i love greg lemond.

[swoop]

he rode like a poet (like a rilke poem). all of my instincts go towards wanting to protect him.
when someone is sexually abused oftentimes their emotional development partially stops at that age. it happens with loss too. i know a man trapped in the emotional longings of a 16 year old for not being able to grieve losing his mother at that age. i see it unfold all the time in my office.
and i often get the feeling from him that there is a 14 year-old passionate kid flooded with feelings and the desire for a moral world at work in that psyche of his. there's an impulsiveness and a kind of naivety about the adult world folded into the skin of a good man. you can't really undo that kind of arrest in development for the depth of the scar tissue that has to be cut apart and the pain that it masks.

i have a fondness for people that have internal conflict. but i also love the man, the adult in him, for showing me that riding a bike is an expression of the passions. its because of him that this thing has become the wellspring for so much happiness and dancing with suffering in my life.

when he rode, especially pre gun injury days... he was the stuff of gods. i haven't seen anything come through the peleton like him since. for me, this trek conflict is meaningless bs. its a 14 year old dealing with an adult world where people don't mean what they say and where fairness is secondary to the perception of fairness, and in a situation when we are all driven by ulterior motives. its no place for a kid.

for all the psychobabble i'm laying down here.... i haven't seen an athlete of his caliber since. i can't wait for one to emerge.

[stevep]

the hinault/ lemond battles were as good as it gets.
mano a mano.

havent seen anything like it as long as i've been watching this.

[Fixed]

bro he made riding on the back of the saddle in
I thought he was cool the way he rode and the way he looked riding
imho
cheers

[Z3c]

Amen brother Swoop!

Scott

[David Kirk]

he rode like a poet (like a rilke poem). all of my instincts go towards wanting to protect him.
when someone is sexually abused oftentimes their emotional development partially stops at that age. it happens with loss too. i know a man trapped in the emotional longings of a 16 year old for not being able to grieve losing his mother at that age. i see it unfold all the time in my office.
and i often get the feeling from him that there is a 14 year-old passionate kid flooded with feelings and the desire for a moral world at work in that psyche of his. there's an impulsiveness and a kind of naivety about the adult world folded into the skin of a good man. you can't really undo that kind if arrest in development for the depth of the scar tissue that has to be cut apart and the pain that it masks.

i have a fondness for people that have internal conflict. but i also love the man, the adult in him, for showing me that riding a bike is an expression of the passions. its because of him that this thing has become the wellspring for so much happiness and dancing with suffering in my life.

when he rode, especially pre gun injury days... he was the stuff of gods. i haven't seen anything come through the peleton like him since. for me, this trek conflict is meaningless bs. its a 14 year old dealing with an adult world where people don't mean what they say and where fairness is secondary to the perception of fairness, and in a situation when we are all driven by ulterior motives. its no place for a kid.

for all the psychobabble i'm laying down here.... i haven't seen an athlete of his caliber since. i can't wait for one to emerge.

Exactly. Thank you.

dave

[roman meal]

outstanding.

[Bill Bove]

Well said.

[Buzz]

All of the Trek / Lemond posts have been quite interesting. I have never understood why there is a section of the cycling community that has such an adverse reaction to Lemond.

I do not see the purported "sore winner" or whining side of Lemond. What I see is a guy that literally rode in front and paved the way for everyone else in American cycling to follow. It takes great natural ability, strength and backbone to do that.

Sure Greg is protective of his business affairs. You know, no one ever gave anything to Lemond. He earned every pedal stroke of his career and the financial successes that followed. There was no guide book for American cyclists back then. He invented it and wrote it. You got the sense that he had to fight for everything. Everything he did he was criticized. Training, equipment, diet. Why? Because he was an American and was outspoken and didn't hew to the traditional Euro ways.

And yet, when the chips were down or the truth needed to be told, he stepped forward and delivered whether it was his time trial win in '89 or in discussing doping or his personal life.

It is sad that the original American wave of cycling: Lemond, Hampsten, Phinney and the rest of the 7-11 guys somehow morphed into the mess of Armstrong, Hamilton, Landis et al. Those guys, in my mind, are indistinguishable from any other euro pro of their day. They decided to take their vow of silence, adopt the euro peloton way of doing things and perhaps take them to new nefarious levels.

So, when I think of Lemond (and Andy Hampsten too and the 7-11 guys) I think about men who earned their victories and that they have great meaning. When I think of those who followed I see "manufactured" wins. That's why I too love Greg Lemond. A pure cyclist and racer.

[GregL]

Thank you for helping to put the recent events in perspective.

Regards,
Greg

[Elefantino]

I agree wholeheartedly.

Greg cares about the sport. He always has. And he's given us some of the most exciting moments ever.

http://a763.g.akamai.net/7/763/1644/1/app.infopia.com/img/image/fp/extra/1/VPID/3489395

[roman meal]

http://tinyurl.com/4udttn

[M.Sommers]

Recently there was a post which offered how 'manly' the Euro peleton can be, fueled with testosterone, egos and arrogance. I view professional male cyclists to be some of the largest primadonnas, perhaps just a notch below professional male figure skaters. As an athlete, I viewed any fellow athlete who was an aerobic-sport-participant as someone who might be 'touched'; someone tortured and driven to enjoy pain.

Riding a bike is great fun, professional cycling is a different deal. Professional cyclists don't often appear well educated and without college and mental growth, stuck in a physical phase driven by ego, bravado and immaturity. But manly? Ego and arrogance have nothing to do with manliness and moreover, an arrogant ego fueled by EPO and injections is quietly, but purely counterfeit.

For me, Greg LeMond was the first American cyclist I followed, admired and rooted for; Andy and 7-11 were great, but LeMond was breaking new ground in France and he seemed very real. He appeared to be a genuine piece of sod and his passion for hunting, family, innovation of the bike and things outside of two wheels were venerated by his fans and foes alike.

LeMond seemed paranoid at times, but unfeigned and always direct. Now all of his issues, the chips on his shoulder are exposed for all to see; we can now understand the anguish he endured as we continue to root for him.

I believed Greg LeMond when he said he never cheated on the bike and his perspectives of professional cycling should be held with the highest regards. It may have been impossible for a former MLB player to have spoken out, accused Mark McGuire or Sammy Sosa during their deceptive 1998 homerun chase, but how times have changed. It's not about the doper (Lance) it's not about the doctor (Ferrari) it's not even about the bike, but for LeMond, it's all about the sport. I will buy a LeMond bike again, whenever he signs a deal and I hope the frame will be as authentic as the man himself.

[bostondrunk]

+++
Has always been my fav. rider of all time.

[david]

very nice, swoop.

[majorpat]

Great post, swoop. He was the reason I got a "real" road bike in the summer of 1986 and headed out on the roads for hours at a time, thinking I was in the Pyrennees.
Say what you want about him, he was THE pioneer for the amateurs and all of the pros that came later from our fair shores owe him for that.
Everyone needs to get over the Armstrong angle, he's working a business, LeMond is speaking from the gut.
Pat

[goldyjackson]

Thanks for sharing these feelings. I was lucky enough to watch Greg L ride by in 1989 in Paris on the day of the time trial. We then got back in a car and listened to the announcers freak out at the time checks. I can still remember how exciting it was...

I guess people see in him what they want to see. Like everything else. I just don't get the negative feelings for him either. I've always just looked up to him, and I see honesty when other people see jealousy.

Viva Greg!

[Avispa]

Exactly. Thank you.

dave

+2.... Thanks Swoop!

..A..

[giordana93]

and appropriate this weekend: Lemond rode as a team mate for his guys in Paris-Roubaix. ever see Lance pull for George to pay him back for his pulls come July? never. Greg outsprinted Kelly at Worlds, out time-trialed and out-climbed lots of specialists. 'nuff said

[rpm]

Swoop--

That wasn't psychobabble in your post; that was professional insight, and very good insight at that. I've listened to Greg talk a couple of times and he showed all the sides that you identified.

I have a friend who was sexually abused as a child. Even in his late 60's, he's still dealing with what happened to him.

Greg's time trial into Paris remains for me the single most thrilling moment I've seen in cycling.

I wish him all the best, and I hope he gets enough peace and justice to put his demons to rest.

[Steve Hampsten]

I remember when I first heard of Greg LeMond: it was the selection races to determine the Junior National Team for the World Championships. Of a six race series, Greg won five of the races. He was too young to make the team that year but he was a shoe-in for the next two years.

He cleaned up at World's, needless to say.

[LegendRider]

I've noticed that those who were involved in the sport (rider, pro cycling fan, amateur racer) during the LeMond era tend to be sympathetic to him. Those who got into the sport during the Armstrong era tend to be more sympathetic to him and see LeMond as whiner, etc. It's generalization, of course, but, I think largely true.

Full disclosure: I'm a huge LeMond fan.

[jmewkill]

I like Greg - he showed what could be done when there was no home based support.

I may not take as gospel everything he says, but the times I've heard him speak, I've admired his courage of conviction.

Trek and Tailwind sports have made masterful use of the media over the years and I fear we will never know the all the truths.

[Big Dan]

Good stuff, go Greg.

:)

[wtex]

When I was 14, I just happened to turn on NBC when they were doing their weekend coverage of the Tour, and it was right as they showed Guimard roll up and tell Greg to sit up because Hinault had broken.

Needless to say, I was in.

I rooted for Lance, too, but sheesh, Lemond had to fight his own team to win. That's HardeningTFU bigtime.

[GoJavs]

I came late to the sport. First race I ever saw on TV was the 1992 Tour Dupont on TV. LeMond won that one and I fell in love with the sport. Without LeMond I would have never picked up a bike.

Lance was just a snotty kid riding around on a skittles jersey at the time.

[Fixed]

a. Greg outsprinted Kelly at Worlds, out time-trialed and out-climbed lots of specialists. 'nuff said
i remeber him saying if he sprinted with kelly he'd lose something like 7 out of 10 times but he never would give up he was a hard man . a real all rounder that could sprint climb and t.t. ..
cheers imho

[cdimattio]

I've noticed that those who were involved in the sport (rider, pro cycling fan, amateur racer) during the LeMond era tend to be sympathetic to him. Those who got into the sport during the Armstrong era tend to be more sympathetic to him and see LeMond as whiner, etc. It's generalization, of course, but, I think largely true.

Full disclosure: I'm a huge LeMond fan.

I agree that many of Lemond's critics were not cyclists during his reign. Those that started riding during the Lance era would have difficulty appreciating LeMonds groundbreaking accomplishments.

Most of this stuff gets lost in opinions related to public comments on doping and the inevitable 'I like Greg' 'I hate Greg' debate camps.

We can analze his judgement and speculate on his motivations and emotional flaws, but there is alot to love about this guy.

In the day, LeMond was a cycling inspiration. Before LeMond, Americans had difficulty just finishing European races. His breadth of cycling skills was both legendary and incredible to see. What was just as important as the tools was his emotion and obvious love of cycling. Nothing was mechanical. It was obvious that he rode with his heart and embraced the sport. You cannot fake the exuberance, grins and sheer joy evident in many of his victories.

LeMond embraced the traditions but was an innovator in areas as diverse as aerodynamics to cyclist compensation. The boyish optimistic LeMond had panache, style and a bright smile

For me he has proven his mettle and grace many times, including his decision to become was one of the first notable professional cyclists to openly discuss the sport's extensive and troubled relationship with performance-enhancing substances.

Despite our likes, dislikes, and personal perceptions I am confident that history will shine very favorably on his legacy.

[Fat Robert]

i heart greg lemond because i identify with the guy. i relate. armstrong? i don't relate....

lemond will always be the soul of cycling for me -- the last 18mos doesn't change that...rather, it enriches it.

[saab2000]

I am very, very proud to say that I raced on the same course in Altenrhein Switzerland where he first became world champ, in front of two future world champs. Class. Definitely a hero. A diamond in the rough who couldn't help but being polished. He didn't even need to be polished, that's how brightly he shown. Seen him race a couple of times. Best position on a road bike of anyone ever.

[jerk]

greg's a good man, not a zealot at all, but just wants to protect his sport and the kids sacrificing the best years of their lives trying to make a go of it. anything worth trading your late adolescence for should be worth it. greg is right on. for every stevep in this world there's three douchebags in the millionaires club or at the springs with dollar signs in their eyes.

its got nothing to do with childhood sexual abuse, shiite happens and greg is no le grounded or trapped in the past because of any demons he may have. nonetheless, greg honestly hates bullies, thugs and people who lack empathy.

oh, by the way he's correct about everything he's said too.

its to bad that trek haf to do what they did. but i have no fear that greg will make out ok.

[KJMUNC]

Being a kid growing up in the 80's he was my first cycling idol too. GL was the reason I saved my allowance and lawn mowing money for a year to buy a "real road bike". When I was 10 I had a NatGeo map of France on my wall and I followed the Tour with a highlighter and push-pins to track their progress, and a few years later I remember watching him stick it to The Professor and thinking that finish was probably the best race I'd ever live to see. The next day I left our house in Oklahoma and rode 40mi to a friend's house pretending the entire way that I was racing against Fignon without actually thinking how crazy it was that a 13yr old was out for an 80mi training ride. When he retired I completely lost interest and just couldn't bring myself to get excited during the cycling of the mid-90's, and didn't follow racing again for almost a decade.

He instilled a passion within me for the sport that will never go away despite all the lawsuits, lawyers, and finger pointing. If for nothing else, I will always have a place for GL for that reason.

[swoop]

.

[Ray]

I've noticed that those who were involved in the sport (rider, pro cycling fan, amateur racer) during the LeMond era tend to be sympathetic to him. Those who got into the sport during the Armstrong era tend to be more sympathetic to him and see LeMond as whiner, etc. It's generalization, of course, but, I think largely true.
I'm sure you're probably right in general, but I'll be the exception. I started riding in '96, saw Armstrong from cancer through his Tour wins, and I'm a Lemond fan and not an Armstrong fan (I pulled for him at the time, but I've learned my lesson, sort of like with Bill Clinton?). I'm about Greg's age though (actually a couple years older), so maybe that has something to do with it. Sometimes character, even if flawed, shines through.

-Ray

[97CSI]

Sometimes character, even if flawed, shines through. -RayYou could not be more correct. In GL's case, especially the flawed portion.

[Big Dan]

You could not be more correct. In GL's case, especially the flawed portion.

You can't buy class.

[moondog-sparky]

i had the pleasure to meet both greg and frankie andreu in the fall of '06 (san antonio), as well as have the chance to do a short ride with both of them. greg was invited down as the motivational speaker for a professional conference - all set up through his neighbor in montana, i believe. there were about 30 of us who were invited that sunday morning, cyclists of all levels, and it was a singularly spectacular moment in my life.

to be truthful, i had always admired greg and his wins, but was never enamored with him - i went for the chance to get the xtra miles and rub shoulders with an old pro. plain and simple. no sycophantic adoration from me.

greg worked his way through the group recognizing every single person and the smile on his face was genuine and warm. as the ride progressed it was inevitable the stronger riders would move to the front, and of course, greg rolled with that group. a rabbit went up the road and the small group (5-6 riders surged, with greg in the thick of it. next thing you know we're flying flat out over a series of small rollers, a convertible in front of us taking pictures, and everyone is chasing gregs wheel, eager for the chance to tangle with a true champ. and he mixes it up! he gives zero quarter - one or two guys get by and then he surges again, then the next guy braves it out, and he goes again. this happens over the course of a couple of miles until finally there's just greg and one other guy and they battle it out for some imaginary sprint point, greg grinning from ear to ear and the dude with him in disbelief that he's sprinting with a legend and getting his picture taken at the same time. i don't know who really took the win, but what i saw was an ex-pro who may have a few xtra lbs racing as if he was 15 again, and giving his riding partners the thrill of a lifetime. and enjoying that tussle as if it was for the world champ stripes!

greg could've shown up that day as the typical distant-and-smug-retired-pro. but he didn't. he was an extremely likable guy who just loves riding his bike and sharing that with others. i have never understood the whining thing that people label him with - i never saw it. granted, we spent all of 3 hrs together that morning and we're not lifelong friends, but i suspect what i saw of greg that morning his him 24/7 in real life: honest, open, caring, and most of all legit. it's safe to say i'm now an ardent admirer of the guy, probably as much for his post-racing personality as for all his tdf wins.

there was inevitably the small talk of doping in the peloton past and present, but i won't go into that here. suffice it to say, that i am more convinced than ever that large-scale doping has occurred and that it's more easy to do and not get caught (esp in the mid-late 90's into the new century) than any of us could ever imagine.

i don't think any of his outspoken statements vs lance and others are sour grapes. not in the least. he loves the sport and is tired of guys gaming the system just because they have the cash and lawyers. imho, there is zero chance lance didn't dope during his days, and johan and boo-koo others knew about this and were all part of the internal mafia to keep it going and keep others silent. i also suspect that's why the ASO booted astana this year, but that's another thread...

keep in mind this was shortly after frankie got the shaft for having his wife testify in the lance/insurance case, and you could see he was a bit shaken by this and fairly quiet. he spent most of the morning with the so-called slower group and was every bit as gracious as greg. he and i exchanged a few words and it appeared to me that he was a genuine guy who wanted to get the truth out about things but had come face to face with a sledgehammer called REALITY. money, power, and influence will often win out over truth, and you could see frankie had had enough of the powers that be using him as a pawn. but he still rode his bike all the time and still smiled hugely when talking about his past days as a pro. another damn likable guy who got caught up in the lance propeller.

[vaxn8r]

moondog, that was exactly the experience my buddy had riding with Greg. He took the time to show him a thing or two about his pedal stroke and chatted with my buddy for about 15 minutes. He never forgot it. Neither did I, and I wasn't there. This was back in the 80's.

At the NAHMBS in February LA was there with his posse. Another friend of mine wanted a photo real bad. He got it but got a big dose of sarcasm and feeling that he was a big annoynace. So did I. We got the photo, it took about 5 seconds, but I walked away feeling like LA had tried to put us in our place. He's a bitter man who's clinging to an carefully protected, manufactured image. He'll sue or debase anyone who he percieves threatens that image.

I started racing in 1984 because of a number of factors but GL was one of them, a shining star. Nobody believed any American could do the things he was doing. Third place in the TdF! Unbelieveable! The following year 2nd place. I started riding harder. He was inspirational.

I'll say it again, doping in the 70's-80's was pretty pedestrian. Not a lot of good choices, blunt instruments for which it was tough to get a real advantage. Thus, I believe it possible one could NOT dope and still be competitive. That changed with EPO, GH, water soluble steroids, all of which were very expensive and undetectable when they arrived on the scene in the early 90's. The 90's ushered in an environment where money and medical manipulation helped you win. If you had access to the right docs and were willing to pay, you could play. Basically the field was unleveled if you didn't dope.

Some may not like the message but these are medical facts. Is it ruining the sport to call it out? If so the sport is dead to me anyway. Genetic manipulation is around the corner. Enjoy what money buys because it's only going to widen the gap between the haves and have nots.

I'm just going to ride my bike. Thanks for everything GL, you are still the greatest to me. XXX OOO

[djg]

i had the pleasure to meet both greg and frankie andreu in the fall of '06 (san antonio), as well as have the chance to do a short ride with both of them. greg was invited down as the motivational speaker for a professional conference - all set up through his neighbor in montana, i believe. there were about 30 of us who were invited that sunday morning, cyclists of all levels, and it was a singularly spectacular moment in my life.

to be truthful, i had always admired greg and his wins, but was never enamored with him - i went for the chance to get the xtra miles and rub shoulders with an old pro. plain and simple. no sycophantic adoration from me.

greg worked his way through the group recognizing every single person and the smile on his face was genuine and warm. as the ride progressed it was inevitable the stronger riders would move to the front, and of course, greg rolled with that group. a rabbit went up the road and the small group (5-6 riders surged, with greg in the thick of it. next thing you know we're flying flat out over a series of small rollers, a convertible in front of us taking pictures, and everyone is chasing gregs wheel, eager for the chance to tangle with a true champ. and he mixes it up! he gives zero quarter - one or two guys get by and then he surges again, then the next guy braves it out, and he goes again. this happens over the course of a couple of miles until finally there's just greg and one other guy and they battle it out for some imaginary sprint point, greg grinning from ear to ear and the dude with him in disbelief that he's sprinting with a legend and getting his picture taken at the same time. i don't know who really took the win, but what i saw was an ex-pro who may have a few xtra lbs racing as if he was 15 again, and giving his riding partners the thrill of a lifetime. and enjoying that tussle as if it was for the world champ stripes!

greg could've shown up that day as the typical distant-and-smug-retired-pro. but he didn't. he was an extremely likable guy who just loves riding his bike and sharing that with others. i have never understood the whining thing that people label him with - i never saw it. granted, we spent all of 3 hrs together that morning and we're not lifelong friends, but i suspect what i saw of greg that morning his him 24/7 in real life: honest, open, caring, and most of all legit. it's safe to say i'm now an ardent admirer of the guy, probably as much for his post-racing personality as for all his tdf wins.

there was inevitably the small talk of doping in the peloton past and present, but i won't go into that here. suffice it to say, that i am more convinced than ever that large-scale doping has occurred and that it's more easy to do and not get caught (esp in the mid-late 90's into the new century) than any of us could ever imagine.

i don't think any of his outspoken statements vs lance and others are sour grapes. not in the least. he loves the sport and is tired of guys gaming the system just because they have the cash and lawyers. imho, there is zero chance lance didn't dope during his days, and johan and boo-koo others knew about this and were all part of the internal mafia to keep it going and keep others silent. i also suspect that's why the ASO booted astana this year, but that's another thread...

keep in mind this was shortly after frankie got the shaft for having his wife testify in the lance/insurance case, and you could see he was a bit shaken by this and fairly quiet. he spent most of the morning with the so-called slower group and was every bit as gracious as greg. he and i exchanged a few words and it appeared to me that he was a genuine guy who wanted to get the truth out about things but had come face to face with a sledgehammer called REALITY. money, power, and influence will often win out over truth, and you could see frankie had had enough of the powers that be using him as a pawn. but he still rode his bike all the time and still smiled hugely when talking about his past days as a pro. another damn likable guy who got caught up in the lance propeller.

It's just me and the legend now, and we're sprinting flat out as if the World's were on the line, and we are pushing EACH OTHER, and no thank you I do not wish to break my concentration to notice that Greg is spinning a 39/19 and not really breathing that hard. Priceless. Wish it had been me, really.

I don't think anybody watching in the day missed the fact that there was a special talent or that he rode with heart -- that there were some real and beautiful moments of racing, of the things we look for in racing at its best.

I think I get the business in swoop's post about the beauty of the efforts -- I hope I do -- but I don't know much about riding psyche's little pony into the hearts or souls of strangers, or folks met a couple of times and how they seemed to me or how I wanted them to be. I betcha GL will be fine, even if business sorts itself out as business tends to do.

[catulle]

greg's a good man, not a zealot at all, but just wants to protect his sport and the kids sacrificing the best years of their lives trying to make a go of it. anything worth trading your late adolescence for should be worth it. greg is right on. for every stevep in this world there's three douchebags in the millionaires club or at the springs with dollar signs in their eyes.

its got nothing to do with childhood sexual abuse, shiite happens and greg is no le grounded or trapped in the past because of any demons he may have. nonetheless, greg honestly hates bullies, thugs and people who lack empathy.

oh, by the way he's correct about everything he's said too.

its to bad that trek haf to do what they did. but i have no fear that greg will make out ok.
__________________

Ditto. My same feeling.

[swoop]

i'm not sure that the phrase "flawed person" has any meaning because we're all afflicted. except stevep, who farts rose pedals and rainbows.

[csm]

I never met Greg but he seems to be ok. I never met Lance either but I think he's ok. Interstingly, Lemond is involved in a second lawsuit. He is part of an action against the Yellowstone Club. the founders are going through a divorce and apparently it is getting ugly.

http://www.comcast.net/news/articles/general/2008/04/13/Billionaire_s.Club/

maybe he gets some kinda of lawsuit quantity discount?