Training with power...

[oldguy00]

Do a lot of you guys use power meters during the winter as a training tool?
I have a Tacx Basic trainer which shows power (not sure how accurately..), and was thinking of putting together a new training program for myself for the next off season. I know, planning waaay ahead... :)
I can't afford a power meter for my bike right now, so not really thinking about it for Summer riding, plus my schedule this Summer is pretty screwy, so would be hard to follow a plan.

I guess my main question for the time being is, is the following book the best to use for developing this sort of training plan:

http://www.amazon.com/Training-Racing-Power-Meter-Hunter/dp/1931382794/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210076800&sr=1-1

Thanks!

[jeffg]

That is a great bok; however, it is really abut using your powermeter rather than providing a training plan per se. Therefore, you would need to pair the book with something like the cyclist's training bible, or a coach.

[oldguy00]

That is a great bok; however, it is really abut using your powermeter rather than providing a training plan per se. Therefore, you would need to pair the book with something like the cyclist's training bible, or a coach.
Going with the assumption that I don't have access to a decent coach, nor can I afford Mr. Carmichael's offerings....
Is the bible the best sort of book to pair with the power book, to develop a good plan??
Thanks again.

[jeffg]

Going with the assumption that I don't have access to a decent coach, nor can I afford Mr. Carmichael's offerings....
Is the bible the best sort of book to pair with the power book, to develop a good plan??
Thanks again.

I think so, but then again I am just a hack ...

[myette10]

I think so, but then again I am just a hack ...
Jeffg is right... that book gives you a great background for understanding what you are seeing on your power meter and how to interpret the results. It is not something that lays out a training plan specific for you. However, there is a sample training plan in the book that would probably work for 95% of people just starting out with power meter training. Mix and match the workouts to suit your needs.

[oldguy00]

Jeffg is right... that book gives you a great background for understanding what you are seeing on your power meter and how to interpret the results. It is not something that lays out a training plan specific for you. However, there is a sample training plan in the book that would probably work for 95% of people just starting out with power meter training. Mix and match the workouts to suit your needs.

Perfect, thanks!

[keno]

additionally, you might want to get on wattage@googlegroups.com. I'd be willing to bet that you could get routines from users there to cover any goal.

keno

[Chris]

Just use the 7 levels of intestinal discomfort...

[J.Greene]

I think training with a power meter in the off season is the least important time. Base building can be done by HR or even PE. When your really adding intensity is where a pm shines. To be able to keep track of training stress and to nail those workouts is important. I also race with mine too.

JG

Do a lot of you guys use power meters during the winter as a training tool?
I have a Tacx Basic trainer which shows power (not sure how accurately..), and was thinking of putting together a new training program for myself for the next off season. I know, planning waaay ahead... :)
I can't afford a power meter for my bike right now, so not really thinking about it for Summer riding, plus my schedule this Summer is pretty screwy, so would be hard to follow a plan.

I guess my main question for the time being is, is the following book the best to use for developing this sort of training plan:

http://www.amazon.com/Training-Racing-Power-Meter-Hunter/dp/1931382794/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210076800&sr=1-1

Thanks!

[runtimmyc]

can you download your work out from the Tacx Basic trainer?

[Too Tall]

That is a very good book and there are some excellent workouts to follow.
Agree with others here that off season is a great time to cross train and maintain fitness. It is not uncommon for athletes to reduce coaching and outside input during the offseason for that reason. However if this is your first stab at putting together a complete season having someone providing structure can be a wonderful experience. Personally, I miss having a full time coach.

[oldguy00]

can you download your work out from the Tacx Basic trainer?

Not that I know of. So I guess the analysis part is out the window.....
I was more thinking of using the power display on the trainer to guide my workouts based on a workout plan...

Given that it can't be downloaded, perhaps I am better off training based on heart rate, using a hr monitor from which the workouts can be downloaded?

[Chris]

I was reading the interview with Damiano Cunego in the new Pro Cycling last night. He and the director of his team talked about how they have scrapped the power meter and believe that much of the training is returning to heart rate based training as it gives you a better indication of how your body is responding to training in the moment. That is my poor summary of what was said. I trained with power for a while and it was a good device to get some feedback from, but for me, it took the fun out of training and I felt constricted by the numbers. I have done some presentations with Allen Lim and when we have talked about it, he has told me that it is important to think about it as training with power rather than by power. All of his athletes train by perceived exertion and then they analyze the power and heart rate afterward to determine progress or fatigue. Stuff to think about.

[myette10]

I heard somewhere about some pro or team training based on resting heart rate.

Something like this:

You ride today. Tomorrow morning you take your resting heart rate. If it is high, take it easy. If low, drill it.

Seems pretty simple to follow at least.

[J.Greene]

I trained with power for a while and it was a good device to get some feedback from, but for me, it took the fun out of training and I felt constricted by the numbers.

Just for another data point I have had a different experience. It's helped me taylor my workouts more precisely, and measure gains. I have really used it to benefit in tt's. Our last TT had a pretty hard upwind first leg. I was able to peg my effort into that headwind because I knew what watt number I could sustain. Because I was fresh I was able to do my best time ever on a night when people went as fast as they usually go. The pacing benefit of the PM really helped.

JG

[Chris]

Just for another data point I have had a different experience. It's helped me taylor my workouts more precisely, and measure gains. I have really used it to benefit in tt's. Our last TT had a pretty hard upwind first leg. I was able to peg my effort into that headwind because I knew what watt number I could sustain. Because I was fresh I was able to do my best time ever on a night when people went as fast as they usually go. The pacing benefit of the PM really helped.

JG

In the article, they mentioned that the two areas where they think that power meter training was most beneficial was for people improving their TT and for climbers.

[J.Greene]

In the article, they mentioned that the two areas where they think that power meter training was most beneficial was for people improving their TT and for climbers.

Cool.

For me it gives me something to wrap my mind around. It does not pedal the bike, make me pedal the bike harder or do anything but quantify what I usually do in a way I can interpret.

Using watts/kg is a great way to track what kind of toatal fitness and preparation a rider has.

I'm a hack racer and only know 1/10 of 1% of Allen Lim, but the PM works for me.

[Too Tall]

FWIIW I agree that HR based training combined with watts can be the absolute last word in training. Incremental changes in physiology are better tracked with lactate monitoring than absolute watts numbers derived from testing and daily workouts...in effect blood monitoring is closer to "real time" if that makes any sense. Unfortunately most of us are not in proximity to a lab or coach with the ability to test and interpret these results. Look up FaCT testing to read more about it. In a perfect world that is how I'd work.
http://www.fact-canada.com/

[coloclimber]

Thats the Power Bible for now- the wattage forum on Google keeps it in check though.
I "trained" with power- Ergomo and PT 2.4 but found they were just geek toys to play with even with Traininpeaks and a coach. I just didnt have enough time to "train" no matter how many watts I was or wasn't putting out. It didnt make me any more efficient with time either, even with a coach helping me interpret it all. Now I don't ride with any distractions or computers at all on the bike. Ride more and play (spend) less.

[oldguy00]

I was able to peg my effort into that headwind because I knew what watt number I could sustain.
JG

But could you have done the same thing based on heart rate, peg your heart rate at what you knew you could sustain?

[J.Greene]

But could you have done the same thing based on heart rate, peg your heart rate at what you knew you could sustain?

For the most part yes. HR is slow to ramp up and the start of a tt is where most people go too hard.

none of these things replace experience or training. They are just training aids.

[coylifut]

But could you have done the same thing based on heart rate, peg your heart rate at what you knew you could sustain?

Just to expand on my pal J. Greene's comments, HR works almost in a reverse pattern to power. Let's say you wanted put out a specific level of effort in a TT and it's day 3 of a 3 day stage race. You're likely to have trouble getting your HR up in the zone, but you'd likely attempt to do it anyway because with HR you're flying somewhat blind. In the above example, you'd be rocketing down the course in your TT HR zone, but well above your threshold power zone. The most likely outcome is that your power would trail off dramatically as you approached the end of your effort.

Conversely, if you focussed on power, your HR would start well below your LT HR, approach the mid point half way through your effort and you'd finish the effort above LT.

That's the main difference between using HR and power. Power is more objective. HR tends to be influenced by environmental factors.

[wrestlr]

Hmm... I would never base my training solely on heart rate alone. WAY too many factors that skew the numbers on a regular basis. Stress, Caffeine, Medicine, temperature, altitude, and not to mention the lag that the heartrate has in correlation to power output. It is good to listen to your body but unless you have been riding for all of your life on a competitive level and can relate to every situation and scenario, how do you know exactly where you stand in your training? Do you really think that a fluctuating and changing hear rate is sufficient to use as a baseline for all of your training and progress?

SRM has been by far one of the best tools for me and if you utilize it and structure your training around it for specific goals, you will not fall short of them. I know that now I never ride without one.
-Mike

[Chris]

These are all metrics which confirm the sensations. Take them off your bike and you will still be able to hit 99% of what you are trying to accomplish. Heart rate, other than for aerobic riding, ATMO should be used as feedback in regards to the perceived exertion.

[swoop]

it think everybody that has a chance to train with power should at least try it. its such a graphic way to work on efficiency and to do good interval work.
but at the same time, its also a chance to realize that you aren't a numbers guy.

i guess the sweet spot is somewhere in between the two. i see too many guys buried in the computer.. it becomes a governer, and i see too many trainign blindly and never improving.

but then i see cats that get better every year too.