I'm getting old...

[bulliedawg]

I had to add a 5mm spacer to my headset because of shoulder and neck pain. The result of age, I'm afraid.

Wondering what others do to deal with neck and shoulder pain. I know, I know -- get fitted again. But I'm trying to avoid the time and expense.

Also, I'd like to commiserate with any others who feel like age is taking its toll on their riding position, or riding in general, and what changes they've had to make.

[zap]

Work on upper body/neck/core strength. In this regard, to change is too admit defeat.

[bostondrunk]

thought about going to a physiotherapist/chiropractor/massage therapist for some therapy and exercises to help loosen up and strengthen? :beer:

[va rider]

how old are you?

[Bruce K]

bullie;

Once again the drunk has had an epiphany of sorts and it's not a pink pachyderm either. :p

I try to see a massage therapist every couple of weeks if possible. She has been able to loosen up my neck, shoulders, and hips when they start to feel tight or out of sorts.

Before major riding events we do a fair amount of stretching as well. It really seems to help.

Give it a try before you do anything radical.

Besides, I believe it was Muhammed Ali who said: "Age is a case of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it don't matter!"

BK

[Smiley]

Bullie , just go UP with the bars and stop worrying , dbrk calls it sizing up , call it what you want but a 5 mm spacer is cheaper than a massage ( what kinda of massage is that anyway )

[bostondrunk]

Bullie , just go UP with the bars and stop worrying , dbrk calls it sizing up , call it what you want but a 5 mm spacer is cheaper than a massage ( what kinda of massage is that anyway )

I'm gonna have to say that I think that is bad advice, or at least a bad way of thinking. If one of your legs feels stiff, do you just go ahead and add a spacer under the cleat because it is the easiest/cheapest solution?
If you like the position you had before, then try to fix your body first. Besides, a 'fitting' is hit and miss anyway. Tell the guy you have a sore neck, sure, he'll sell you the newest rise stem and funky ergonomic handlebars... :confused: :butt:

[bulliedawg]

how old are you?

37.

I think I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and get fitted. Do they touch you a lot when they fit you? I hate having strangers touch me. It freaks me out. Massage is out of the question.

[bostondrunk]

You hate having a nice looking lady massage you?!?! lol
Well, thats too bad, because you are probably looking at the wrong solution (getting 'fitted').
How about I save you $100 bucks, and just say that if that is the only option, then yeah, skip the fitting and just raise your bars.. :crap:

[Kevin]

Bulliedawg,

Come to NYC and take a ride on the subway. You will get over your fear of being touched by strangers.

Kevin

[bostondrunk]

You do realize that massage therapists are trained to give massage to people who are fully clothed, right? And it sounds as though they would only be working on your upper back and neck. Tellin ya, ya don't know what yer missin! Oh, and it helps if your health insurance covers it!!

[kestrel]

......Besides, I believe it was Muhammed Ali who said: "Age is a case of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it don't matter!"
BK

You were making good sense till you quoted that draft-dodging, no brains, punching bag.

Bullie: 37 getting old, don't make me laugh. I've got you by 21 hard earned years and I ain't been fitted yet. Although the massages are great!!!! It's been said before, but the last 10 years, stretching for 10 minutes or more before rides has done me the most good. I also stretch after the ride. Well worth a try for tired old parts that resist movement.
:D

[Ken Robb]

the newly acquired Waterford had the bars a lot lower than I prefer and I had neck/shoulder pain after 15 miles. I've swapped stems and it still not as high as my other bikes but I'm going to try it. My glasses are pretty strong which requires me to tilt my head back farther to see through the center of the lens. The perimeter of the lens gives very distorted vision. I would not need such high bars were my eyes better. After my painful 15 miles I did a very comfy 5 miles on my Rambouillet with bars=saddle. I think the stretching/masage advice is good too but when I ride a bike with bars below saddle height my head- neck has to be "against the stop" for me to see more than 15 feet ahead of the bike. I have an old friend who is now quadraplegic because he rode into a parked motorhome while resting his neck from his agressive position. It sounds ridiculous I know but he was riding laps around Fiesta Island in San Diego and the Mo-Ho wasn't there on his previous lap. I had to remember him Saturday when my neck was hurting and I was dropping my head for a break.

[Dekonick]

Get a hot tub. Really nice post ride to stretch out.

I also raised my bars at Smiley's suggestion. It made my ride yesterday feel different for certain! I was comfortable (always was) but now my shoulders arent tight post ride. Perhaps you should invest in a good fitting - just be careful on who you let fit you. :banana: And no - they dont touch you much, just your knees.

Hey Jerk! My stem is now too short! Went from a 12 to 10. I must say I prefered how the 12 handled, but the 10 is mucho moro comfortableo

[M_A_Martin]

Bullie Bullie Bullie...

Getting fit is no worse than getting measured for clothes.

On top of that:

Strengthen your core.
www.coreperformance.com. Buy the book, do the workout. It really helps having a strong core to start with.

Then, on top of that, strengthen up the muscles that hold your shoulderblades (Rhomboids?...yeah, I think that's them...spelling is off, but I had a glass of wine with dinner...) Most people just concentrate on the biceps, delts, pecs, you need to strengthen ALL those little shoulder muscles that take care of stabilization.

A person who stops doing something because it bothers them regardless of age without taking action, eases themselves out of living the life that they lived before. They become timid and insecure. I'm not saying that you will, but what will you do when the higher bar position becomes uncomfortable? Work on your body, if you can't figure out the issue yourself, get a physical therapist or trainer to help you.

[dbrk]

Bullie , just go UP with the bars and stop worrying , dbrk calls it sizing up , call it what you want but a 5 mm spacer is cheaper than a massage ( what kinda of massage is that anyway )

Sizing up is not about raising the bars with spacers or riser stems, it's about designing larger frames that fit so that the bars are naturally higher. If you look at the sizing methods used by the great French audax builders (Herse, Singer, Routens, etc.) and sizing specs that Grant Petersen has offered for years now, you see the elements of "sizing up." Anyone who thinks that this is some goofy idea just about raising bars and about pushing shopping baskets really needs an education in the history of bicycles and fit, but perhaps someone more like Mike Barry, Grant Petersen, or Daniel Rebour should give it to you. Check that: Daniel Rebour's been gone for twenty years or so. (I hope to ride with him on the road beyond (none too soon).) Anyway, "sizing up" involves bicycle re-design from racer positions that don't suit most recreational riders who are not out there to "go fast." There are dozens of elements involved: pedal and knee positions, relaxed seat angles, frame size, head tube length, etc.

If you look at my bikes you'll see larger frames, a "fist full" of seat post, and a bar/saddle drop that is modest, usually less than five centimeters. This is the result of a whole slew of design changes. You don't have to build bikes that look like audax bikes to design along these principles (look at my IF or Hampsten SBTi, e.g.), but you do need to more than just raise the bars. We've been over this a million times here and there is no need to go on again but to say that it's not like what I espouse is a new idea, it is just not an idea well-understood in America (apparently) and a feature of bicycle design that has never been given much thought or application outside of the ranks of the older audax/randonneur traditions (particularly the French).

dbrk

[bags27]

Last summer I developed neck pain and put a spacer put on. Used it for a couple of weeks until the pain cleared up and then took it off. Sometimes you just need to accomodate in order to keep riding. Exercise is the best medicine for most pain and whatever works in helping me get it is okay with me.

[William]

I second MA's advice on core training. Also, as I posted before:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=3509

Myofascia Release! You can work the ball up into the shoulders and neck as well. I'll often use it before and after a ride. Amazing how much it loosens and relaxes my back & shoulders. Work on the body first. If it helps ease the tension your experienceing, great! If it doesn't, change your position, but your body is still going to better off for the added core training & release.

Body first my friend! :)

William

[OldDog]

Bullie,

Don't fall into the line of thought that you are getting old as you are far from it. All advise here is good, let me add, check other elements of your lifestyle.
Are you logging less miles due to other commitments? Less activity in general?
Change of jobs and/or work habits? Small changes in lifestyle affects your body, a little less riding or decrease general exercise may be cause for your body to react as it has. Stretch lots.

Raising your stem 5mm, (3/16") is really not drastic. Make sure you record all your positions before you start playing around so as to get back to your original position when/if needed. A pro fit is not a bad idea especialy if you have never had one or not had one in a long time. Find someone you can trust who knows what they are doing. Again record your current position before you go. Good luck.

[keno]

62 here and getting more comfortalbe lowering my position on the bike, including a track bike, for one principal reason - PILATES. While I agree with others who have mentioned it and provided references as being how to deal with your problem, I do not think that pilates is something that can be learned from a book or from tapes, and for a simple reason. One of the objectives of pilates is to have you locate and strengthen core muscles and use them regularly to support your body. Locating them and then forcing yourself to use them is a tricky process and requires, I believe, a trainer, at least for most of us. It is far more difficult than weight training, where using trainers is commonplace.

What I have found after a solid year of pilates, with a trainer, is that I can now support much of my upper body weight with core muscles rather than with or annoying shoulders and arms and neck muscles. Also, I am also able to control my back and abdomen muscles in order to avoid lower back pain as a result of the pilates.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

keno

[bulliedawg]

I had back pain on the bike, but not anymore. I started doing inversion therapy and upside-down situps, and my abdomen and back are much stronger as a result. Also, I've "quit" ice cream and eating between meals, and I've lost about five pounds. I was never a fat ***, but I had some "love" around the middle which is disappearing fast. I decided to change my eating habits to lose a few pounds so that I can become a better climber. The results on my cycling are quite astonishing. I can climb some hills in a much higher gear.

The problem is the back of my neck and shoulders. Intermittent pain. Sometimes I can ride for three hours with no problem. But usually the shoulders and back of neck start huring after two hours. I might just need to conscentrate on relaxing that area of my body.

I don't know. It's frustrating. It's holding me back.

[dbrk]

bulliepal, what you need is a good yoga teacher. The quality of instruction makes all the difference but neck and shoulder pain are a sure sign that you need to strengthen, lengthen, and align the bone and muscle of the lower back. Yoga may look like it has nothing to do with cycling but there are few things that complement as well. While massage and therapy can help, they don't actually answer the problem with a remedy (only a salve). If you want to engage the issue as well as feel better than I'd point you to a competent yoga teacher. Competence is as hard to find in yoga as smarts are in bicycle design, so choose wisely!

yerpal, dbrk

[Too Tall]

Bullie, I've had a massage practice for 12+ yrs. A knowledgeable elbow from your truly can do wonders to localize and smooth out neck and shoulder pain. Also, a good therapist will talk with you about what they are finding and correlate that with your activities suggesting remedies.

For instance...suppose you have *levator scapulae spasms k? Why? You didn't before? Are you exercising alot more? Getting inadequate recovery? Or (tops on my list) are you spending more time at a keyboard or working extensively with your hands at benchtop level?

See?

And for an additional $5 I'll smack you around some with an oil soaked 2X4. Kidddddding!

*PS - Levator Scapulae is a very common tight muscle attached to your scapula. Here is a picture: http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/LevatorScapulae.html

[Kevan]

don't worry... why just the other day I was helping Sans-mans with his bike's newly installed walker front-end, wrapping it in some funky Cinelli tape. :cool:

[M_A_Martin]

Bullie,
I have to say that an elbow in a spasaming muscle is the furthest from a "nice" massage as you can imagine. However, it does work. *And* usually both you and the therapist keep all your clothes on.

Good luck!

Mary Ann

[bulliedawg]

Gotta a lot of yoga folks and massage therapists in the this crazy college town, though I have no idea how to tell good ones from bad ones. Even asking for recommendations won't find me the best. It's like my wife says about large animal vets: There are a lot of really bad ones out there who are loved because of the relationships they develop with their clients. (Her nice way of saying they're bull$hitters.) Same goes for doctors. Same goes for yoga folks and massage therapists, I reckon.

As for bike fitters, there's a SEVEN dealer in town, but I might go to Atlanta for that, if that's the course I decide to take.

I really do appreciate all the great advice and concern.

[Andreu]

......Pilates.
It works for me.

[slowgoing]

When I get lazy, my back starts to curve and that makes it harder to keep my head up because of the angle of my neck. Result: strain on my neck. When I concentrate on keeping a straight back, my neck feels fine and it's easier to keep my head looking forward. Are you slouching a bit?

[spiderman]

with all the comments about caring for your body...
...muscle strengthening, stretching/flexibility, balance and core strength
are all components that can lead to pain-free riding.
my favorite cross-training workout for the rhomboids, etc...
is a 10 mile glide in my kayak.
i also have to really think about my posture
when i ride or paddle.
i'm better off when i start off my rides
positioning my pelvis slightly forward
with my spine straight.
the same is true when i paddle...
...when i slouch...
i have discomfort.
when i sit up staight,
i can paddle all day.

[OldDog]

Spiderman, a fellow paddler, surfaces on the board :banana:

A cruise on the lake or river in my yak is as pleasent as a pedal. I often find myself torn between a Sunday morning scoot on the bike :beer: or a glide at the lake :banana: . Heading to the MD eastern shore for a week this Friday (Ivan go away) to enjoy both activities.

[Dekonick]

Wow. I am really interested in learning to Kayak (not river, but sea kayak)

There is a nice reservoir near my house that is tailor made for it - Rocky Gorge. Ever kayak there? My parents also live on the Severn - but its more of a haul for me to go there.

How hard is it to learn?

:: interested ::

[spiderman]

learning how to ride a bike...
and then you can spend the rest of your life
developing your skills...
the similarities are striking...
spinning is a lot like the efficiency
of a kayak paddling stroke.
sea kayaking has really helped
the cardio/respiratory/upper body development
that seems to promote my cycling fitness.
i think the two (cycling and kayaking)
are meant for each other...
...my ideal saturday is a round trip
where i drive to a point ten to fifteen miles away,
paddle home, then bike back the long way
on a 25 to 50 mile loop to pick up my car again...
...anyone else interested in pedal/paddle-athalons??

[OldDog]

Dekonick - there are many paddle shops in the Baltimore area. Seek one out and become enlightend. Sea yaks are magical. Very easy to get involved and yes you can spend a liftime perfecting the craft. Take a few lessons, learn properly and paddle safely. Take care.

[vaxn8r]

My buddy just sized up by getting a sloping TT with longer HT raising his bars so he's perfectly comfortbale in the drops. Guess what, it hasn't changed his neck pain at all. But he does have a new "girly bike"!......just kidding.

Seriously, raising your bars may make your bike handle worse and may not solve your aches. I'd think about some exercises, something to strengthen your neck and upper back. 5mm spacer is no big deal, but if that doesn't work...are you going to keep going up? What then?