Lyme Disease In Cyclists And Pet Owners

[Sandy]

Lyme disease, a bacterial infection normally transmitted by a deer tick about the size of a sesame seed, is a very serious illness found in humans and some pets. It is very prevalent in certain areas of the country. I know two cyclists who had lyme disease. One was very sick for several weeks and one developed late stage lyme disease which greatly limted his cycling. He died at the age of 54, probably not from lyme disease. My next door neighbor's dog contrated lyme disease several years ago and the dog is in the house probably 95% of its life. I met a neighbor several days ago who has lyme disease presently

My brother lives in New York in an area wtih a large number of deer and he said that the incidence of lyme disease is very high there. Dogs often get lyme disease in affected areas. I think the incidence of lyme disease in cats is very limited or hardly even exists.

I recently had my dog inoculated for lyme disease- a shot followed by another about 2 weeks later. As I am in an area with deer, walk my dog near and sometimes through woods with deer, and ride (when I am riding) in areas with deer, I am wondering if I should get inoculated for lyme disease. Have any of you received lyme inoculation shots and have you inoculated your dog for such?

The northeast region of the USA has a high incidence of the disease.

Thanks for any input.



Sandy

[Ginger]

Good luck with that Sandy. Unless they started up again, they have not been producing the vaccine for people for several years as it wasn't economically feasible to produce it. Oh...and it had some very adverse reactions in a few people...if I remember right.

I contracted lyme disease after hiking in northern Michigan (still had the rash when I went to the doc). Went through the antibiotics immediately. Evidently not much worse for wear.

They say supposedly you need the tick to be on you for 18-24 hours to contract the disease...so if you're bathing every day, and paying attention, you're not as likely to have the problem.

[znfdl]

My wife is on her second round of lyme disease and a long course of anti-biotics.

Her problem is that it exascerbates her rheumatoid-athritis.

Are there any potential side effects of the innoculation?

PS: How is King?

[Sandy]

Good luck with that Sandy. Unless they started up again, they have not been producing the vaccine for people for several years as it wasn't economically feasible to produce it.

I contracted lymes disease after hiking in northern Michigan (still had the rash when I went to the doc). Went through the antibiotics immediately. Evidently not much worse for wear.

They say supposedly you need the tick to be on you for 18-24 hours to contract the disease...so if you're bathing every day, and paying attention, you're not as likely to have the problem.

You were fortunate. From what I understand, if lyme disease is diagnosed early and anitbiotics are given for a few weeks, the outlool is excelltnt with no lingering problems. If it is not diagnosed early and treated, the disease can progress with very serious effects. My brother, a physician, said that treatment in later stages of the disease is not agreed upon and not so clear as what to do. Glad that you were diagnosed and treated early.


Sandy

[don'TreadOnMe]

The vaccine for humans is waaaay off the market.
Google it, class action lawsuitS. FDA weirdness. Bad juju.

You _have_ to be careful out there, especially in the woods/long grass.
Make sure your pets are vaccinated, and Frontline them every month.

Don't mess w/the Lyme disease nightmare, just don't.

[rphetteplace]

btw Sandy the vaccines for lyme are nowhere near 100% effective. I can't remember the exact statistic, but my dog tested positive after having been vaccinated. It's very important for a head to toe check over at night.

[Peter P.]

I caught Lyme Disease last July. Went to the doctor while I still had the rash; the flu-like symptoms had already appeared. Time between the bite and the symptoms was less than a week. It was my first case in 10 years of being in the woods.

Doctor gave me a prescription for 3 weeks of antibiotics. I was fine and off them in 5 days.

I bushwack off-trail at least once a week. I was bitten on exposed skin. So now I take small precautions.

I wear long sleeves. Never wear shorts.
Sometimes bug spray; only if I'm getting buzzed a lot.

That's it.

You should have no problem on a mountain bike as long as you stay on the trails. The fact that you're moving helps a lot.

[sspielman]

Lyme disease is widespread in my field of work and geographic area. Let me bust a couple of myths that seem to be everywhere within what you read on the subject. First, it is not just deer ticks that transmit the disease...ANY tick can be a vector. Most of the people that I have worked with who have had the disease NEVER found the tick with the rash that caused it. Second, you are not just at risk in the woods. Tall grass/weeds is the most likely place to pick up a tick...such as at the edge of a woods. If you get a tick bite and develop the early symptoms (rash, flu symptoms) get on the antibiotic QUICKLY. If your doctor won't prescribe it, FIRE HIM and get another. I know a dozen people who have had the disease progress to the tertiary stage with neurological symptoms...one person suffers from insomnia...and the other person has lost her ability to comprehend from reading(!)...she can only remember things that she hears (isn't that bizarre?..but the neurologist says that there are lots of other cases in the literature) Having said all of this, my own doctor holds the opinion that the whole Lyme phenomenon is largely overblown....there are serious cases, but it is a fashionable syndrome at the moment...like neuralgia...I have had the disease three times...and caught it right after the tick bite in each case.

P.S. The vaccine was horrible....for both humans and animals. I got my Bearded Collie vaccinated (because i could never find ticks in his long hair)..and he got rather ill for a couple of days after each shot....

[bpm]

I have had lyme disease as has my 4 year old daughter. I pulled a dear tick out of my shoulder so I got checked out a couple of days later. Lyme test was positive so I was put on a course of antibiotics. Never developed any symptoms. My daughter had the bullseye rash and a mild fever. She was also put on antibiotics and everything cleared up fine.

A few years back, one of my colleagues went undiagnosed for several months (never had the typical symptoms so they never tested for it) and he ended up with some lingering effects. Had a pretty severe case of Bell's Palsy (facial paralysis) that still is present to a much lesser degree after 5 years. Severe joint pain that caused him to give up cycling, and most physical activities, for a couple of years too.

[Sandy]

My wife is on her second round of lyme disease and a long course of anti-biotics.

Her problem is that it exascerbates her rheumatoid-athritis.

Are there any potential side effects of the innoculation?

PS: How is King?

Sorry to hear about your wife. Isn't lyme disease one of the causal factors of arthritis? My brother mentioned that there is great disagreement on treating later stages of lyme disease. Some don't believe in extended useage of an antibiotic.

King is doing very well. Still afraid of taking a walk that is not consistent in turns and roads that he is familiar with. Love the guy. He is sleeping next to me in one of his three beds he has in the house. I have to feed him breakfast (at 1:00). He has an amazing appetite. Thanks for asking!


Sandy

[Sandy]

The vaccine for humans is waaaay off the market.
Google it, class action lawsuitS. FDA weirdness. Bad juju.

You _have_ to be careful out there, especially in the woods/long grass.
Make sure your pets are vaccinated, and Frontline them every month.

Don't mess w/the Lyme disease nightmare, just don't.

You mean don't consider taking human lyme disease inoculation shots?


Sandy

[Sandy]

btw Sandy the vaccines for lyme are nowhere near 100% effective. I can't remember the exact statistic, but my dog tested positive after having been vaccinated. It's very important for a head to toe check over at night.

I know that humans may have lyme disease and not even test positive for the disease. I don't check myself out very much which is foolish. I pet and rub my dog so much that I would probably see a tick, even a little one. But I should be more proactive in it Thanks. He does have short white hair (mostly) which makes it much easier.


Sandy

[don'TreadOnMe]

You mean don't consider taking human lyme disease inoculation shots?


Sandy

Yep, that's what I mean, "Don't get the human vaccine for Lyme".
LYMErix = BAD

The Lyme vaccine for canines, on the other hand, works differently, and is a good idea if your animal lives/roams/romps in risky areas.

[Sandy]

Lyme disease is widespread in my field of work and geographic area. Let me bust a couple of myths that seem to be everywhere within what you read on the subject. First, it is not just deer ticks that transmit the disease...ANY tick can be a vector. Most of the people that I have worked with who have had the disease NEVER found the tick with the rash that caused it. Second, you are not just at risk in the woods. Tall grass/weeds is the most likely place to pick up a tick...such as at the edge of a woods. If you get a tick bite and develop the early symptoms (rash, flu symptoms) get on the antibiotic QUICKLY. If your doctor won't prescribe it, FIRE HIM and get another. I know a dozen people who have had the disease progress to the tertiary stage with neurological symptoms...one person suffers from insomnia...and the other person has lost her ability to comprehend from reading(!)...she can only remember things that she hears (isn't that bizarre?..but the neurologist says that there are lots of other cases in the literature) Having said all of this, my own doctor holds the opinion that the whole Lyme phenomenon is largely overblown....there are serious cases, but it is a fashionable syndrome at the moment...like neuralgia...I have had the disease three times...and caught it right after the tick bite in each case.

P.S. The vaccine was horrible....for both humans and animals. I got my Bearded Collie vaccinated (because i could never find ticks in his long hair)..and he got rather ill for a couple of days after each shot....

From my limited knowledge, I don't think that it is the case that any tick can carry lyme disease (or at least do carry it). I understand it to be the black legged (or dear) tick in the northeastern and cental states and the western black legged tick in the Pacific coastal states. Other ticks don't carry lyme disease, or if they do, it is rare at best.

I disagree with your doctor. Lyme is a genuine problem for both people and dogs ( not sure if cats get lyme disease). If you catch it early, and take the antibiotic quickly, then you or the dog will be fine. But if not, and the disease reaches late stage lyme disease, the results are very serious, and there isn't even a medical agreement on the course of action to then treat it. In addition, the bullseye rash does not always occur, the sypmtoms are not unique to lyme disease, and the test for lyme disease is not always accurate.There is an exremely large tick poulation now, and I suggest people be very careful about ticks on themseves or their pets. Ticks also transmt other diseases too.

An adult lyme disease tick is about the size of a sesame seed.

I found ticks on my dog and/or on me, every day for the last 4-5 days. That did not happen last summer. My dog had 2 today. He is mostly white and the ticks are easy to see on him. BEWARE!!!!!


:) Sesame Seed Sandy :)

PS- Thanks all for the advice about vaccinations for lyme disease in humans. I won't take any.

[tylercheung]

acute lyme is caused by the borrelia spirochete, detectable by the antibodies your body makes against it. doxycycline for non CNS infections, ceftriaxone for CNS infections, usually treats it.

my understanding is there probably isn't any such thing as "late stage lyme" - there's untreated lyme or permanent damage from previously treated lyme which can cause neurological or joint issues by virtue of the spirochete happily chewing away at tissue while it was still in someone's system. if someone has the bug in the CNS for a long time untreated and develops the meningitis/encephalitis associated with Bannworth's syndrome, then I suppose there can be permanent damage causing things like cognitive issues, or if the bug is in the joint space long enough, chronic joint pain.

However the catch is - once you've killed the bug with the course or ceftriaxone/doxycycline, if you have the chronic symptoms, additional courses of antibiotics won't help - since you've killed the bug already. From what I've seen, the treatment for those patients is supportive care - physical therapy, etc. Thoretically, I think you could develop an autoimmune condition where the antibodies you make against the spirochete cross reacts with your own tissue causing some sort of chronic arthritis or demyelinating nerve disease, but i'm just speculating. I think the general consensus currently is that there are docs who are prescribing chronic, repeated doses of ceftriaxone that's probably unnecessary and exposing patients to needless risk and expense from the antibiotic without any measurable benefit. That being said, borrelia is very hard to detect in the body so it's hard to absolutely say that there aren't rare cases of actual "chronic lyme" in that the spirochete lives inside of neurons or other cells for extended periods of time.

[Sandy]

acute lyme is caused by the borrelia spirochete, detectable by the antibodies your body makes against it. doxycycline for non CNS infections, ceftriaxone for CNS infections, usually treats it.

my understanding is there probably isn't any such thing as "late stage lyme" - there's untreated lyme or permanent damage from previously treated lyme which can cause neurological or joint issues by virtue of the spirochete happily chewing away at tissue while it was still in someone's system. if someone has the bug in the CNS for a long time untreated and develops the meningitis/encephalitis associated with Bannworth's syndrome, then I suppose there can be permanent damage causing things like cognitive issues, or if the bug is in the joint space long enough, chronic joint pain.

However the catch is - once you've killed the bug with the course or ceftriaxone/doxycycline, if you have the chronic symptoms, additional courses of antibiotics won't help - since you've killed the bug already. From what I've seen, the treatment for those patients is supportive care - physical therapy, etc. Thoretically, I think you could develop an autoimmune condition where the antibodies you make against the spirochete cross reacts with your own tissue causing some sort of chronic arthritis or demyelinating nerve disease, but i'm just speculating. I think the general consensus currently is that there are docs who are prescribing chronic, repeated doses of ceftriaxone that's probably unnecessary and exposing patients to needless risk and expense from the antibiotic without any measurable benefit. That being said, borrelia is very hard to detect in the body so it's hard to absolutely say that there aren't rare cases of actual "chronic lyme" in that the spirochete lives inside of neurons or other cells for extended periods of time.

Thanks for the articulate explanation.

Relative to late stage lyme disease:

3 stages of lyme disease-

1. First stage- Early lyme disease.
2. Second stage- Early disseminated lyme disease
3. Third stage- Late or chronic lyme disease

Each stage is part of the progression of the disease had has certain characteristics. The late stage (third stage) disease is associated with those who never received the antibiotics for early lyme disease or whose treatment did not kill all of the bacteria that causes lyme disease. Those with late lyme disease may suffer from the following-

a. Chronic lyme arthritis
b. Nervous system problems
c. Chronic pain in muscles or problems with sleep.

A freind of mine had late stage lyme disease (or whatever one calls it or doesn't call it). My brother, a physcian who has seen a large number of cases of lyme disease in his practice, gave me a couple of links as to treatment for people with the late stage lyme disease and, as he pointed out, there was a major difference in the approach taken. As you stated, some thought continual medication did not help and certain negative side effects from the antibiotic could occur. Others opted for continuation of drug therapy.

Your clear analysis of what actually occurs with those with lyme disease was quite helpful in understanding what goes on. Thanks. I guess stages are not that meaningful one way or another.


Sandy

[rdparadise]

Sandy:

Thanks for opening this thread and asking questions. I'm a cyclist who was recently diagnosed with 3rd stage Lyme's disease. It originally showed up in the way of an inflamed left knee joint almost 2 years ago. I had an MRI and eventually surgery to repair the left knee.

This went on during most of 2007 and into early 2008. I was operated on in Feb. '08. Had a great year of cycling last year but in Dec. '08 my knee blew up again and I was taken aback and depressed. I went back to Ortho who said my knee looked like a 20 year olds so the only thing he could think of was Lymes.

Went for the blood work and was diagnosed positive. Went to family doc and he did another round of more in depth blood work. 10 out of 10 antibodies all positive for Lymes. No issue, I had it. Anyway, took a 3 week therapy of oral antibiotics and he said after that, that's it. I said, I want to see an infectious disease guy.

Went to him in March. Told my story. He told me I was classic late stage Lyme's disease. He recommended intravenous Rosephine anitibiotic for 28 days, self administered with a pic line in my right arm into my chest. I did the therapy and within 1 week started to feel better. At the end of the 28 days, my head is clear, my joints don't ache nearly as much and I'm on the mend.

I really had neurolical issues due to the late stage lyme's disease. I could not focus, felt lethargic all the time, unmotivated, etc. Now, with my head clear of the fog, what a difference.

I have followup blood work due in 90 days. My infectious doc told me the results will most likely still come back positive, however, the proof will be in how I'm feeling. This is scheduled for this September.

I don't know when I was bitten, possibly as long as 5 years ago, totally untreated during this time until April of this year. All of my joints ached. I had tender elbows, sort of like tennis elbow. My right knee would occassionally act up when cycling. My shoulder joint were in pain and one the left I had treated by my chiropractor more then 4 years ago. Nothing was diagnosed regarding any kind of tear, strain, etc. just, a very limited range of motion and pain when I lifted my left arm above my head.

I recently brought my dog to the vet and asked about Lyme's disease in dogs as my doc recommended I have him checked out. He's 4 years old, so I opted against the test. My vet said that Lyme's is not nearly as serious of an issue in dogs as they react differently then humans. She told me it was probably not anything to worry about with my dog. My dog doesn't display any human type systems, however, he also cannot communicate if he's having any of those issues.

I hope this helps.

Bob

[Sandy]

Sandy:

Thanks for opening this thread and asking questions. I'm a cyclist who was recently diagnosed with 3rd stage Lyme's disease. It originally showed up in the way of an inflamed left knee joint almost 2 years ago. I had an MRI and eventually surgery to repair the left knee.

This went on during most of 2007 and into early 2008. I was operated on in Feb. '08. Had a great year of cycling last year but in Dec. '08 my knee blew up again and I was taken aback and depressed. I went back to Ortho who said my knee looked like a 20 year olds so the only thing he could think of was Lymes.

Went for the blood work and was diagnosed positive. Went to family doc and he did another round of more in depth blood work. 10 out of 10 antibodies all positive for Lymes. No issue, I had it. Anyway, took a 3 week therapy of oral antibiotics and he said after that, that's it. I said, I want to see an infectious disease guy.

Went to him in March. Told my story. He told me I was classic late stage Lyme's disease. He recommended intravenous Rosephine anitibiotic for 28 days, self administered with a pic line in my right arm into my chest. I did the therapy and within 1 week started to feel better. At the end of the 28 days, my head is clear, my joints don't ache nearly as much and I'm on the mend.

I really had neurolical issues due to the late stage lyme's disease. I could not focus, felt lethargic all the time, unmotivated, etc. Now, with my head clear of the fog, what a difference.

I have followup blood work due in 90 days. My infectious doc told me the results will most likely still come back positive, however, the proof will be in how I'm feeling. This is scheduled for this September.

I don't know when I was bitten, possibly as long as 5 years ago, totally untreated during this time until April of this year. All of my joints ached. I had tender elbows, sort of like tennis elbow. My right knee would occassionally act up when cycling. My shoulder joint were in pain and one the left I had treated by my chiropractor more then 4 years ago. Nothing was diagnosed regarding any kind of tear, strain, etc. just, a very limited range of motion and pain when I lifted my left arm above my head.

I recently brought my dog to the vet and asked about Lyme's disease in dogs as my doc recommended I have him checked out. He's 4 years old, so I opted against the test. My vet said that Lyme's is not nearly as serious of an issue in dogs as they react differently then humans. She told me it was probably not anything to worry about with my dog. My dog doesn't display any human type systems, however, he also cannot communicate if he's having any of those issues.

I hope this helps.

Bob

Bob,

Very sorry to hear about what transpired with you over the last several years. At least you finally have a definitive diagnosis and have been successful relative to the therapy. As you know, diagnosis is not always so easy to make, especially since the normal symptoms are typical of other conditions (except the bullseye rash that may or may not occur).

I brought up the thread again because of the increased incidence of ticks that I have recently seen (on me and my dog). The lyme disease tick is quite small and easy to miss. My friend, who was a cyclsit, and died very suddenly at 54 (heart related) had significant problems fdrom lyme disease that limited his cycling and other functions greatly, although he felt as if he was improving. I wanted people here to be aware of lyme disease, especially since the tick population this year is particularly large, and lyme disease is found in humans and dogs.

I do get lyme disease vaccinations for my dog every year and give him a flea and tick application once a month. Interestingly, I just did the application today and he had two ticks- one before and one after the application.

Best to you!

Sandy

[Mikej]

Any tick can carry lymes, among many other nasty bacteria, it is the deer tick that passes it on through its four cycles in life, where other ticks can carry lymes only in the gestation period they pick it up (biting another infected host) and do not stay infected into their next "transformation". So don't think you are out of the woods if you pull a dog tick off!!! TICKS LIVE FOR ABOUT ONE YEAR, going through 4 life cycles!!! They are not like flys or insects, they are very robust and adaptable, living through the harsh winters and going for blood with a vengance in early April.