New build: Comments?

[dannyg1]

I've spent the last few days building this up and it's almost ready for show. If y'all would please, may I have your opinions and suggestions?

Thanks,
Danny
(comments and current build details below the photos)

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/hpsworkshop/Badgerfullcasual.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/hpsworkshop/Badgerheadlugs.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/hpsworkshop/Badgerforkandbrakes.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/hpsworkshop/Badgerrearshifter.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/hpsworkshop/Badgerbadge.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/hpsworkshop/Badgerrearbridge.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/hpsworkshop/Badgerseatlugcloser.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/hpsworkshop/BadgerBB.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/hpsworkshop/Badgerreardropout.jpg

Frame is a Rob Pennell Badger. 56.5 seat c2c, 55 top c2c (Bought on the classifieds board)
Crank Shimano 105 5603 triple 165mm (because of toe overlap concerns)
RD Campagnolo Centaur grey
FD Campagnolo Centaur triple silver
Chain Dura Ace
Cassette Record ti/steel 12-25
Brake/shifters Campagnolo Centaur Flatbar QS 10 grey
Handlebar/stem: Titanium bar undersized /alloy shim + Cinelli Grammo
Headset FSA 1" threadless
Wheels: Ritchey Protocol rear, Campagnolo Scirocco front. Both silver
Seatpost: Thomson Elite 27.4
Saddle: Brooks Swift ti green
Grips: Sette Lock-on
Brakes: Dia Compe 983 canti's
Pedals: Shimano 520's

[paczki]

Beatiful frame. I'd go with a honey saddle and green grips. But very nice!

[97CSI]

Very tasty and tastefully done. How do you like the flatbar Ergo shifters?

[SimonC]

Completely snobbish comments:

I'd pop matching tyres on there, and line up your rear tire logo with the valve stem

The wheels don't match, but that's not a real issue - I would probably take the Ritchey decals off the rear though, they 'shout' a bit

You've got the saddle all the way back on the rails on an in-line post - perhaps swap it out for something with a little layback (Campagnolo Titanium, Nitto or similar?)

I love the Grammo stems, but part of me thinks something more 'sinuous' would suit the lugged headtube better

What's the headset, it looks nice? Oh, and I love the cable straddle hangers!

[RudAwkning]

Gratz on the new bike.

Comments? Get some dirt on! Oh, and rotate that stem cap....your logo is crooked :D

[terry]

-hate the brooks,
-hate the flat bars,-where are you planning on riding that with a triple?
-overall I like that bike/
-enjoy

[swoop]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhzgTp8q9as

[bostondrunk]

Is it a commuter?
I really like it.

[Louis]

I'd go with a honey saddle

Ditto here.

[cowgirl]

I'd ride it. But then I'd ride just about anything.

[mike p]

Pretty wild, I like it.

Mike

[false_Aest]

i love the decepticons logo :)

[stevep]

cool bike
ride it plenty

[bnewt07]

Very nice set up.

Only thing that glares for me are the wheels, something less shouty for me. If you switch to a honey colour saddle then ? wonder if you could find grips to match the colour?

[dannyg1]

Beatiful frame. I'd go with a honey saddle and green grips. But very nice!

Rob P. thanks you for the compliment. I like your ideas with a B17 sprinter ti as the (Does that have tiny silver rivets like a standard B17?) saddle that you've suggested.

Danny

[dannyg1]

Very tasty and tastefully done. How do you like the flatbar Ergo shifters?

I'll take that compliment! Thanks.

The shifters work pretty well and are finished very nicely too, but they do have a couple of quirks (the shift wing/ring things are a bit plasticky and the rear of the brake lever is hollowed in a way that isn't quite up to the standard that I expect from Campy.

All that said, Shimano XTR (and XT) MTB dual controls shift more smoothly and feel much more stout.

Danny

[dannyg1]

Simon,

Once I get closer to finalizing the build, I'll do all of the anal stuff (just for fun, as my appreciation of this bike is really about how 'over the top' it all is. The mismatched tire and the lack of a bar plug will be fixed in short order. Anybody have a Ritchey Protocol front wheel in silver?). The wheels bothered me while I was taking the snaps, but I don't want to go to a handbuilt wheel because that might make the whole build seem more 'serious'. I want 'whimsy' out of this!

I'm considering mounting this Russian Ti stem I have hanging around that's sort of Grammo-esque but with a more menacing, angular shape. Are you thinking of a Nitto lugged stem, or similar?

Headset is pretty and came mounted to the frame. I'm pretty sure that it's an FSA Ahead Orbit X-1, but I haven't really studied up. It was there and it works nicely AFAICT Atmo. Why change perfectly good component I've never seen another of?

Danny


Danny

Completely snobbish comments:

I'd pop matching tyres on there, and line up your rear tire logo with the valve stem

The wheels don't match, but that's not a real issue - I would probably take the Ritchey decals off the rear though, they 'shout' a bit

You've got the saddle all the way back on the rails on an in-line post - perhaps swap it out for something with a little layback (Campagnolo Titanium, Nitto or similar?)

I love the Grammo stems, but part of me thinks something more 'sinuous' would suit the lugged headtube better

What's the headset, it looks nice? Oh, and I love the cable straddle hangers!

[SimonC]

Are you thinking of a Nitto lugged stem, or similar?

They're nice, but really expensive. I think they do a fairly plain silver model at reasonable cost?

I like your description of the bike as 'whimsy' - that works for me! I did have to bite my tongue on the flat bars, but that's me being narrow-minded.

[dannyg1]

-hate the brooks,
-hate the flat bars,-where are you planning on riding that with a triple?
-overall I like that bike/
-enjoy

I really like the flatbars and the green Brooks does seem the bastard half brother (will I ever find the right build to mount this?). As for the triple: I built this up as a 'sport/city bike' and modeled it loosely after these strange MTB/road hybrids that the Latino food delivery boys are building up all over Manhattan. I'll probably just ride it out to LI and tool around all summer. It seems to me a perfect Long Island bike for a sarcastic NY'er.

Danny

[dannyg1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhzgTp8q9as

Hey Swoop,

You got this perfectly, first shot! You're good (Cowgirl).

Danny

[dannyg1]

Is it a commuter?
I really like it.

I'm not really sure if it's about function. This bike is obscure fashion to me. That said, it's a lot less glaring than your average Cervelo!

Danny

[dannyg1]

I'd ride it. But then I'd ride just about anything.

With that avatar and the above quote, I can't even say what I'm thinking.... Thanks for the thought though.

Danny

[dannyg1]

Very nice set up.

Only thing that glares for me are the wheels, something less shouty for me. If you switch to a honey colour saddle then ? wonder if you could find grips to match the colour?

Thanks. I'm considering going all screaming on the wheels and doing older, full alloy hub Ksyrium SL's in silver. I really should at least mount and consider some tied/soldered Campy Moskva 80's with Centaur grey hubs. Anybody have a set of those (XTR grey anodized low profile aero) rims around?

The grips I can make to match. I'm going to do some detail work on the bike today; put some rubber suspension rings under the toptube cable runs, mount a stainless stay guard and make the cassette into an 11/ 23.

Danny

[swoop]

Hey Swoop,

You got this perfectly, first shot! You're good (Cowgirl).

Danny

i'm not him/her... ugh.

[dannyg1]

Let me try this another way:

What do you find yourselves thinking of this bike? What's it say to you and if you like it, or don't like it, why?

I'm interested in learning about prevailing opinion's and current fashion dictum's in the current bike market.

The way I see it this bike is something akin to a Vanilla city bike that I saw photos of recently (it was stealthy looking black or maybe dark grey and there was a guy all dressed in black riding it through traffic. I can't remember where I saw the photos).

One opinion that I've gotten so far that I found interesting, was that this comes across to him as a budget build. Having bought all the components, I'm sure that this is way out of the middle range for most riders.

What do you think this bike cost to build? (All the components are new, save the brakes, front wheel and the saddle.) What do you think it's worth on the 'for sale' board? (And no, it's not for sale.)

Thanks,
Danny

[e-RICHIE]

Let me try this another way:

What do you find yourselves thinking of this bike? What's it say to you and if you like it, or don't like it, why?

i love the rugs atmo.

[dannyg1]

Oops. Pedals are not new either, but the frame is. E-Richie rugs RTR.

Danny

[bnewt07]

Let me try this another way:

What do you find yourselves thinking of this bike? What's it say to you and if you like it, or don't like it, why?

I'm interested in learning about prevailing opinion's and current fashion dictum's in the current bike market.

Thanks,
Danny

I'll have a punt at that. Hope you don't mind if I'm a bit blunt!

Firstly it looks like what I'd call a 'project' something that somebody has spent time assembling and planning-this is good. I also think it is hard to mix modern and older style components well, hence my reservations re the wheels. As for fashions-it looks like a very 'transatlantic' bike to my UK eyes, not something I'd buy (or choose to ride) but something that would make me stop and ask the owner about it. I personally don't 'like it' much, rather I like it for being individual. It is a bit old fashioned without being classic to my eyes. I'm not convinced the fancy lugwork and general style fits the flat-bar look myself.


Value-no idea.

[SimonC]

Again, I'll caveat up front that I'm English too, so any comments I make should be taken with a pinch of salt:

What do you find yourselves thinking of this bike? What's it say to you and if you like it, or don't like it, why?

I don't like it very much. I think there are two reasons for that. The first is that it's a lugged steel frame with a selection of (IMHO) parts that typify the modern brutal aesthetic - deep section 'screamy' wheels, ugly-chunky Shimano chainset, and low(ish) end flat-bar shifters, rear mech and brake calipers.

For that reason, it also looks somewhat like a bike that can’t decide what it is – the narrow tires and deep rims say racer, but the flat bars and cantilever brakes say urban / cruiser, and the Brooks saddle saddle says retro.

Very much translating my personal tastes onto it, I'd have built it with Campagnolo alloy parts - the older style alloy Record chainset - and some handbuilt wheels (polished Campagnolo hubs on Open Pro or similar). As I've said previously, I'd also build it with drop bars.

The second reason is that it's a highly personal colour scheme - orange and metallic green are quite bright, and then with the chromed highlights it's just a bit to 'Bayliss' for my tastes.

I'm interested in learning about prevailing opinion's and current fashion dictum's in the current bike market.

I think that's mostly oversized carbon frames and deep-section carbon rims with lots of big shouty graphics. Alternately there's the retrogrouch look largely as described in my comment above. I think where this falls down in my eyes is taking a frame with a clear aesthetic trending toward the latter, and building it with purposeful parts designed for the former.

The way I see it this bike is something akin to a Vanilla city bike that I saw photos of recently

Perhaps I’m overstepping the mark here, but the thing that defines a Vanilla to me is the integration between the components of the bike – custom stems and racks, and a unified aesthetic. It’s what makes Sacha’s work stand out. I don’t think your bike achieves that, and (again IMHO) if it’s a city bike it might benefit from utilising the braze-ons provided for fenders and a rack to improve the versatility.

One opinion that I've gotten so far that I found interesting, was that this comes across to him as a budget build. Having bought all the components, I'm sure that this is way out of the middle range for most riders.

I don’t disagree with either comment – a quality lugged steel frame and some new components don’t come cheaply, but I think the whole appears as less than the sum of the parts – because of the strong differential in aesthetic between parts of the build (and elements such as mis-matching wheels and tyres) it looks like a bike built from the parts you had available to hand. Nothing wrong with that, but it’ll always look like it’s worth less.

What do you think this bike cost to build? (All the components are new, save the brakes, front wheel and the saddle.) What do you think it's worth on the 'for sale' board? (And no, it's not for sale.)

That’s an interesting question as I tried searching the classifieds when you first posted, to see how much you paid. The frame is obviously the key element, but I’d probably guess $2k for the entire build?

[dave thompson]

B-17 Sprinter

[swoop]

they're not just for horses (british people look good wif em)!

[shinomaster]

That bike deserves a campy crank.

[fiamme red]

I'll probably just ride it out to LI and tool around all summer. It seems to me a perfect Long Island bike for a sarcastic NY'er.Drops are very useful when riding against the wind on Long Island. It can get very windy there.

[dannyg1]

Thanks Simon for answering so candidly, I really appreciate your taking the time. I'll answer to some of your criticisms and explain a couple of things further.

[QUOTE=SimonC]Again, I'll caveat up front that I'm English too, so any comments I make should be taken with a pinch of salt:

I don't like it very much. I think there are two reasons for that. The first is that it's a lugged steel frame with a selection of (IMHO) parts that typify the modern brutal aesthetic - deep section 'screamy' wheels, ugly-chunky Shimano chainset, and low(ish) end flat-bar shifters, rear mech and brake calipers.

The modern aesthetic was chosen first because, it's the aesthetic that the builder built to (Frame born 12-10-2005 via the dated photos of my frame, from the now sadly gone Badger website). Some examples of the work he's better known for:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/hpsworkshop/Badgerfromblog.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/hpsworkshop/dorothyproto002.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/hpsworkshop/badgerbike1_500.jpg

Second, I had in mind this idea of a flatbar triple before I went looking for a suitable frame after having built a couple for friends. I'll post photos of those when my friends give me photos. Both were delivered before I had the chance to document them.

In the beginning, I had the Chorus triple crank in mind and it would've been on this bike had it been available in 165mm. I was very concerned upon receiving this frame an fitting a few things to it, that toe overlap would be a problem. It's fine with a 165 but would be very tight with a 170 (might miss, might not). Turns out that Campy doesn't make the Chrus/Record shape in 165 and for that, it got the boot. My next choice was a Stronglight Speedlight triple, but finding that in 165 (or just finding that at all) meant ordering a new one from a store in England and the final shipped cost was to be far north of $350 US, sans BB.

I ended up choosing the 105 crank because it is to me, the prettiest shape that Shimano currently makes and pleases me greatly, much more so than either the Dura Ace or the Ultegra. I did heavily consider both the Ultegra SL and because of the builders rep, the 2006 XTR cranks, but decided that the extra cost wasn't warranted. In the case of the Ultegra SL, I liked the look of the 105 better and didn't feel a need or the weight savings; in the case of the XTR, I thought it to 'chunky' for the frame, even then, it almost made it to the final bike (I bought a suitable 165 to see).

The Centaur shifters are second only to Chorus in the Campagnolo Flatbar hierarchy and are prettier in the 'flesh' than the mechanically identical, but carbon levered Chorus flatbars (I also have a pair of those on hand). I'll also rise in defense of the Gran Compe calipers. They're a bear to set up but function impeccably and after a quick polish, they're really quite beautiful. They were 'top end kit' way back in 85 and other than the Mafac, Spooky and possibly the Tektro CR720, were the only cantilevers that would work with the rather unique 52mm c2c brake stud placement on the front fork.

My first choice was the Veloce mini-V brakeset and these lost out because there is no way to functionally mount them on the front fork.

Finally, I'm in love with the finish an look of the grey Centaur rear derailleur. That was chosen from the start.

I tried searching the classifieds when you first posted, to see how much you paid. The frame is obviously the key element, but I’d probably guess $2k for the entire build?

Here's the original text from DWI's ad on the for sale board:

This is a very nice custom from Rob Pennell of Badger Cycles. Rob build this for a fellow that had been having back problems. As it turned out ..the back problems persisted and the frame was sold after only 50 miles.
The frame is a nice collection of modern parts ..modern technology and old world charm and character. The lugs are e-richie's Newvex ..styled ..but not copies of the Nervex lugs.The tubing is Columbus Spirit and Zona ..their newer tube set. The BB is a Pacenti bottom bracket.The drop-outs are polished SS from Henry James.
The bike is set up for all-round riding ..cantilever brakes ..moderate BB drop (not low) .. decent tire clearence. The fork cantilever studs are quite close together .. set up for newer style Shimano or avid .. I don't think Paul's would work.I don't quite understand the spacing ..but it is similar to what I have seen with Serotta cantilever forks.$2300.00 new

The specs as close as I can measure,

ST length C-C 56cm

TT length 54.5cm

HT length 16.7cm

HT angle 73d

ST angle 72.5d

CS length 43.1cm

Fork rake/offset 47mm

Stand-over 32.5" ( varies w/ tire size a bit)

The frame has several Polished stainless parts ..the DO's, ST endcaps, DT lettering ,rear brake cable holder and headtube badge.
The lug work is very clean ..as is the paint.There is one small nick in the paint ..but overall excellent.

There is a lot of time and money in this frame ..the raw materials alone add up quite bit. I purchased this frame with a reported 14cm HT length ..it was 16.7cm in reality. I considered quite a few options to make the bike work out .. but it is just a tad tall .

This can be a really great find for someone looking for a real top line custom for a real fair price.. not that customs as unfairly priced ..but out of reach for some.I can work out a very good price for someone who may be interested.

Frame,fork, FSA HS.

$899.00 obo.

Contact directly at ( cdirvinATcomcast.net) with questions or interest.

Here's the hoto from the builders web site:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/hpsworkshop/Badgerborn12_10_05DSC01212.jpg

Thanks again,
Danny

[Fat Robert]

it looks like a bike shop vomited parts and they all landed together

sorry

but that's what i think

[dannyg1]

it looks like a bike shop vomited parts and they all landed together

sorry

but that's what i think

I'll give you the mismates: the wheels, the front derailleur, the pedals, the saddle and the tires, but save for those and a few other 'tweaky' upgrades, it's pretty close to soup by me.

Regards,
Danny

[swoop]

it only matters that you like it. you have to be yourself and if the way its set up is an expression of that.... you know... if it makes you happy.... its your bike!


for me, its too schizophrenic. the only unifying thing is that there is no cohesive aesthetic or decision process at work for me. its just random but lacks the inherent relationship one discovers in random things. i just see interventions but no center. i like cubism.... but cubism deconstructs something (time and space)... and this just seems well, schizophrenic and disorganized.

but that's why i get to set up my bikes they way i like and you get do yours the way you like. so if you like it, its the best bike ever.

[Fat Robert]

it's pretty close to soup by me.

Regards,
Danny

remind me to decline any dinner invitations

[davids]

it looks like a bike shop vomited parts and they all landed together

sorry

but that's what i thinkBut that doesn't explain the frame. Maybe the painter also vomited?

...I wouldn't have said that, but dannyg1 seems pretty thick-skinned. Sorry. Mismatched parts can work fine, but nothing matches on that bike. What's the opposite of synergistic?


p.s. It's just a bike! I'm sure dannyg1's a great guy!

[Fat Robert]

p.s. It's just a bike! I'm sure dannyg1's a great guy!


i'd take him to huddle house, and pay

[paczki]

I really like the frame and the paint. It should be built up like in the picture from the builders website with a honey seat and tape. And a derailleur and a front brake. And a silver stem.

[shinomaster]

But that doesn't explain the frame. Maybe the painter also vomited?

...I wouldn't have said that, but dannyg1 seems pretty thick-skinned. Sorry. Mismatched parts can work fine, but nothing matches on that bike. What's the opposite of synergistic?


p.s. It's just a bike! I'm sure dannyg1's a great guy!



I like the paint. It needs a gray Centaur ct crank( chainset).

[dannyg1]

i'd take him to huddle house, and pay

No smiley face on that one and you're scaring me!

Danny

[Fat Robert]

No smiley face on that one and you're scaring me!

Danny


huddle house makes everybody smile

you want the tall stack or the ham omlette?

[cowgirl]

I don't know, but it looks like the kind of bike the drunk boys like to ride around on all hoot'n and holler'in like they want me to take my shirt off...you know something you've got to ride 'cause the state done taken your license away for making your 6 year old breathe in the breathalizer for you.

cowgirl

[swoop]

.

[dannyg1]

it only matters that you like it. you have to be yourself and if the way its set up is an expression of that.... you know... if it makes you happy.... its your bike!


for me, its too schizophrenic. the only unifying thing is that there is no cohesive aesthetic or decision process at work for me. its just random but lacks the inherent relationship one discovers in random things. i just see interventions but no center. i like cubism.... but cubism deconstructs something (time and space)... and this just seems well, schizophrenic and disorganized.

but that's why i get to set up my bikes they way i like and you get do yours the way you like. so if you like it, its the best bike ever.

Hi Swoop,

I appreciate what you're trying to say here and thank you for offering your opinion but I think that what you've posited is unfair on the whole. There is a thought process going on in the build but it's of an unusual convention and one that you probably haven't seen before (or much of). It's a different approach and (probably) will be better understood after you've seen it more often.

I think there's a sound prejudice in the timely fashions of the bike market and that different venues appeal to people with similar sensibilities. For instance, I believe this build would go over prett well on BF or RBR, but would sink stonelike on the CV (and apparantly here. Bayliss is proably the most respected builder alive you know :) )

It seems to me that spec'ing flatbars is the 'never do' sin around these parts, add the four others presented here: Mixing Shimano and Campy, mismatched tires, zero setback seatpost and MTB pedals, and you've got a controversial build as a given. 'Random' and 'schizoid' though, I can't sit with.

There's no Truvativ or carbon, no black parts (the pedals were just 'thrown on' so I could test ride it without taking any from my other bikes. They're not the pedals the final build will have, though the final ones will be MTB clipless, in silver) and nothing's CK pink! (sounds funny but it's an obvious contrast with the paint scheme. Would be wayyy too much IMO).

I guess that what I'm saying here is give me a chance to get to the final build before you condemn the project wholesale. It's a beautiful toy and the paint makes the component choices more difficult than most. As of now, I've decided that the wheels and the saddle are going to change definitely. After that, I'll reconsider the rest.

Regards,
Danny

[swoop]

hey now... you asked for a response and explanation even if the viewer doesn't love the bike... and what i wrote has no venom and was as honestly as i could articulate why i don't like it... in terms of art direction....
but at the same time i was clear to say the only voice that matters is yours.
all the while trying to make all parties.. you too, have a chuckle.

feels like a set up.
honey am i fat kind of thing?

the funny bit about the nike shoes is it takes those three gorgeous but difficult to relate to each other colors and puts them in proportions that work.
and the ponies are freaking cool.

to start with the paint job has gorgeous colors that set the bike out of balance for the proportions. its no irish flag... but its also not your wife.. its just a bike... but the front end and back end already give me the dizzies.. which is a shame because each color is fantastic (check the shoes).
but i think both builds just take it further downstream. i like flat bars....

i also like cereal with no milk....
the only vote that matters is yours.

but i worked hard to try and articulate the why for ya!!!!! (you asked for a why too).

its just trivial stuff... all of it (from me). but it does match what dangerfield is wearing in the caddyshack clip and that was the first thing i saw via the bike.

[dannyg1]

Swoop wrote: >>feels like a set up.honey am i fat kind of thing?<<

Please don't misunderstand my response (which I just edited BTW). I didn't take your post as venomous, just to dismissive for a work in progress. I did and am chuckling through many of the responses and I promise to love the bike no matter how bastardized the general opinion of it is.

You should hear the responses I get in Central Park (and see the faces). Interesting stuff for me.

Regards,
Danny