Ti (or carbon) hardtail mtb riders?

[brokenladder]

hi,

so anyone on a ti or carbon hardtail mtb--especially 26"? i'm currently on a full susp specialized epic that i like well enough save for the weight penalty... i ride a custom eriksen ti on the road and it is wonderful. thinking that a ti hardtail would give me enough cush for my 1-2 hour normal mtb ride (tight, slow east coast single track with plenty of climbs). i have had a few 29ers but they didn't do it for me. don't get me wrong -- great idea and perfect for certain types of riding and perhaps *sized* riders... i also have a cross bike that i ride a lot when the weather turns cold here in the northeast.

so again interested to hear if others have bailed on the complexity and weight in favor of the tried and true geared hardtail (particularly those approaching middle-age types). of course it is fun to bomb downhills with the added margin of error that rear susp affords...

cheers!

[happycampyer]

I grew up riding steel hardtails and the whole FS thing has eluded me thus far so I can't offer that perspective, but I now have a Moots YBB and it is a phenomenal ride. There are plenty of great ti hardtails out there (I'm sure Kent Eriksen would be happy to build you one to go with your road bike...), but I would definitely put a YBB on your shortlist.

[ericspin]

I had a TiMax hardtail and really loved the ride, I just didn't ride it enough. Compared to my old Ellsworth Truth I thought it was a much better performer. Temper this with the fact that my all time favotite ATB is my IF Planet X, a cross geometry frame. I like the hardtail feel and found that when I had the Ellsworth I kept the rear locked out most of the time. Temper all of that with the fact that the TiMax was a 29er.

Have you considered one of Pacenti's 650B MTB's? Best of both worlds I hear but I'm not sure he does Ti.

So..........as I reread my post it seems that it may not offer you anything you asked for! :crap: Oh well, at least you have heard my opinion. Get the hardtail! :D

[Dave B]

Moots YBB is the best choice. Then it depends on how funky you want to get. IF TI deluxe is a brilliant bike, but there are many great bikes out there.

I say don't forget about steel. IF makes one of the best steel mtbs out there and they do great work.

How tall are you? If above 6 feet you really might look at a 29er, or also a 650B. Kirk P has really nailed the idea well. The bikes he makes for this simply kick booty!

Anyway glad to hear people talking mtbs!

[SpeedyChix]

Full sus is comfy (in 26 and 29" flavors) but for shear performance? Hard tail. A well designed ti hardtail can be real comfy.

Over 20+ years of mtb riding, frames have included
26" Klein alu, Trek steel, carbon Miyata, Merlin and Dean ti. Litespeed Unicoi (much like the Moots YBB) and an Ibis SilkTi.
FS alu (26 Racer X and a Lenz Lev 3" travel 29er)
29" hardtail: Kent Eriksen ti, Badger steel, Fisher Alu

Mostly ride midwest single track but have ridden eastern stuff in northern MA and southern NH.

All of this to say, that my current ride, a 29er Kent Eriksen hardtail rails on the tight / twisties here in a way that mimics the best of the 26" rides I've been on (the 26" Dean XLite hardtail, Unicoi or Silk Ti and RacerX being the best of those). Is it going to be right for your east coast riding, hard to say. Carbon? I'd go for ti anyday over carbon for a hardtail.

I'm not a tall rider (barely 5'6") and easily qualify as middle-aged. The Eriksen 29er was comfy enough to ride the Cohutta 100. Though a FS offers loads of cush over the long ride and certainly on rough descents.
I'll often take my CX bike to the woods so that's another '29er' hard tail ti of sorts.

So the short answer from me would be: go ti over carbon. Yes you can get an appropriately comfy hard tail ti mtb and it will be lighter and simpler than the FS. It won't be as comfy going downhill over the rough stuff nor uphill on fast bumpy stuff. The Erisken 29er comes close to the 26" RacerX though.

Have fun in the hunt and decision process!
Most of all: ride often.

[mgm777]

I am mostly a roadie, so factor that in when reading my advice on a MTB. I have a hard tail Ti 29er. I do ride some single track in the CO mtns with some friends who ride mostly FS MTBs. I am 43, weigh 160, and am in decent shape. I have not had a problem keeping up with my FS MTB Bretheren on Rocky Mtn single track. I like the simplicity of a hard tail. Also, I appreciate the weight savings. I do agree, however, on epic, long rides, a FS bike will be more comfortable in the long run. To answer the OPs initial question, it all depends on what & how much riding he does. If you ride mostly MTB on long, epic, technical, endurance fests, then a FS rig is probably the way to go. If however, you supplement your roadie fetish with an occassional MTB ride, like I do, then a good hard tail is all you need. IMHO, a hard tail is simpler, lighter, a better climber, and more versatile. It is not overkill on the bike path with the kids as a FS rig would be. :)

[Mud]

a Castellano Fango. Best of both worlds. Great bike. I am sorry I sold it. And a lot cheaper than a Moots!

[dookie]

my primary XC bike is an SS-converted kona king kahuna, 26" ti. it's magic. have never owned full sus, so maybe i just haven't seen the light. do you have specific questions, or just want to be convinced? you're welcome to try mine if you can ride a 17" in NC...

[brokenladder]

i currently ride a full susp specialized epic. i like it well enough. it's a bit longer than i'd like, but that's probably more a result of being between a small and a medium. it's also heavier than i'd like at i imagine 26+ pounds. but like an earlier responder wrote, i keep the suspension on the firmest setting so that and the weight issue have me thinking about the ti hardtail. i have to say, though, that [touch wood] the maintenance in two years has been virtually non-existent; it just works. however, if i want to go lighter i'm going to have to spend [even] bigger $$$ on a full susp or equally big $$$ on a ti hardtail...

the vast majority of my riding is one block away from my house in 700 acres of an urban park. it's a mix of singletrack and fire road-like main trails maintained by the park mgmt. the singletrack stuff is tight and twisty and constantly rising and falling (western pa). the epic is aluminum and i already have the usual bits upgraded (wheelset, seatpost, saddle, hbars, stem...) so there isn't much significant that i could do to bring the weight down. i've had a few 29ers and yes they're great when you can play to the momentum aspect; however it often felt like a slog (admittedly an off-the-rack fisher paragon...).

i have a cross bike as well and ride that fairly often. maybe i just hold out and see if the 650c wheel movement goes anywhere--or quit worrying about such nuisances and go read a book :-)

[Smiley]

Original Serotta TiMax a magical ride. Keep it simple is what i like about this ride.

[SpeedyChix]

i've had a few 29ers and yes they're great when you can play to the momentum aspect; however it often felt like a slog (admittedly an off-the-rack fisher paragon...).
My time on a Fisher 29er almost sealed the deal AGAINST big wheels. Did NOT like to corner. The 650 is of interest.

though, in the end...yes: ride. enjoy.

[Ken Robb]

I'll state the obvious: the smoother the ground the less value I put on suspension. I have my 1989 MB-3 and a FS Marin Rift Zone. On smooth or sandy trails the rigid bike is fine and it's better on pavement too. I often ride from my home to the cyclo-cross course at UCSD hence the road riding.

Once I get there though I can't ride a lot of the rocky, bumpy trails on it. Without even talking about the comfort factor I need the extra control of both ends of the bike and the extra traction climbing over rough terrain.

I rode there a couple of times with a 30-ish guy with lots of bmx racing background and a hardtail mtn. bike. I was amazed by his skill at swallowing bumps with his legs and body position through the roughest stuff I was willing to ride on my FS bike. Heck, on the rare occasions that cross races are held here anymore I am blown away by how the racers on 30-ish mm. cross tires ride through this stuff--not the really nasties but pretty tough.

My take is that some of us need the fs to make up for a lack of skill in rough riding. Sometimes I ride the not-too-tough sections on my Riv Allrounder with 700x32mm tires but very slowly. The fs bike is like a magic carpet.

Another consideration: with fs bike I can ride tires at 50psi to get to the trails and still do ok in the rough stuff and then ride home on the road. With the rigid bike I want about 30-35 psi off road which makes for a sluggish ride to get there on the road. Sometimes I put in 60psi to get there, drop the pressure to play in the dirt and ride home on squishy tires.

As DBRK would say, forgive my prolixity, but I've never owned a hardtail. When they first came out I tried them and didn't think suspension at the front alone was worth the extra weight and complexity and the early double-boingers didn't impress me either. Once the fs was further developed though I bought one and never regretted it.

FWIW, if you can borrow a Moots with YBB you can lock out the rear suspension to compare the ride with and without it on the same bike on the same trail. You may like it as it is a halfway meeting of the rigid/light vs. plush/heavier schools of thought. I didn't say YBB was reall heavy--just heavier.

[jazznap]

I'm another that has gone HT to FS and now back to HT (or rather softtail). I loved my Ellsworth Truth but didn't want to deal with the maintenance or rattling of a FS anymore. Also, I really missed the feel of a HT. For me, there's just something about finessing through and around the rough stuff that appeals to me more than plowing/rolling over it. Now I ride a Litespeed Unicoi (26") and a Moots Mooto-X YBB (29"). Both have their upsides and ride quite differently.

[chuckred]

Started with fully rigid in the early days of mountain biking. I thought the 2.3 tires were pretty plush!

Finally moved to front suspension and thought it was an amazing difference.

Then went to full suspension - and it was an even more amazing difference.

I won't be going back (although I did have fun riding an old Cannondale headshock on CA fire roads).

But, any bike can be fast with the right motor. I got absolutely smoked by a guy on a Vanilla rigid single speed yesterday - both on the way up and back down- on a smooth single track trail. I was't particularly trying to keep up with him, but it wouldn't have mattered if I was!

But, that doesn't mean that rigid single speeds are faster - but the guy riding it for sure was! Who's to say that he wouldn't have been even faster on a dual suspension? Or a geared hard tail?

In the end - you have to ride what works for the conditions where you live and what you're comfortable on.