Veloflex Carbon Vs. Continental Competition

[saab2000]

What say the experts here? I need some and TooTall likes his Contis. I liked my Veloflexes and am inclined to get more. But am willing to listen to reason.

[bostondrunk]

I've used both...
I thought the Carbons were smoother rolling, but I continue to use contis most of the time simply because I have more faith in their puncture resistance.
If you haven't had any issues with flats on the Carbons, then I'd stick with them I guess.

[rustychisel]

Veloflex. No question in my mind.

[sspielman]

Continental- the brand of tubular for people who like the ride of clinchers.....

[Too Tall]

You have had good luck with Veloflex, why pizz off the spirit g-ds?
The Veloflex have a better ride FWIIW. I like my conti's because the ride is very decent and are way tougher than Veloflex. My story.

[saab2000]

You have had good luck with Veloflex, why pizz off the spirit g-ds?
The Veloflex have a better ride FWIIW. I like my conti's because the ride is very decent and are way tougher than Veloflex. My story.

And your story is the one I was looking for. I was at the Bicycle Pro Shop in Georgetown and he had some Competitions. Didn't buy yet, but I am intrigued. They seem decent.

Still, the Veloflexes are sublime. It'll prolly be Veloflexes again.

[BdaGhisallo]

Don't lose sight of the difference in mounting the tubs. Contis do not stretch much and I have always found them an absolute b*tch to mount on a rim. The Carbons, otoh, stretch nicely after a few days on a rim and mount quite a bit more easily.

[sspielman]

Seriously, I think that riders below about 160 lbs find the Continentals a bit harsh...the sidewalls seem mighty stiff. Veloflexes seem as good as it gets with respect to ride....
With tires of this caliber, flat resistance is more a function of your spiritual purity than any inherent properties of the tires....ATMO...

[saab2000]

Seriously, I think that riders below about 160 lbs find the Continentals a bit harsh...the sidewalls seem mighty stiff. Veloflexes seem as good as it gets with respect to ride....
With tires of this caliber, flat resistance is more a function of your spiritual purity than any inherent properties of the tires....ATMO...

It's also a matter of going over your tires with a pick to remove tiny shards of glass. Seriously. Takes about 1 minute per tire.

[oldguy00]

Are veloflexes less flat resistant than continentals?

[sspielman]

It's also a matter of going over your tires with a pick to remove tiny shards of glass. Seriously. Takes about 1 minute per tire.


That is a form of religious ritual.....lighting a dozen candles in a dark room and chanting a mantra is just as effective....

[saab2000]

Are veloflexes less flat resistant than continentals?

I cannot speak about Contis, but my Veloflexes have been excellent WRT to flats. Again, I am very particular with them because they are spendy and do take the time to go over them picking out debris before I ride them. In the past 3 years or so I have been back on tubulars I have had one real flat that wasn't the result of a tire just wearing out. My experience has been good.

[saab2000]

That is a form of religious ritual.....lighting a dozen candles in a dark room and chanting a mantra is just as effective....


I use incense as well. The priests come through (before the sacrices are made) with their censors, wafting smoke throughout the room.

You too?

[sspielman]

I use incense as well. The priests come through (before the sacrices are made) with their censors, wafting smoke throughout the room.

You too?

Absolutely.....Speaking of sacrifices, where do you find your virgins?....They seem to be in short supply around here.....

[saab2000]

Absolutely.....Speaking of sacrifices, where do you find your virgins?....They seem to be in short supply around here.....

Why do you think I work in the airline business? The connection now becomes clear! :D

[sspielman]

Why do you think I work in the airline business? The connection now becomes clear! :D

AWESOME!

[paczki]

I've ridden them both recently. I'm 200 lbs, so it may be the size talking, but I found them different but both very comfortable. I certainly didn't think the Contis rode like a clincher -- I used Conti clinchers for comparison. I really like the tread pattern on the Competition.

[theprep]

If you can wear out Carbons with out flatting them, then stick to the Carbons. That's an easy one.

For my neck of the woods, our BD's sell a lot of scunky Heineken and there is green glass everywhere on the roads (actually 75% green, 25% amber). I have flatted new Veloflex's with only a 100 miles on em.

If I had to buy tubulars today, I think I would try the Continentals (4000s or Competitions) because of the perceived increase in durability. I think they are on to something with that Black Chili compound. The 4000 s clinchers I have are pretty sweet. I used them for Battenkill and they don't have a scratch on them.

[chrisroph]

one rides much better, the other is much more durable. i'm a bit of a freak but i really like contis on the rear and something more supple on the front, i have multiple sets of wheels-tubular and clincher--set up that way.

[11.4]

spiritual purity

???

[11.4]

where do you find your virgins?

OK. Bizarre thread. Somebody's been sniffing the rubber.

My $0.02: A rider over 165 or so won't notice as much difference in ride between Conti Competitions and Veloflex Carbons/Criteriums, or what is noticeable can be tuned out with tire pressure. Light riders won't ever be able to get rid of tire-related ride differences but going to big diameters or low pressures isn't necessarily the solution either. The best solution to an uncomfortable ride on tires is to go fast. Honestly.

[tbushnel]

OK. Bizarre thread. Somebody's been sniffing the rubber.

Just one more reason to buy your glue in tubes rather than the can :)
ted

[terrytnt]

Veloflex all the way! Heres WHY: This evening, my Veloflex Carbon Blew-out while on my TT rollers. But get a load of this - THE MILAGE WAS OVER 4500 MILES (WITHOUT A FLAT). That's why I ride tubulars!!!

Question, however about glue. Does anyone know if Mastix comes in a can vs. a tube? Also, I've always used my finger vs. an acid free brush to apply the glue. Does anyone use a brush?

just curious?

[TMB]

Veloflex all the way! Heres WHY: This evening, my Veloflex Carbon Blew-out while on my TT rollers. But get a load of this - THE MILAGE WAS OVER 4500 MILES (WITHOUT A FLAT). That's why I ride tubulars!!!

Question, however about glue. Does anyone know if Mastix comes in a can vs. a tube? Also, I've always used my finger vs. an acid free brush to apply the glue. Does anyone use a brush?

just curious?

http://probikekit.com/display.php?code=Y1217

[cadence231]

I'm must be in a severe karma coma (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=531418#post531418) then.
I'll have my mom "light a candle for me" at church.
I'm going for Veloflex in the future.
I like to smell my fingers after gluing.

Love,

Mary Katherine Gallagher

[terrytnt]

Thanks for the tip from Probikekit...

I don't usually order from overseas, has anyone in the us used Probikekit on a regular basis? How does it work with the dollar conversion and shipping time/ cost?

[paczki]

I know this has been covered before, but since the tubists are near at hand -- does Conti glue work best with Contis? I remember some suggestion that Vittoria might work better.

[Too Tall]

Thanks for the tip from Probikekit...

I don't usually order from overseas, has anyone in the us used Probikekit on a regular basis? How does it work with the dollar conversion and shipping time/ cost?
Terry, order cans of mastik one from the nice mom and pop business at worldclasscycles Remember to keep the can lid on so that the solvent does not evaporate. You can continue using your finger however try using a small sandwhich baggie as a cover, the glue will not melt that type of plastic. An even better solution is to get the cheap flux brushes by the bag and go nuts...brushing produces a much more even coat of glue without tendency to over apply. Enjoy the fumes ;)

[regularguy412]

I know this has been covered before, but since the tubists are near at hand -- does Conti glue work best with Contis? I remember some suggestion that Vittoria might work better.

I've used Vittoria Red and Conti Clear. My experience has been that the Vittoria Red pretty much sticks like iron once it sets up. Once it gets really hard, it's pretty difficult to clean off the rim when you get ready to re-glue. It tends to turn a bit chalky after being glued-up for a couple of years.

The Conti Clear does an adequate job and is not nearly as difficult to work with (down the road). I've only been using it for a couple of years, but the tires I've re-glued after using it seem 'stuck' almost as well as with the Vittoria. Additionally, it didn't seem to turn chalky. I was able to just apply new Clear over the top and didn't have to clean the rim after only one gluing.

I've never glued / used CX tubulars, but if I did, I'd probably lean toward using the Vittoria Red or the much-heralded Mastic One. Otherwise, I like the Conti better for road use.

Mike in AR:beer:

[Too Tall]

"The Clear"

BALCO ALERT!!!! ;)

[ClutchCargo]

Veloflex all the way! . . . Does anyone know if Mastix comes in a can vs. a tube? Also, I've always used my finger vs. an acid free brush to apply the glue. Does anyone use a brush?

just curious?

when I looked recently at probikekit they were all out of the mastik1 in the can, but try here: http://worldclasscycles.com/ -- they have it and really are classy people (darn good prices too!)

good luck!

[tbushnel]

Question, however about glue. Does anyone know if Mastix comes in a can vs. a tube? Also, I've always used my finger vs. an acid free brush to apply the glue. Does anyone use a brush?

just curious?

Got my can from WorldClass Cycles - I have heard from someone much smarter than I that there can be problems with sedimentation in the cans, even with the new formulation so unless you use it up quickly it might be better to use the tubes. I do like using the cans though. I use a 1/2 inch glue brush that spreads the glue very quickly and easily and this is easier to use with a can. That said, I will probably just get tubes from now on.
WorldClass is great to buy from too.
ted.

[Oirad]

OK. Bizarre thread. Somebody's been sniffing the rubber.

My $0.02: A rider over 165 or so won't notice as much difference in ride between Conti Competitions and Veloflex Carbons/Criteriums, or what is noticeable can be tuned out with tire pressure. Light riders won't ever be able to get rid of tire-related ride differences but going to big diameters or low pressures isn't necessarily the solution either. The best solution to an uncomfortable ride on tires is to go fast. Honestly.

11.4 and/or others,

Could you point me to a past thread on this forum about light weight riders and the tubular/clincher ride differences. As a skinny runt, I've ridden both. Love the tubulars, but just don't understand the logic of 11.4's statement and want to know more. Thanks!

Oirad

[Too Tall]

Got my can from WorldClass Cycles - I have heard from someone much smarter than I that there can be problems with sedimentation in the cans, even with the new formulation so unless you use it up quickly it might be better to use the tubes. I do like using the cans though. I use a 1/2 inch glue brush that spreads the glue very quickly and easily and this is easier to use with a can. That said, I will probably just get tubes from now on.
WorldClass is great to buy from too.
ted.
Not so much sedimentation as some spearation which happens with tubes of glue also...just remember to mix the can before use. Same for tubes of glue. It is pretty SOP to poke a clean spoke into the tube and give it a few swirls before using the glue.

[tbushnel]

Not so much sedimentation as some spearation which happens with tubes of glue also...just remember to mix the can before use. Same for tubes of glue. It is pretty SOP to poke a clean spoke into the tube and give it a few swirls before using the glue.

Good. I was already doing this just in case it might help. I love my can of Mastik :)

"SOP" - help me with this one. I can't think today. :crap: Its Friday and the sun is out. :beer:

ted

[11.4]

tubists

Is that like papists?

Used to be that some people had erratic problems with Conti base tapes when using Mastik or other brands of rim cement. Then Conti changed their base tape mounting, both Conti and Mastik changed their formulations, and methods have become a bit more refined.

It did appear that overloading a Conti base tape with too-thick a coat of fresh rim cement could cause enough solvent to attack the latex adhesive holding the base tape and encourage it to release. Thinner layers, at least for the first one or two layers, usually averted the problem -- you just brushed enough with a flux brush to make it nice and yellow but not to create a build-up on the first coat and everything was golden (so to speak). Nowadays I haven't seen anyone raise a problem with the newer black-colored Conti base tapes and newer Mastik One formulation. When black base tapes first came out, Conti had one short run that was poorly attached, but thereafter they've been relatively problem free. Has anyone run into such a problem lately? I'd be interested in hearing.

[jthurow]

SOP=standard operating procedure

jimi

[catulle]

I find the ride of the Continental a bit harsher, but they do tend to last forever. Regarding glue, I have both Continental and Mastik but for some primitive visceral reason I tend to feel safer with the Continental stuff. Both will get you as high, though.

[roman meal]

"Hello? Do you have Mastik in a can?

Well if you do, you'd better let him out before he suffocates."

[paczki]

"Hello? Do you have Mastik in a can?

Well if you do, you'd better let him out before he suffocates."

(rimshot)

[saab2000]

Just ordered some Veloflex Carbons. Not much more than the Continentals and the 300 TPI instead of 240 TPI swayed me.

Now, about removing that latex on the base tape. Must sheepishly admit to having never done it. How? Also, I want the straightest, roundest installation possible. I am not bad at tubular installation, but can always learn new tricks.

How do you guys get them on and then center them or manipulate the tire in any way? It seems like as soon as there is glue contacting glue, the bond is practically permanent almost immediately. Yet I have seen a perfectly straight and round tubular once with no gaps at all and perfect glue distribution. I want mine like that. How?

[catulle]

First and foremost, use very light layers of glue. Less is more. Let the glue dry. I take that back, above all, make sure you've stretched those tubulars very well. I keep them for months on rims. Ok, so now the glue is dry after having applied several LIGHT layers of glue. Install the tubular. Inflate to some 30-40lbs. Check it out. Take some air out if needed, you can adjust it just fine. It's not contact cement, nor Crazy Glue.

Make sure the tubulars are stretched, use LIGHT coats of glue, let the glue dry (that is, that it ain't sticky to the touch), and you'll have glued tubulars that will look cleaner than a clincher and that will be safe enough to descend 17º corkscrews at 80mph. Ehem, I've never tried that before, not nearly, atmo.

[saab2000]

First and foremost, use very light layers of glue. Less is more. Let the glue dry. I take that back, above all, make sure you've stretched those tubulars very well. I keep them for months on rims. Ok, so now the glue is dry after having applied several LIGHT layers of glue. Install the tubular. Inflate to some 30-40lbs. Check it out. Take some air out if needed, you can adjust it just fine. It's not contact cement, nor Crazy Glue.

Make sure the tubulars are stretched, use LIGHT coats of glue, let the glue dry (that is, that it ain't sticky to the touch), and you'll have glued tubulars that will look cleaner than a clincher and that will be safe enough to descend 17º corkscrews at 80mph. Ehem, I've never tried that before, not nearly, atmo.

If the glue is dry to the touch, how will it bond? I know that sounds dumb for a lifelong tubular user (sort of), but I have always installed them kind of tacky and this makes for a messy installation.

So, thin coats. Several. On the tire too. how long after the coats of glue are dry do I install the tire?

I know I can do a safe installation, but I want to do a clean and really proper installation.

[Jack Brunk]

Use Tufo Extreme tape. It's easy, reliable and is very clean.

[chrisroph]

If the glue is dry to the touch, how will it bond? I know that sounds dumb for a lifelong tubular user (sort of), but I have always installed them kind of tacky and this makes for a messy installation.

So, thin coats. Several. On the tire too. how long after the coats of glue are dry do I install the tire?

I know I can do a safe installation, but I want to do a clean and really proper installation.

jim, you know how to do it.

i use usually 2 thin layers on tire and rim and then mount wet so you can move the tire around to get it as square as possible before it sets up.

[saab2000]

jim, you know how to do it.

i use usually 2 thin layers on tire and rim and then mount wet so you can move the tire around to get it as square as possible before it sets up.

I have tried that and they aren't all that mobile once on. I can't really just slide them around. Anyway, they are such good tires that they mostly are fine. I have just seen that one glue job that will always be the gold standard and mine glue jobs are not as clean or even and the tire is not as perfectly squared up as that one was.

[mister]

Is that like papists?

Used to be that some people had erratic problems with Conti base tapes when using Mastik or other brands of rim cement. Then Conti changed their base tape mounting, both Conti and Mastik changed their formulations, and methods have become a bit more refined.

It did appear that overloading a Conti base tape with too-thick a coat of fresh rim cement could cause enough solvent to attack the latex adhesive holding the base tape and encourage it to release. Thinner layers, at least for the first one or two layers, usually averted the problem -- you just brushed enough with a flux brush to make it nice and yellow but not to create a build-up on the first coat and everything was golden (so to speak). Nowadays I haven't seen anyone raise a problem with the newer black-colored Conti base tapes and newer Mastik One formulation. When black base tapes first came out, Conti had one short run that was poorly attached, but thereafter they've been relatively problem free. Has anyone run into such a problem lately? I'd be interested in hearing.

back when i first started using tubs (not that long ago), maybe the tenth tire i glued, i had a sprinter that had the basetape start to seperate. it was along the outer edge of the rim where the tape hung over. it started curling out a little (on a saavedra turbo, kinda narrow) after about a month of riding i guess. i thought it was because i rode in the rain a few times.
this was back then i hadn't figured out the best way to apply the glue so it's possible i saturated the tape with mastik one...it was a sprinter 2007.

[regularguy412]

If you've only used Conti's before, that could be the difference you feel. From what's been said on the forum, the Velovlex tires don't fit quite as snugly. I've never used them, so I can only speak informatively about the Conti's. The first stretch of Conti's on rims (dry) is usually a bear. I, too, leave my Conti's stretching for several weeks before trying to mount them. I suspect with the Velo's, you'll be able to move them around, glue and all, with reasonable ease and accuracy, once they've stretched.

Mike in AR:beer:

[SimonC]

I found this series of video tutorials very helpful. Though I did come away thinking that it seems to take a week to properly install a tubular, and perhaps I'd be better off with clinchers :rolleyes:

VeloNews Tubular Tutorials (http://www.velonews.com/article/74487/bike-tech-tubular-tires-a-four-part-video-tutorial)

[chrisroph]

I have tried that and they aren't all that mobile once on. I can't really just slide them around. Anyway, they are such good tires that they mostly are fine. I have just seen that one glue job that will always be the gold standard and mine glue jobs are not as clean or even and the tire is not as perfectly squared up as that one was.

they are usually pretty tight but with a supple veloflex, a nice wet layer, and maybe 40 lbs in the tire you should be able to grab the tire, lift it off the rim a little and move it around. the air in the tire makes the tire kind of a solid structure that will take the natural set of the casing.. not all tires are perfectly straight so the natural set may not be perfectly straight. but what i describe works pretty well.

[catulle]

If the glue is dry to the touch, how will it bond? I know that sounds dumb for a lifelong tubular user (sort of), but I have always installed them kind of tacky and this makes for a messy installation.

So, thin coats. Several. On the tire too. how long after the coats of glue are dry do I install the tire?

I know I can do a safe installation, but I want to do a clean and really proper installation.

That's the nature of the beast. If you apply thin coats, you'll find that in ten minutes or so the glue will be dry to the touch. The key to a clean installation is to use thin layers and let them dry (and that the tubular has been properly stretched.) It's kind 'a counterintuitive to let the glue dry, but that's also very common with wood cements. Or even with a inner tube patch.

The Tufo tape is a bit cumbersome. Very easy to install, and you might want to carry some in case of a flat tire. But usually the tape is too wide for the tubular/rim and the sticky stuff will protrude from the sides of the tubular and it gets messy from there on. There is nothing like a good glue job.

[catulle]

That's the nature of the beast. If you apply thin coats, you'll find that in ten minutes or so the glue will be dry to the touch. The key to a clean installation is to use thin layers and let them dry (and that the tubular has been properly stretched.) It's kind 'a counterintuitive to let the glue dry, but that's also very common with wood cements. Or even with a inner tube patch.

The Tufo tape is a bit cumbersome. Very easy to install, and you might want to carry some in case of a flat tire. But usually the tape is too wide for the tubular/rim and the sticky stuff will protrude from the sides of the tubular and it gets messy from there on. There is nothing like a good glue job.

I mean, apply glue, let it dry, apply some more, let it dry... The base tape needs to absorb the glue. I learned from Atmo to use rubber gloves to glue tubulars and it was a good tip. Hell, forty years ago we'd glue tubulars with shellac that we'd borrow from a car mechanic. No gloves, no Mastik, and after sometime and several changes of tire the shellac would dry and off you went to the hard ground on a fast turn.

[paczki]

I mean, apply glue, let it dry, apply some more, let it dry... The base tape needs to absorb the glue. I learned from Atmo to use rubber gloves to glue tubulars and it was a good tip. Hell, forty years ago we'd glue tubulars with shellac that we'd borrow from a car mechanic. No gloves, no Mastik, and after sometime and several changes of tire the shellac would dry and off you went to the hard ground on a fast turn.

How long do you wait between layers? Until it's dry to the touch, or longer to be safe?

[catulle]

How long do you wait between layers? Until it's dry to the touch, or longer to be safe?

Good question. It depends upon the moon and my position vis a vis it. That is, sometimes I just need to get the job done and roll. Some other times I want to have a good time and enjoy the journey. You know, like that other thingmo. I like it better when it lasts longer, though.

[paczki]

Good question. It depends upon the moon and my position vis a vis it. That is, sometimes I just need to get the job done and roll. Some other times I want to have a good time and enjoy the journey. You know, like that other thingmo. I like it better when it lasts longer, though.

Beautifully said :banana:

[ThasFACE]

Resurrecting this thread to ask a question/do a little bit of thread drift...

Anyway, I have about 1k on my rear veloflex carbon and within the past week or so I have noticed the tire losing air rather quickly; as in, I'll pump it up and after an hour and a half of riding I have lost enough pressure that I need to add air in order to avoid bottoming out the rim. I got out the super glue and checked for any nicks/cuts (did end up laying down some glue), but the problem persisted.

Before my ride today I decided to just go ahead and PitStop the tire to see if that would make a difference... and it looks like it has... but, when I topped off the air after my ride (to see how the post-pitstop tire holds pressure overnight), I noticed a significant bulge at the sidewall/tread intersection. I had previously seen the bulge, but it had been smaller (I think). I had the tire pumped to about 105 and the bulge stuck out like a pimple; it was maybe .75cm in diameter and stuck out nearly .5cm.

I backed off the pressure to about 85psi and the bulge pretty much disappeared, but I usually ride with about 110psi in that tire so I will likely have to ride with that tire pimple if I want to ride that tire at all. I don't think that the pitstop exacerbated the bulge other than to facilitate me riding on it more, but I'm curious to hear any thoughts on a course of action.

Is my tire dead? Is it time to restrict it to emergency/spare duty?

[regularguy412]

Is my tire dead? Is it time to restrict it to emergency/spare duty?


I would relegate it to 'true' emergency use. If it's already becoming a problem, it likely won't go away on its own. Do you really want to change a tire in the oncoming summer's heat or pouring rain?

"An ounce of prevention......."

Mike in AR:beer:

[ThasFACE]

"An ounce of prevention......."

Yeah, I went ahead and replaced it with a fresh carbon so now I have a spare.

As a side note, tufo extreme tape is strong.

[0523jk]

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[gone]

Thanks for the tip from Probikekit...

I don't usually order from overseas, has anyone in the us used Probikekit on a regular basis? How does it work with the dollar conversion and shipping time/ cost?
Sorry Terry, I didn't see your question until now and since I've not seen a response on this thread I thought I'd reply.

I've ordered from Probikekit a number of times. The prices have been good and the service and shipping excellent. They usually (though not always) have free shipping and obviously no sales tax. Note however that many (if not all) credit card companies charge a "Foreign Transaction Fee" that's a percentage of the total price. How much depends on whether or not the CEO of the bank is refitting his yacht that year.

[djg]

Sorry Terry, I didn't see your question until now and since I've not seen a response on this thread I thought I'd reply.

I've ordered from Probikekit a number of times. The prices have been good and the service and shipping excellent. They usually (though not always) have free shipping and obviously no sales tax. Note however that many (if not all) credit card companies charge a "Foreign Transaction Fee" that's a percentage of the total price. How much depends on whether or not the CEO of the bank is refitting his yacht that year.

I've found their predicted dollar prices to be pretty close -- not spot on necessarily, but close enough if I'm not counting change. Shipping for me has been pretty good, if somewhat variable -- I've had things show up in three days and I've had things show up in ten, although I've never had any really long delays. One thing I like is the running total of stock that they show on the web site and the use of e-mail notification rather than mysterious back-orders. In the past year I've ordered both Veloflex Carbons and Conti GP4000 tubulars from them without problems (these are not tires typically hanging on a peg in the LBS, at least not around here).