VeloNews: Trek dumping Lemond

[BumbleBeeDave]

This is on the VN web site. Interesting . . .

BBD

===========================

Trek announces an end to deal with Greg LeMond
By Steve Frothingham
Posted Apr. 8, 2008

Trek Bicycle president John Burke told employees this morning that the company was ending its business relationship with Tour de France champion Greg LeMond.

Burke cited LeMond's public comments regarding doping allegations against Lance Armstrong, LeMond's decision to offer a mass merchant accessory line in 2000, and his "inconsistent" commitment to the brand.

"Greg's public comments hurt the LeMond brand and the Trek brand," Burke said.

"Despite our repeated efforts to persuade Greg to focus on selling his bikes, he continued his personal attacks," he said.

Burke said he had encouraged LeMond to seek a new partner. He said LeMond had failed to find one.

Burke said Trek dealers had complained about LeMond's comments regarding Armstrong and said they were hurting sales of both brands.

Burke said Trek had rescued LeMond's company from failure in the mid-1990s and had taken "extraordinary steps" to support the brand.

He said the contract with LeMond was scheduled to end in 2010 but that he told LeMond last fall that the contract would not be extended beyond that time.

He said LeMond filed a suit against Trek on March 20 and that suit precipitated the decision to ask a federal court to end the relationship immediately.

"Greg was like a member of the family," Burke said.

[e-RICHIE]

wow that's one way to empty your cachemo atmo.

[davids]

Any information about the suit Lemond filed?

"family", huh?

[coylifut]

I heard he was jumping on the hand-made bandwagon and producing lugged steel bikes built in Della Santa's shop, by a guest builder.

[e-RICHIE]

Any information about the suit Lemond filed?

"family", huh?
it was an Ermenegildo Zegna iirc atmo.

[johnnymossville]

Greg LeMond's stock went up or down in my book. hmmmm. I wonder what the story behind the story really is?

[Tony Edwards]

Ultimately his war with Lance probably doomed this relationship - there's no question ATMO that the Lance connection has been far more valuable to Trek than the Lemond brand has. Frankly if it's true he intends to work with the Della Santa shop to build nice steel bikes, it might be a better use for his talents anyway.

[Dave B]

Greg LeMond's stock went up or down in my book. hmmmm. I wonder what the story behind the story really is?


Lance says you can one of us not both.

If you are Trek it is an easy decision.

My first great road bike was a Lemond Zurich...until a blue hair hit me and destroyed it.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . that burke felt he had to include the reason about Lemond launching a mass merchant accessory line eight years ago. ***?

So who will make Lemond's bikes now? Did Trek make them before on the same line as Trek's, or was it in a separate facility just owned by Trek?

Does this mean that Trek's official company view is now that "Lance Armstrong is a suspected doper, but he's OUR suspected doper?"

And yeah, what exactly did Lemond file suit against Trek about?

After that story in Cycle Sport (or was it Pro Cycling?) about Lemond and his being so honest about talking about his marriage troubles, his son's troubles, and all the stuff he's gone through, I have a lot more admiration for him now than I did for Armstrong. Lemond comes across as very much a "real" guy and I hope he does find someone else to build his bikes.

BBD

[e-RICHIE]

i wonder trek didn't have the stones to
do this when dad burke was alive atmo.

[e-RICHIE]

Does this mean that Trek's official company view is now that "Lance Armstrong is a suspected doper, but he's OUR suspected doper?"

BBD
BumbleBeeDave gets down atmo!

[cpg]

[QUOTE
"Greg was like a member of the family," Burke said.[/QUOTE]


So is this an example of tough love? I'm glad I'm not part of that family.

Curt

[deechee]

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/company/media

I hope there are some firesales!

[MilanoTom]

Don't know why VN chose to say that Trek "asked a federal court," when in fact they filed suit to request a declaratory judgment.

The below linked article doesn't add much, except for noting that Lemond's lawsuit is 41 pages long and was filed in minneapolis.

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2008/04/07/daily18.html?ana=from_rss

[johnnymossville]

I just wish Greg would thicken up the font in his logo just a bit. LOL It always bugged me. Maybe now's his chance?

[Sasha18]

"Greg was like a member of the family," Burke said.

This last line sounds so disingenuous.

Does this mean the demise of the most useful frame in the Trek line - the Poprad?

[J.Greene]

I like Greg Lemond. I wish he's not get in so many battles though. New book: Greg Lemond's Warmo

JG

[J.Greene]

Does this mean the demise of the most useful frame in the Trek line - the Poprad?
At that level.....Brand = decal.

JG

[paczki]

Does this mean that Trek's official company view is now that "Lance Armstrong is a suspected doper, but he's OUR suspected doper?"
+1000

What a bunch of wankers.

[jthurow]

Here's a link to LeMond's complaint as posted on the Trek site, http://www.trekbikes.com/pdf/media/en/03202008_Lemond.pdf. I haven't found a record of the suit actually being filed in the MN Court's Case Records database, http://www.mncourts.gov/default.aspx?page=1927.

jimi

[e-RICHIE]

the letter that trek dealers received about this
was abit less diplomatic than what's there on
the velonews linkmo.

[Dino]

Interesting comment on the mass market, because every day when I log into hotmail, I am greeted by a big banner ad with Lance pimping some ultra-vitamin-energy-booster. Maybe I'm wrong, and that ad is only targeted at me and not the mass market...

[Dino]

Oh, and John Burke...you are at mic, so step up and throw some bucks to the cause.

Greg, this one is on the house (until you get a new sponsor).

[GoJavs]

Lance never loses, yo.
:no:

[Big Dan]

Trek sucks.

[J.Greene]

This is gonna get good. I only read the first 15 pages or so of the Suit, but it looks like Lemond vs Armstrong to me.

JG

[Elefantino]

i wonder trek didn't have the stones to
do this when dad burke was alive atmo.
With absolutely no knowledge of the subject, I'd put a few clams on this roulette square.

This grudge has been building for a while.

"April 8: A great day to work at the best bicycle company in the world."

Sheesh!

[ecl2k]

I love the powerpoint slideshow on trek's site:
http://www.trekbikes.com/pdf/media/en/Trek_PPT_FINAL.pdf

Is it really a loss anyway? The steel cyclocross stuff was interesting (in that is was unique for your dealer to have a steel cx bike to test ride) but for the most part Lemond just slapped his label on trek designed bikes, kind of like hampsten cycles except with less taste.

[e-RICHIE]

the letter that trek dealers received about this
was abit less diplomatic than what's there on
the velonews linkmo.
here:

Important Announcement from Trek President John Burke
April 8, 2008

Today, Trek filed a lawsuit to sever our ongoing business relationship with Greg LeMond.

Coming to this decision and filing this lawsuit was an unfortunate step for Trek to take. It came only after much thought, reflection on our business and this relationship, and after receiving a 41-page lawsuit which Greg LeMond served on Trek Mar. 20, 2008

Trek began its business relationship with Greg LeMond in 1995. By 1999, the LeMond line was one of the fastest growing road bike brands and one of the top five largest road bike brands in the United States. Over the years, we have built the LeMond brand into a $15 million business, despite significant and ongoing difficulty with Greg.

Despite our high hopes for the LeMond brand, many innovative designs, strong commitment and support from Trek, the continued disparaging statements and harmful actions from Greg have undermined the LeMond brand and Trek as a whole. Continued threatened legal action from Greg has brought us to the place we find ourselves in today and forced the decision we have made.

We simply cannot let Greg LeMond continue to damage the Trek family, especially the retailers who have worked so hard to build and sell his brand. His actions are inconsistent with Trek values—values we believe in and live everyday. This is a relationship that we, as a company, can no longer afford to be in. We need to move away from Greg LeMond and go about our business.

To support you during this transition period, Trek will be offering LeMond retailers a sales rebate promotion to help drive the sales of your 2008 LeMond inventory. Additionally, you can look forward to seeing an exciting new line of Klein road bikes at Trek World in August 2008.

You can find additional materials with full details regarding today's announcement on Dexter.

With so many positive things going on at Trek and with our business stronger than ever, I want to reassure you that today's announcement will only make us a stronger company tomorrow.

Thank you for your business,

Best Regards,

John Burke

[Mud]

should be the title of GL new book. I thought this would happen at some point. Since this is a legalistic society lawsuits are inevitable. He was always in a no win situation and just pushed it over the edge. I stopped caring long ago about any of it.

[MilanoTom]

With absolutely no knowledge of the subject, I'd put a few clams on this roulette square.

This grudge has been building for a while.

"April 8: A great day to work at the best bicycle company in the world."

Sheesh!

That's for sure. It'll get interesting and quite ugly should the case make it to trial....

[cdimattio]

Trek sucks.

+1

[Ti Designs]

So what does this mean to the Lemond sponsored teams? From an industry point of view it's a very odd time to do this, pre season orders have been shipped and credit is extended for production. Without good sales Trek stands to hurt themselves in this move. I can even see a certain amount of backlash at Trek should the Lemond sponsorship of teams dry up suddenly. It's not like nobody knew Lemond was a Trek company...

[jmc22]

GL got what he deserves in my opinion... making statements without the the proof to back it up will bite you in the butt everytime.

Bye bye Greg, nothing worse then being dropped from the pack

[don'TreadOnMe]

I wonder what Flux/Kelly Benefits will ride...?

[MilanoTom]

So what does this mean to the Lemond sponsored teams? From an industry point of view it's a very odd time to do this, pre season orders have been shipped and credit is extended for production. Without good sales Trek stands to hurt themselves in this move. I can even see a certain amount of backlash at Trek should the Lemond sponsorship of teams dry up suddenly. It's not like nobody knew Lemond was a Trek company...

I'll bet that both sets of parties have had their papers ready to go for a while. Dick Burke passed away, and from there it was a matter of who would blink first.

[LegendRider]

LeMond is living proof that no good deed goes unpunished. Trek hitched it's wagon to Armstrong, now they have to sully the reputation of a great rider to preserve its relationship with their cash cow. I'll never buy a Trek.

[znfdl]

GL got what he deserves in my opinion... making statements without the the proof to back it up will bite you in the butt everytime.

Bye bye Greg, nothing worse then being dropped from the pack

+1

[Elefantino]

That's for sure. It'll get interesting and quite ugly should the case make it to trial....
Considering how smart Greg is at trial, and how credible (see: Landis vs. US), John Burke had better hope none of their phone conversations come up in court.

[Steve Hampsten]

Lemond just slapped his label on trek designed bikes, kind of like hampsten cycles except with less taste.

except that everything we do here is custom

and made in the usa

but i'll take the "taste" part

[dauwhe]

Is it really a loss anyway? The steel cyclocross stuff was interesting (in that is was unique for your dealer to have a steel cx bike to test ride) but for the most part Lemond just slapped his label on trek designed bikes, kind of like hampsten cycles except with less taste.

:confused:

My experience with Hampsten Cycles was wonderful. And they don't do stock bikes, as far as I know, so I'm very confused by the comparison.

Dave

[14max]

*

[BumbleBeeDave]

here:

To support you during this transition period, Trek will be offering LeMond retailers a sales rebate promotion to help drive the sales of your 2008 LeMond inventory. Additionally, you can look forward to seeing an exciting new line of Klein road bikes at Trek World in August 2008.

. . . if Gary Klein were suddenly to release a statement saying, "I fully support Greg and think Trek sucks."

I also like how Trek is disgusted with Greg, but not so disgusted that they aren't going to try to suck every cent of profit out of the bikes with his name on them that they've already shipped to dealers, rather than recall them and give dealers equivalent $$ in Trek's to sell.

I see a line of "Armstrong" bikes coming out of Trek in the next few years as soon as they shove all the LeMond hardware out the door.

BBD

[Dino]

Considering how smart Greg is at trial, and how credible (see: Landis vs. US), John Burke had better hope none of their phone conversations come up in court.

Man, the reality tv shows are missing the boat...

(I had a much cruder (and funnier) comment to make, but I think it might get me in trouble with the forum cops).


Can we get a custom builder in this forum to step up and make an OEM bike for Greg? Anyone? Anyone? Should be an opportunity worth $15M-ish...

[J.Greene]

[QUOTE=BumbleBeeDaveI see a line of "Armstrong" bikes coming out of Trek in the next few years as soon as they shove all the LeMond hardware out the door.

BBD[/QUOTE]

This is my thinking too.

JG

[fiamme red]

I see a line of "Armstrong" bikes coming out of Trek in the next few years as soon as they shove all the LeMond hardware out the door.http://www.classicrendezvous.com/images/British/Armstrong/Ad_1960_s.jpg

[J.Greene]

(I had a much cruder (and funnier) comment to make, but I think it might get me in trouble with the forum cops).


Go for it, your only 34 posts in. Not a big deal to come back as your dog.

JG

[Chris]

Lemond is a hero of mine and I have respected him more in recent years due to his openness about his life and his beliefs about the state of racing. Having said that, he has a long history of interpersonal difficulties in relationships across the spectrum of settings. I am sure that these personality aspects did a lot to contribute to this.

[Jason E]

I have not been here in a while, but this brought me back. If you go to the Trek Website and read LeMond's complaint, it's just more of the same about Lemond hating on Armstrong. He just sounds whiny and jealous, which is lame for a lot of reasons.

He's always had trouble playing nicely with others.

One of his points of evidence (not a lawyer so that may be the wrong term) is David Walsh's book. That's nuts.

"Here is a book! It is printed and stuff! It's my evidence."

He just sounds bitter and desperate, which is a shame.

I do not see how you can blame Trek for this one.

[cdimattio]

[QUOTE=jmc22]GL got what he deserves in my opinion... making statements without the the proof to back it up will bite you in the butt everytime. /QUOTE]

Not sure "Making statements without proof" is an accurate assessment.

"Shoot the messenger" might work better.

Trek is correct that omerata could have been better for THEIR business [several years ago], but I am not sure about the relevancy today. LeMond seems to own the relative moral high ground here.

The Trek response seems more emotional than measured. Business disputes do not need to be elevated to this level. Professionalism does not immediately come to mind. All parties lose here. The scorched earth approach will have financial implications for all parties.

[14max]

*

[OtayBW]

Greg LeMond's stock went up or down in my book. hmmmm. I wonder what the story behind the story really is?
I don't know either, but I'll bet his stock options tanked.

[shinomaster]

I heard he was jumping on the hand-made bandwagon and producing lugged steel bikes built in Della Santa's shop, by a guest builder.


I'll buy one.

[MarleyMon]

. . .

I also like how Trek is disgusted with Greg, but not so disgusted that they aren't going to try to suck every cent of profit out of the bikes with his name on them that they've already shipped to dealers, rather than recall them and give dealers equivalent $$ in Trek's to sell.
...
BBD
What about this from the letter e-RICHIE posted
" To support you during this transition period, Trek will be offering LeMond retailers a sales rebate promotion to help drive the sales of your 2008 LeMond inventory."
That sounds to me like they will sell at or near cost to get rid of them. I'll bet Trek wants them gone fast, because that letter sounds bitter.

Doesn't stevep's team get Lemond bikes?

[shinomaster]

Same frames, new decals, just like the old aluminum trek/lemonds.

[wtex]

Man, like 14, I'm shocked at the supposed Klein resurgence. With Lemond going almost all-carbon, it wasn't that interesting anymore, but a revived Klein? This would be nice to see.

[72gmc]

Great time to buy a LeMond... and some tools, because there may not be much dealer support.

[swoop]

i like lemond more than trek in terms of .. what's it called... a q rating?
so... trek and lance can go eff off.... i hope greg finds a new home for his name and makes some nice bikes out of corn husks or some such.
maybe merlin will grab him and relive the glory moments....

lance may have been a once in a lifetime dude with a work ethic and clean heart than even jesus aspired too be like (yeah right).. but greg was a real biker and i'll always love him for it. nothing personal lance... i'm talking abut the public self and not you... i don't know you.

i don't care about results... i respond to soul. i don't care whether or not someone was internally conflicted or not... i just know that my legs clinch vicariously when i watched lemond race. he was special and we're all better for him.

and i think lance was special but we're not all better for him. i think this postlance era will start again to look like the greg era and racers won't be enhanced automatons selling meritocracy over real suffering.

[fiamme red]

Let's face it, how many patriotic Americans want to buy a bike with a French-sounding name? :confused:

[Big Daddy]

i like lemond more than trek in terms of .. what's it called... a q rating?
so... trek and lance can go eff off.... i hope greg finds a new home for his name and makes some nice bikes out of corn husks or some such.
maybe merlin will grab him and relive the glory moments....

lance may have been a once in a lifetime dude with a work ethic and clean heart than even jesus aspired too be like (yeah right).. but greg was a real biker and i'll always love him for it. nothing personal lance... i'm talking abut the public self and not you... i don't know you.

i don't care about results... i respond to soul. i don't care whether or not someone was internally conflicted or not... i just know that my legs clinch vicariously when i watched lemond race. he was special and we're all better for him.

and i think lance was special but we're not all better for him. i think this postlance era will start again to look like the greg era and racers won't be enhanced automatons selling meritocracy over real suffering.

What I admired (and it's not much) was that dude would race himself into shape. Old school brother, old school. He would show up to the classics bundled up in his blubber, and suffer all the ay through, then come July, looked like a surfer. I admire that. He raced straight through, and oh yeah represented at the Worlds, not because he was making a statement, but because that is what a PRO does.

I could give a flip about his "Trek" bikes...go back to Della Santa(30%), Craig(30%) or even Merlin(hat trick of 30%)

He gave us Oakleys, Looks, carbon goodies, and a real paycheck. Sad now, he gives us a side show act.

[e-RICHIE]

i like lemond more than trek in terms of .. what's it called... a q rating?
so... trek and lance can go eff off.... i hope greg finds a new home for his name and makes some nice bikes out of corn husks or some such.
maybe merlin will grab him and relive the glory moments....

lance may have been a once in a lifetime dude with a work ethic and clean heart than even jesus aspired too be like (yeah right).. but greg was a real biker and i'll always love him for it. nothing personal lance... i'm talking abut the public self and not you... i don't know you.

i don't care about results... i respond to soul. i don't care whether or not someone was internally conflicted or not... i just know that my legs clinch vicariously when i watched lemond race. he was special and we're all better for him.

and i think lance was special but we're not all better for him. i think this postlance era will start again to look like the greg era and racers won't be enhanced automatons selling meritocracy over real suffering.
i get this atmo.

[Ti Designs]

I also like how Trek is disgusted with Greg, but not so disgusted that they aren't going to try to suck every cent of profit out of the bikes with his name on them that they've already shipped to dealers, rather than recall them and give dealers equivalent $$ in Trek's to sell.

There's a fine line between disgusted and stupid...

I see a line of "Armstrong" bikes coming out of Trek in the next few years as soon as they shove all the LeMond hardware out the door.

I don't see it. While Lance was on the cover of the Trek catalog for 7 straight years and he's clearly been the cornerstone of their advertising, I don't see his name on a bike. It's still just the bike industry, small potatoes when stacked up next to being the spokesperson for a major drug company.

[PaulE]

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/images/British/Armstrong/Ad_1960_s.jpg

Now that would be ironic.

con·sort [ kən sáwrt ]


intransitive verb (past and past participle con·sort·ed, present participle con·sort·ing, 3rd person present singular con·sorts)

Definition:

associate with undesirable: to associate with or spend time in the company of somebody undesirable ( formal )
consorting with known criminals




noun (plural con·sorts)

Definition:

1. spouse of monarch: the husband or wife of a reigning monarch


2. partner: a partner or companion ( formal )


3. ship that escorts another: a ship that accompanies another on a journey


4. group specializing in early music: a small group of musicians specializing in works of the baroque or an earlier period


[15th century. Via French< Latin consort- "having the same fate" < sors "fortune"]


in consort with in association or together with others (archaic or formal)

[M.Sommers]

"Greg's public comments hurt the LeMond brand and the Trek brand," Burke said. WOW. A man get's nailed for telling the truth? WHAT lesson does this teach our children? "Teach your children well" said CSN:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6pphVs8bF0

TREK is a joke. I never would've bought one of their plastic frames in the first place, but this only reminds me to trash their company every chance I get. Greg's comments hurt the LeMond brand? Mr. Burke, Sir, you are a liar and a loser.

[Ti Designs]

i don't care about results... i respond to soul.

That's why I watch the Blues Brothers while riding the trainer instead of those tour DVDs...

[MassBiker]

Sad now, he gives us a side show act.

Like Rock Racing.

[davids]

They both look bad:

GL looks whiny and naive. I mean, for eff's sake, did he really think that his business partner would in any manner appreciate him denigrating their meal ticket?

Trek, well... Trek looks like a business. They're focused on the bottom line, not the morality of the actions of their meal ticket.




...BTW, does anyone know how to get in touch with Lemond? It sounds like he can get me a very good deal on a Poprad.

[ox_rider]

Apparently Greg said Klein was gross.

[davids]

Apparently Greg said Klein was gross.That's just wrong.

[markie]

As far as I can tell none of the Lemonds were made in America any more. All the carbon treks and a number of the other higher end bikes (gary fisher ferrous)are made here. I do think they should be applauded for that.

I wonder how long before TREK owns an Armstrong brand of bikes? That look a lot like all the old Lemonds?

[Big Dan]

As far as I can tell none of the Lemonds were made in America any more. All the carbon treks and a number of the other higher end bikes (gary fisher ferrous)are made here. I do think they should be applauded for that.

I wonder how long before TREK owns an Armstrong brand of bikes? That look a lot like all the old Lemonds?

Not true. Check your sources.

[michael white]

The only intriguing thing to me is whether or not Klein actually makes a comeback (in the US?), as it seems to imply. Could be interesting.

As for losing Lemond, which wasn't a thriving brand, what did anyone expect? Trek/LA was a team, Lemond was an aquisition. Who's your daddy?

[AgilisMerlin]

maybe Lemond just does not care about his business/relationship with Trek

he detonated the bomb, during the Royd Landis case.

seems to me he is cleaning house..........purging all bad memories.

he will do fine.

his hell has past.

jmo

(he suckerpunched trek...............BIG TIME) and the result is predictable.

hope he still rides.

[markie]

Not true. Check your sources.

Sorry, if I got it wrong, but all the higher end Carbon Treks are made in the USA.

I do not know what lower end carbon TREK brand stuff is outsourced...?

[93legendti]

That's why I watch the Blues Brothers while riding the trainer instead of those tour DVDs...

Soul = The Commitments.

[fiamme red]

Look at the title of this article (body of the article is from the AP):

http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/17391444.html

"WI Company Says LeMond's Doping has Hurt Brand"

How's that for reading comprehension?

Hilarious!!!

[goonster]

Never mind "Consort". The new Armstrong Bicycles top-of-the-line model will be called "Blond Chick of the Week".


(was that bad?)

[Mud]

you will know what I mean when I say it takes forever. Right and wrong get lost in the legalese. The question is always about damages and how hard it is to assess them.

I really have the feeling that I will no longer be riding when this is settled and Greg and Lance will have gone the way of Barry, Mark, Roger and others.

The sport and the enjoyment are what matters. My wife will be home from work soon. The tubulars are pumped, the carbon wheels are cleaned off, the chains have been lubed with ATB, The Ottrot is Record (hers) the Legend is Dura Ace (mine), the battery on my Garmin is charged (have I covered all the threads on the forum) and life is good.

I will not think about Lance or Greg. :banana:

[BumbleBeeDave]

Man, like 14, I'm shocked at the supposed Klein resurgence. With Lemond going almost all-carbon, it wasn't that interesting anymore, but a revived Klein? This would be nice to see.

My understanding is that Trek bought out Gary Klein and bikes with his name on them are sold only overseas at this time. They were gonna let the name die. Gary Klein has nothing to do with Klein Bikes anymore.

I would not be at all surprised if the "exciting new line" of Klein bikes to come out next year are EXACTLY the same frames that have "Lemond " written on them now.

BBD

[pdxmech13]

After reading the claims and timeline on trek's dealer site I have come to the conclusion this is about 2 men not getting along. Period.

Trek isn't stupid and they would rather have this kinda image with Lemond than the other guy jmho.

[KJMUNC]

Personal feelings aside, I can't fault Trek for making the decision and frankly I'm surprised they let things fester this long before taking action. I hate to see GL get slammed, but he knowingly picked his battle and I'm sure he fully expected Trek's wrath.

That being said, the manner in which Trek chose to handle the announcement is just plain juvenile. I wonder how long it took some exec's underling to put together that ridiculous PDF on how-GL-has-wronged-Trek.....the epitome of "mommy he hit me" retribution. Now it just looks like Trek make the call purely on GL vs. LA instead of a business decision based on an ownership dispute. People get fired every day for breach of contract and general misconduct.....this is the first time I've seen someone put together such a self-aggrandizing piece of propaganda to convince themselves they made the right call.

They could've handled the whole deal with more class, but instead chose the low road.

No way Trek is going to chuck the technology/assets they developed under the Lemond badge.....in a few months it will be SSDB (same poop different badge)

[BumbleBeeDave]

A turd with a "Klein" badge on it? Or would that be a steaming pile with an "Armstrong" badge? . . . :rolleyes:

Either way, I don't think I'll be buying a Trek any time soon . . . :mad:

BBD

[Buzz]

Trek's power point presentation is a classic. Love the email snippets from customers and dealers to support their case.

Its all so silly.

[davids]

A turd with a "Klein" badge on it? Or would that be a steaming pile with an "Armstrong" badge? . . . :rolleyes:

Either way, I don't think I'll be buying a Trek any time soon . . . :mad:

BBDI hear good things from good riders about modern Lemonds, Fishers and Treks. I loved riding my Klein mountain bike for many years.

Nothing going on between GL and Trek has a thing to do with the quality of Trek's products.

[gt6267a]

Trek's power point presentation is a classic. Love the email snippets from customers and dealers to support their case.

Its all so silly.

yeah, i loved that. i am sure no one ever emailed trek saying "why do you sponser that doper a-bomb ..."

[Tobias]

Nothing going on between GL and Trek has a thing to do with the quality of Trek's products.“If” it is a sign of corporate integrity – or lack thereof -- it may be reflected at some level in product warranty.
I'm not buying a Trek so this doesn't affect me at all.

[Bud_E]

Soul = The Commitments.

Ride Sally, Ride.

[avalonracing]

I still have a Klein that was made in Washington State before Trek got hold of them. I raced the hell out of that bike.
Klein bikes were their own breed... Fat tubes, damn light, steep race geometry and high bottom brackets not to mention great paint.
As soon as Trek got hold of them the changed the sizes and geometry. While it would be great for them to offer a bike that is truly different than the Treks that will be seen soon enough. Don't hold your breath.

[michael white]

yeah, if they bring Klein back, it has to be an incarnation of the original, the power tubing and all. That's what it stood for, there's no reason or cred to do anything else. If they rebrand Lemond as Klein then you might as well save your coin and get a KHS, same diff. But really, they're not going to do that. The only reason to use the Klein name is if you're working with a Klein format. That's pretty interesting to me, if only because I too once had a Pinnacle which I thought was fantastic and rode for years. I'd really like to see what they can do with a material which has gone pretty much incognito for a few years now.

[Lifelover]

GL got what he deserves in my opinion... making statements without the the proof to back it up will bite you in the butt everytime.

Bye bye Greg, nothing worse then being dropped from the pack

+1

GL is a Moreon!

[93legendti]

Ride Sally, Ride.

If you play it, Wilson Pickett will come.



On another note, this was emailed to me today: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1207486214011&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter

[sjbraun]

I know many of you have great respect for GL. I suspect some of you even know him. But as one who doesn't, GL's criticisms of LA always seem self-serving to me. LA essentially dethroned GL from the top of the US cycling kingdom.
Greg has no evidence to support his insinuations that LA doped, aside from his repetition of others allegations. And GL's claims of purity don't convince me either. Does anyone have a blood or urine sample from GL's past that could prove his claim that he raced clean?
As far as the Trek-LeMond connection, GL never seemed to interested in promoting the frames that bare his name. He could have been a tremendous spokeman for his brand: a great comeback story, a champion's pedigree, an interesting and personable speaker. But did anyone ever see him working his brand? I didn't; (and for a while Tucson was home to a top 5 LeMond dealer.)
GK should have spent hours at a LeMond booth at the Tour de Tucson, or lead LeMond sponsored tours or...

Steve-whose wife very happily rides a Wisconsin-made carbon-steel frame LeMond.

[BumbleBeeDave]

yeah, if they bring Klein back, it has to be an incarnation of the original, the power tubing and all.

They won't be. Ten Ben Bucks says they will be the GL "min max" bikes they have now with "KLEIN" written on the downtube in some godawful ugly font.

BBD

[Big Dan]

I know many of you have great respect for GL. I suspect some of you even know him. But as one who doesn't, GL's criticisms of LA always seem self-serving to me. LA essentially dethroned GL from the top of the US cycling kingdom.
Greg has no evidence to support his insinuations that LA doped, aside from his repetition of others allegations. And GL's claims of purity don't convince me either. Does anyone have a blood or urine sample from GL's past that could prove his claim that he raced clean?
As far as the Trek-LeMond connection, GL never seemed to interested in promoting the frames that bare his name. He could have been a tremendous spokeman for his brand: a great comeback story, a champion's pedigree, an interesting and personable speaker. But did anyone ever see him working his brand? I didn't; (and for a while Tucson was home to a top 5 LeMond dealer.)
GK should have spent hours at a LeMond booth at the Tour de Tucson, or lead LeMond sponsored tours or...

Steve-whose wife very happily rides a Wisconsin-made carbon-steel frame LeMond.

Tour of Tucson? ***?

[michael white]

I guess I can't take that bet . . . cause you're probably right. :confused:

[sbornia]

They won't be. Ten Ben Bucks says they will be the GL "min max" bikes they have now with "KLEIN" written on the downtube in some godawful ugly font.

BBD

Maybe they could get stickers like SRAM used on that DA crank...

[wc1934]

Pretty interesting lawsuit - interesting reading - lots more will come out as it unfolds
item 102 - "Trek has never contended that Mr. LeMond lied about Mr. Armstrong"
item 105 "The truth can not cause damage to Trek, Trek's business or Trek's goodwill".
Also, I was surprised that Trek does not have a larger European market share - from 9/01 - 6/07 total sales in Spain, Holland and France was only about $42,700

[Elefantino]

Never mind "Consort". The new Armstrong Bicycles top-of-the-line model will be called "Blond Chick of the Week". That looks like my mom.

(was that bad, too?)
.

[Elefantino]

maybe Lemond just does not care about his business/relationship with Trek

he detonated the bomb, during the Royd Landis case.

seems to me he is cleaning house..........purging all bad memories.

he will do fine.

his hell has past.

jmo

(he suckerpunched trek...............BIG TIME) and the result is predictable.

hope he still rides.
Yep. Sage words.

[saab2000]

“If” it is a sign of corporate integrity – or lack thereof -- it may be reflected at some level in product warranty.
I'm not buying a Trek so this doesn't affect me at all.

Corporate Integrity is like jumbo shrimp........

[sailorboy]

[QUOTE=swoop]i like lemond more than trek in terms of .. what's it called... a q rating?
so... trek and lance can go eff off.... i hope greg finds a new home for his name and makes some nice bikes out of corn husks or some such.
maybe merlin will grab him and relive the glory moments....

QUOTE]
and how about Calfee for the carbon, Della Santa for steel and bring back those old logos and decals and what not...

[palincss]

I love the powerpoint slideshow on trek's site:
http://www.trekbikes.com/pdf/media/en/Trek_PPT_FINAL.pdf

Is it really a loss anyway? The steel cyclocross stuff was interesting (in that is was unique for your dealer to have a steel cx bike to test ride) but for the most part Lemond just slapped his label on trek designed bikes, kind of like hampsten cycles except with less taste.

Hampsten Cycles puts its labels on Trek-designed bikes? Really? I admit, I don't know that much about the Trek line, but honestly I don't see anything in their lineup that looks even remotely like the Strada Bianca, never mind the Tournesols. Can you provide something specific, some kind of documentation or evidence to support that statement?

Or have I completely misunderstood your meaning?

[capybaras]

Go for it, your only 34 posts in. Not a big deal to come back as your dog.

JG

+1

[paczki]

+1

GL is a Moreon!

Nioce!

[capybaras]

Once they started proudly calling themselves "cheeseheads" something like this was just a matter of time.

[14max]

*

[mflaherty37]

Important Announcement from Trek President John Burke
April 8, 2008

Additionally, in 2008 you can look forward to seeing an exciting new Armstrong Stem equipped with patented needle storage compartment. The compartment will store up to 25mils of your preferred doping solution. Act by July 31st and participating Trek stores will be offering a $10 Brystol Myers Squib rebate coupon with your purchase of a qualifying Trek bike with Armstrong Stem.

Thank you for your business,

Best Regards,

John Burke

[BBB]

The whole thing is pretty sad. The law suits may as well be LeMond v Armstrong or visa versa instead of corporates conducting litigation vicariously for two people who have a beef with each other. The solution to the problem should have been Armstrong suing LeMond personally a few years back on account of the various comments or implications LeMond made very vocally in the media. That he didn't is very telling. Trek seemingly have made a rod for their own back by mediating between the two parties when the essence of Trek's complaint seems to be that LeMond bashed Armstrong in the press and this in turn impacted on the Trek brand (evidenced apparently by those anonymous e-mails). While there may have been sound commercial reasons for intervening at the time, the end result is a not so subtle personality dispute cloaked in corporate attire.

[BumbleBeeDave]

That he didn't is very telling.

GL has money and reputation and friends. He's not someone who Armstrong could bully or overwhelm with weight of lawyers like the other "little people" that LA could intimidate.

BBD

[e-RICHIE]

GL has money and reputation and friends. He's not someone who Armstrong could bully or overwhelm with weight of lawyers like the other "little people" that LA could intimidate.

BBD
cache this -
bbd gets it atmo.

[BBB]

That's right. And the recently spate of sports stars being convicted for lying under oath must also be a worry to Armstrong. LeMond's lawyers were smart enough to make reference to these recent events in his Court documents.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . to stay hitched to the Armstrong wagon, it still makes me wonder why on earth they DON'T have a line of "Armstrong" bikes by now. It's just such an obvious thing to do for them. Are they hedging their bets as far as what may come out about Armstrong in exactly a case like this?

BBD

[catulle]

I'd guess Greg has enough money and things to do to be too interested in having a line of bicycles. However, I'm sure he could come up with bicycles much better than what Trek has being building for him. At least he should be able to, atmo.

[mjb266]

I think will be sending rolls of black electrical tape to dealers and sponsored teams soon. Can't see the corporate guys willing to see that name in the press at any cost. It sort of reminds me of how SBI went after Scott by threatening dealers that they'd pull the whole freaking line if they saw a Scott displayed in the same place as a Specialized.

I'm calling it now...big stickers over every sponsored LeMond with either Bontrager or Trek emblazoned on the tubes.

Can't imagine they'd let the tooling and molds for the carbon Lemonds die either...gonna rebadge them as well.

I knew some shops/employees that got on Trek's bad side and it wasn't pretty. Burke's got millions upon millions.

[NickD]

Wonder if they were discussing downhill shimmy?




[97CSI]

When any of you (or anyone else) offers up the proof on LA, then I'll agree that GL was/is right. Until then, GL remains just another retired athlete who thinks the fact that he has some money makes him correct about most all things. Typical case of the 'nouveau riche-itis'. Not limited to athletes, of course.

Trek did the right thing. Good on you, John Burke.

[jerk]

greg lemond is a friend of mine and the man is not a liar. he's looking out for the interests of kids, american kids, being sent to slaughter over in europe. kids who come back with addiction issues, health issues, tattoos on their face issues and all the rest....he is appalled that the face of american cycling is a client of dr. ferraris and he's prepared to speak up about it....the cabal around armstrong and the spings are a bunch of self-serving douchebags who do not care about the sport or the health of the riders.

trek needed him to shut the hell up and he wouldn't.

greg is trying to save bike racing. trek is trying to grow bike riding and sell bicycles. these things are diametrically opposed.

trek needs lance, america needs larger than life heroes. american bike racers need a french style national federation that will protect and nurture them. how many french larger than life heroes are there?

greg is my pal. so's john burke. its a ****ty situation.

jerk

[93legendti]

GL has money and reputation and friends. He's not someone who Armstrong could bully or overwhelm with weight of lawyers like the other "little people" that LA could intimidate.

BBD

But Dave, people here attacked Lance a few years back for being TOO litigious and a bully (as I recall he won all of his lawsuits). When he DOES NOT sue, he gets zero credit. Seems like a lose- lose situation in the eyes of his critics here.

Supposing your reasoning is correct, it would not account for his suit against the insurance company for $5 million, which he settled for $7.5 million. I think insurance companies have some pretty deep pockets. Lance couldn't bully or overwhelm an insurance company.

Putting aside prejudice and bias, this was a case of GL being a dumb- a**. Can anyone REALLY think Trek would enjoy Greg attacking Lance repeatedly? What's that line: "don't rock the boat when you're sitting in it"; "don't try to prove absolutely what you don't have to prove positively"; or "there's no "I" in team"? Greg should have controlled his mouth if he wanted to stay with Trek.

[Big Dan]

But Dave, people here attacked Lance a few years back for being TOO litigious and a bully (as I recall he won all of his lawsuits). When he DOES NOT sue, he gets zero credit. Seems like a lose- lose situation in the eyes of his critics here.

Supposing your reasoning is correct, it would not account for his suit against the insurance company for $5 million, which he settled for $7.5 million. I think insurance companies have some pretty deep pockets. Lance couldn't bully or overwhelm an insurance company.

Putting aside prejudice and bias, this was a case of GL being a dumb- a**. Can anyone REALLY think Trek would enjoy Greg attacking Lance repeatedly? What's that line: "don't rock the boat when you're sitting in it"; "don't try to prove absolutely what you don't have to prove positively"; or "there's no "I" in team"? Greg should have controlled his mouth if he wanted to stay with Trek.

Putting aside bias? Which ones? yours?
Please you are a known LA, GH, Disco, Postal lover....

[fiamme red]

greg lemond is a friend of mine and the man is not a liar. he's looking out for the interests of kids, american kids, being sent to slaughter over in europe. kids who come back with addiction issues, health issues, tattoos on their face issues and all the rest....he is appalled that the face of american cycling is a client of dr. ferraris and he's prepared to speak up about it....the cabal around armstrong and the spings are a bunch of self-serving douchebags who do not care about the sport or the health of the riders.Hmmm... I can just see it: "Stolen Underground, presented by LeMond Bicycles."

http://su13.us/

JOIN STOLEN UNDERGROUND HERE!

New Stolen Underground Memebership Policy!

All members must fill out this membership form and submit a headshot wearing a Stolen Underground T-Shirt or Jersey. If you do not have a headshot wearing SU apparel you must be wearing a black t-shirt. You will not be allowed into SU until you have sent us this information and we have posted your profile. NO EXCEPTIONS. Stolen Underground is now charging an annual membership fee of $99.95 to raise money for the cause. If you do not wish to pay this annual membership fee you will not be allowed into Stolen Underground's member area. Stolen Underground is a private club, anyone may purchase a uniform but only members will be allowed into the underground. If you have any questions please contact us

[e-RICHIE]

greg lemond is a friend of mine and the man is not a liar. he's looking out for the interests of kids, american kids, being sent to slaughter over in europe. kids who come back with addiction issues, health issues, tattoos on their face issues and all the rest....he is appalled that the face of american cycling is a client of dr. ferraris and he's prepared to speak up about it....the cabal around armstrong and the spings are a bunch of self-serving douchebags who do not care about the sport or the health of the riders.

trek needed him to shut the hell up and he wouldn't.

greg is trying to save bike racing. trek is trying to grow bike riding and sell bicycles. these things are diametrically opposed.

trek needs lance, america needs larger than life heroes. american bike racers need a french style national federation that will protect and nurture them. how many french larger than life heroes are there?

greg is my pal. so's john burke. its a ****ty situation.

jerk
Route128pedia 3.18 atmo -

[jchasse]

greg lemond is a friend of mine and the man is not a liar. he's looking out for the interests of kids, american kids, being sent to slaughter over in europe. kids who come back with addiction issues, health issues, tattoos on their face issues and all the rest....he is appalled that the face of american cycling is a client of dr. ferraris and he's prepared to speak up about it....the cabal around armstrong and the spings are a bunch of self-serving douchebags who do not care about the sport or the health of the riders.

trek needed him to shut the hell up and he wouldn't.

greg is trying to save bike racing. trek is trying to grow bike riding and sell bicycles. these things are diametrically opposed.

trek needs lance, america needs larger than life heroes. american bike racers need a french style national federation that will protect and nurture them. how many french larger than life heroes are there?

greg is my pal. so's john burke. its a ****ty situation.

jerk

You could be right. About all of it.

But neither one of your pals is making himself look good to the public, or to lovers of cycling, right now. Which in both cases disserves their respective intent.

[paczki]

When any of you (or anyone else) offers up the proof on LA, then I'll agree that GL was/is right. Until then, GL remains just another retired athlete who thinks the fact that he has some money makes him correct about most all things. Typical case of the 'nouveau riche-itis'. Not limited to athletes, of course.

Trek did the right thing. Good on you, John Burke.

I'm not a hater, but just curious-- what do you think Dr. Ferrari does?

[Grant McLean]

i wonder trek didn't have the stones to
do this when dad burke was alive atmo.

BINGO.

It was Dick Burke's era at Trek that had the relationship with Greg.
Burke Sr. died 3 weeks ago, this Trek letter has been sitting in John's desk
waiting until the time he could make this move.

-g

[itsalldark]

TREK=evil empire

[fiamme red]

Interesting perspective from a Trek dealer:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/843b9daf1ce61afb

[Fivethumbs]

The word on the street is that Cheryl Crow just offered GL a lifetime supply of free concert tickets. Oh, and Trek doesn't need Lemond. Just think how much awesome publicity they will be getting as their bikes are seen being ridden in the Tour de France....oh...wait...

[wasfast]

. . . to stay hitched to the Armstrong wagon, it still makes me wonder why on earth they DON'T have a line of "Armstrong" bikes by now. It's just such an obvious thing to do for them. Are they hedging their bets as far as what may come out about Armstrong in exactly a case like this?

BBD

Perhaps they are just waiting to launch them? With the Lemond name off their roster, and LA opening his store, it could very well be happening. Stay tuned to see....

[bushpig]

It is worth reading the Trek complaint. It has some funny bits, but the underlying seems to be (a) Lemond bikes weren't selling and Greg used the threat of a lawsuit twice to keep Trek from pulling the plug - it worked the first time and by the second time Trek said forget it and (b) Greg had a pretty massive business going on reselling bikes he got with his discount - the number in the complaint is $2.5 million. Greg's complaint seems pretty weak since it focuses on a he said she said between himself and LA. Just my $.02

[jeffg]

That's why Greg's been riding that Look 585 everytime I see him ...

[WickedWheels]

greg lemond is a friend of mine and the man is not a liar. he's looking out for the interests of kids, american kids, being sent to slaughter over in europe. kids who come back with addiction issues, health issues, tattoos on their face issues and all the rest....he is appalled that the face of american cycling is a client of dr. ferraris and he's prepared to speak up about it....the cabal around armstrong and the spings are a bunch of self-serving douchebags who do not care about the sport or the health of the riders.

trek needed him to shut the hell up and he wouldn't.

greg is trying to save bike racing. trek is trying to grow bike riding and sell bicycles. these things are diametrically opposed.

trek needs lance, america needs larger than life heroes. american bike racers need a french style national federation that will protect and nurture them. how many french larger than life heroes are there?

greg is my pal. so's john burke. its a ****ty situation.

jerk

I agree. I've met Greg a number of times and everything he's had to say to me about doping has been very legitimate. I'm behind the guy 100%.

I've met Lance briefly and didn't walk away with a great impression. Many others have said that he's a d!ck.

The way these two conduct themselves outside of this scandal is very telling about who they are.

I hope everything works out for Greg. If he fires up a line I'd be very happy to rep them.

[M.Sommers]

This will further enhance LeMond's martyrdom he so covets while we'll see the typical Lance-look as Armstrong will handle this topic with the posture of an experienced politician.

Lance Vs. LeMond
LeMond Vs. Doping

Doping and Lance win as it goes to the judge's scorecards...

"Ummmmmmm, boy." Watch, listen to LA obfuscate from 34 seconds all the way till 49 seconds or even till 1:09... :rolleyes: worth watching here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG4odJP-Zuw

His voice in a higher pitch while blinking = liar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAGX3Z2wuaE&feature=related

Cost LeMond a source of income, his TREK contract?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9u3AQNI9FI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDAoqK9SiC0


LeMond can always do a sequel...to his Taco Bell commercial :D :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oon45kkLzsQ



.

[jeffg]

greg lemond is a friend of mine and the man is not a liar. he's looking out for the interests of kids, american kids, being sent to slaughter over in europe. kids who come back with addiction issues, health issues, tattoos on their face issues and all the rest....he is appalled that the face of american cycling is a client of dr. ferraris and he's prepared to speak up about it....the cabal around armstrong and the spings are a bunch of self-serving douchebags who do not care about the sport or the health of the riders.

trek needed him to shut the hell up and he wouldn't.

greg is trying to save bike racing. trek is trying to grow bike riding and sell bicycles. these things are diametrically opposed.

trek needs lance, america needs larger than life heroes. american bike racers need a french style national federation that will protect and nurture them. how many french larger than life heroes are there?

greg is my pal. so's john burke. its a ****ty situation.

jerk


Les Bleus of the 98 soccer world cup?

Anyway, I may be missing this, but the fact is most of us do not know either of these guys.

Anyone who says Lance is a d*** and Greg is a good guy or vice versa just seems naive to me.

Neither of these guys are or will ever be my friend but Greg seems to be a nice enough guy and to see Lance with cancer victims is to be convinced of the redemptive quality of his experience.

They are also type A alpha males vying for superiority and they each show their ugly side.

Nobody is trying to save cycling or the world as far as I see it ...

[Kane]

[QUOTE=sjbraun
Greg has no evidence to support his insinuations that LA doped, aside from his repetition of others allegations. And GL's claims of purity don't convince me either. Does anyone have a blood or urine sample from GL's past that could prove his claim that he raced clean? [/QUOTE]

All racers know who dopes and who doesn't dope. (some say, "ALL RACERS DOPE!"). It is suspicious that Dr. Ferrari was with lance to nearly the end of his career. I heard from a friend, that the English female massage therapist carried the team's drugs during the racing season.

What we do know is that bike racers have been taking drugs since the fifties. Jacque Antequil (sp?), (a notorious 'speed' user who won the Tour 4 times between 1956-1962), was asked about the drug crisis in bicycling during the 1968 Tour de France. He was an announcer at the time. His response was that it would be pretty boring if everyone was going 15 MPH during the race!

Cheers and Jeers,

Kane

[mcteague]

All the GL bashing drives me crazy. I have read most of what Greg has said over the years and he never claimed to be the only clean athlete or that he would have won every tour. Would he have won more if he was not shot, or took EPO?, most likely. How many people who trash him have any idea of what really goes on at the top of pro cycling? So much of what he has said has been grossly distorted. I'm sure he could have been more diplomatic at times, it most likely would have helped him economically, but he comes across as too honest for that.

Tim McTeague

[93legendti]

All the GL bashing drives me crazy. I have read most of what Greg has said over the years and he never claimed to be the only clean athlete or that he would have won every tour. Would he have won more if he was not shot, or took EPO?, most likely. How many people who trash him have any idea of what really goes on at the top of pro cycling? So much of what he has said has been grossly distorted. I'm sure he could have been more diplomatic at times, it most likely would have helped him economically, but he comes across as too honest for that.

Tim McTeague

Any guy who fires his dad is ok in my book.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_LeMond

LeMond clarifies Armstrong criticisms
Last Updated: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 | 8:00 PM ET
CBC Sports
Greg LeMond issued an apology to fellow American cyclist Lance Armstrong on Tuesday, claiming his critical remarks on Armstrong's association with an Italian doctor who has been linked to drug use were taken out of context.
"I sincerely regret that some of my remarks ... seemed to question the veracity of Lance's performances," LeMond said in a statement.

"I want to be clear that I believe Lance to be a great champion and I do not believe, in any way, that he has ever used any performance-enhancing substances. I believe his performances are the result of the same hard work, dedication and focus that were mine 10 years ago," LeMond said.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2001/08/14/lemond010814.html

greg lemond is a friend of mine and the man is not a liar...greg is my pal...jerk

[DfCas]

Maybe Lemond should talk to Cervelo.Back in 2001,a chain in California went bankrupt.Trek was the primary creditor,and repo'ed everything in the stores,including a bunch of Cervelos that were not paid for. I guess Trek needed the money...


http://www.allbusiness.com/retail-trade/miscellaneous-retail-miscellaneous/4153922-1.html

[goldyjackson]

All the GL bashing drives me crazy. I have read most of what Greg has said over the years and he never claimed to be the only clean athlete or that he would have won every tour. Would he have won more if he was not shot, or took EPO?, most likely. How many people who trash him have any idea of what really goes on at the top of pro cycling? So much of what he has said has been grossly distorted. I'm sure he could have been more diplomatic at times, it most likely would have helped him economically, but he comes across as too honest for that.

Tim McTeague

Word.

[GoJavs]

I met both briefly in the '90s. LeMond was engaging and funny. Lance was an idiot. Plain and simple.

[Fixed]

bro who cares unless you sell em they are a dime a dozen clones of every other bike mag. imho

[M.Sommers]

Any guy who fires his dad is ok in my book.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_LeMond

LeMond clarifies Armstrong criticisms
Last Updated: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 | 8:00 PM ET
CBC Sports
Greg LeMond issued an apology to fellow American cyclist Lance Armstrong on Tuesday, claiming his critical remarks on Armstrong's association with an Italian doctor who has been linked to drug use were taken out of context.
"I sincerely regret that some of my remarks ... seemed to question the veracity of Lance's performances," LeMond said in a statement.

"I want to be clear that I believe Lance to be a great champion and I do not believe, in any way, that he has ever used any performance-enhancing substances. I believe his performances are the result of the same hard work, dedication and focus that were mine 10 years ago," LeMond said.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2001/08/14/lemond010814.html

In context. Read 'From Lance to Landis' by David Walsh and you'll learn/understand why Greg LeMond issued that statement above. Pages 178-191, 'LeMond feels the heat'.

The above 'apology' was offered based on threats from Lance Armstrong, his attorneys, but mainly John Burke of TREK.

[93legendti]

Lemond hails 'best ever Tour', praises 'clean' Landis

Jul 24 03:16 PM US/Eastern


American cycling legend Greg Lemond hailed compatriot Floyd Landis's victory in the Tour de France, describing this year's edition of the race as "the best of all time.".
Lemond, a three-time Tour winner with victories in 1986, 1989 and 1990, said the drugs scandal which saw dozens of riders kicked out of the peloton before the race began had levelled the field and allowed a "clean" Landis to win.
"It was an incredible Tour," said Lemond. "The best of all time. It was like the 1980s where you had different guys dominating on different days. We haven't seen that sort of competition for years."

Lemond congratulated Tour organisers on their decision to bar teams implicated in the Spanish drug scandal from the race.

Among the riders to be prevented from taking part were Germany's Jan Ullrich and Italy's Ivan Basso, two of the riders among the favourites for the crown.

"I'm happy that Ullrich and Basso weren't allowed in," Lemond said. "Suddenly the guys in the background, guys who were probably doubting their own ability to be competitive, were able to come to the fore. That's very encouraging," he said.

Lemond had nothing but praise for Landis, the surprise winner of tour's yellow jersey. "He was one of my favourites before the race. He's clean and what's more, he's a great guy," he added.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=060724191235.mmwevu5p&show_article=1

greg lemond is a friend of mine and the man is not a liar...greg is my pal...jerk

[don'TreadOnMe]

"Moreover, Armstrong is also part owner of the Trek Bicycle Corporation and as such, has a vested interest in making sure it churns out quality product with which he can be proud to associate himself."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2007/features/trek_madone_launch07

[GoJavs]

Adam - why are you rehashing ol'junk? Everyone knows eventually Landis was found to have cheated and everyone had to re-adjust their opinions of Landis' performance. If I recall, Eddy Merckx was in love with Landis too at the time.



Lemond hails 'best ever Tour', praises 'clean' Landis

Jul 24 03:16 PM US/Eastern


American cycling legend Greg Lemond hailed compatriot Floyd Landis's victory in the Tour de France, describing this year's edition of the race as "the best of all time.".
Lemond, a three-time Tour winner with victories in 1986, 1989 and 1990, said the drugs scandal which saw dozens of riders kicked out of the peloton before the race began had levelled the field and allowed a "clean" Landis to win.
"It was an incredible Tour," said Lemond. "The best of all time. It was like the 1980s where you had different guys dominating on different days. We haven't seen that sort of competition for years."

Lemond congratulated Tour organisers on their decision to bar teams implicated in the Spanish drug scandal from the race.

Among the riders to be prevented from taking part were Germany's Jan Ullrich and Italy's Ivan Basso, two of the riders among the favourites for the crown.

"I'm happy that Ullrich and Basso weren't allowed in," Lemond said. "Suddenly the guys in the background, guys who were probably doubting their own ability to be competitive, were able to come to the fore. That's very encouraging," he said.

Lemond had nothing but praise for Landis, the surprise winner of tour's yellow jersey. "He was one of my favourites before the race. He's clean and what's more, he's a great guy," he added.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=060724191235.mmwevu5p&show_article=1

[LegendRider]

My hasty email to Trek yesterday:

My first road bike was a 1991 Trek 2300. I've always held Trek in high esteem for its contributions to cycling in the US.

However, my opinion of Trek has hit rock bottom with regard to your treatment of Greg LeMond. He may have been clumsy in his choice of words, but you know as well as all avid fans of procycling that Armstrong's (easy) wins against proven doped competition are completely untenable. The weight of the evidence is fully against him (IM conversations, David Walsh, Stephen Swart, Emma O'Reilly, etc.).

Furthermore, Greg is trying to clean up the sport and Lance continues to obfuscate and deny. Yet, you support Lance the bully (think Bassons and Simeoni), not Greg. It's wrong.

I will no longer purchase Trek products.

[Big Dan]

I can see 93 writing emails to Trek wearing his USPS/Disco pj's....
The guy is truly in love with all of them. Greg was trying to break his heart.

:p

[93legendti]

Adam - why are you rehashing ol'junk? Everyone knows eventually Landis was found to have cheated and everyone had to re-adjust their opinions of Landis' performance. If I recall, Eddy Merckx was in love with Landis too at the time.

For the same reason you do.

I met both briefly in the '90s. LeMond was engaging and funny. Lance was an idiot. Plain and simple.

[97CSI]

My hasty email to Trek yesterday:

I've always repected the quality of your products. If I ever turn to a 'plastic' bike, it would be a Madone. I've always held Trek in high esteem for its contributions to cycling.

However, my opinion of Trek has been raised by your refusal to allow yourselves to be dictated to by Greg LeMond. He has been incredibly clumsy in his choice of words, but you know as well as all avid fans of procycling that Armstrong's wins in the TdF are completely awesome. The weight of the evidence (actual proof - this is, afterall, the USA) is fully in support of his claim of having never used PEDs. This in the face of the lame allegations from folks such as the Andreus, David Walsh, Stephen Swart, Emma O'Reilly, etc.

Furthermore, Greg is doing his best to drag down everyone who has ever won the TdF other than himself. Thanks you for continuing to support Lance and cycling, in general. Keep up the good work!!

I will purchase Trek products as long as you continue to support cycling and other excellent products and service.

Thank you.

[Tom]

These threads are great. Thanks for the laughs.

[e-RICHIE]

My hasty email to Trek yesterday:

My first road bike was a 1991 Trek 2300. I've always held Trek in high esteem for its contributions to cycling in the US.

However, my opinion of Trek has hit rock bottom with regard to your treatment of Greg LeMond. He may have been clumsy in his choice of words, but you know as well as all avid fans of procycling that Armstrong's (easy) wins against proven doped competition are completely untenable. The weight of the evidence is fully against him (IM conversations, David Walsh, Stephen Swart, Emma O'Reilly, etc.).

Furthermore, Greg is trying to clean up the sport and Lance continues to obfuscate and deny. Yet, you support Lance the bully (think Bassons and Simeoni), not Greg. It's wrong.

I will no longer purchase Trek products.

My hasty email to Trek yesterday:

I've always repected the quality of your products. If I ever turn to a 'plastic' bike, it would be a Madone. I've always held Trek in high esteem for its contributions to cycling.

However, my opinion of Trek has been raised by your refusal to allow yourselves to be dictated to by Greg LeMond. He has been incredibly clumsy in his choice of words, but you know as well as all avid fans of procycling that Armstrong's wins in the TdF are completely awesome. The weight of the evidence (actual proof - this is, afterall, the USA) is fully in support of his claim of having never used PEDs. This in the face of the lame allegations from folks such as the Andreus, David Walsh, Stephen Swart, Emma O'Reilly, etc.

Furthermore, Greg is doing his best to drag down everyone who has ever won the TdF other than himself. Thanks you for continuing to support Lance and cycling, in general. Keep up the good work!!

I will purchase Trek products as long as you continue to support cycling and other excellent products and service.

Thank you.
we need a tie breaker atmo -
i'm with the gentleman from the peachtree statemo.

[chrisroph]

guys, its just business meaning its all about money. gl likes the contract but gl no longer fits into trek's plans. what makes it newsworthy for us is that the beef allegedly revolves around gl's statements about la.

what cracks me up is that both complaints are absolutely filled with a bunch of hearsay gibberish like excerpts from newspaper articles and walsh's book. the complaints read more like press releases than complaints. these sources of "facts" are so inherently unreliable that the articles and the book will never be admissable. to prove the underlying facts, the lawyers will have to backtrack to the actual sources and put those folks on the stand. this could costs millions in fees and costs.

my money is on a settlement involving trek paying some $$$ to gl and gl taking his brand elsewhere. of course, the settlement will probably be confidential. i don't think that la is going to want these issues litigated. he will probably urge trek to make this go away.

trek filed because gl served it with his state court complaint. trek wanted to file first so it could argue that its lawsuit was first in time and should go forward while the one initiated by gl should be stayed. this is all about venue shopping and being the plaintiff.

[93legendti]

we need a tie breaker atmo -
i'm with the gentleman from the peachtree statemo.


My first road bike was a 1991 Trek 2300. I've always held Trek in high esteem for its contributions to cycling in the US.

I will purchase Trek products as long as you continue to support cycling and other excellent products and service.

Thank you.

How about that?

[M.Sommers]

I think chubby dudes (aka consumers) who ride TREK have no say, so sway in the opinions or moves within TREK; this fait accompli of Greg Lemond was thrown at him the moment he opened his mouth. And note folks...he opened his mouth and spoke the truth. Lance asks us to believe? I am a huge Lance fan on the bike, but dude, just what I am supposed to believe in? Huh? That when a man of Lemond's character speaks the truth, he gets fired?

Lemond will sue.
Lance will smile.
You get a free balloon when you buy a TREK.
Lemond was banned for speaking the truth.
Free Greg.
Just believe, Lance or:
Just believe Lance...I prefer the former.




.

[swoop]

i'd party with either dude.

[GoJavs]

For the same reason you do.

Not the same, Adam, not the same.

In my post, I gave my opinion of MY personal encounter with both men.
In your post, you are posting comments by LeMond BEFORE Landis turned out to be a fraud.

Listen - we all know you adore Lance. You've kept it quiet for the last year or so but now you are back. And that means I'm blocking you again and forgetting about ya! See ya!

[J.Greene]

Free Greg.


Free Viper

Free the banned words

JG

[97CSI]

My first road bike was a 1991 Trek 2300. I've always held Trek in high esteem for its contributions to cycling in the US.

I will purchase Trek products as long as you continue to support cycling and other excellent products and service.

Thank you.

How about that?Works for me. :)

[sspielman]

Ive never bought anything from Trek...or Bontrager or any of the other captive brands, so I doubt that if I threaten to not purchase anything as a result of the LeMond ordeal that it will leave them quaking...I have always found their products to be uninspired and boring to be blunt. Greg will be better off to not be associated with them...I hope that he does well (financially) with his lawsuit.

[M.Sommers]

I have a floor pump. Gotta find it. I think it's a TREK. Could be Park. If it's TREK, I'll put it in Classifieds for free. It has cooties. Stay tuned.

[BumbleBeeDave]

guys, its just business meaning its all about money. gl likes the contract but gl no longer fits into trek's plans. what makes it newsworthy for us is that the beef allegedly revolves around gl's statements about la.

what cracks me up is that both complaints are absolutely filled with a bunch of hearsay gibberish like excerpts from newspaper articles and walsh's book. the complaints read more like press releases than complaints. these sources of "facts" are so inherently unreliable that the articles and the book will never be admissable. to prove the underlying facts, the lawyers will have to backtrack to the actual sources and put those folks on the stand. this could costs millions in fees and costs.

my money is on a settlement involving trek paying some $$$ to gl and gl taking his brand elsewhere. of course, the settlement will probably be confidential. i don't think that la is going to want these issues litigated. he will probably urge trek to make this go away.

trek filed because gl served it with his state court complaint. trek wanted to file first so it could argue that its lawsuit was first in time and should go forward while the one initiated by gl should be stayed. this is all about venue shopping and being the plaintiff.

. . . speaks sooth. +1 . . .

You will see Trek's Lemond Min/Max bikes out next year with Klein on the downtube. The resto this is not really worth arguing about any more, since none of the people here are likely to have their opinions swayed by anything in this thread.

BBD

[deechee]

I think most of us have jobs that would have us fired if we started badmouthing an investor/sponsor repeatedly. Its not about who's right, its about being sensible. Throwing away a multi-million dollar deal seems a bit loony to me, even if you are rich. Then again, I'm not.

[gt6267a]

$1 says trek settles the case and dumps the lemond thing completely. the models made with the current molds / jigs will be branded LIVESTRONG on the downtube and painted yellow. they will give some % of the sales proceeds to LAF and forget the whole lemond is not part of our family thing ever happened.

then, they will retool the lemond equipment for some new special custom OMG can't believe what i am seeing on the downtube, ARMYSTRONG with camo painted bikes sponsored by the us army with lance as the spokesman. that or they will be kleins.

[93legendti]

Works for me. :)

How about this form letter:


My first road bike was a __________. I've always held Trek in low/high (pick one) esteem.

I will always/never (pick one) purchase Trek products.

Thank you.

[coylifut]

$1 says trek settles the case and dumps the lemond thing completely. the models made with the current molds / jigs will be branded LIVESTRONG on the downtube and painted yellow. they will give some % of the sales proceeds to LAF and forget the whole lemond is not part of our family thing ever happened.

then, they will retool the lemond equipment for some new special custom OMG can't believe what i am seeing on the downtube, ARMYSTRONG with camo painted bikes sponsored by the us army with lance as the spokesman. that or they will be kleins.

that's essentially what Nike did with the 10/2. The heavy lifting had already been done with the bracelets that they did away with it and went full-on Live Strong. Heard it from the brand managers mouth.

[avalonracing]

How about this form letter:


My first road bike was a __________. I've always held Trek in low/high (pick one) esteem.

I will always/never (pick one) purchase Trek products.

Thank you.


don't forget:
I think Lemond/Armstrong (pick one) is the greatest American Cyclist.

[93legendti]

don't forget:
I think Lemond/Armstrong (pick one) is the greatest American Cyclist.

Excellent point:

My first road bike was a __________. I've always held Trek in low/high (pick one) esteem.
I think Lemond/Armstrong (pick one) is the greatest American Cyclist.
I will always/never (pick one) purchase Trek products.

Thank you.

[michael white]

I met them both in the 90's. Britney was engaging and funny in person. K-Fed was a moron.

best,
mw

[J.Greene]

I met them both in the 90's. Britney was engaging and funny in person. K-Fed was a moron.
best,
mw

Amazing how things change. Now they're both morons.

JG

[Dino]

Dear Trek,
So long as you continue to sponsor and/or support Hillary / Obama (pick one), I will continue to/ never again (pick one) buy your products.

Oh, and as for supporting/ sponsoring cyclists, you should stop doing that. It seems to divide the people.


Sincereley,
_____________

[LegendRider]

Revised email to Trek.

Dear Trek,

I plan to buy a new Madone to show my solidarity with Trek for its support of Lance Armstrong despite the following:

- His blood samples from the 1999 Tour showed traces of EPO (before there was an approved test).
- He crushed competition proven to have doped (Pantani, Ullrich) with a product (EPO) that some estimate provides an additional 40 watts of power at threshold. Despite this massive disadvantage, he never lost.
- A former teammate with NOTHING to gain, Stephen Swart, swears Lance doped on Motorola.
- A former teammate, Frankie Andreu, testified under oath that Lance told doctors he had taken PEDs.
- A former soigneur claims she was asked to dispose of drug waste, cover needles holes with make-up, etc.
- Actovegin, a legal but dubious drug, was found in his team's trash dumped miles from the team's hotel.
- He hid his relationship with a doping doctor, Michele Ferrari, until he was forced to acknowledge it by press accounts.
- His most valuable teammates have either admitted or been found guilty of doping (Andreu, Hamilton, Landis).
- A private conversation between two former teammates (Vaughters, Andreu) outlines a plausible methodology for blood doping.
- His climbing went from solid to the best in the world despite not having lost weight (as commonly suggested) according to documents provided by Dr. Coyle, an exercise physiologist (see Walsh's book for proof).

Yes, despite all of the above, I remain convinced Lance won because he's a superior specimen both mentally and physically. I'm glad Trek feels the same way.

[e-RICHIE]

Revised email to Trek.

Dear Trek,

I plan to buy a new Madone to show my solidarity with Trek for its support of Lance Armstrong despite the following:

- His blood samples from the 1999 Tour showed traces of EPO (before there was an approved test).
- He crushed competition proven to have doped (Pantani, Ullrich) with a product (EPO) that some estimate provides an additional 40 watts of power at threshold. Despite this massive disadvantage, he never lost.
- A former teammate with NOTHING to gain, Stephen Swart, swears Lance doped on Motorola.
- A former teammate, Frankie Andreu, testified under oath that Lance told doctors he had taken PEDs.
- A former soigneur claims she was asked to dispose of drug waste, cover needles holes with make-up, etc.
- Actovegin, a legal but dubious drug, was found in his team's trash dumped miles from the team's hotel.
- He hid his relationship with a doping doctor, Michele Ferrari, until he was forced to acknowledge it by press accounts.
- His most valuable teammates have either admitted or been found guilty of doping (Andreu, Hamilton, Landis).
- A private conversation between two former teammates (Vaughters, Andreu) outlines a plausible methodology for blood doping.
- His climbing went from solid to the best in the world despite not having lost weight (as commonly suggested) according to documents provided by Dr. Coyle, an exercise physiologist (see Walsh's book for proof).

Yes, despite all of the above, I remain convinced Lance won because he's a superior specimen both mentally and physically. I'm glad Trek feels the same way.
lay some simeoni guilt on them toomo atmo.

[LegendRider]

Revised email to Trek.

Dear Trek,

I plan to buy a new Madone to show my solidarity with Trek for its support of Lance Armstrong despite the following:

- His blood samples from the 1999 Tour showed traces of EPO (before there was an approved test).
- He crushed competition proven to have doped (Pantani, Ullrich) with a product (EPO) that some estimate provides an additional 40 watts of power at threshold. Despite this massive disadvantage, he never lost.
- A former teammate with NOTHING to gain, Stephen Swart, swears Lance doped on Motorola.
- A former teammate, Frankie Andreu, testified under oath that Lance told doctors he had taken PEDs.
- A former soigneur claims she was asked to dispose of drug waste, cover needles holes with make-up, etc.
- Actovegin, a legal but dubious drug, was found in his team's trash dumped miles from the team's hotel.
- He hid his relationship with a doping doctor, Michele Ferrari, until he was forced to acknowledge it by press accounts.
- His most valuable teammates have either admitted or been found guilty of doping (Andreu, Hamilton, Landis).
- A private conversation between two former teammates (Vaughters, Andreu) outlines a plausible methodology for blood doping.
- His climbing went from solid to the best in the world despite not having lost weight (as commonly suggested) according to documents provided by Dr. Coyle, an exercise physiologist (see Walsh's book for proof).

Yes, despite all of the above, I remain convinced Lance won because he's a superior specimen both mentally and physically. I'm glad Trek feels the same way.

PS - As you can see, I believe in grand conspiracy theories. So, I wanted to warn you that a international cabal of Jewish framebuilders led by Richard Sachs and Ben Serotta plan to takeover Trek in the very near future.

[e-RICHIE]

PS - As you can see, I beleive in grand conspiracy theories. So, I wanted to warn you that a international cabal of Jewish framebuilders led by Richard Sachs and Ben Serotta plan to takeover Trek in the very near future.
screw them - we were here first. i remember when they started.

at all the trade shows their sliderule goons would stare at our frames
and ask how do you measure that (when getting the caliper distances
correct) and what machine do you use for this (to make the stays ovalized
for c'ring clearance). oh yeah.

ps we're not as old as pucci atmo, but we do have pioneer status.

[Kirk Pacenti]

PS - As you can see, I beleive in grand conspiracy theories. So, I wanted to warn you that a international cabal of Jewish framebuilders led by Richard Sachs and Ben Serotta plan to takeover Trek in the very near future.

Don't forgetmo Bruce Gordon and David Bohmo! :p

[gt6267a]

LegendRider, you forgot my favorite tidbit from the book. That when he had cancer and should have tested positive at doping controls for beta-hCG well outside of the protocols in 1996, he never tested positive.

[Lifelover]

I think most of us have jobs that would have us fired if we started badmouthing an investor/sponsor repeatedly. Its not about who's right, its about being sensible. Throwing away a multi-million dollar deal seems a bit loony to me, even if you are rich. Then again, I'm not.


What about all the Kids that GL is saving? He is sacrificing for the KIDS!

[M.Sommers]

What about all the Kids that GL is saving? He is sacrificing for the KIDS!

Lemond said, "I don't know how he (Armstrong) can continue to convince everyone of his innocence" in 2004.

"Look, I know the French haven't had a rider in yellow yet, but don't deny the medical miracle" said Lance at every Tour de France.

By dropping Greg LeMond, in my opinion, TREK has only flamed the fires in the dope-denial scam of one Lance Armstrong while reaffirming the truths of one Greg LeMond; we ban and deny what we don't like to hear atmo, especially when the Almighty Dollar is at stake.

Good article:

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:zMDHqEdVQ_8J:thefanzine.com/print.php%3Fid%3D147+lance+armstrong+look+I+know+t he+French+don%27t+deny+the+medical+miracle&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=13&gl=us

Can you find John Burke, Lance Armstrong and Jesus Christ?

[97CSI]

Can you find Jesus Christ?Yes.......he is masquarading as GL. Or is it the other way 'round?

[BBB]

Revised email to Trek.

- His most valuable teammates have either admitted or been found guilty of doping (Andreu, Hamilton, Landis).

- His climbing went from solid to the best in the world despite not having lost weight (as commonly suggested) according to documents provided by Dr. Coyle, an exercise physiologist (see Walsh's book for proof).



You forgot Heras!

Your last point is a very good one. Certainly the body shape changed post-cancer, but did he really lose the amount of weight alleged, thus giving him the massive boost in power to weight ratio that is said to be the root of his post-cancer success? The TdF's medical records taken during the pre-Tour check up should clear the issue up.

[palincss]

Important Announcement from Trek President John Burke
April 8, 2008

Additionally, in 2008 you can look forward to seeing an exciting new Armstrong Stem equipped with patented needle storage compartment. The compartment will store up to 25mils of your preferred doping solution. Act by July 31st and participating Trek stores will be offering a $10 Brystol Myers Squib rebate coupon with your purchase of a qualifying Trek bike with Armstrong Stem.

Thank you for your business,

Best Regards,

John Burke

"We put the 'lance' into the Armstrong"?? :banana:

[CaptStash]

PS - As you can see, I believe in grand conspiracy theories. So, I wanted to warn you that a international cabal of Jewish framebuilders led by Richard Sachs and Ben Serotta plan to takeover Trek in the very near future.

Woo Hoo! Finally we will rule the world...err, umm the bike world?

Capt (they let Jews go to sea?) Stash....

[M.Sommers]

You forgot Heras!

Your last point is a very good one. Certainly the body shape changed post-cancer, but did he really lose the amount of weight alleged, thus giving him the massive boost in power to weight ratio that is said to be the root of his post-cancer success? The TdF's medical records taken during the pre-Tour check up should clear the issue up.

bro read 'From Lance to Landis' this topic is spoken about at length. lance's sudden surge in power is an x-file for mulder and scully. :rolleyes:

[toaster]

Here's an informative read:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Opinion/Trek_dumps_LeMond_analysis_309.html

[swoop]

when you sell frames based on cult of personality you have to deal with the personalities.
and when you build a mythology around one of the guys that isn't based on the whole truth.. you do sell a lot of frames.. but then you're accountable to the guy that wants to tell the (his) truth.

this is just as much about trek,l ance, and greg as it is about why we buy things with famous people's name on them when the thing we're buying really doesn't have much to do with the persons name.

at some point the manufacturer has to responsibly brand their product. the mythos of lance and the mythos of greg have built-in a kind of conflict.
one is depressive and vulnerable and the other has the power to deny death. they're two different archetypes that won't ever mix.

i don't think the issue is lance or greg but rather the decision process that put the two under the same roof.

i can just as easily argue that the conflict between the two could have been used in a way to energize both brands... and the weight given to the odd customer complaint is manipulation as art.

[duke]

How's the IF coming. I want to see pictures. Are you going to Skamania in May?
duke

[97CSI]

Here's an informative read: http://www.slowtwitch.com/Opinion/Trek_dumps_LeMond_analysis_309.htmlGood read. We can see that plenty of GL's vaunted business acumen extends to hiring good attorneys to sue those he is in business with. As a math teach, can say that this 'fits a pattern'.

[ecl2k]

Good read. We can see that plenty of GL's vaunted business acumen extends to hiring good attorneys to sue those he is in business with. As a math teach, can say that this 'fits a pattern'.


Bad read. Poor analysis by 97CSI. According to the article he has a history of 3 lawsuits:

1. vs. PTI - signed a 10 year contract to make crappy bike accessories at target, they pulled out at 2 years so he sued for breaking the contract. I think most would all sue in his position.

2. vs. some guy in a real estate deal -"Now, court documents show Blixseth is late with a payment of $20 million that he owes to Tour de France winner Greg LeMond and three other Yellowstone investors to settle a lawsuit over their stakes in the resort, where empty lots start at about $2 million. He agreed to pay a total of $38 million and has already paid $18 million. " I don't think Lemond should give this guy a pass.

3. vs. trek "for not expanding the brand" - this is just a desperate attempt to hang on or at least go down swinging.

I just don't see how 1 questionable lawsuit is a pattern of suing business partners.

[93legendti]

Good read. We can see that plenty of GL's vaunted business acumen extends to hiring good attorneys to sue those he is in business with. As a math teach, can say that this 'fits a pattern'.

Not too mention firing his dad and blaming his bike business' woes on his dad. Talk about class. :rolleyes:

[mcteague]

Not too mention firing his dad and blaming his bike business' woes on his dad. Talk about class. :rolleyes:
Do you know the story behind the firing of his Dad? Bet not.

Tim McTeague

[14max]

*

[93legendti]

Do you know the story behind the firing of his Dad? Bet not.

Tim McTeague
How much?
Shall we also bet on if there is a classier way to move his father out of the biz? Instead of:

GL: "I was forced to fire my father because he let the business suffer."

That's trash.

How about:

GL: "As of ___, my father is stepping aside from his duties as LeMond Cycles to concentrate on _____. It's a dream of his and now he will have more time to concentrate on it. I will always value his positive contributions to LeMond Cycles."

That's class.

After Greg threw his own father under the bus, I wonder how many people were racing to hire his dad?

[Tom]

I don't know, one might call that second one 'class' but most people see right through it. Every time you read about some personnel action where the subject is leaving 'to seek other opportunities' you know you're getting smoke blown up your ass.

If your Dad is driving the business into the ground, you get rid of him. If he won't take the hints you give him and leave on his own, you put him on an iceberg and let it float out into the Bering Sea. When the other villagers ask you what happened you tell them. "He's polar bear meat."

That's honesty.

[BumbleBeeDave]

I don't know, one might call that second one 'class' but most people see right through it. Every time you read about some personnel action where the subject is leaving 'to seek other opportunities' you know you're getting smoke blown up your ass.

If your Dad is driving the business into the ground, you get rid of him. If he won't take the hints you give him and leave on his own, you put him on an iceberg and let it float out into the Bering Sea. When the other villagers ask you what happened you tell them. "He's polar bear meat."

That's honesty.

I'd have enough cash to buy Rock Racing if I had a dollar for every time I've seen a press release come off our fax machine announcing someone has left to "seek other opportunities" or to "spend more time with his family." Major smoke . . .

BBD

[J.Greene]

How much?
That's class.
After Greg threw his own father under the bus, I wonder how many people were racing to hire his dad?

93Ti

a word of caution bro.......your starting to sound no different than the plaintiff or defendent. Is fighting about this stuff worth going down the same road???

JG

[93legendti]

I'd have enough cash to buy Rock Racing if I had a dollar for every time I've seen a press release come off our fax machine announcing someone has left to "seek other opportunities" or to "spend more time with his family." Major smoke . . .

BBD

Dave, the question isn't if it's smoke or not. Of course it is. The question is which is the classy way to handle firing your own father.

The buck should have stopped with Greg in his own company- if he had class. If people think publicly blaming his dad was classy, then I shake my head in disbelief.

I cheered Greg on in all of his victories and own the TdF tapes; I was saddened when he couldn't win in '91 and dropped out in '92; but geez, how about him showing a little respect for his father?

[WickedWheels]

Here's an informative read:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Opinion/Trek_dumps_LeMond_analysis_309.html

This reads like an overly-opinionated book report written by a 5th grader with non-cyclists as target audience.

There are so many issues with this OPINION, I don't know where to begin...
- LeMond frames have not been "updated" to make them more marketable than old ones. The geometry is the same as it has been. Even the sloping top tube has been done on their frames for a long time.
- The investment in tooling is done as a money-saving exercise. Previous frames had a HUGE cost of manufacture that involved not only molds for the carbon seat tube/top tube junction, but also involved welding titanium (which is VERY expensive) and then bonding it to carbon. This process carries a much higher VARIABLE cost than a simple fixed expense of producing molds.
- LeMond has had to fight his battles in court, as many people with a highly brand-able name. Why not mention how many lawsuits Trek or Armstrong have been involved in???

Oh, I could go on and on...

I don't know why, but I have this image of the author as this Nashbar-jersey-wearing 45-year-old bachelor (and some sort of an engineer) who shows up on his Scattante to the LBS team meeting to complain about the discount that his team is getting from the shop.

Fire this opinionated, ignorant jackass and stop wasting internet space.

[sspielman]

This reads like an overly-opinionated book report written by a 5th grader with non-cyclists as target audience.

There are so many issues with this OPINION, I don't know where to begin...
- LeMond frames have not been "updated" to make them more marketable than old ones. The geometry is the same as it has been. Even the sloping top tube has been done on their frames for a long time.
- The investment in tooling is done as a money-saving exercise. Previous frames had a HUGE cost of manufacture that involved not only molds for the carbon seat tube/top tube junction, but also involved welding titanium (which is VERY expensive) and then bonding it to carbon. This process carries a much higher VARIABLE cost than a simple fixed expense of producing molds.
- LeMond has had to fight his battles in court, as many people with a highly brand-able name. Why not mention how many lawsuits Trek or Armstrong have been involved in???

Oh, I could go on and on...

I don't know why, but I have this image of the author as this Nashbar-jersey-wearing 45-year-old bachelor (and some sort of an engineer) who shows up on his Scattante to the LBS team meeting to complain about the discount that his team is getting from the shop.

Fire this opinionated, ignorant jackass and stop wasting internet space.


+1,000,000,000!!!

[mcteague]

How much?
Shall we also bet on if there is a classier way to move his father out of the biz? Instead of:

GL: "I was forced to fire my father because he let the business suffer."

That's trash.

How about:

GL: "As of ___, my father is stepping aside from his duties as LeMond Cycles to concentrate on _____. It's a dream of his and now he will have more time to concentrate on it. I will always value his positive contributions to LeMond Cycles."

That's class.

After Greg threw his own father under the bus, I wonder how many people were racing to hire his dad?

Wow, creepy. Sounds like you were in the room with GL all the time! You still don't know the full story, neither do I. Maybe it was a jerk move to fire his Dad and maybe the guy deserved the boot. I just wonder what all the details were.

Tim McTeague

[Fixed]

bro. lemond targeted their line for older cats that knew who he was
and wanted a race bike they didn't deliver so the old cats went somewhere else and paid for what they wanted
imho
cheers the real old ti lemonds were different imho

[93legendti]

Wow, creepy. Sounds like you were in the room with GL all the time! You still don't know the full story, neither do I. Maybe it was a jerk move to fire his Dad and maybe the guy deserved the boot. I just wonder what all the details were.

Tim McTeague

What's creepy is defending Greg's public disrespect for his own father. If you read what I posted, I thought Greg publicly blaming his father for the company's woes was classless. It doesn't matter to me whether Greg had a reason to fire him - after all it was Greg's company. My issue is how Greg handled it after he made his decision. Sorry you can't understand that.

[Fixed]

the thing is it's family imho

maybe you have to be a dad to know what it would mean to let your son down

imho cheers

[14max]

*

[93legendti]

His father was management for Greg's company. He was supposed to do that job and do it well. He didn't. Greg was still riding at the time the company was created so he didn't have any idea what the day to day operations were. He trusted his dad to know and understand what was going on and deal with the company as someone in that position would. In this case, Greg's dad was an employee first. He was getting paid to do a job that he wasn't doing. When you own your own company and hire your dad to run it maybe then you could possibly begin to understand how that relationship changes. Until then, it's speculation and hypothesis on your part as to how it would/could/should be done...

Gotcha. So your disagreement with what I posted must mean you think Greg publicly blaming his father was classy. I never speculated on anything. I offered an opinion that "Greg publicly blaming his father for the company's woes was classless", which apparently you disagree with. I respect your opinion.

What's creepy is defending Greg's public disrespect for his own father. If you read what I posted, I thought Greg publicly blaming his father for the company's woes was classless. It doesn't matter to me whether Greg had a reason to fire him - after all it was Greg's company. My issue is how Greg handled it after he made his decision. Sorry you can't understand that.

[14max]

*

[rwsaunders]

I don't know why, but I have this image of the author as this Nashbar-jersey-wearing 45-year-old bachelor (and some sort of an engineer) who shows up on his Scattante to the LBS team meeting to complain about the discount that his team is getting from the shop.

Wait just a minute....there are a slew of us Nashbar-wearing, engineer type, sale-hunting techno-nerds out there...and we vote. Right Darren? I couldn't fit all of that on a bumper sticker. :cool:

[97CSI]

Wait just a minute....there are a slew of us Nashbar-wearing, engineer type, sale-hunting techno-nerds out there...and we vote. Right Darren? I couldn't fit all of that on a bumper sticker. :cool:Yepper......guilty on all counts except Nashbar wearing. But, I can change that for about 10% of what it would cost to be a Ralphie (or whatever it is) wearer. :)

[flux]

" I love my Lemond bicycle."

[swoop]

i think the lemond is a better looking bike than the trek. no contest.

[flux]

[ :rolleyes:

[M.Sommers]

Wow, creepy. Sounds like you were in the room with GL all the time! You still don't know the full story, neither do I. Maybe it was a jerk move to fire his Dad and maybe the guy deserved the boot. I just wonder what all the details were.

Tim McTeague

Hey...

Lance fired Kristen. :rolleyes:
And Sheryl. :rolleyes:

[michael white]

Lemond did make a lot of handsome bikes, but they all seemed to lose their attraction for me a few years back. All the spine stuff left me cold. I believe I was one of the potential customers who hesitated because I didn't like what I was hearing out of GL's mouth. That might be superficial, but I bet I was far from the only one.

[flux]

Lemond did make a lot of handsome bikes, but they all seemed to lose their attraction for me a few years back. All the spine stuff left me cold. I believe I was one of the potential customers who hesitated because I didn't like what I was hearing out of GL's mouth. That might be superficial, but I bet I was far from the only one.

What was it you didn't like coming from his mouth?

[michael white]

What I didn't like:

Greg Lemond, whenever asked for a comment on LA, especially after a victory, seemed to use words like "fraud," "threat" "his secret" etc. This is all well known. That stuff is what I don't like. I don't like anyone who goes negative or points the finger, especially when no one really asked him to. Who was Lemond working for when he made those statements? Who was he representing? Because there are better ways to change things.

The finger pointer is the very last person in any matter that I would trust, vote for, or believe about much of anything.

Sorry if that sounds harsh.

best,
mw

[mcteague]

No, you don't have me but thanks for playing. What I was saying is that until you've been in his shoes you have your opinion but it amounts to nothing. It was Greg's company and, yes, he has every right to blame the person he felt ran the company into the ground even if it was his father. It doesn't matter how you or I would handle it differently.
Exactly. I'm sure, for business image and the respect of some posters here, GL should have been more diplomatic. He could have given the sort of official speech you hear so much in Washington about stepping down in order to spend more time with your family. We all know it is a lie. As I have said before, Greg just comes across as almost too honest. He appears to speak his mind first and not always consider how he may come across. Sort of refreshing IMO.

Tim McTeague

[dwightskin]

relevant - "having significant and demonstrable bearing on the matter at hand"

GL wants to be relevant in this era that has moved on from his victories:

1) Relevant to current racing scene (comments on doping)
2) Relevant to Tour de France (testified at Landis trial - what's that about?)
3) Relevent to neighbors and friends (I can get you a deal on a Lemond)
4) Keeping his "brand" relevant - cheap accessories at Target


He's a great guy, but you wouldn't want to be a business partner with him in his fight to stay relevant in the cycling world.

You'd rather be a business partner or owner of a brand that you can completely control (Schwinn, Fuji, Motobecane, Salsa) or that you can mostly control (Fisher, Bontrager).


Dwight

PS As an aside, this type of thing goes on in other industrys. Example: Vidal Sassoon and Procter and Gamble. P&G buys the brand, Vidal starts having some personal troubles, they have a little fight, P&G strengthens their internal brands (Pantene) and a similar lawsuit ensues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vidal_sassoon

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . Greg just comes across as almost too honest. He appears to speak his mind first and not always consider how he may come across. Sort of refreshing IMO.

. . . I would rather have too much honesty from him that may make me uncomfortable sometimes rather than the obviously slickly managed PR program from Lance and Trek that makes me uncomfortable all the time.

I don't get the feeling that Lemond is hiding anything. Maybe that's his whole intent--I don't know. But I do get the feeling--consistently and repeatedly--that Lance is hiding something.

BBD

[93legendti]

relevant - "having significant and demonstrable bearing on the matter at hand"

GL wants to be relevant in this era that has moved on from his victories:

1) Relevant to current racing scene (comments on doping)
2) Relevant to Tour de France (testified at Landis trial - what's that about?)
3) Relevent to neighbors and friends (I can get you a deal on a Lemond)
4) Keeping his "brand" relevant - cheap accessories at Target


He's a great guy, but you wouldn't want to be a business partner with him in his fight to stay relevant in the cycling world.

You'd rather be a business partner or owner of a brand that you can completely control (Schwinn, Fuji, Motobecane, Salsa) or that you can mostly control (Fisher, Bontrager).


Dwight

PS As an aside, this type of thing goes on in other industrys. Example: Vidal Sassoon and Procter and Gamble. P&G buys the brand, Vidal starts having some personal troubles, they have a little fight, P&G strengthens their internal brands (Pantene) and a similar lawsuit ensues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vidal_sassoon

Your mention of Fuji reminds me of the debacle of the US Mercury-Viatel team
in 2001.

Before Greg was involved, the team road Fuji. Greg got involved and wanted the team to ride LeMond bikes - but the plug got pulled in the middle of the year. I recall a photo of one rider's bike. He had taped over the "d" on the DT of his bike so it read "LeMon".

http://www.velonews.com/article/779
LeMond Cycling terminates Mercury team contract

By VeloNews Interactive
Posted Jun. 12, 2001
In a three-sentence press release, LeMond Cycling announced that it has ended its contract with John Wordin Sports and the Mercury cycling team.

Even when announcing the split, there were details that the two parties didn't agree on. The press release carried a June 12 date, but according to LeMond's manager, Warren Gibson, the termination was effective June 5.

"Greg wanted the guys to get through the national championships," before the contact news was announced, Warren said.

According to Wordin, the termination date is today, June 12, and said his office would distribute a press release.

Here's the full text of the release sent on behalf of LeMond Cycling:

LeMond Ends Agreement with Mercury Cycling Team

Richmond, VA (12 June 2001) - LeMond Cycling, the endorsement company of Greg LeMond and Shadetree Sports, its cycling team contract partner, announce the termination of the co-title sponsorship arrangement with the Mercury Cycling Team, run by John Wordin Sports, due to certain conditions which were the foundation of the agreement that put them together.

LeMond Cycling and Shadetree Sports will be looking to energize an independent team for the next racing season.

The confidentially of the agreement does not allow for interviews at this time.


http://www.allbusiness.com/retail-trade/miscellaneous-retail-miscellaneous/4152121-1.html

[97CSI]

. . . I would rather have too much honesty from him that may make me uncomfortable sometimes rather than the obviously slickly managed PR program from Lance and Trek that makes me uncomfortable all the time.

I don't get the feeling that Lemond is hiding anything. Maybe that's his whole intent--I don't know. But I do get the feeling--consistently and repeatedly--that Lance is hiding something.

BBDDon't know the details of GL's business dealings. But, on the surface, it appears that he either sues or fights with everyone he is ever involved with. Unless he has proof, he should keep his mouth shut about other riders. Is simply sour-grapes on his part.

As for Trek and LA, I don't see them going out of their way to do anything any other bike company (or business) would not/does not do. While all the accusations makes one wonder, believe LA has it right when he states that he is the most tested rider in history and has never failed.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Don't know the details of GL's business dealings. But, on the surface, it appears that he either sues or fights with everyone he is ever involved with. Unless he has proof, he should keep his mouth shut about other riders. Is simply sour-grapes on his part.

Yes, Lemond does come across to me as very honest, but he could also prevent a lot pf problems for himself by simply saying nothing. Maybe that's his real problem rather than having a big mouth. If he says nothing he gets forgotten--if he says almost anything people jump to conclusions.

In the matter of him firing his father, though, I'm not sure exactly what one can say or not say that will prevent people from jumping to conclusions. If he says the stuff about "leaving to pursue other opportunities" people see right through it. If he just says honestly that he was not doing a good job and he fired him, then he gets castigated for that--as has happened in this thread. If he says absolutely nothing, then it still gets out that Dad is not running the company any more and I the speculation might well be even worse.

As for Trek and LA, I don't see them going out of their way to do anything any other bike company (or business) would not/does not do. While all the accusations makes one wonder, believe LA has it right when he states that he is the most tested rider in history and has never failed.

Lance protests too much. It's common knowledge that athletes can manipulate their usage to defeat testing. Plus if you believe the post-testing of his '99 samples, then he has failed. But regardless of that, the continuing tenor and content of his statements come across as disingenuous and defensive. A little too defensive.

BBD

[michael white]

Yes, Lemond does come across to me as very honest



BBD

Lemond as a cyclist had more equipment failures, flats and thrown chains than anyone in the history of the sport, as I recall. Not so honest, if you ask me. I mean, if you really want to talk about honesty. If you want to compare him to Eddy or Lance, I would say the former has made a concerted effort to nurture rising talent, and has done so with respect and restraint. And Lance's devotion to charity is a remarkable legacy; he inspires those who know nothing and care nothing for cycling. Were any of these athletes squeaky clean or super forthcoming? Probably not, who knows. Who cares, in the long run. But what are they doing positive for another human being? If I hear about Lemond in the news, I would prefer not to hear about him as an accuser, a complainer, or a litigant. Athletic prowess is one thing. It's fleeting. In the long run, it matters less and less, and finally matters not at all. Who's your favorite Roman discus thrower? --The wise ones know that, and they understand that the only real legacy is a human one. Everything else falls away like sand.

[swoop]

for all i care they both can be horrible people. the powerpoint presentation from trek is offensive. the mythology of lance is offensive. the licensing of names on bikes is offensive. and customers buying bikes or complaining based on some consumerist moral judgement is offensive.

the bikes seem pretty nice for being what they are.

[Steve Hampsten]

as an aside, and almost completely off-topic, greg was one of the most beautiful riders to watch turn the pedals - especially in his pre-shooting days. i don't think i've ever seen better form.

lance - feh, he got the job done but it was nothing special to see.

the guy who wrote the slowtwitch article, patrick, is a long-time industry writer and insider. agree or don't but he has an informed opinion and knows most of the folks involved.

[palincss]

Lemond as a cyclist had more equipment failures, flats and thrown chains than anyone in the history of the sport, as I recall. Not so honest, if you ask me.

Equipment failures, flat tires and thrown chains are evidence of dishonesty? How would that work, exactly?

[BumbleBeeDave]

Equipment failures, flat tires and thrown chains are evidence of dishonesty? How would that work, exactly?

The implication was that he was faking them?

BBD

[BumbleBeeDave]

the bikes seem pretty nice for being what they are.

. . . the worst thing about all of this. They DO seem to be pretty nice bikes. Shame if they won't be available anymore just because of the personality clash.

BBD

[michael white]

qualification:
I didn't read the slowtwitch article, or look at the powerpoint presentation and probably won't. Lemond was a breathtaking athlete in his prime, who blew the sport wide open. I was reacting to character comparisons: one athlete being seen as intrinsically more "honest" than another based on perception, etc. I'm just not so sure.

[dirtdigger88]

I went to the Trek store yesterday - I know the guy who runs it- I wanted to see what his take was-

ALL of his Lemonds were 25- 30% off and he said the deals will get sweeter very soon-

jason

[ClutchCargo]

I went to the Trek store yesterday - I know the guy who runs it- I wanted to see what his take was-

ALL of his Lemonds were 25- 30% off and he said the deals will get sweeter very soon-

jason

what was his take on the situation? How was he viewing it?

[14max]

*

[WickedWheels]

the guy who wrote the slowtwitch article, patrick, is a long-time industry writer and insider. agree or don't but he has an informed opinion and knows most of the folks involved.

Calling the guy an industry writer isn't very nice. I think it hurts his credibility almost as much as that article. There's a lot of garbage in print out there. More garbage than substance.

[swoop]

Calling the guy an industry writer isn't very nice. I think it hurts his credibility almost as much as that article. There's a lot of garbage in print out there. More garbage than substance.


patrick has been around and in the industry a long time. he's currently writing for a bike manufacturer and is passionate and informed. he's got the bkw with freddy and has done some serious time putting out magazines. he also puts his buns in the saddle and rides. he's a safe wheel and an interesting nice guy with his own point of view and is always worth listening to.
he doesn't make any claim on having access to the universal truth, he just writes what he means.
i happen to not like what he's saying here.... but that doesn't mean he sucks.
it just means we see it differently. he's certainly seen, heard, and touched more of the bike industry than i ever will... he'll always get my respect.

[vaxn8r]

Lemond had to distance himself from his father to save any credibility in the industry. It had to appear he was "cleaning house". His father had ruined the brand, the company and pissed off a boatload of people.

[dirtdigger88]

what was his take on the situation? How was he viewing it?

as a business move on Trek's part- nothing more nothing less

jason

[fierte_poser]

From an article on foxnews:

LeMond and Armstrong also have feuded over doping since 2001 when LeMond said he was unhappy about Armstrong's association with an Italian doctor Michele Ferrari, who had been linked to doping accusations but later was cleared by an appeals court.

Armstrong cut ties with Ferrari before the 2005 Tour.

Trek has strong ties with Armstrong, a seven-time winner of the Tour de France. Burke said Armstrong was not informed of the company's decision to drop LeMond.

No kidding. In fact, it was Armstrong who informed the company of the decision to drop Lemond. :p