Plastic Bottle

[I Want Sachs?]

With the new reports about plastic bottles, does anyone know what is acceptable, or whether there are any definitely no-nos that we shoud throw away? The big makes are Specialized, Trek, and Elite. How about Camelbaks? Thanks.

[Big Daddy]

20 + years of plastic bottles and drain bammage yet.

[sbornia]

are any definitely no-nos that we shoud throw away?

I believe that regular bike bottles (marked with a "4" on the bottom) are ok to be reused, just not cleaned in the dishwasher. The very high water temps can cause toxins to leach from the plastic.

[jhcakilmer]

I've swtched to Sigg and Klean Kanteen metal bottles. We have also switched to glass storage dishes, instead of tuperware. It's near impossible to avoid plastics all together, but I don't see the harm in limiting my exposure.

Particularly, I'm concerned about Bisphenol-A which is used in most plastic bottles including the Nalgene bottles. In laboratory testing, it was found to cause the same effects as estrogen, and other related pathologies.

I'm still going to use plastic bike bottles, but I figure the water is only sitting in the container for a minimal amount of time, plus I don't have other options, or atleast ones that will work as well!

[MilanoTom]

According to this, all but #7 (polycarbonate, as in Lexan as in Naglene) and #3 (as if anybody used a PVC bottle) are OK.

http://trusted.md/blog/vreni_gurd/2007/03/29/plastic_water_bottles

http://www.grist.org/advice/ask/2004/08/02/umbra-bottles/

[gasman]

I

Particularly, I'm concerned about Bisphenol-A which is used in most plastic bottles including the Nalgene bottles. In laboratory testing, it was found to cause the same effects as estrogen, and other related pathologies.

I'm still going to use plastic bike bottles, but I figure the water is only sitting in the container for a minimal amount of time, plus I don't have other options, or atleast ones that will work as well!


yea bisphenol-A is found in polycarbonate(the clear plastic, often colored water bottles) the rest don't have Bis A used in the manufacture but who knows about any plastic for food or drink ? It may be a lifetime of low leaching out of plastic can cause problems. There are plenty of things to worry about in this world isn't there ?

[rwsaunders]

I always worry about the heavy metals....in cars. :cool:

[Grant McLean]

I've swtched to Sigg and Klean Kanteen metal bottles. We have also switched to glass storage dishes, instead of tuperware. It's near impossible to avoid plastics all together, but I don't see the harm in limiting my exposure.

Particularly, I'm concerned about Bisphenol-A which is used in most plastic bottles including the Nalgene bottles. In laboratory testing, it was found to cause the same effects as estrogen, and other related pathologies.


Sigg and Laken brand aluminum bottles have a coating inside that contains BPA.
so, switching from plastic to Aluminum to avoid BPA isn't helping!
Both Sigg and Laken say their liner doesn't leach into the water,
I have the government certificates at work, they test to only the level
required by the european government. Are even smaller amounts present?
who knows. does it matter? who knows.

Many foods, like soups and vegetables, are in cans lined with BPA. This is
by far the greatest human exposure to BPA.

All camelbak products are now reformulated without BPA, anything that's new
has a "No BPA" sticker on it. Lots about that on their website.

Specialized brand squeezy waterbottles were re-tested, and re-certified this
year as being leaching-free and BPA free, according to an article in last months
Bicycle Retailer magazine.

-g

[Grant McLean]

According to this, all but #7 (polycarbonate, as in Lexan as in Naglene)

#7 just means "other" plastic.

not a huge help in what it may or may not contain.
It's a catch all for many types of plastic.

http://www.recyclenow.org/r_plastics.html#other7

If you just want to avoid BPA, and you want a hard plastic, reuseable bottle,
the new Camelbak bottles made from "triton" material seem to be a good choice.

http://www.camelbak.com/index.cfm?gclid=CNHM74P70ZICFQLylgod13YrIQ

-g

[I Want Sachs?]

Sigg and Laken brand aluminum bottles have a coating inside that contains BPA.
so, switching from plastic to Aluminum to avoid BPA isn't helping!
Both Sigg and Laken say their liner doesn't leach into the water,
I have the government certificates at work, they test to only the level
required by the european government. Are even smaller amounts present?
who knows. does it matter? who knows.

Many foods, like soups and vegetables, are in cans lined with BPA. This is
by far the greatest human exposure to BPA.

All camelbak products are now reformulated without BPA, anything that's new
has a "No BPA" sticker on it. Lots about that on their website.

Specialized brand squeezy waterbottles were re-tested, and re-certified this
year as being leaching-free and BPA free, according to an article in last months
Bicycle Retailer magazine.

-g
Wow. Lots of great information. Thanks.

[William]

Hmmmm......what about PEX?



William


PS: Does the fact that eRICHIE subcontracts out his water bottles to stevep for graphics adhesion (sitting amid a pile of blank water bottles drawing on "e"'s logo with a red sharpie) have any effect on leaching?

[soulspinner]

yea bisphenol-A is found in polycarbonate(the clear plastic, often colored water bottles) the rest don't have Bis A used in the manufacture but who knows about any plastic for food or drink ? It may be a lifetime of low leaching out of plastic can cause problems. There are plenty of things to worry about in this world isn't there ?


+1

[Ti Designs]

Lemme get this straight, we ride on public roads, breathing in car exhaust,and you're worried about toxic bottles?

[stevep]

william,
i send them to china where they are painted by hand using leak free lead paint. dont worry about it.
i have them painted on the inside of the bottle so the paint wont come off.



Hmmmm......what about PEX?



William


PS: Does the fact that eRICHIE subcontracts out his water bottles to stevep for graphics adhesion (sitting amid a pile of blank water bottles drawing on "e"'s logo with a red sharpie) have any effect on leaching?

[jhcakilmer]

Sigg and Laken brand aluminum bottles have a coating inside that contains BPA.
so, switching from plastic to Aluminum to avoid BPA isn't helping!
Both Sigg and Laken say their liner doesn't leach into the water,
I have the government certificates at work, they test to only the level
required by the european government. Are even smaller amounts present?
who knows. does it matter? who knows.

Many foods, like soups and vegetables, are in cans lined with BPA. This is
by far the greatest human exposure to BPA.

All camelbak products are now reformulated without BPA, anything that's new
has a "No BPA" sticker on it. Lots about that on their website.

Specialized brand squeezy waterbottles were re-tested, and re-certified this
year as being leaching-free and BPA free, according to an article in last months
Bicycle Retailer magazine.

-g


Well, according to the Sigg website, and the enviromental working group Sigg has stopped using any plastic in lining their bottles.

I also was aware of the can food.....we should be eating as much fresh food as possible, so this shouldn't be as much of a problem.

I just don't trust any polymer/plastic, so I'll be minimizing the contact. It's not a big deal, it's just what works for me. We haven't had to go to any extreme, just use glass for storage, and I actually use the Klean Kanteen (stainless steel) bottle the most for drinking water.

With cancer rates soring to an all time high, I think we underestimate the environmental factors that detrimentally effect our bodies. I'm sure there are 5 other toxins in my system, for everyone that I cut out, but all I can do is change what I know, or suspect to be harmful.

[jhcakilmer]

#7 just means "other" plastic.

not a huge help in what it may or may not contain.
It's a catch all for many types of plastic.

http://www.recyclenow.org/r_plastics.html#other7

If you just want to avoid BPA, and you want a hard plastic, reuseable bottle,
the new Camelbak bottles made from "triton" material seem to be a good choice.

http://www.camelbak.com/index.cfm?gclid=CNHM74P70ZICFQLylgod13YrIQ

-g


But what is "triton"?? What testing have they done to ensure that it does not leach?

At our research lab, when I was in grad school, they use to store the ultra-pure water (milli-A RO) in glass, since they couldn't find any plastic container in which it wouldn't leach.

So if they couldn't produce a scientific grade container, that wouldn't leach, how are we suppose to believe that someone is able to do it for the standard consumer. The labs pay lots of money for high-grade products, but we're expect to get the same, or higher quality for a fraction of the price??? Just a thought.

[Fixed]

bro one day we die it's how we live that counts

cheers

[jhcakilmer]

bro one day we die it's how we live that counts

cheers

True that, but of anything we should be most fervent about what goes into our body. Some of it we can control, and some we can not....such as that huge horse fly last night on the ride..... :D

[Karin Kirk]

+1 with the move to glass containers.
For my daily water bottle that I carry with me (not on the bike) I now use a large mason jar. I get lots of comments and wisecracks, but I like the glass. So far I haven't dropped it and broken it yet.

I also like my Sigg water bottle, but I wish they published more about what's in the lining.

Nalgene makes some bottles from a material other than the clear lexan. It's rigid, unlike a bike bottle, but it's translucent like a bike bottle and doesn't contain bis-A. I have one of those bottles.

I agree that it feels good to cut out toxins that we know about. But then again plastics and other nasties are so prevalent that it's hard to get away from them completely. But we try.

[Ti Designs]

But then again plastics and other nasties are so prevalent that it's hard to get away from them completely. But we try.

I'm getting rid of all my credit cards for health reasons.

[Karin Kirk]

I'm getting rid of all my credit cards for health reasons.

I upgraded all my credit cards to titanium or carbon fiber.

[Grant McLean]

But what is "triton"?? What testing have they done to ensure that it does not leach?



Well, tritan contains no BPA or other phthalates. If it's not there, it can't leach.
If you want to avoid the plastics that contain BPA, it's one choice, that's all
i'm saying.

you can google Eastman Tritan copolyester, and see if you can find more info,
if you're interested.

-g

[I Want Sachs?]

Lemme get this straight, we ride on public roads, breathing in car exhaust,and you're worried about toxic bottles?

We try to make riding on the road safer by lobbying for bike lanes and campaign for drivers to respect riders; we try to lobby for less polluting standards for our cars; nothing lost in trying to choose less toxic water carrier when we ride. :beer:

[cadence231]

I have been using these bottles aby Soma for the last few years. http://www.somafab.com/bottle.html

[fiamme red]

Canada Likely to Label Plastic Ingredient "Toxic":

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/16/business/worldbusiness/16plastic.html?em&ex=1208577600&en=d988949da77701dc&ei=5087%0A

[Ahneida Ride]

Go Stainless Steel at Velo-Orange
Lasts forever, no leaching ..... Problem Solved ..... ;)

About 15 frn

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-84224226242177_1995_9991893

[thejen12]

I believe that regular bike bottles (marked with a "4" on the bottom) are ok to be reused, just not cleaned in the dishwasher. The very high water temps can cause toxins to leach from the plastic.
What happens to the toxins after they leach from the plastic? Do they go down the drain in the dishwasher? Or do they hang around just waiting for me to drink from the bottle?

I open the dishwasher and let the bottles air dry. I may not use them for a week or more. Are the toxins going to get in my drinking water then, or only if the bottle is still hot? I'm curious.

Thanks, Jenn

[steve575]

Sigg and Laken brand aluminum bottles have a coating inside that contains BPA.
so, switching from plastic to Aluminum to avoid BPA isn't helping!
Both Sigg and Laken say their liner doesn't leach into the water,
I have the government certificates at work, they test to only the level
required by the european government. Are even smaller amounts present?
who knows. does it matter? who knows.

Many foods, like soups and vegetables, are in cans lined with BPA. This is
by far the greatest human exposure to BPA.

All camelbak products are now reformulated without BPA, anything that's new
has a "No BPA" sticker on it. Lots about that on their website.

Specialized brand squeezy waterbottles were re-tested, and re-certified this
year as being leaching-free and BPA free, according to an article in last months
Bicycle Retailer magazine.

-g
So Specialized bottles are ok? How about in a dishwasher?

[Walter]

I see that the use of a dishwasher (high temps) makes the toxins leach. If one has washed bottles in a dishwasher are the bottles toast from then on or only right after the hi-temp washing? I have some #4 bottles but have washed them in a dishwasher a number of times...replace or oK?

[92degrees]

http://www.guyotdesigns.com/stainlessbottles?sc=11

[brians647]

What happens to the toxins after they leach from the plastic? Do they go down the drain in the dishwasher? Or do they hang around just waiting for me to drink from the bottle?

I open the dishwasher and let the bottles air dry. I may not use them for a week or more. Are the toxins going to get in my drinking water then, or only if the bottle is still hot? I'm curious.

Thanks, Jenn

Great question. I was thinking the same thing. If the toxins leach out when the plastic is hot, and goes down the drain, who cares, right? I'm not drinking the dirty dishwasher liquid.

Or, if the leaching materials are only able to be released when the bottles are hot, then as long as I don't put hot coffee in there, I'm okay?

I don't get it either. Something is missing. Having plastics leach toxins into food that come into direct contact while they're hot and in the microwave is something I can grasp. Having toxins make their way out when the plastic is cold, because it was hot earlier is something that doesn't quite make sense to me.

Someone please explain!

[pdxmech13]

the new camelback bottles and soma has made a bottle for a number of years.

[sevencyclist]

Great question. I was thinking the same thing. If the toxins leach out when the plastic is hot, and goes down the drain, who cares, right? I'm not drinking the dirty dishwasher liquid.

Or, if the leaching materials are only able to be released when the bottles are hot, then as long as I don't put hot coffee in there, I'm okay?

I don't get it either. Something is missing. Having plastics leach toxins into food that come into direct contact while they're hot and in the microwave is something I can grasp. Having toxins make their way out when the plastic is cold, because it was hot earlier is something that doesn't quite make sense to me.

Someone please explain!

I wonder whether having the bottles heated at some point causes the plastic surface to go through change, so that toxin can leach out to water subsequently regardless of temperature. Sounds like we need Dustin Hoffman to answer more about plastics.

[brians647]

I wonder whether having the bottles heated at some point causes the plastic surface to go through change, so that toxin can leach out to water subsequently regardless of temperature. Sounds like we need Dustin Hoffman to answer more about plastics.

HA! True. We need a resident expert on these forums for topics like this.