them due to their incredible usefulness. GET THE BOSSES, also for a cool vs. useful compromise Google "wood bicycle fenders" there are some amazing ones out there for not a lot of $

[flickwet]

Hey RSL where does one find those fenders. I have seen them in photos but can find no retailers for them, I WANT THEM! thanks in advance.

[rsl]

Hey RSL where does one find those fenders. I have seen them in photos but can find no retailers for them, I WANT THEM! thanks in advance.


I know, they're beautiful, eh?

They're called honjo fenders, and you can get them from Jitensha studio. I took a quick look at their website, and I didn't see online ordering info, but you could contact them and arrange it I'm sure. Here's the website:

http://jitensha.com/eng/e_index.html

[Alexi]

Flickwet

velo-orange.com
jitenshastudios.com

or any lbs that deals with merry sales can get them

[jthurow]

If you don't think you'll always want the fenders on, get the bosses. It makes it much easier to mount and dismount the Berthoud/Honjo/VeloOrange type fenders.

jimi

[mschol17]

In addition to the bosses you might want to make sure than the seatstay and chainstay bridges are equidistant from the dropout.

My wife's cross bike has plenty of room for fenders, but the chainstay bridge is about 1.5" further away than the seatstay bridge. This required an inelegant spacer solution that wouldn't have been necessary with a correctly placed bridge.

[jpw]

In addition to the bosses you might want to make sure than the seatstay and chainstay bridges are equidistant from the dropout.

My wife's cross bike has plenty of room for fenders, but the chainstay bridge is about 1.5" further away than the seatstay bridge. This required an inelegant spacer solution that wouldn't have been necessary with a correctly placed bridge.


Good point, thanks.

Do both bridges have mounting bolts?

[mschol17]

Good point, thanks.

Do both bridges have mounting bolts?

My wife's bike doesn't have mounting bolts on either bridge, which is a major pita. I would think that with canti studs there should be no problem putting threaded bosses on both bridges.

[vaxn8r]

Ray

The frame is a cyclcross Legend, with the canti studs. There ought to be enough clearance, and if I do go with fenders then I'll make sure sufficient room is provided for in the design.

I'm leaning towards having these fixtures added. All three replies thus far recommend it. I'm just not sure how useful fenders are. When it's raining how do they help to keep me any drier than the waterproofs I would be wearing anyway in such conditions?

The only benefit I can see is if the road is wet but it has already stopped raining, and then I wouldn't be wearing waterproofs. It seems a marginal advantage at best to have fenders in such conditions - roads dry quite quickly most of the time and I only now occasionally suffer from 'wet back'.

Don't fenders just get in the way of racks, wheel changes, and general cleaning, and cause trouble if something gets in between the fender and the tyre when riding?
Properly mounted fenders can be taken on and off pretty quickly, as in 10 minutes off and 20 minutes on or so. But my experience is people who use fenders either leave them on all year or at least only take them off seasonally.

The advatages to fenders are significant and can only be fully appreciated with a properly fendered bike. Jury rigged jobs are not as satisfying as they usually don't function as well (don't work as well, flap, wreck your paint and or your frame, can't be taken off easily). With real fenders the ride is actually enjoyable when you likely would be miserable fairly quickly without. You remain surprisingly, relatively dry. Road spray is 90% of what makes you wet, muddy and miserable. Finally, the bike is a breeze to clean up after a long wet one. Without fenders it's almost a complete overhaul each ride. Don't forget the etiquette quotient. I'm getting to the point if I show up for a wet ride and people don't have fenders I ride alone (unless getting ready for a race maybe).

I would definitely get the option to mount them. What's going to happen is you will love it but end up not wanting to take them on and off all the time. My guess is you'll buy another bike within a year, soley to have it fendered 365.

[bhungerford]

My guess is you'll buy another bike within a year, soley to have it fendered 365.

+1 best way to do it, don't have to worry about taking them on/off and you get ANOTHER BIKE! :beer:

[palincss]

I'm leaning towards having these fixtures added. All three replies thus far recommend it. I'm just not sure how useful fenders are. When it's raining how do they help to keep me any drier than the waterproofs I would be wearing anyway in such conditions?


Yes, certainly. Instead of spraying on your feet, in your face and up your butt, water coming off the tires will be caught by the fender and directed down to the road instead of onto you and onto the bike. You won't be hosed down with dirty road water and neither will your bike.



The only benefit I can see is if the road is wet but it has already stopped raining, and then I wouldn't be wearing waterproofs. It seems a marginal advantage at best to have fenders in such conditions - roads dry quite quickly most of the time and I only now occasionally suffer from 'wet back'.


I think you will be very pleasantly surprised when you actually try it. A lot of water gets sprayed off wet roads onto you, your gear and your bike. Keeping it off you and off your bike will be a big improvement.



Don't fenders just get in the way of racks, wheel changes, and general cleaning, and cause trouble if something gets in between the fender and the tyre when riding?

No, fenders don't get in the way of racks. If you have horizontal rear dropouts, it can make wheel changes more difficult; not so if you have vertical dropouts. In general, cleaning is dramatically improved with fenders because so much of the dirt you normally have to clean off never gets on the bike in the first place.

Yes a stick could in theory get caught between the fender and tire, but SKS plastic fenders have quick releases on the stays, and with properly mounted metal fenders this very seldom happens, and if it does, it typically doesn't result in the "fender-crumples-and-jams-the-tire-causing-a-crash" thing that can happen with plastic fenders.

[flickwet]

Yeah a pair of fenders ended up costing me about 1200 bucks cuz I built up a tricked out Surly 1x1 for wet snowy cold daze.

[palincss]

Hey RSL where does one find those fenders. I have seen them in photos but can find no retailers for them, I WANT THEM! thanks in advance.

Here are two sources:

http://jitensha.com/eng/fndrs_e.html

http://velo-orange.com/fenders.html

[palincss]

Properly mounted fenders can be taken on and off pretty quickly, as in 10 minutes off and 20 minutes on or so. But my experience is people who use fenders either leave them on all year or at least only take them off seasonally.

The advatages to fenders are significant and can only be fully appreciated with a properly fendered bike. Jury rigged jobs are not as satisfying as they usually don't function as well (don't work as well, flap, wreck your paint and or your frame, can't be taken off easily). With real fenders the ride is actually enjoyable when you likely would be miserable fairly quickly without. You remain surprisingly, relatively dry. Road spray is 90% of what makes you wet, muddy and miserable. Finally, the bike is a breeze to clean up after a long wet one. Without fenders it's almost a complete overhaul each ride. Don't forget the etiquette quotient. I'm getting to the point if I show up for a wet ride and people don't have fenders I ride alone (unless getting ready for a race maybe).

I would definitely get the option to mount them. What's going to happen is you will love it but end up not wanting to take them on and off all the time. My guess is you'll buy another bike within a year, soley to have it fendered 365.

Vaxn8r definitely gets it.
+1

[William]

Vaxn8r definitely gets it.
+1

You need to "get it" if you live in the PNW. Otherwise your long early season rides can get very miserable. I had a dedicated winter/rain bike with fenders when I lived in Oregon. It was a must imho.

Get the eyelets.




William

[jpw]

ok...ok....ok...you win, eyelets it is :-)

Should I go for an eyelet on both stay bridges as well as at the dropouts?

The fork and a fender could be a problem though. There is an Alpha Q fork with eyelets on the dropouts, but what happens up at the crown? What is the front of the fender going to fix to?

If this is an 'issue' I could go for another fork entirely, something like an IF steel CX fork, but again, where would the front of the fender attach? Remember, canti studs and not caliper brakes on my frame.

Muchos thanks.

[Alexi]

that fork still has a thru hole to mount a fender to

[Orin]

Another advantage of fenders with good mudflaps is that water from the front wheel doesn't get sprayed directly into the drivetrain and your feet.

After the average winter ride in the Seattle area without a good front mudflap, you could grow vegetables in the dirt that collected in the bottom bracket area.

Just this last Sunday, we had some light rain and very wet roads (we managed to ride between the rain squalls). I have a front fender with a Velo-Orange mudflap that comes within a couple of inches of the ground. I never bothered putting the waterproof jacket on. My feet and legs got wet, but mostly due to spray from the rider in front or behind.

So another vote for getting the bosses.

Orin.

[bironi]

I know the Berthoud fenders attach below the fork to the front break bolt, but you may also add a fender stay that shares the eyelets on the front fork. I am attaching a pic that show this, even though it is the bike hidden by the one in the foreground. Hope you get the idea.

[jpw]

I know the Berthoud fenders attach below the fork to the front break bolt, but you may also add a fender stay that shares the eyelets on the front fork. I am attaching a pic that show this, even though it is the bike hidden by the one in the foreground. Hope you get the idea.


Thanks for the energy to do this. Yes, I get the idea. I had though the the front quick release nut would block out the angle required for a front stay, but the picture proves it is possible. Thanks.

[jpw]

So which make of fender should I choose?

Honjo seem to get a good airing here.

Are wooden fenders a bad idea?

[rpm]

So which make of fender should I choose?

Honjo seem to get a good airing here.

Are wooden fenders a bad idea?

I have three fendered bikes, one with Honjos, one with Berthouds, and one with SKS plastic fenders. The metal fenders are much, much better than the plastic ones in protecting from road spray and in less upkeep. I like the Honjos best because they're longer and lighter than the Berthouds (at least in the models I have). Wooden ones may look nice, but the hammered Honjos also look very distinctive.

By the way if you get Bicycle Quarterly, you'll remember that Jan Heine did wind tunnel testing of bikes with and without fenders and found that fenders didn't really add that much drag

[jpw]

I hadn't considered wind drag. I've changed my mind :rolleyes: ...not. Keep 'em comin'. :)

[vaxn8r]

I hadn't considered wind drag. I've changed my mind :rolleyes: ...not. Keep 'em comin'. :)
It feels like their might be marginally more drag but it could be in one's/my head. You will likely notice a bit more side force in windy conditions, a bit like high profile rims but less so. These are subtle things I've noted which in no way detract from the larger advantages mentioned.

[thejen12]

I have the narrow-width Honjos (don't remember the size) mounted over Michelin PR2 tires, 25 mm width, nice and sleek (see my pictures in the Custom Image Gallery, A Tale of Two Rexes). When I stand to climb or sprint, it sounds like I can hear the fender hitting the tire briefly with each pedal stroke. Is that just because the extra force deforms the shape of the tire briefly and perhaps the fit is a little too tight to accomodate that? Or is it the side-to-side motion of the bike? The fenders seem to be mounted pretty tightly, they don't rattle or anything. Otherwise, everything is fine - no interference between the fender and the tire during normal riding.

Thanks, Jenn

[mschol17]

I have the narrow-width Honjos (don't remember the size) mounted over Michelin PR2 tires, 25 mm width, nice and sleek (see my pictures in the Custom Image Gallery, A Tale of Two Rexes). When I stand to climb or sprint, it sounds like I can hear the fender hitting the tire briefly with each pedal stroke. Is that just because the extra force deforms the shape of the tire briefly and perhaps the fit is a little too tight to accomodate that? Or is it the side-to-side motion of the bike? The fenders seem to be mounted pretty tightly, they don't rattle or anything. Otherwise, everything is fine - no interference between the fender and the tire during normal riding.

Thanks, Jenn

It is probably your fork flexing and your tire touching a bolt inside the fender. Try grinding down any bolts/nuts inside the fender that stick out too far.

I had the same problem with my 35 mm studded tires and my long-reach brake. Every time I stood the front fork would flex and the studs would touch the brake. After awhile there was a small track worn in the bottom of the brake...

[tbushnel]

that fork still has a thru hole to mount a fender to

Could use one of these too.

http://www.velo-orange.com/hodabofcreye.html

Or, if a steel fork, have it made with a threaded fork crown boss (see pic)

[Alexi]

Could use one of these too.

http://www.velo-orange.com/hodabofcreye.html



yeah but those are worthless if you dont have a hole thru witch to sucure the drop bolt

[Orin]

yeah but those are worthless if you dont have a hole thru witch to sucure the drop bolt


In which case, I tap the rear of the brake nut with an M6 tap (yes, the 5mm hex still works), attach an 'L' bracket to the fender and bolt the 'L' bracket to the brake nut with appropriate length M6 bolt, washers and spacers. There are special brake nuts with a threaded stud that will do the same job, but M6 taps are easier to come by IMO.

Orin.