Can we start a mirror thread again?

[Cary Ford]

Because I got taken into traffic today by... yes... by a guy wearing a mirror who said he didn't see me coming up on him.

Come on, let's go. Mirror thread.

[Louis]

They're great. Doesn't everyone use one? It's just like a helmet - a useful piece of equipment that each responsible person who values his / her safety would naturally use.

How's that for a start? :)

[thinpin]

With technology moving on as it is I now use a helmet mounted radar system with a wireless connection to my garmin. The sweep can be a bit problematic on a windy day and there are still some issues positivly identifying whats comin at you!:D

[fiamme red]

http://www.londonskaters.com/cycling/images/P7010314.JPG

[saab2000]

They're great. Doesn't everyone use one? It's just like a helmet - a useful piece of equipment that each responsible person who values his / her safety would naturally use.

How's that for a start? :)

Hornet's nest is opening.........

Helmets don't prevent accidents. Mirrors might.

[avalonracing]

My partner and I have a US Patent for what would be the best mirror on the market. A mirror that everyone would use, casual riders and racers alike.
This product was developed by bike racers so we know our market. Everyone who saw our prototypes loved them and said they would use it from Pro racers to new riders. Bike shops who saw it said "We could sell these like candy".

We had licensing agreement with one of the major bike companies and they took their time getting it to market and finally decided to shelve it before they released any to the market. We have since ended our licensing agreement.

Anyone who has the means to produce and distribute our product on a large scale is welcome to PM me.

[saab2000]

I am going to bed now. Let's see where this one goes by morning.... :banana:

[Louis]

Swoop's Bike

How about the Mirror Stage? I bet Swoop can tell us all about that too.


Info on his power supply is here: http://www.runyourcarwithwater.com

http://www.runyourcarwithwater.com/diagram.jpg

[dirtdigger88]

who wear a helmet???

Jason

[Bruce K]

My memory is sometimes sketchy but I believe we had a thread with a link to a product that put a lipstick camera under your saddle facing rearward that had a tiny view screen on the handlebars.

Way too techno for my tastes.

On the other hand, the woman my friend and I saw today riding with full headphones who couldn't hear us and nearly jumped out of her saddle as we passed could probably have used something like that.

BK

As an afterthought - Hey Saab... Do you think they could miniaturize the traffic avoidance systems and blast a warning in the riders ear - "Turn Right NOW!" ?

[pdxmech13]

http://www.londonskaters.com/cycling/images/P7010314.JPG

nah he uses speedplays

[jimcav]

and that is because i ride sometime on a highway and have to go straight where some cars are trying to take the exit ramp.

i use the sprintech mirror which is sleek and fits in the bar end.

i really use it, and plan to continue on each bike i ride.

jim

[Fivethumbs]

Did you yell, "On yer left!"

[swoop]

hey, don't bring me into it. i'm too busy cutting all the bibs off my shorts in this lovefest.

someone might have seen me today up north of malibu bombing decker in a baseball cap... i don't wanna hear about how 'dangerous' that was.


i would like for all the nice people that ride bikes to be able to look under their armpits to see if someone is coming up on either side, to be able to sit up and turn all the way around without deviating from a straight line, to tune into what it feels like through your wheels when a truck is coming up on you, to listen enough to be able to differentiate between a truck, car, and a bus by the engine sound, and to behave predictably and in concert with their environment... which means being connected to what's going on around you buy using your senses and listening to them.

[eddief]

I even hate walking or hiking without it...but I do. Ok to look like a dork on a bike, but who wears a mirror when they hike?

I wanna see that person coming up quickly from behind; be it a cyclist or an ahole driver or my next girlfriend.

[H.Frank Beshear]

Cars have lot's of mirrors, drivers don't use them half the time either :crap: .

Eddie I've got the same mirror works well. I use when I ride alone, rarely if I ride with a group though.

[pdxmech13]

who would wanna listen to that noise whe they could listen to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImrtZRrS70w) on headphones.

[Fivethumbs]

[QUOTE=swoop]someone might have seen me today up north of malibu bombing decker in a baseball cap... i don't wanna hear about how 'dangerous' that was.

I think I saw you! Did the hat say, "I heart Michoacan"?

[Blue Jays]

who would wanna listen to that noise whe they could listen to Ace of Spades (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImrtZRrS70w) on headphones.If you like that song, you'll absolutely love Just 'Cos You Got The Power (That Don't Mean You Got The Right...) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roHWtievHoE) the next time you're in the mood for hard rock.

[sellsworth]

I always use a mirror. Yes I'm an absolute DORK. But I'm a dork who likes information and a mirror gives me very valuable information. Information like "Oh my dear lord there's a Mack truck about to hit me so I'd better do something!"

[A.L.Breguet]

As a safety measure, I'm selling all my bikes and buying a new couch and a big screen t.v.

[swoop]

we mirror haters don't hate you for being dorks. did you miss the memo? we all ride bikes... we are all dorks.

[William]

and that is because i ride sometime on a highway and have to go straight where some cars are trying to take the exit ramp.

i use the sprintech mirror which is sleek and fits in the bar end.

i really use it, and plan to continue on each bike i ride.

jim


http://www.aspirevelotech.com/ebayimages/Inst_Cap.jpg

[William]

http://www.carpartmailboxes.com/1_.jpg

http://www.bike-eye.com/new/images/index.jpg

http://www.krabach.info/bike_light/dual_mirror1.JPG

http://www.performancebike.com/product_images/500/40-1315-NCL-FRONT.jpg

http://www.defeet.com/blog/uploaded_images/Shane-Bike-Dashboard-758348.jpg

:rolleyes:

[stevep]

no garmin?
what if he gets lost.


http://www.carpartmailboxes.com/1_.jpg

http://www.bike-eye.com/new/images/index.jpg

http://www.krabach.info/bike_light/dual_mirror1.JPG

http://www.performancebike.com/product_images/500/40-1315-NCL-FRONT.jpg

http://www.defeet.com/blog/uploaded_images/Shane-Bike-Dashboard-758348.jpg

:rolleyes:

[97CSI]

Because I got taken into traffic today by... yes... by a guy wearing a mirror who said he didn't see me coming up on him. Come on, let's go. Mirror thread.Mirror or no mirror, it is always the responsibility of the person coming up from the rear to alert the other person of their presence and that they are passing. "On your left!", with plenty of time for the other riders reaction.

[Ti Designs]

I have this love/hate relationship with mirrors. There's this girl with a baby blue Vespa in my area, every time I run into Vespa girl it's motorpacing time while she checks out what kind of pain she's inflicting in her mirror. On the other hand, every time I look in a mirror there's this ugly guy looking back at me - kinda creapy.

[capybaras]

first rule of Italian driving at 1:18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y-8Cq7wib8

[flux]

They're great. Doesn't everyone use one? It's just like a helmet - a useful piece of equipment that each responsible person who values his / her safety would naturally use.

How's that for a start? :)

p.a.p.o.t.m.

[dekindy]

I use a single Sprintech mirror on the left bar end because the shop I purchased it at only had the single mirror. I would have rather had the pair.

I use a Zefal Spy Glass road model mirror on my downtube that let's me see how close the rider behind me is and gives me vision to the right rear also.

[chuckred]

less dorky alternative (http://www.cycleaware.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3&zenid=9980151d61c7617030fd0b234d8161f1)

I confess I'm a mirror dork. I got sick of the propeller head image with the clip ons and a friend turned me on to these. A bit of a hassle to mount exactly right, and take a little getting used to, but they do work and work well.

They're only slightly noticeable - most people never know you have it on.

[avalonracing]

Will any of you guys be starting a "spoke protector" confessional thread too?

[chuckred]

Will any of you guys be starting a "spoke protector" confessional thread too?

one would have saved me alot of skin and stitches back in the 70s when a poorly adjusted derailleur went into the spokes at around 40 mph...

[sg8357]

Will any of you guys be starting a "spoke protector" confessional thread too?

Yes, since lots of us are still using Cambio-Corsa or Paris-Roubaix
drivetrains.

Scott G.

[GregLR]

I know that my contribution won't change the course of the mirror wars. As with many things in cycling there are well-reasoned and sensible arguments on both two sides.

I certainly understand the concerns of Swoop and others about the need to concentrate and look ahead when riding in a bunch, and in that and other situations to listen to the traffic and to turn the head to look around. I've also got the considered and lengthy argument against using mirrors by John Forrester in his book "Effective Cycling" that makes those and other points.

But as a longtime commuter, cycletourist and brevet rider (incl 2 PBPs) and 12-year helmet mirror wearer, it's too late for me to stop now and I find merit in the comments made in the extracts referred to below. I know that this affects ‘the look’ when I’m riding (see photo below), but this is how it is. I also admit to other fashion 'mistakes', eg, the helmet visor, and using those large zefal water bottles (that Swoop also hates) when cycletouring and on brevets.

Pavelka & Burke's "The Complete Book of Long Distance Cycling" (Rodale, 2000) makes this comment under the 'Rearview Mirrors' heading:

"These improve safety in traffic, so it's a mystery why more roadies don't use one. A rearview mirror lets your eyes know before your ears when a vehicle is coming from behind. Just as important, it also lets you know when nothing is there so that you can relax and safely ride around debris, potholes and broken pavement.

As opposed to handlebar mounted mirrors, a model that attaches to your helmet or glasses saves weight and clutter, and lets you scan behind by turning your head. If you object to the look of a mirror, get a miniature version that sticks to the inside corner of your sunglasses' left lens. Once it's positioned correctly and you get the hang of using it, it's very effective."

Jean and Hartley Alley's "Colorado Cycling Guide" (Pruett, 1990) includes this passage:

"I'm convinced that the rearview mirror is cycling's most important safety device. It has saved me and other cyclists from countless life-threatening situations.

If you read the important books on bicycle touring...you'll see that the majority of these authors use and recommend the rearview mirror. Among others, Eugene Sloane, Fred Delong, Richard Ballantine, Raymond Bridge, Karen and Gary Hawkins, and John Rakowski are all advocates of the rearview mirror.

You wouldn't for a moment think of driving a car without a rearview mirror. A mirror gives you instantaneous access to vital information: it tells you what's behind you and what's about to overtake you.

The most common bike-auto collision occurs when an overtaking car side-swipes a bicyclist. With a mirror you can see overtaking vehicles and swerve out of the way, if that is necessary. The mirror helps you anticipate all sorts of dangerous situations....

...Don't make the mistake of making a turn with just a glance in the mirror...turning your head and looking back is a preliminary signal to the cars and bikes behind you that want to make a turn or change lanes...To sum up, check in your mirror, turn your head and look over your shoulder, and if all is clear give a hand signal and then make the turn..."

[fierte_poser]

Greg,

Which mirror do you use?

Kent

[GregLR]

Kent

I use the Blackburn mirror - see picture and some details on this page http://tinyurl.com/4evr4g . (This one was formerly made by Rhode Gear.)

Greg

[Kahuna]

That's it! People should require a license to have a mirror! Like a hand gun.

Because after all, mirrors dont' kill people...

and "from my cold dead fingers" (I swear by my Sprintech just like my Glock)

Swoop is right BTW.

hey, don't bring me into it. i'm too busy cutting all the bibs off my shorts in this lovefest.

someone might have seen me today up north of malibu bombing decker in a baseball cap... i don't wanna hear about how 'dangerous' that was.


i would like for all the nice people that ride bikes to be able to look under their armpits to see if someone is coming up on either side, to be able to sit up and turn all the way around without deviating from a straight line, to tune into what it feels like through your wheels when a truck is coming up on you, to listen enough to be able to differentiate between a truck, car, and a bus by the engine sound, and to behave predictably and in concert with their environment... which means being connected to what's going on around you buy using your senses and listening to them.

[thinpin]

Greg, is that photo on the road up to buffalo? I think I passed you that day, I remember the serotta!

[jamesau]

Another mirror-wearer chimes in.

That a mirror alerts me to overtaking traffic is obvious. It does provide subtler info, such as:
1) being able to quickly determine whether the vehicle has ceded lane control to me, especially on narrow-shouldered roads. (This also tells me the driver 'sees' me).
2) (many horse and landscaping trailers are wider than their tow-vehicles); the mirror alerts me to these trailers.
3) how many overtaking vehicles there are in an approaching line.

I can hold my line while looking over my shoulder or under my arm. A mirror just makes it easier, provides a much wider field of view, and allows a faster scan cycle.

I wear the take-a-look by bike peddlar. I would wear the stealthier ViewPoint but wear a Rx.

[stevep]

quote from swoop.
reported by one of his patients...


" you think you got problems? there's another freakin mirror thread over on the serotta forum... relax... yr desire to kill 20 people will go away over time...
i gotta go... see you next week..."

[djg]

someone might have seen me today up north of malibu bombing decker in a baseball cap... i don't wanna hear about how 'dangerous' that was.




Dangerous? Was it a yankees cap?

[FMS_rider]

I use a mirror for the simple reason that it helps me relax when I ride alone, especially when there is a strong headwind and I cannot hear cars approaching. Most of my riding is on sparsely traveled rural roads and with an occasional glance in the mirror I can ride further out into the roadway away from the broken shoulder while relaxing and enjoying the scenery.

For me, safety is a non-issue, at least in summer. Cyclists do get hit from behind, but it is rare according to published statistics, and from the reports I have read I don't think a mirror would have helped in most of these accidents --you cannot react in time to a sudden swerve from a fast-moving vehicle. Also in my case, several decades of rockclimbing have eliminated fear from my repertoire of emotions.

In winter a mirror is particularly helpful. I just added one to my winter bike at the beginning of this season and it made riding much more enjoyable. In Wisconsin there are snowdrifts and rutted ice that force you into the middle of the road, and with a mirror I can plan ahead when I have to do that when there are vehicles approaching from behind. On snow covered roads you often cannot hear approaching cars until they are very close, or judge their position on the roadway from the sound as you can on dry pavement. And on rural roads I am able to pick the best line (or in some cases, the only line, which can be across the center line) when I know there are no approaching cars. Another important issue is that cars are much more likely to lose control than I am on icy pavement (with studded tires), and although I have not yet encountered that situation, I know I will be much more likely to see than hear a vehicle that is sliding toward me from behind on black ice.

I have tested virtually every conceivable form of mirror (I have a box full of them, including all the designs described in this thread), and have even designed and built several that are not commercially available (the best being a modified Mirracycle mirror that attaches to the top of an STI hood to which I have bonded a titanium disk). However, I have found the Italian made mirror illustrated in William’s post (#23) to be by far the best of the commercial designs. With most handlebar shapes I have tried it even works when I am in the drops (I now have them on 3 bikes). If you are concerned about looks, it is much less conspicuous than anything other than the tiny mirrors that you stick inside glasses (which do not work for my old eyes). Here is a link to Aspire VeloTech, the American distributor for the Italian mirror: http://www.aspirevelotech.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=Mirrors .

I am such a strong believer in the Italian mirror that I have prepared some drawings and photographs that will enable you to install it at the optimal angle on the first try (it has long flexible rubber “flanges” that fit over the handlebar drop and are secured by the wrap, so it took me a number of tries to get it positioned optimally on the first try). Send me a PM and I will email you the instructions. (In view of my over-the-top review I suppose I should state that I have no ties to the manufacturer or distributor even though I don't think that is necessary because of the level of trust on this forum.)

An alternative version of that mirror (Sprintech) is VASTLY inferior to the Italian design despite the ball joint that makes it easy to adjust and the inclusion of one for the right as well as left handlebar. The Sprintech mirror has an irregular surface that impairs visibility, extends much too far from the end of the drop because of the ball joint, and its surface curvature is too convex so that you cannot see as much detail at a distance. Furthermore, the mirror on the right side is useless (unless you are a Brit). The last image in William's post #24 shows the Sprintech. (To jimcav: my apologies for bashing your favorite mirror --however if you buy one of the Italian mirrors, install it using my diagrams and photos, and still prefer the Sprintech I will buy it from you and pay all of your postage costs.)

Lew

edit: I deleted an image of the Italian mirror on my winter bike --embarassingly low quality. Just have a look at the image on William's post #23 (while trying to visualize how it would look in the absence of the ugliest bar tape I have ever seen).

[Nick H.]

I have tested every conceivable Mirror...the best being a Mirracycle

At last somebody mentions the Mirrycle! :beer: I've tried so many mirrors, and this is the only which gives a view comparable to that of a regular car or motorcycle mirror. The lens quality and size and curvature put it in a different league to lesser mirrors. And it locates in just the right place - when you're cruising fast all day you really can trust what it's telling you without having to move out of your aero riding position. And if you move from the hoods to the drops, the mounting is so well designed it takes just a second to adjust the angle. After you've tried a Mirrycle the mirrors sold in bike shops seem like dangerous junk. I rely on a mirror because I like to block out external noise with high quality in-ear speakers which are custom-moulded to fit deep into my ear canal.

FMS, if you ever do a 'how to' for fitting a Mirrycle to STI levers I'd love to see it.

I'm building a tourer at the moment and have decided on 8 speed Uniglide Dura Ace with downtube levers for various reasons. One unexpected benefit is that I can use an original Mirrrycle with non-aero brake levers!:banana:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a248/nhorley/mirrycle.jpg

[Louis]

If I had to guess, I'd say that on this thread the mirror users are domininating the haters. They usually slink off without saying much, too ashamed to admit that they use them.

I wonder if this is yet more evidence that Americans of a certain stripe are motivated for change...

Louis

[swoop]

If I had to guess, I'd say that on this thread the mirror users are domininating the haters. They usually slink off without saying much, too ashamed to admit that they use them.

I wonder if this is yet more evidence that Americans of a certain stripe are motivated for change...

Louis


i support people that scare me on bikes?

[barry1021]

Because I got taken into traffic today by... yes... by a guy wearing a mirror who said he didn't see me coming up on him.

Come on, let's go. Mirror thread.

Using a mirror doesnt guarantee perfect knowledge and vision. If you were "taken into traffic" by a guy without a mirror would you have posted? There are all different levels of riders with and without mirrors. :no:

b21

[eddief]

...I do so enjoy yelling "car back" to a bunch of knuckleheads too vane to do the smart thing.

[GregLR]

Greg, is that photo on the road up to buffalo? I think I passed you that day, I remember the serotta!
thinpin - yes, that photo was taken by the official photographer on the Audax Alpine Classic, on the way to the National Park entrance - I rode the shortest option with my partner, Toni, because she hadn't ridden up Buffalo before - Greg

[97CSI]

I know that my contribution won't change the course of the mirror wars. As with many things in cycling there are well-reasoned and sensible arguments on both two sides.Not sure that riding on the wrong side of the road isn't more dangerous than riding w/wo a mirror. :)

[thinpin]

Not sure that riding on the wrong side of the road isn't more dangerous than riding w/wo a mirror. :)
Ah but left IS right - didnt you know? :D

[tv_vt]

I'm with FMS on this one. The Italian bike mirror from Aspire Velotech is great. Very subtle and un-dorky looking, doesn't get bounced around on bumpy roads. Lets me know when I've dropped someone - comes in handy when I'm riding with my wife (though I can rarely drop her or anyone else these days). Course is good with traffic, too.

TV

[shoe]

alright greg lr is proof that yes you can rock a mirror and still be popular with the ladies..as far as i'm concerned they are cool as long as your friends don't find out....then again i have alot of tattoos so i think the mirror would sort of clash with my machismo image...dave

[dekindy]

Got a picture?

My partner and I have a US Patent for what would be the best mirror on the market. A mirror that everyone would use, casual riders and racers alike.
This product was developed by bike racers so we know our market. Everyone who saw our prototypes loved them and said they would use it from Pro racers to new riders. Bike shops who saw it said "We could sell these like candy".

We had licensing agreement with one of the major bike companies and they took their time getting it to market and finally decided to shelve it before they released any to the market. We have since ended our licensing agreement.

Anyone who has the means to produce and distribute our product on a large scale is welcome to PM me.

[dekindy]

At last somebody mentions the Mirrycle! :beer: I've tried so many mirrors, and this is the only which gives a view comparable to that of a regular car or motorcycle mirror. The lens quality and size and curvature put it in a different league to lesser mirrors. And it locates in just the right place - when you're cruising fast all day you really can trust what it's telling you without having to move out of your aero riding position. And if you move from the hoods to the drops, the mounting is so well designed it takes just a second to adjust the angle. After you've tried a Mirrycle the mirrors sold in bike shops seem like dangerous junk. I rely on a mirror because I like to block out external noise with high quality in-ear speakers which are custom-moulded to fit deep into my ear canal.

FMS, if you ever do a 'how to' for fitting a Mirrycle to STI levers I'd love to see it.

I'm building a tourer at the moment and have decided on 8 speed Uniglide Dura Ace with downtube levers for various reasons. One unexpected benefit is that I can use an original Mirrrycle with non-aero brake levers!:banana:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a248/nhorley/mirrycle.jpg

Can you position the mirror is on the inward side of the shifter instead of outside? If you can do this, does it give as good a view? I transport my bike a lot and would not like to have to reposition for every ride unless you tell me this is no big deal.

[clweed]

Speaking of mirrors, I received this in an email this morning

http://www.aspirevelotech.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=RBM_1001&Category_Code=MIRROR

[dave thompson]

Can you position the mirror is on the inward side of the shifter instead of outside? If you can do this, does it give as good a view? I transport my bike a lot and would not like to have to reposition for every ride unless you tell me this is no big deal.
The mirror can pivot on the thru bolt, that you can see on the very top of the stem, and be rotated to the inside of the handlebar width for transportation and rotated back to its' original position for riding. Not a big deal at all.

[rwsaunders]

Speaking of mirrors, I received this in an email this morning

http://www.aspirevelotech.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=RBM_1001&Category_Code=MIRROR

I use them (left side only) and they work extremely well. Very clear and no vibration whatsoever.

[dekindy]

The mirror can pivot on the thru bolt, that you can see on the very top of the stem, and be rotated to the inside of the handlebar width for transportation and rotated back to its' original position for riding. Not a big deal at all.

Thanks.

[PaMtbRider]

One of the guys on our bike tour in Colorado this year had one of these:
http://beerviewmirrors.com/
I thought it was pretty cool and will be ordering a couple as stocking stuffers for christmas this year.