Ride comparison: Litespeed vs. Moots

[kobyson]

I've been on a Litespeed Tuscany for the past few years and am interested in a frameset with a bit more responsiveness. I've heard the standard Moots is snappier than the Tuscany, but isn't necessarilly a harsh ride. Anyone have any insight into a comparison of these frames? Thx.

[Ken Robb]

really hard to compare because it's so subjective as to what "snappy" means. Litespeed made many changes to the frames they called Tuscany over the years. It looked like they were trying for stiffer frames going to ever-bigger and more shaped tubes so we don't know at what end of the Tuscany spectrum (sorry Tom) your bike fits. I have a ti Hampsten Strada Bianca that was made by Moots and it is a delight to ride. It has the YBB rear end and still seems to get the power down well when I pedal smoothly. Since Moots, Hampsten, Spectrum, and our gracious hosts at Serotta all make custom ti frames you can get whatever degree of "snappiness" you desire. I will say that the Legend that I owned and the Fierte ti that I tested were both stiffer and less prone to wobble than the Litespeed that I owned. That is none on the Serottas and not much at all on the Litespeed either.

[vaxn8r]

If it were my money going for ti road frame it would be a Legend or a Spectrum. Everything else would be a distant third. Not that ther is no one else who can do ti well, but Serotta and Kellog have years of experience and references of thousands of very happy riders. When I looked at what riders consistently praise, it's those two. You just don't hear many negatives on them.


Litespeed changes their bikes every year. I owned a Litespeed and it was far down on my list of favorite rides. Moots seems to have a following as does Bill Holland, Bill Davidson, IF, Seven etc. I'd even get a Merlin EL over a Litespeed. Even though they are made at the same facility Merlin seems to have a more consistent design philosophy...I think thanks to Tom Kellog's influence.

[SoCalSteve]

If it were my money going for ti road frame it would be a Legend or a Spectrum. Everything else would be a distant third. Not that ther is no one else who can do ti well, but Serotta and Kellog have years of experience and references of thousands of very happy riders. When I looked at what riders consistently praise, it's those two. You just don't hear many negatives on them.


Litespeed changes their bikes every year. I owned a Litespeed and it was far down on my list of favorite rides. Moots seems to have a following as does Bill Holland, Bill Davidson, IF, Seven etc. I'd even get a Merlin EL over a Litespeed. Even though they are made at the same facility Merlin seems to have a more consistent design philosophy...I think thanks to Tom Kellog's influence.

I have owned plenty of Ti bikes over the years and by far, both Moots that I have owned (and still own the Compact SL) are by far the nicest Ti bikes I have ever ridden. It's too bad that you find it a distant third as well as all the other nice Ti bikes...Your missing out on something very special.

Just sayin'

Steve

[bronk]

Have had 2 Ti bikes in the last year -- Legend and Moots Vamoots. The Legend I love. The Moots I didn't. The Legend feels like a part of me. The Moots felt like I was riding on something. The Moots is no longer in the stable. The Legend is the go-to ride.

[Pete Serotta]

Moots is nice AS IS A SEROTTA Ti.......THE SEROTTA tubing is more advanced (ie double or triple butted based on model and size.

I've been on a Litespeed Tuscany for the past few years and am interested in a frameset with a bit more responsiveness. I've heard the standard Moots is snappier than the Tuscany, but isn't necessarilly a harsh ride. Anyone have any insight into a comparison of these frames? Thx.

[Buzz]

This just goes to show you how subjective all of this is. I have the exact opposite experience of the poster above. My new Hampsten Ti built by Moots and designed by Steve Hampsten is awesome.

Ultimately I think the most important factor is who is fitting / designing your bike.

[vaxn8r]

Nothing against Moots, or Seven or Holland or any I didn't list in my top two. If Steve H was in on the design of my Hampsten/Moots I wouldn't care who joined it together because he clearly "gets it". Go ahead and put that one in my top 3. Ti is so friggin expensive I wouldn't want to make a mistake. I personally ruled out a bunch because reports I've heard and read were more mixed. Maybe if you're like Swoop and you know 100% what to tell the builder you're looking for, that's another case where it may not matter who joins the pipes.

I do think there is something about Serotta ti that's special and set apart from others. I hope they never stop making it.

[Blue Jays]

Titanium won't ever go away as a framebuilding material. It has wonderful properties for a bicycle. :beer:

[Fixed]

i like the pres's bike
imho

[michael white]

clearly it's not fair to compare a Tuscany and a Moots is it? wouldn't that be like saying, hey, let's talk Miyata vs. Richard Sachs, which is better?

[Ken Robb]

clearly it's not fair to compare a Tuscany and a Moots is it? wouldn't that be like saying, hey, let's talk Miyata vs. Richard Sachs, which is better?

well the OP wanted to know how they would compare---he didn't say anything about "fair". Tongue bitten.

[djg21]

I've been on a Litespeed Tuscany for the past few years and am interested in a frameset with a bit more responsiveness. I've heard the standard Moots is snappier than the Tuscany, but isn't necessarilly a harsh ride. Anyone have any insight into a comparison of these frames? Thx.

Don't rule out the Lynskeys!

[Kane]

Since you already have a Ti bike, why not get a carbon bike or one of those Fierte Carbon/Ti mixes. I have my eye on a Ron Cooper for the pure beauty of the bike. But, I'm going to get a five inch carbon Ibis Mojo mtn bike, long before I go for the 'new' road bike.

Most of the boutique builders make very nice bikes, but a bike that fits is a joy!

Cheers,

Kane

[djg21]

Since you already have a Ti bike, why not get a carbon bike or one of those Fierte Carbon/Ti mixes. I have my eye on a Ron Cooper for the pure beauty of the bike. But, I'm going to get a five inch carbon Ibis Mojo mtn bike, long before I go for the 'new' road bike.

Most of the boutique builders make very nice bikes, but a bike that fits is a joy!

Cheers,

Kane

Call me a luddite, but I don't buy into the carbon hype, and I think that carbon MTBs are a really bad idea unless you are racing at a level where you get free replacements every time you crash.

[BoulderGeek]

I had a Tuscany, a 2004 with Dura Ace 9.

I really, really wanted to like it. I had been looking at bikes and talking to folks for a long time. I wanted Ti (I really wanted a Colnago Oval Master) but just couldn't swing the price of a Moots (and I live in Colorado, heck I'd drive up to get one to save a hundred).

The Tuscany was really wishy-washy under accelleration. it swayed, it just didn't track the way I liked. My scandium Rocky Mountain was much better for me.

I now have a Serotta Nove in stock geometry, and it is pure joy every time I ride it.

If it were my money and advice to step up froma Litespeed, I'd look to a Fierte IT or Ti. Yeah, I'm sure a vamoots is super nice, as well. I'm really so blown away by the responsiveness of my Nove, I wouldn't consider much different at this point.

[Dave B]

To the OP,

You asked about Litespeed and Moots. As most topics on bikes here people all have their opinions and they love to give them. Many of the bikes also mentioned are great bikes, from great builders.

I have a Moots, Vamoots to be exact. It is not an SL which is there 6/4 tubing, but I could care less.

It is a a great bike. I have only ever ridden one LS and it was ok. I enjoyed the ride, but one ride and I do not feel as qualified to give any sort of comparison.

I can speak for Moots. Like many companies Moots does a great job on thir bikes. Most are stock geo, but of course for extra they can do custom for size, weight, tubing etc.

many people say they have one of the best welders in the bizz. I don't know, the welds as nice as they are are not something I worry about (how they look) when I ride.

Their decals crack, but it isn't a huge issue. They sell their posts and stems at a ridicoulsy high cost, more then almost anythign else on the market. Seat post is nice, but the stem is silly to pay almost $400 for a stem.

Now about the ride. It is great. I am heavy, the bike does great. Climbs, blah blah blah.

Moots makes great bikes. They don't change their designs to their road bikes as much as their mountain bikes. Even that is not often.

If you are chosing over these two only, then I say get a moots 11 times out of 10. But I also am some body who loves the bike I ride, whom you don't know.

I think if one makes you more excited then that is the one you are probably goin gto be happiest with. Enjoy it whatever it is! :beer:

[Bob Ross]

Where do you (the OP) live?

I live in NYC. I see more Litespeeds on the roads around here than nearly any other brand that's not Trek/Giant/Specialized/Cannondale. Litespeeds are ubiquitous. No, they're worse than ubiquitous, they're an infestation! I'm pretty sure they were one of the biblical plagues: boils, frogs, locusts, Litespeeds, slaying of the first born...

Whereas I've seen a total of three Moots on the roads around NYC in the past 2 or 3 years. But man, those three bikes looked good...

So I know what my decision would be, and I've never even ridden either one!
:)

[brians647]

really hard to compare because it's so subjective as to what "snappy" means. Litespeed made many changes to the frames they called Tuscany over the years. It looked like they were trying for stiffer frames going to ever-bigger and more shaped tubes so we don't know at what end of the Tuscany spectrum (sorry Tom) your bike fits. I have a ti Hampsten Strada Bianca that was made by Moots and it is a delight to ride. It has the YBB rear end and still seems to get the power down well when I pedal smoothly. Since Moots, Hampsten, Spectrum, and our gracious hosts at Serotta all make custom ti frames you can get whatever degree of "snappiness" you desire. I will say that the Legend that I owned and the Fierte ti that I tested were both stiffer and less prone to wobble than the Litespeed that I owned. That is none on the Serottas and not much at all on the Litespeed either.

I had a Litespeed Siena once, and exprienced the wobble issue as well. Went to a Colnago CT2, and couldn't be happier. I love many of the qualities of ti.

[Dave B]

Went to a Colnago CT2, and couldn't be happier.


Oh I used to have one of those. God I loved it. B-stay

Miss that one terribly.

[Jeff N.]

A Litespeed Tuscany is what I would consider "entry level" Ti and not in the same league as ANY of the other custom Ti rides mentioned thus far. There, I said it. I mean...COME ON, people...Jeff N.

[Pete Serotta]

Yeah, my decision would be to buy a LEGEND Ti or a CONCOURS..... :cool: :cool:


Where do you (the OP) live?

I live in NYC. I see more Litespeeds on the roads around here than nearly any other brand that's not Trek/Giant/Specialized/Cannondale. Litespeeds are ubiquitous. No, they're worse than ubiquitous, they're an infestation! I'm pretty sure they were one of the biblical plagues: boils, frogs, locusts, Litespeeds, slaying of the first born...

Whereas I've seen a total of three Moots on the roads around NYC in the past 2 or 3 years. But man, those three bikes looked good...

So I know what my decision would be, and I've never even ridden either one!
:)

[kobyson]

It may be obvious to everyone that I'm new to the throbbing brain of cycling expertise that is this forum, so thanks very much for all the intel.

[Michael Maddox]

It may be obvious to everyone that I'm new to the throbbing brain of cycling expertise that is this forum, so thanks very much for all the intel.

I'd argue that it's more of a throbbing red monkey-butt, but whatever.

[catulle]

Moots is a class act. Best ride I've ever had. Other Ti frames I've seen look shoddy in comparisson to a Moots.

[Michael Maddox]

Moots is a class act. Best ride I've ever had. Other Ti frames I've seen look shoddy in comparisson to a Moots.

Having just received my Moots, I must concur. I've never seen welds quite so nice, no matter what the brand.

[vaxn8r]

Having just received my Moots, I must concur. I've never seen welds quite so nice, no matter what the brand.
But the pipes and 3DXL dropouts of a Legend are sexxxyier atmo.

[rePhil]

I have my same old story. I was looking for a quality Ti. I couldn't justify a new one so I kept looking, mostly for a Legend, but a quality anybrand in my size. After a few months I found a used Moots Compact. The price was fair so I bought it.
The bottom line is that I will never willingly part with it. It fits, and in fact has the same numbers as my custom steel. The ride is superb.
What set it apart for me are a few little things. Welded bottle bosses and seatpost clamp. While the welds are great, more importantly it tells me the attention to detail is there. I like the large chainstays, and the dropouts.
I think Moots does more off the peg sales, compared to custom from Serotta.
Custom is maybe not so good to buy used if it was built for someone on the other side of stiffness and weight.
I wonder how I would feel had I found a Legend in my size. As it stands now I will never know.

[Ti-Boy]

When I reluctantly took up road riding after years of mountain biking, I bought a Tuscany. Soon found out I loved the road thing and it would be part of the rest of my life. Six months after the Tuscany purchase I ordered a Moots Vamoots (rode/ride a Moots mountain bike). No comparison between the two. Get the Moots.

[mike p]

My fav. ti bikes, Serotta, Moots, and Eriksen. Best for the $$$, Eriksen.

Mike

[Fixed]

bro i never had a moots but i have seen them and they look great .i have raced on a legend ti and l.speed ti and a clark kent ti ..the c.k. was my fav .cheers
i got the wows from the other cats when i showed up on the legend ti though
imho :beer:

[rnhood]

As someone on another forum once said, just flip a coin. And, keep flipping it until the name Moots comes up. Then buy one.