Rethinking brifters

[rpm]

Over the last month, I've been switching among three bikes that have respectively Ultegra brifters, Sram Red brifters, and Dura-Ace bar ends. What I've been noticing is that all three are pretty much equally easy to shift.

And I certainly do enjoy being able micro-trim the front derailleur on the bar end bike, and I don't enjoy not being able to trim the brifter bikes. Yes, I know that the Shimano and Sram brifters do trim when the derailleurs are adjusted just right, but for me that time lasts about 5 minutes.

I'm not ready to go all the way back to downtube friction shifting, but if $500 brifters went away entirely, I could be perfectly happy with $90 bar ends and $40 brake calipers.

[shinomaster]

It's all a bunch of marketing crap. If I had to, I could ride just fine on my old paramount with 8 speed ultegra sti. It shifted great.

[eddief]

I just remodeled my Kogswell travel bike. Since I have not been traveling much, thought I'd take off the downtube shifters(easier to pack and repack I thought) and replaced them with Ultegra brifters...and took off the 90 degree Salsa SUL and stuck in a 105 degree stem.

My pure enjoyment and comfort riding with brifters vs downtubes and a higher stem have rejuvenated my delight in pedaling this bike.

[Ray]

I have two road bikes, one with brifters and one with barcons. I've had many of each over the years. The ONLY advantage I find with brifters is the ability to shift while standing. I'm not even sure this is an advantage, but it is one thing you can do easily with brifters and barely or not at all without 'em. When I ride my brifter bike (just got back from about 40 on it) I find that I do shift while standing. When I'm on the barcon bike I never seem to miss it and never wish I could. Unless that matters to you, they're just a bunch of money.

Whenever I go back to downtube shifters, I realize I don't love 'em anymore. Don't like having to take my hand off on a fast and bumpy descent. Which doesn't happen often, but often enough to realize I'd rather have barcons.

-Ray

[rpm]

I just remodeled my Kogswell travel bike. Since I have not been traveling much, thought I'd take off the downtube shifters(easier to pack and repack I thought) and replaced them with Ultegra brifters...and took off the 90 degree Salsa SUL and stuck in a 105 degree stem.

My pure enjoyment and comfort riding with brifters vs downtubes and a higher stem have rejuvenated my delight in pedaling this bike.

I'm higher than I used to be too, and the trip down to the downtube is too long for me. But bar ends go up when the bars go up, just like brifters. Sometime I'd also like to try the Rivendell idea of putting Paul's thumbies next to the stem on drop bars.

[Wiley J]

I've thought that a nice set-up would be friction barcon for the front, and brifter for the rear. The only problem would be the hoods wouldn't match.

[Ahneida Ride]

ok

On a 64 or 65 cm frame.... How does one reach down there
to the downtube shifters ?

[William]

ok

On a 64 or 65 cm frame.... How does one reach down there
to the downtube shifters ?

There's a downtube way down there??? :confused:





William ;)

[Fixed]

bro to be good with d.t.'s you have to be good in the drops .
cheers
when I ride them I tell myself it's a funny single speed bike .
imho

[Chris]

Come on guys. I mean, I get the steel is still a good material to build a bike from, and the do we really need 10 speed or higher, but brifters are a decided advantage. Beyond the convenience, they bring a ton of safety to riding. In order to reach down to the downtube, you take a hand off of the bar. I know all of you riding maestros have that perfected, but do any of you remember racing in the rain or just riding in a tight paceline with dt shifters? How many times did a guy bite it or nearly bite it because he took his hand off to shift right before that bump in the road or before some guy moved over on him. Your hands are better off on the bars. Moving the shifting up there makes things better for everyone.

[TMB]

ok

On a 64 or 65 cm frame.... How does one reach down there
to the downtube shifters ?

Generally I would think someone on a bike that tall would longish arms ..........

[flux]

What is a "brifter"? :no:

I thought they were called STI's, Ergopower's, or Double Tap's. :)

Can we all please just rise above the term "brifter"? Please. :beer:

[eddief]

I agree. Safety is a benefit, but for me pure riding comfort and control without having to move my hands from the tops makes sense to me.

Even with barends one is constantly having to move hands unless you are one who stays in the drops for long periods of time. Not me.

[fiamme red]

What is a "brifter"? :no:

I thought they were called STI's, Ergopower's, or Double Tap's. :)

Can we all please just rise above the term "brifter"? Please. :beer:Fine. I'll call them "brifteurs" from now on. :p

[michael white]

I use brifteurs for most of my miles, but still enjoy dt friction shifters. In a faster ride with hills and fast friends I would usually take the brieftoors

but it's still kind of nice to be able to use any only wheel with friction, or any old derailleur. I use three different kinds of friction, at least. I think if I don't have time to reach down and shift, maybe I should rethink the whole deal.

[wanderingwheel]

I like bar ends, I can shift with my knees. Except when I didn't mean to. :crap:

[thejen12]

I like bar ends, I can shift with my knees. Except when I didn't mean to. :crap:
Cut an inch off the ends of your handlebars before installing the bar ends.

Jenn

[Big Daddy]

What is a "brifter"? :no:

I thought they were called STI's, Ergopower's, or Double Tap's. :)

Can we all please just rise above the term "brifter"? Please. :beer:


Danish for someone who takes their clothes off for money...come to think of it, so is double tap.

[palincss]

Over the last month, I've been switching among three bikes that have respectively Ultegra brifters, Sram Red brifters, and Dura-Ace bar ends. What I've been noticing is that all three are pretty much equally easy to shift.

And I certainly do enjoy being able micro-trim the front derailleur on the bar end bike, and I don't enjoy not being able to trim the brifter bikes. Yes, I know that the Shimano and Sram brifters do trim when the derailleurs are adjusted just right, but for me that time lasts about 5 minutes.

I'm not ready to go all the way back to downtube friction shifting, but if $500 brifters went away entirely, I could be perfectly happy with $90 bar ends and $40 brake calipers.

You get some very nice-feeling brake levers in exchange, too. Personally, I (a bar end shifter user exclusively) really dislike the feel of brifters and love the feel of the Shimano aero brake lever.

[palincss]

ok

On a 64 or 65 cm frame.... How does one reach down there
to the downtube shifters ?

Never mind 64, I have trouble on a 60cm.

[palincss]

What is a "brifter"? :no:

I thought they were called STI's, Ergopower's, or Double Tap's. :)

Can we all please just rise above the term "brifter"? Please. :beer:

"Brifter
A combination brake/shift lever, such as a Campagnolo Ergo or Shimano S.T.I. unit. This term was coined by Bruce Frech."

-- http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_bo-z.html

"Rise above"? I'd rather honor Sheldon, thanks.

[fiamme red]

"Rise above"? I'd rather honor Sheldon, thanks.And Bruce Frech, who was killed in a car accident:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_frm/thread/35130f2fdca8d5ff/ee86f0eadba8a373?#ee86f0eadba8a373

[Ray]

And Bruce Frech, who was killed in a car accident:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_frm/thread/35130f2fdca8d5ff/ee86f0eadba8a373?#ee86f0eadba8a373
Yes, DRIVING, not riding. Hit some ice. Bruce was a great guy. And its a useful damn word, even if not very artful.

-Ray

[erikbrooks]

I've thought that a nice set-up would be friction barcon for the front, and brifter for the rear. The only problem would be the hoods wouldn't match.

That's what I have on my cross bike. I started racing cross with bar-ends for both -because I already had them. I soon found that cross requires shifting often while riding over bumpy stuff where taking my hands off the bars was a Bad Idea, so I did put a brifter on to control the rear shifts. OTOH, I almost never shift the front during cross, and the brake lever is a bit more comfy for me. That bike is also my main commute to work bike, so I've ridden it a ton on the road, and it works well there. Doesn't visually match. So sue me.

[flux]

"Brifter
A combination brake/shift lever, such as a Campagnolo Ergo or Shimano S.T.I. unit. This term was coined by Bruce Frech."

-- http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_bo-z.html

"Rise above"? I'd rather honor Sheldon, thanks.

You mean honor Bruce Frech. Did he know Tulio Campagnolo?

At the end of the day none of this matters, It is just one of those catch phrases that annoys me. To each his own.

[Ray]

That's what I have on my cross bike. I started racing cross with bar-ends for both -because I already had them. I soon found that cross requires shifting often while riding over bumpy stuff where taking my hands off the bars was a Bad Idea, so I did put a brifter on to control the rear shifts. OTOH, I almost never shift the front during cross, and the brake lever is a bit more comfy for me. That bike is also my main commute to work bike, so I've ridden it a ton on the road, and it works well there. Doesn't visually match. So sue me.
Lance used this setup for at least some of his Tour wins - all maybe?. I think it was a weight thing for him, but one of the advantages of barcons or downtubes is getting friction in the front. Particularly useful with triples.

-Ray

[michael white]

Lance used this setup for at least some of his Tour wins - all maybe?. I think it was a weight thing for him, but one of the advantages of barcons or downtubes is getting friction in the front. Particularly useful with triples.

-Ray

it was the climbing stages. and it makes sense, if you're tired, have a lot of braking to do and don't want to worry about trim etc.

[swoop]

i'm with flux.. the words brifter and sloper make my skin crawl. i just see undifferentiated fat guys when i hear or read them.

its just not sexy.

[Wiley J]

Non sexy fat guys...you just described about half of us. :)

[Ray]

i'm with flux.. the words brifter and sloper make my skin crawl. i just see undifferentiated fat guys when i hear or read them.

its just not sexy.
What do you see when I say "mirror"?

[Big Daddy]

What do you see when I say "mirror"?


dive into traffic

[MarleyMon]

You get some very nice-feeling brake levers in exchange, too. Personally, I (a bar end shifter user exclusively) really dislike the feel of brifters and love the feel of the Shimano aero brake lever.
This is timely, as I'm considering going w/ bar ends and brake levers on a new build.
Can anyone comment on the difference between the Shimano BL400 & BL600 levers?
Is one more comfortable? functional? durable?
Thanks

[Peter P.]

Cut an inch off the ends of your handlebars before installing the bar ends.

Jenn

I've got STI on one bike and barcons on another bike. I much prefer the barcons. The STI levers are very fussy about shifts; if I don't deliberately make sure to get a solid CLICK out of the lever when I move it it won't shift. I'm sure it's adjusted right and nothing is bent. My barcons aren't fussy.

With barcons, I like the fact that lever position is a good indicator of what gear I'm in. They have a nice feel and a solid click, and multiple gear shifts in the rear are easy. Not so while riding in the drops with STI; then it's a lot of single gear shifts/multiple wrist flicks.

My barcons have a friction option should the indexing fail, but I've never seen indexed shifting fail on a barcon. Wish I could say the same for STI.

With so many cogs in the back now, it's just a pain to keep taking a hand off the bars to shift, so something nearer the bars just makes sense. I prefer my barcons such that, in the back of my mind, I'm considering tossing the STI on my road racing bike and going barcon there, as well.

I quoted thejen12 above because I cut my bars down when I installed barcons, but not for shifting issues. I think barcons make the drops look too long so for aesthetic reasons I try to cut off an amount equal to the length of the shifter pod. That still leaves plenty of length for grip in the drops.

[palincss]

This is timely, as I'm considering going w/ bar ends and brake levers on a new build.
Can anyone comment on the difference between the Shimano BL400 & BL600 levers?
Is one more comfortable? functional? durable?
Thanks

As far as I know, the only difference is the color of the little plastic thing just around the lever.

[dbrk]

I was riding a bike with Ergo the other day --- a really nice bike, in fact, the blue Weigle--- and I kept reaching down to shift. Oh well, I suppose I really do prefer downtube shifters. I keep a few in Ergo/STI but I find no advantage or safety differences--- but I do find them inelegant and I don't like the way they remind me of an automatic transmission. Lots of people at this point have never shifted on the down tube, let alone friction. To each his or her own.

dbrk

[flux]

but I do find them inelegant and I don't like the way they remind me of an automatic transmission.

dbrk

Interesting perspective.

[DHallerman]

Oh, come on.

Don't most of the folks on this list have more than one bike?

For me, part of the pleasure in my multi-bike personality is having different set-ups. So I like Campy Ergo, Shimano bar-end shifters, and -- to a lesser extent -- downtube shifters.

All the above, not either/or.

Dave, who finds Ergo much help in group rides among automobiles for greater control

[AgilisMerlin]

just a reminder:

we will all be waxing eloquently about ergo,sti,doubletap - once all the manufacturers bastardize us with electronic shifting..........


electronic shifting for the true mindlesS............................. :banana:

[dbrk]

just a reminder: we will all be waxing eloquently about ergo,sti,doubletap - once all the manufacturers bastardize us with electronic shifting...snip...

I've been stashing down tube shifters for the past year, particularly 9spd and 10spd indexers. I'm market proof now on all fronts but I do believe it's only a matter of time before Shimano stops making them too. I'm not eager to try much new stuff but a modern race bike with modern bits is just fine with me.
Even ol'friction drawers me has one.

Oh, and anyone who thinks they need to keep their hands on the bar to be safe in a group or just to be safe, please ride somewhere not near me.

dbrk

[flux]

Oh, and anyone who thinks they need to keep their hands on the bar to be safe in a group or just to be safe, please ride somewhere not near me.

dbrk

dbrkpedia 82.1 :)

[AgilisMerlin]

maybe i should start a thread about the true stupidity of electronic shifting........my heart rate is up........i am pacing the floor..........and i will never ever, farkin' ever buy a SOLDERING iron kit................

fark.............................................. ........................................me

[TMB]

Oh, and anyone who thinks they need to keep their hands on the bar to be safe in a group or just to be safe, please ride somewhere not near me.

dbrk


Amen.

PS - I've been stashing dt shifters as well.

I can see the day that I start "retrograding" coming fairly soon.

[rustychisel]

Man, the grumpies are out today. Can we discuss something non-confrontational, like Presidential elections?

[Blue Jays]

Classic downtube friction shifters are also easier to manipulate when one is wearing thick lobster claws or mittens in the winter.
There have been times I've contemplated using NOS downtube shifters on a fendered "winter racebike" that I'll be building in the coming months.

[bigman]

Nothing I have ever shifted worked as flawlessly as my Dura Ace 8spd with downtube shifters, precise and quick shifting with authority.

Still I swicthed to brifters because of the amount of traffic where I live - they are just safer.

[keevon]

My $.02, even though this issue will never be resolved:

- Love DT shifting, but agree with 'fast bumpy descent' argument. I went brifter (sounds better than 'shaker') cuz I wanted Campy.

- Don't love bar-end shifting. Something about pushing and pulling on the ends of my bars made me fear a violent crash.

- Agree that riding DT shifters is like a 'funny singlespeed'. I just shifted less and varied cadence more (spinning and mashing).

- Wish Campy made 10 speed DT shifters. Maybe some 10 speed bar-ends could be modified to DT? Works with Shimano...

[Andreas]

[snip]

- Don't love bar-end shifting. Something about pushing and pulling on the ends of my bars made me fear a violent crash.

[snip]

- Wish Campy made 10 speed DT shifters. Maybe some 10 speed bar-ends could be modified to DT? Works with Shimano...

On Campy 10 DT: link (http://www.branfordbike.com/brake/brk03.html)

Violent crash with barcons?
Some tips how to practice:
Ride nohands on your rollers, reach down to your barcon, remain nohands except for the shift. Repeat.
You will be fine.

If you are worried about violent crashes with your hands on the bars shifting barcons, please do not ride a road near me...

[palincss]

- Don't love bar-end shifting. Something about pushing and pulling on the ends of my bars made me fear a violent crash.




I use bar-end shifters exclusively. With indexed bar ends I mostly downshift with my pinkie, upshift often with the heel of my hand. I never "push" or "pull" on the ends of the bars, and I can't imagine how one would go about trying to shift with such motions.

[nowheels]

Will not use brifters anymore, either downtube or barcons. It's never been abou the money, I just do not need to have everthing at my fingertips.

[nowheels]

This is timely, as I'm considering going w/ bar ends and brake levers on a new build.
Can anyone comment on the difference between the Shimano BL400 & BL600 levers?
Is one more comfortable? functional? durable?
Thanks
I have both sets..... cannot tell the difference in braking action at all

[keevon]

I use bar-end shifters exclusively. With indexed bar ends I mostly downshift with my pinkie, upshift often with the heel of my hand. I never "push" or "pull" on the ends of the bars, and I can't imagine how one would go about trying to shift with such motions.

I've only ever ridden them twice, so obviously I never got the technique down. My fears are unfounded.

[rpm]

So it would seem that barcons make the most sense if you have shallow drop bars, don't ride out of the saddle a lot, and seldom race (you don't want your neighbor "helping you out" with your shifting). Since that pretty much describes my riding, I'll think I'll put away a couple of sets for when I go over the edge and become a full-on retrogrouch.

[saab2000]

Here's a bad picture of the friction shifters on my CSI. If Ergo went away tomorrow I could live with it. But it's not. To say I would prefer friction is probably not true either. I guess I miss the days when everyone just used these and the playing field was level. But I won't deny that I like shifting while standing on a hill. Does it get me to the top really faster? Probably not, but it seems like there is a small amount of time saved because no let up needs to occur to sit down.

Anyway, I still ride my friction shifters regularly on the CSI and my Grandis. They get it done. I have one foot in the past and one in the present. Sort of.