Complete bike weights

[drbob]

I have not read a whole lot about complete bike weights (frame, gruppo, wheels, etc.) and was interested in what some of your complete bike set-ups weigh, as most discussions seem to refer to frame and fork only. I recently rode 6 Gaps in Georgia with my OCLV Trek (my new travel bike) and left my prized Ottrott SL at home. For kicks I weighed both bikes to see the weight difference and the results were a follows:

Trek OCLV 120 with Dura Ace 9 speed (12-27), Chris King Headset, Zipp 303 clinchers, Alliante carbon rail saddle, Deda Blackstick seat post, Dura Ace SPD-SL pedals, Deda Newton bar/stem, aluminum bottle cages..........18.0 lbs.

2004 Ottrott ST with Dura Ace 10 speed (11-21), Chris King Headset, Mavic Cosmic Carbone clinchers, Aliante titanium rail saddle, Dura Ace seatpost, Dura Ace SPD SL pedals, Deda Newton bar/stem, Arundel bottle cages..19.2lbs

I was surprised at the weight of my Trek as I thought it would be lighter. Obviously, the Carbones are heavier than the Zipps, but the weight difference between the Trek and Ottrott was about what I expected. Any comments?

[pjm]

'99 CSI - size 60 - Campy Record group, Ksyrium SLs, Vittoria Open Corsa Evo, Time Impact mag pedals, Thomson Masterpeice seatpost, Selle Italia flite, Serotta Ti quill stem, Ritchey Bio-max handlebar, F1 fork......19.5 lbs.
:cool:

[Ozz]

What did you use to weigh your bikes?

FWIW - For kicks, I used a bathroom scale to weigh my 60cm CSI (Record, Eurus, see Image Gallery for more details). I weighed myself, and then weighed myself holding my bike and came up with an 18 lb difference, so I figure my bike weighs somewhere between 18 and 19 lbs.

(This was without pedals - Record Pro-Fit)

[pjm]

My bike shop has a scale that they hang the bike on.

[tch]

I think too much of the time it's easy to get fixated on and then disappointed by weight. I see a lot of material about bike weights and it often notes "without pedals". Well c'mon, you need pedals to ride! How about some weights of bikes AS YOU RIDE THEM, including not only pedals but saddle bag and pump if you store it on your frame. I know my Concours is reasonably light, but when I add the spare tube, the two allen wrenches, the tire irons, and the mini-pump, it does not seem to "measure up". ...But I bet it does in real life.

[weisan]

Please don't forget to include two full water-bottles. :D

[alembical]

So, if I ride with the tubes, pump, allens, etc.. in my jersey pocket, does that mean that the bike weight is less than using a saddle bag? Is there a difference in where the weight is? I have found that I actually like having the tools in a small saddle bag better than on me. I figure the weight of my bike as ridden is about 210 pounds. If I went with some new high zoot parts though I could bring that down to around 209 pounds. :banana:

Alembical

[Serotta PETE]

Kevin's calfee with Kevin and Sandy on it>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>and byu the way, that is the only way that I could keep up with them,

Pete :bike:

[vaxn8r]

Lemond OCLV 1997. Record 9. Protons: 19.2lbs

Atlanta 1997. Ultegra 9. Ksyrium SL: 20.4lbs

CAAD7 2003. Ultegra 9/105 mix. Ksyrium SL: 18.5lbs

Tetra Pro 2004. DA 10. DA (same exact weight as my Ksyrium SL +/- 7g): 17.0lbs

With my new Rolfs the respective weights are: Atlanta 19.6, Caad7 17.7, Tetra 16.2.

All my bikes have Thompson posts, Flite saddles, Shimano pedals etc. Atlanta has a steel fork and now has a Cinelli Grammo quill stem. Lemond has a Salsa quill stem and fenders...I'm now afraid to weigh it.

[vaxn8r]

BTW, I weighed my buddy's new Ottrott ST 56, All Record 10 inc. pedals/Alum crank/steel cassette/Richey WCP components. Eurus wheels. 18.2lbs

[zap]

6,685 grams-just a hair under 14.75lbs.

For a clean 58 cm Klein Q Pro Carbon with record carbon. You can see the bike in the pic gallery. Weight includes DA SPD-SL pedals and two King Ti cages.

Look Monoblade (58cm) with Mavic Zap ;) groupo-22lbs. See pic gallery

CoMotion Steel tandem with Mavic groupo-37lbs

Wifes Serotta CSI (47cm) with Record-17lbs

[dirtdigger88]

60 cm Legend with DA 10, Speedplays, Thomson post and stem, Ksyriums, Flite saddle 17.8 lbs from bike shop and on repair stand with scale.

Interseting note, 57 Lemond (853 steel) Ultegra, Thomson stem and post, Chris King/Open Pros, Open Pros, Flite saddle 18.4 lbs from same sources.

So much for high $$ equalling low weight. :no:

There is no comparison in ride however.

Jason

[dgauthier]

So much for high $$ equalling low weight.
Jason

I'll say! How disappointing.

My el-cheapo 57cm tigged steel Bianchi Vigorelli, with Bianchi carbon fork with steel steerer tube, Ultegra triple(!), Deda 310 bars (that's 310 grams, folks), Mavic Cosmos wheelset (basically MA3's on Mavic hubs), Time Impact S pedals (alloy version, magnesium would be overkill on this bike), Vetta saddle and saddlebag with 3 tubes, 3 CO2 cartridges, and CO2 air chuck weighs about 22 lbs. using the oh-so-sensitive bathroom scale method.

All for about $1650 bucks, if I include the saddlebag and contents.

I woulda thought most of the bikes mentioned here would be in the 17 lb. range.

[christian]

Egads, those are some light bikes!

I have no idea how much my Rambouillet weighs, but I think I'm probably giving up 5 lbs to most of you. And I grunt when I just pick up the frame/fork of my MXL. Thank god I'm going to ride it and not hump it around like a suitcase.

On the plus side, with the weight I've lost this year, it's pretty much like I'm riding a sub-10 lbs bike.

- Christian

[sevencyclist]

Seven Verve mountain bike with Fox F80 RLT fork. XTR 952 Grouppo with Avid Ultimate brakes, Speeddream wheelset with Hugi 240 hubs and Bontrage rims, Ritchey WCS Stem, Easton EC 90 Bar, Easton EC70 post, Brooks Swift saddle. 21.3 lbs

[Ozz]

I think too much of the time it's easy to get fixated on and then disappointed by weight. I see a lot of material about bike weights and it often notes "without pedals". Well c'mon, you need pedals to ride! How about some weights of bikes AS YOU RIDE THEM, including not only pedals but saddle bag and pump if you store it on your frame. I know my Concours is reasonably light, but when I add the spare tube, the two allen wrenches, the tire irons, and the mini-pump, it does not seem to "measure up". ...But I bet it does in real life.
Sorry...my pedals were on my old bike strapped to my trainer out in the garden shed. My CSI sleeps inside and it was too much trouble to go get them.

I sort of agree with you, but I think the weight should be the fixed weight of your bike - one water bottle or two? Full, empty, or partly full? Two cartridges or three? Or frame pump? Before breakfast or after? Morning post-coffee weight loss / sports page reading time routine? Tool bag or jersey pockets? Jacket? Tights?....you get the picture.

Since all these items are variable, they really don't give an indication as to how much the BIKE weighs. Weigh bike with the minimum needed to just ride, and that is how much the bike weighs.

just my $0.02 :)

[bostondrunk]

Wow, that is heavy for those bikes (the oclv and ottrott). I know that Giant carbons and Calfee tetras with DA/Record and zipps weigh around 16 pounds.

The difference in weight between your two bikes is entirely the wheels. Those wheels have almost exactly one pound difference, check the specs.

I've hoisted a couple of OCLV's recently and was suprised at how heavy they felt..

[dirtdigger88]

I'll say! How disappointing.
I woulda thought most of the bikes mentioned here would be in the 17 lb. range.

It should show you to take some of these ultra light weight claims for what they are "claims" I am quite pleased with my bikes weight. For me, take in account that my bike is a 60cm. I could easily drop 1lb with wheels, but why bother. I weigh 195, percentage wise- my bike is quite light. As I said before- ride quality is WAY more important the low weight.

Jason

[Ozz]

It should show you to take some of these ultra light weight claims for what they are "claims" I am quite pleased with my bikes weight. For me, take in account that my bike is a 60cm. I could easily drop 1lb with wheels, but why bother. I weigh 195, percentage wise- my bike is quite light. As I said before- ride quality is WAY more important the low weight.

Jason

You could also drop a pound by riding a 50cm rather than a 60!! ;)

A lot of the feather-weight bikes I see hanging in shops (usually on a scale) are micro-sized...no offense intended to those who ride sub 50cm bikes :)

[dirtdigger88]

Good point Ozz,

the problem is I keep hitting my knees on the bars when I ride those 50 cm and under bikes :bike:

jason

[duke]

IF Steel Crown Jewel 57cm. Ouzo Pro, Record 10, Open Pros, Vittoria Corsa, Thomson Post, Terry Fly, ITM bars, Ti Speedplays. 18lbs. 4oz. (Cages are presently sitting on the workbench, it's cleaning day).
duke

[Litespeeder]

I have not read a whole lot about complete bike weights (frame, gruppo, wheels, etc.) and was interested in what some of your complete bike set-ups weigh, as most discussions seem to refer to frame and fork only. I recently rode 6 Gaps in Georgia with my OCLV Trek (my new travel bike) and left my prized Ottrott SL at home. For kicks I weighed both bikes to see the weight difference and the results were a follows:

Trek OCLV 120 with Dura Ace 9 speed (12-27), Chris King Headset, Zipp 303 clinchers, Alliante carbon rail saddle, Deda Blackstick seat post, Dura Ace SPD-SL pedals, Deda Newton bar/stem, aluminum bottle cages..........18.0 lbs.

2004 Ottrott ST with Dura Ace 10 speed (11-21), Chris King Headset, Mavic Cosmic Carbone clinchers, Aliante titanium rail saddle, Dura Ace seatpost, Dura Ace SPD SL pedals, Deda Newton bar/stem, Arundel bottle cages..19.2lbs

I was surprised at the weight of my Trek as I thought it would be lighter. Obviously, the Carbones are heavier than the Zipps, but the weight difference between the Trek and Ottrott was about what I expected. Any comments?


The OCLV 120 fork comes in at over 500g (Race Lite). The older OCLV 120 (pre 2003) had even heavier forks that were coming in at over 600 grams. I believe that the OCLV 120 had a proprietary fork and I'm not sure if you could swap it out for one of those lighter forks that seem so prevalent these days.

:bike:

[DJR]

Legend Ti with a full water bottle: 18.5 lbs

Gunnar commuting bike with full gear: 55 lbs

[vaxn8r]

Legend Ti with a full water bottle: 18.5 lbs



Sure that water bottle wasn't empty? Doesn't sound right to me. :rolleyes:

[Tony Edwards]

Moots VaMoots 61.5cm with 10-speed Chorus kit, Moots stem/Kestrel EMS Pro bar, Flite, Open Pros, PD-7750s - 18.5 lb

DeRosa Professional SLX 60cm with 8-speed Chorus kit, Salsa stem/TTT Merckx bar, Flite/Rithchey post, MA40s, Ultegra SPD-SLs - 22.5 lb

[DJR]

Sure that water bottle wasn't empty? Doesn't sound right to me.

vaxn8r


No really, add in a Nightsun dual beam lighting system (+ spare battery), clothes, running shoes, a very heavy laptop computer, assorted bike tools, lunch, and a few other misc. items.

:bike:

[bostondrunk]

All those bike weights sound awefully heavy.
A typical high end carbon frame weighs about 2.5 - 3 pounds depending on size.
Does anyone know how much an OCLV frameset (without fork) weighs? Like for an average size, maybe 56cm?

[Serotta PETE]

14 lbs 2 oz (Need to ask Spokes how he got it this light) :bike:

[zap]

BD-best I could find was a 54 Trek 5900 110 OCLV at 1125 grams over @ WW site.

If anyone cares, my 58 Klein Q Pro Carbon frame w/wb bolts (no seatpost clamp or headset) came in at 1265 grams and Aeros 110 carbon fork at 383 grams.

Its quite difficult to build a super light bike, especially if using Dura Ace group. After putting my light weight project together, I'm not surprised at the weights posted so far.

But darn it, a friend of mine has a 12 lb bike he put together. Sourced most parts such as AX Lightness, Storck & Tune from Europe.

[bostondrunk]

I know of two bikes with very standard high end builds that are 16lbs. As stated before, one is a Giant carbon medium with DA 10 speed, zipp 404's, thompson seatpost and a typical saddle (not one of the superlights like the slr), ultegra pedals, deda bars stem, 16 lbs.
The other is a 54 Calfee with Record 10 and the same other components as the giant, 16.5 lbs.

[spiderman]

about getting a new digital scale
in my office friday...
...the first weight obtained
won't be a patient
we plan to weigh my ottrott st
...ride ready, minus water and sweat!
i don't know about you
but i can hardly wait.
...it may give you another fine
reason to visit the middle of nowhere iowa...
...mecca for bike weights and measures...

[drbob]

Thanks for all the replies. As I thought, there is still a lot of confusion about what is "complete bike weight." What I consider as complete bike weight is the bike as ridden..........frame, stem ,fork, saddle ,wheel, pedals, bottle cages (no bottles) etc. When weighed in this way I do not think there are any (or very many) sub 16 lb bikes. By the way, my Trek OCLV was a 2001 56cm and the Serotta SL a 2004 custom 55cm x 55cm

[Spectrum Bob]

My compact Spectrum Ti (it is a small frame) without water bottles or saddle bag but everything else:
Record group
Neutron wheels
Speed play X1 pedals
Is 17 pounds 9 ounces

[froze]

I have and 84 size 56 lugged Reynolds 531cs steel Trek 660 with the entire Suntour Superbe group. As currently equipped with Armadillo tires, Brooks Swift saddle, heavier tall stem, water bottle cages I'm looking at 22.5 pounds. When I use to race the bike I had some lighter stuff like handlbars, stem, seat, and tubulars it weighed 20.5 pounds. And I sure if could have put on CF forks and some of the newer lighter wheels the bike would have been around 19 pounds. Also the old Superbe stuff is not as light as the new Campy Record stuff...but at least the Superbe stuff won't break even now with more then 140,000 miles on it.

Interesting note on the weight stuff, the rear Superbe derail is 125 grms heavier then Record but the front Superbe is 10 grms lighter then Record and the Superbe brakes (calipers and levers) are about 180 grms total lighter; but my Superbe crankset is about 45grms more, the Superbe headset is within a gram (my racing headset from Stronglite was actually 35grms less); the front Superbe hubs are within a gram, but my rear Superbe is about 15 grms more. So overall it's almost a wash between the old 84 components and the new stuff! The pedals are also close with the Superbe quills at 290 grms total vs Camp Record at 266 total.

[vaxn8r]

Interesting comparing the old stuff to new stuff. I ahve some of that old stuff but too lazy to take it off to get a weight. My old 80's racers all weighed about 21 lbs.

[shaq-d]

my '99 serotta cti 58cm with old chorus/record and cinelli bar/stem and mavic open pros is 21 lbs with alu water bottle holders.

my '83/84 pinarello treviso 58cm with old mixed downtube shifter and dura ace parts is 22 lbs with alu water bottle holder and ambrosio wheels. with the rack and seatback and everything else, it hardly makes a diff....

one thing for sure though, weight on the self is far better than weight on the bike, handling-wise.

sd

[LowCel]

My ti crown jewel weighs in at 16.3 pounds. That is with speedplay s/s zero pedals. I am very happy with the weight. However, once I add the seatpack and water bottles and start riding it the thing feels like it weighs 30 pounds, that could just be because my fat @$$ is on it though. :crap:

[spiderman]

why doesn't everyone use hydration packs?
is it because the pack weight
is more than a couple of bottle cages??
i'm trying to adjust to using a camelback
and it seems aerodynamic enough.
...bicycling magazine also recommended pack use
but it seems to be a much more common
accessory mountain bikers wear.

[christian]

...bicycling magazine also recommended pack use
but it seems to be a much more common
accessory mountain bikers wear.

I think the reason that mountain bikers wear packs is that a lot of those silly dual suspension rigs don't have room for bottle cages. I've got a Camelback, but I find it kind of hot and uncomfortable.

And it's not like I'm riding 600k unsupported in the Atacama. In NY and NJ, you can usually stop at a deli or convenience store or garden hose and fill your bottles. Two 21oz bottles is more than enough.

Cheers,
- Christian

[zap]

Dual suspension rigs silly?????

Mud, horse dung, deer turd, squirrel bits, etc, has a harder time reaching the mouth piece compared to water bottles mounted on the downtube.

Personally, I don't like the sweat buildup when emulating a camel, even if it's more aero.

With one 500ml bottle filled with water, my Klein weighs 16 lbs.

[dirtdigger88]

Yes, I did not like the tone of "silly dual suspension" either. I would offer to take anyone on a ride with one of these silly bicycles. They are quite fun.

Jason

[Ken Robb]

my dual suspension can take 2 bottles but I often use a camelback as well because I'm riding off the road where refills are not possible and I NEED all the capacity for water I can get.

[sevencyclist]

I find it easier to manuever the total package when the weight is on my back than when the weight is on the bike. On technical trails, I find a lighter bike much easier to handle than one with water bottle. The additional weight on my pack does not seem to make as much difference.

I have not looked at the science behind this, but I think our legs can carry the weight better than our arms. Any thoughts?

[dirtdigger88]

Well on most of the trails the I MTB on there is very little trail that I would want to ride one handed to drink. I can put the tube in my mouth on a climb or even on a downhill and get a drink. I sometimes have used my cammel back on my road bike but that is really only when I am going very rural and I am unsure if I will be able to refill my bottles.

Jason

[zap]

Hmmm, kind of sorta sevencyclist. Beside aesthetics, I carry a small zip lock bag with misc. tire & inflating stuff in one of my back pockets. Have a strong distaste for dinky bags hanging from ones saddle.

So on a minor scale, I can identify with your thought.

[William]

Well, I can't give any weights on the Serotta since it's been stripped of components and is going back to the factory.

My winter ride:
2001 63cm Bianchi SL Lite Alloy OS Aluminum, DA group, 44cm Cinelli bars, Ritchey stem, Crane Creek /Aheadset threadless, Ti Flite saddle, Ritchey MTB post, Mavic 04CD/Campy Omega V on DA hubs (blasphemous I know), Conti 28c's. Grand total (according to our digital bathroom scale) 18.2 lbs.

WAIT!!! Make that 18.199999 lbs, I broke a spoke sprinting out of a corner yesterday. Chucked it and trued as best I could for the ride home.:rolleyes:


Wheel fixing William :)

[Todd Owen]

1988 schwinn paramount ultegra group ...21 lbs.
Mid 80's Merckx Corsa campy Croce de Aune group ... 21 lbs.
mid 1980s peugeot touring bike simplex group .... 24 lbs.
trek 750 with fenders and big@$$ tires cheap shimano stuff.... 23 lbs.
take that you weight weiners!!!!!!!

DO I win anything?

[mso]

Seven Axiom - 16 lbs
Record
Velomax Ascent II
Deda Blackstick
Terry Dragonfly
TTT Less Stem

[christian]

Dual suspension rigs silly?????

For most riders, most of the time, absolutely. I don't deny that dual suspension rigs have their place in downhill competition, but I often see people riding ponderous dual suspension rigs on doubletrack and fire roads. Where I'm riding along on my 700x28s. I know, I know, you only ride your dual sus rig on the gnarliest singletrack there is and so on, but I still hold forth that the vast majority of mountain bikers are better served by bikes with less squeaky pivots and slushy travel.

Mud, horse dung, deer turd, squirrel bits, etc, has a harder time reaching the mouth piece compared to water bottles mounted on the downtube.

I've heard this tale told too, often with the added corollary that horse**** will cause tetanus, but I really doubt that this is the reason the majority of mountain bikers wear Camelbacks. I started riding mountain bikes way back in 1989-90 or so, before Camelbacks were commonplace. None of us died of tetanus.

Now, the argument that you don't want to take your hand off the bars, that I guess I can find reasonable. I'd rather do that, than lug around a rucksack of water. And for the record, I totally agree with Ken Robb's suggestion that Camelbacks are appropriate for long-distance backcountry touring. And I'd be happy to ride dual-sus bikes next time I'm in the 'Lou. All bikes are fun!

- Christian

[spiderman]

i think i'll leave the water bottle cages
mounted until i test my new scale.
i, too, can't seem to bring myself
to using an under-seat bag...
...i have my spare sew up
hung under my seat with 3 or 4
of my daughter's hair bands...
hey, maybe they make me look silly
but i am a d.o.d.o.
(dad of daughters only)
with hairy legs
and no one in particular to impress
on my solo rides out in the middle of nowhere!

[froze]

why doesn't everyone use hydration packs?.

I ride a road bike; usually I carry water bottles-up to 3 with 1 having a removeable frame clamp device so I can carry a 3rd bottle. BUT, having lived in the Mojave desert and having to ride in 100 degree heat, 3 24oz bottles would only last 2.5 hours tops, so if I wanted to ride longer I needed to carry more water; so I got a Camelback Rogue that is-or was-the smallest Camelback and held 70oz of fluid. So on those longer rides I carried the bottles and the Rogue so I would have at least 4.5 hours of fluid. Having said that I prefer using bottles only because I don't like stuff on my back, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do to ride longer. It wasn't an option for me to carry just bottles then go somewhere and refill because I rode on remote areas and finding water was not an option. When I did my annual 158 mile ride, along the way there were towns but I still needed to carry the bottles and the Rogue, so all I would have to do is stop 1/2 way to refill everything and get more to eat.

[tch]

I find all this anti-camelback sentiment amusing. My reason for using one has little to do with a need for huge amounts of water and more to do with the fact that weight on rider is far less noticeable than weight on the bike. Two full bottles adds 3 lbs under me; when I wear my camelback, my bike feels lighter and snappier (we did start this thread on bike weights, didn't we?). The reason I find the anti-camelback sentiment amusing is because I think MOST people's objections have to do more with the "image" than the practicality. Road riders with c-backs are "dorks"; they're not "racer-like". Fine. But I have all the water I want, with a lighter machine under me, and, after one ride, I've never really noticed the bag on my shoulders. Oh, and I have a built-in place to put my keys, vest, etc....

[froze]

the fact that weight on rider is far less noticeable than weight on the bike. Two full bottles adds 3 lbs under me; when I wear my camelback, my bike feels lighter and snappier..

Where do these facts come from? If you are carry 2 24oz bottles of water that weigh a total of 3 pounds of fluid (not including the weight of the bottles-I'll just keep it simple), vs 3 pounds of water on your back. At both locations the weight is known as static weight-not rotating weight. The only way that 3 pounds of static weight would be less noticeable on your bike vs on your back would be if you weren't on the bike!! 3 pounds of weight is 3 pounds of weight. If you had your bike on a scale with you on the bike and put 3 pounds of weight attached to the frame then weighed it, then moved the weight to your back and weighed it again, the total weight is the same. Your logic is the same kind of logic as this: which is heavier 3 pounds of lead or 3 pounds of feathers and your answer would be the lead is heavier!!!

Now I do agree with some people having an aversion to Camelbacks, but I don't feel that feeling represents most of the people. I prefer not to have the weight on my back because it can tire you out a bit quicker, it's hotter on your back, and makes you a tad more top heavy; so if anything your energy especially on long rides would be drained more with the weight on your back; BUT none of those reasons I gave are a major factor-just nick picky.

[vaxn8r]

He didn't say his bike was lighter. He said it felt lighter and snappier. How can you possibly argue against someone's opinion?

Your logic is the same kind of logic as this: which is heavier 3 pounds of lead or 3 pounds of feathers and your answer would be the lead is heavier!!!Froze, I like a lot of what you say but sometimes you come on way too strong. Lighten up a little.

[dirtdigger88]

Froze,

Which is heavier one pound of feathers or one pound of gold? ;)

Jason

[Ozz]

what do they have to say on the subject?

[spiderman]

at 18.25 #
ottrott st with 9 speed dura ace, fsa carbon bars, shimano carbon wheels,
arione saddle, look pedals, 2 water cages, carbone frame pump,
spare sprinter tire, stem mounted specialized cycle computer...oh, yeah mavic brakes, ck headset, ritchey stem, sync seatpost
and serotta barend plugs...
not wearing a pantsuit, but
wearing spiderman jersey, spidey socks, serotta bibs, cell phone and pager
for my noon ride.
and for the record
17 town and country miles in 45 minutes at noon
(with one hospital page and return one-handed call at the end of the ride)
without water, camelback or bottles...
and with a tailwind
the entire ride.

[tch]

I did say I "feel" like my bike is lighter and snappier. Of course 3 pounds is 3 pounds. What I meant is that, personally, I don't notice it as much on my back as I do on the frame under me; if others do -- fine. [Althought to be pedantic and press my point, if frame weight isn't felt, I wonder why so many pay so much for ultra-light parts and why we are even reading this thread].

I do continue to believe, however, that much anti-camelback (along with anti-positive rise stem) sentiment has to do with perceived aesthetics and "image", and not so much with function.

[ericmurphy]

My 58 cm Legend with OS tubing, F2 Fork, DA 10, DA 7800 Wheelset, Magic Stick post, Arione saddle, Guizzo stem, WCS bars, cheap Shimano double-sided MTB pedals, Carbon Race Pros: 18 pounds on my digital scale, 17.5 on City Cycle's scale.

This bike has no water bottle cages or saddle-bag (that's what god invented the Camelback for). The only thing on the bike that's not a necessary part of the bike is the computer (Flight Deck 6502). When I had this bike built, I developed this fetish where I didn't want anything unnecessary (bottle cages, tail lights, saddle bags, etc.) permanently on the bike. The lack of aesthetics in the rider (which wasn't that great to begin with) is more than made up, in my opinion, in the increased aesthetics of the bike.

This time of year, my rides out in the middle of nowhere are often done in 90-degree heat (I know, not very impressive to you East Coasters and southerners, but 90% of my rides year round are done with temps in the 50s). Some of these rides will go 30 or 40 miles without even a house, let alone a store where you could refill a water bottle. Knowing I can do a completely unsupported 75-mile ride in 90-degree heat makes the added weight on my back well worth it.

Does it matter whether the weight is on me or the bike? I'm sure it doesn't. The damned Camelback weighs ten pounds when the hydration bladder is full! On the other hand, it only weighs three pounds at the end of the ride...

[spiderman]

your post void residual...
...whatever that means...
sounds like you have a 7 pound bladder capacity.
...i've just never thought of it that way before.

[froze]

Froze, I like a lot of what you say but sometimes you come on way too strong. Lighten up a little.

I'll lighten up as soon as I get this 3 pounds of lead off my back!

[shinomaster]

My caad 4 with record and neutron wheelios weighs 17.5 lbs

the Atlanta with chorus weighs 20+ lbs

I seriously hate riding with anything on my back...except my monkey..