Lower Q Cranks...suggestions please

[Germanboxers]

After a full season of riding DA-10 cranks and struggling with various "oddities" in my pedal stroke, I've decided I may need to consider lower Q cranks. I'm not sure that a lower Q crank will eliminate the "oddities"? Right leg is perfect, left leg has a "kink" in the stroke every 10 strokes or so and feels like my foot is always pulling out of the shoe, plus fellow riders swear that it looks like I'm sitting on my saddle crooked from behind, but from the front look perfectly fine. Clearly I have some structural issues (I'm looking at custom shoes and/or inserts); however, I can't get over the feeling that it feels like I'm pedalling on a YMCA stationary cycle at times because of the width between my pedals. Perhaps it's just psychological, but it seems that my late 80's Ultegra 7spd cranks were much closer and I could spin much more smoothly.

Any suggestions? Does Campy Chorus cranks/BB have a significantly lower Q thank DA10? Can I mix the Campy chainrings with the DA10 chain, cassettes, and Front Derailleur? Thanks in advance for the help!!

[Kurt]

If you are Q sensitive it is not something you want to ignore, riding the wrong width can sideline you for a long time. That said, to get an accurate measurement (don’t trust published figures) remove the non-drive crank and put it parallel to the other one and take a measurement. The standard record stuff is 147mm exactly. The FSA compact listed @ 150 is more like 152 – killed my knees after one use. Forget triples, Q will be @ least 160. You will know if you have Q issues because your knees will hurt on the inside.

[Germanboxers]

My knees did hurt this summer on the upper inside portion. Made it tough to climb while seated at times and moving forward on the seat to hammer was definitely painful. I wasn't sure if this was a Q issue because I had so many "oddities" with my left leg pedal stroke... didn't know if it was a compensation of some sort causing the pain.

Anyone know what the DA10 Q is? I suppose I should just do as you say and measure it. I thought the FSA stuff was supposed to be of fairly low Q? You didn't find that to be the case?

[christian]

If you're looking for narrow Q (tread) doubles, I'd recommend having a look at the TA Zephyr (still available in some lengths from PJW) and the Sugino PX.

I don't think the PX will be good for big rings bigger than 46-48, due to the small bcd, but it has very low Q.

- Christian

[Too Tall]

Put some hard work into measuring your bike(s) and even go to the extent of checking both crank arms are the same. Are both cleats centered over the pedal axel and located in the same place on both shoes? Small functional leg length discrepencies are routinely delt with by moving one cleat forward and the other back....so suppose that were the case with no actual leg length discrepency.

[Kurt]

My knees did hurt this summer on the upper inside portion. Made it tough to climb while seated at times and moving forward on the seat to hammer was definitely painful. I wasn't sure if this was a Q issue because I had so many "oddities" with my left leg pedal stroke... didn't know if it was a compensation of some sort causing the pain.

Anyone know what the DA10 Q is? I suppose I should just do as you say and measure it. I thought the FSA stuff was supposed to be of fairly low Q? You didn't find that to be the case?

upper-inside, welcome to the club. do your knee's sometimes brush the tt? I have wore paint off some tt's that one of the reasons I went ti this time around. Don't over look pedals, I don't know from anything except speedplay's which have a low Q and you can also order the ti ones which has a spindle 3mm less per side. if you already have sp's the ti spindle can be ordered alone. If you shoe can be moved towards the crankarms without too much rubbing this may also work on you standard setup.

[shinomaster]

CAmpy record!!

[DfCas]

Are your D/A arms close to the chainstays? If so,then no crank can get you closer.If they are out from the chainstays,then narrowing is probably possible.

One of the great losses with Octalink/ISIS BB are the lack of tunability.Square tapered spindles were available in ~3mm increments,allowing us to use the minimum spindle length and some shims and have some control over Q and chainline.If your 109.5 Octalink spindle is too long,tough luck.

If your arms are close to the stays,maybe you can change the spacing at the pedal/cleat interface.Keywin offers different spindle lengths and I "think" Speedplay does too.(The 3 models are different materials and lengths).Some cleats can be moved outward on the shoe,moving your feet closer.

I wish some aftermarket company would star making Octalink and ISIS BB's in alternate lenghts and get us out of spindle length jail.

Dan C.

[Germanboxers]

I use the newer Shimano DA pedals... I don't think there is much adjustment I can undertake with these pedals/cleats? Speedplays scare me, mostly because as a Sprinter, I'd be very worried about all the float and possibly pulling out of my pedals.

Too Tall: I was fitted by a Serotta fit specialist (twice actually by two different fitters) and I believe my position is relatively correct. Both have noted that my left leg is bowed out a bit near the knee/upper calf and looks longer than the right. I also have Fred Flintstone feet (very wide all the way back to the front part of the heel) and finding shoes that fit has been impossible. This likely contributes to other issues I'm sure. I'm actually looking at getting casts made for some LUST shoes.

Does anyone know if the 7spd Ultegra cranks from 1990 era are of a lower Q than the current DA10? I never had any problems with knees when I used to ride (early - mid 20's), but then again, I'm also 15+ years older now too.

[Dekonick]

go custom my man. Go custom.

You will not regret it.

[DfCas]

I had the X's years ago,and then used Look,Keywin,Coombe Pro's,Time Impacts and recently Speedplay Zero's.The Zeros are my favorite of all.I'm a sprinter type and these feel very solid.If you want even more retention,they are available in a "track" model,with seriously hard exit.The Zeros feel nothing like the X's,and you can move the cleat inward/outward,twist the cleat a little,and limit inward/outward float.
I used the Coombes for years and all of a sudden I developed some knee pain,and thought maybe a change would do me good.I think the Coombes are the highest quality pedal I've ever used and I hate to give them up,but my knees feel better now

You may consider the Big Meat/Lemond Lewedge shims too.Who knows which way to use them,but it may be worth the effort to see if they help with the pain.

Dan C.

[jeffg]

For Shimano, try a TA Alize 135 BCD crank with matched Horus rings.

If compact, I would consider a TA Zephyr or the new PMP Microroad that uses a DA 10 style BB with a 147 Q. I love my current PMP, even more than my Campy crank.

[christian]

For Shimano, try a TA Alize 135 BCD crank with matched Horus rings.

TA Alize' cranks are 130 BCD, and take Alize' and Hegoa (Alize' Light) rings. The Horus rings (135 BCD) are intended for Campagnolo cranks, and do not fit any current TA cranks.

- Christian

[jeffg]

TA Alize' cranks are 130 BCD, and take Alize' and Hegoa (Alize' Light) rings. The Horus rings (135 BCD) are intended for Campagnolo cranks, and do not fit any current TA cranks.

- Christian
Sorry ... That's what happens when you write quickly from a handheld. The point is that you can get a low Q TA crank that will be compatible with Shimano so that you don't need to use a Campagnolo crank. Yes, they are 130 BCD.

[shinomaster]

Ok Chorus Carbon cranks..

[zap]

Short of triples, anything other than today's ShimaNO has a narrower Q, including old Ultegra. If you have one lying around, give it a shot.

[Too Tall]

Gotcha. Still, I'd encourage you to take control of the measures and check some things with a tape and sharpie pen...you never know and be surprised how often I find the simplest things wrong on folks setup. Hey, you can't go wrong with Bart. I'm due to get my SECOND set of shoe from him soon....plase give him my best and congratulate him on getting married.

[gdw]

7-8 speed Ultegra's (M6400) had a Q of 147mm.
Dura Ace M7410 - 149mm
Ritchey 130mm road double - 142mm

If you think Shimano's newer road cranks have wide Q's you should try their mountain cranks. They are way too wide for my knees and have caused the same knee problems you're experiencing.

[sharky]

Try measuring the distance from one crank arm aligned with the down tube to the center of the down tube. Then measure the other side in the same way. Check to see if they are the same. If you can't adjust your cleats, I would try another crankset or pedal. My TA 110 crankset has a lower q than my Dura Ace 7700, also if you use a Phil Wood bottom bracket you can move the crankset slightly to the left or right, I think by about 5mm. I have no experience with the 7800 cranks but the first thing I would check is to see if the crank arms are equally distant from the center of the downtube. Some of the distances from my crank arm to center of down tube vary by as much as 5mm