9-11-01

[Dekonick]

Please remember and honor those who gave their lives on that fateful day.

@10:05 - The South Tower WTC collapsed
@10:28 - The North Tower WTC Collapsed

And lets not forget the Pentagon, the crash in Pa, the soldiers overseas, and the other innocents who have perrished because of the cowardly acts of a few radicals.

No politics - Just remember what happened and honor the dead.

May they rest in peace.

[Bill Bove]

Amen

[jeffg]

I am spending the day in downtown Manhattan and just walked by the ceremonies (families and guests only). It is a somber day indeed.

[Jeff N.]

Please remember and honor those who gave their lives on that fateful day.

@10:05 - The South Tower WTC collapsed
@10:28 - The North Tower WTC Collapsed

And lets not forget the Pentagon, the crash in Pa, the soldiers overseas, and the other innocents who have perrished because of the cowardly acts of a few radicals.

No politics - Just remember what happened and honor the dead.

May they rest in peace.Absolutely. May God bless them and their families.

And you're right...life IS too short to drink cheap beer. Or ride cheap bikes. Jeff N.

[David Kirk]

I was working with my good friend Carl Strong on that day. We sat in silence and listened to NPR and couldn't beleive what we were hearing. We treid to be stoic and get some framebuilding done but is wasn't going to happen.

I'll never forget that day. Sitting on the picnic table, looking out at the perfect sky and tall mountains and hearing the Airforce jets scream over.

Remember that day.

Dave

[caffeine power]

I was ready to get deployed the next day but what has really happened since. Not a damn thing. Now we're just a whining country that thinks it is better than the rest of the world and doesn't deserve what it gets... in spades.

Too bad, 9/11 was and is just another day of the year.

[Russ]

....Too bad, 9/11 was and is just another day of the year.

But what caffeine power said gives you a lot to think about....

[dirtdigger88]

I am spending the day with my family today, on the "first" 9/11 I was at work- but when I realized what was happening I left to be with my wife (the baby wasn't around yet). I will never forget and I will make damn sure my son understands the magnitude of what happened that day. I still to this day have to take a deep breath when I think of that day. Our entire world changed in an instant.

Jason

[pbbob]

there was a minute of silence and a color guard before the century ride in dover today.

[csb]

.

[weisan]

http://velonews.com/images/int/6933.9266.f.jpgFrom Velonews (http://velonews.com/race/int/articles/6933.0.html):

Hamilton was pleased and relaxed at the end of the stage Saturday, but made a point in each of interviews to close off questions with a reminder that it was also the third anniversary of the attacks on New York and Washington.

"It's something that changed the world as I know it," Hamilton said. "I would like to dedicate this win to all the people affected by the tragedy of 9-11."

[caffeine power]

Nobody that saw it on the news that day will ever forget it, but you have to move on. Do we have a national day for the people who died in other plane crashes? Nope. How about the 163 that died when the Murrow building was bombed in Oklahoma City? Nope. US citizens, especially ones with a more conservative political leaning, fail to see how we reap what we sow. These people seem to feel that because "we're Americans" we have a special dispensation forbidding the **** of life and the world from being dumped on us. Well guess what, life is a **** sandwich and we all gotta take a bite. And then what? After we take that collective bite do we do anything? Oh sure, we go after the guy/guys in charge. Bin Laden? Sure. Hussein? Deserving of an *** kicking but behind it or involved in it? Not according to the facts. And why aren't we holding the "government" (not really much of a government when it's a Monarchy) of Saudi Arabia accountable? Do you think I'll say OIL? Why not. How about just plain $$$$$$? We could all live in a nice fuzzy warm bubble of our homes with the hopes of the crap of the outside world never touching us. But as we saw in Russia last week if someone is going to hold a school full of a few hundred or more "innocents" hostage where are they going to choose to do it? In an environment where the populace hesitates because those actions and that type of hatred are so rarely seen. Why? Because if terrorists, domestic or foreign, suddenly took Middleton High School hostage they'd have all day to get set up before the police responded. Why? Because this isn't Tel Aviv or Moscow or Mosul... "bad things don't happen to americans on american soil"....wrong. Get ready, it will happen again. Sooner or later it will happen and I won't be the least bit surprised. Will you?

[gdw]

Relax guy. Let's keep the political ranting off this forum. Ride your bike and enjoy the weekend.

[va rider]

In the immortal words of the Big Toe -- lighten up Francis.

[Dekonick]

Ummm -

Chill out - drink less caffeine :cool:

Seriously - keep the politics out of this. Oklahoma City was terrible, as are (were) many other events. What you fail to realize is the magnitude of 9-11-01. It touched the world - not just our little paradise. Something else I can relate to that you might not - the firefighters who went into those towers knew they werent coming out alive. I had just gotten off from my regular 24 hour shift and was watching the news, with a cup o joe, when I saw tower 1 burning. I could see that the structure was going to fail - and I know what I would have done if my crew had been there. We would have gone in knowing we were going to die, but also knowing perhaps we could help others. Our rule is risk a little to save a little, risk alot to save alot. From where I sit that makes 9-11-01 ALOT different. Screw politics, over 300 firefighters died in less than a few hours - all doing their job. All I ask is you respect them, the civilians who died a horrible death, and those whose lives were and are affected by the calamity that was 9-11-01.

Now go ride off your frustrations! I just did and I feel MUCH better!

[dirtdigger88]

No truer word have ever been written on this fourm- Dekonick. God bless

Jason

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . that yesterday was an awful anniversary, and that we should never forget what happened and what it meant. I pray for all the souls who left us on that day, and all the loved ones they leave behind.

But 9/11 stirred a question in me that I wish more people would consider, and that is: Why do they hate us so much?

I don’t mean just the ranting, raving, bomb-belt strapped, pistol waving terrorists . . . It has become apparent to me since that date that there are an awful LOT of people in he world who don’t like us, and it can’t be because all of them are crazy terrorists. Hell, they not only “don’t like us.”--They absolutely hate our guts.

On the one hand, it makes me so glad that I live in a part of the world that IS generally one of the safest, where I can go ride my bike around the countryside without worry of being shot, stabbed, or blown up. On the other hand, it also makes me wonder when our international behavior as a country is going to succeed in alienating so many of the rest of the world’s people’s that we lose our hard-won reputation for being a leader of the world and a bastion of equality and freedom--if we haven’t lost it already. It also makes me wonder when we will wake up as a people to this reality and do something to correct it.

Hope this doesn’t come across as too much of a “political rant,” but I DO worry about such things. Call me a bleeding heart . . .

BBDave

[Kevan]

9/11 I worked in the shadows of those two towers. In fact, a few years earlier, I worked in building number 5 of that complex, enjoyed the free concerts given in the plaza during summers or just walking around that entire area, people and building watching. For several years I worked at 140 Broadway and every evening I'd walk towards the the Wall Street subway stop and take a few moments to gaze up at the buildings. I remember as if it were only this past Friday seeing the buildings cast off a golden glow from the setting sun. Or on other times, the clouds would shroud half of the towers and you would see the steel and glass disappear up into the wisp. Late nights, the florescent lights of each floor indicated where others too were working late. I remember those towers like it was yeaterday.

The day of the attack I was between consulting gigs and was home with my wife running chores when the news report came over the car radio. How could a plane hit the Trade tower?! It was a million-buck day. Clear as a bell. Beautifully sunny, dry and cool. Nothing ever bad happens on days that nice.

Well... things bad do happen and I'll remember it like it happened yesterday.

[bulliedawg]

Get ready, it will happen again. Sooner or later it will happen and I won't be the least bit surprised. Will you?

You best "get ready" for a visit from the US Government compliments of John Ashcroft who is monitoring this forum and everything else he can.

Don't be stupid enough to think you're anonymous, my friend. Low sodium diet for you.

[Dekonick]

The US is hated for lots of reasons.

Envy, Misunderstanding, U.S. foreign policy, U.S. domestic policy (doesnt matter who is in office, this is a universal truth)

We dominate. No one likes to be dominated. Everyone looks at the big house and asks - why do they get to have that when I have my mud hut?
Media portrays the US as a country of rich cowboys - think DALLAS and DYNASTY. Our military might - we have a big fist. We swing that fist, we threaten with that fist, we hold people down with that fist. American's abroad are often what I call 'Ugly Americans' - We insult other cultures. We expect them to adapt to us, even when we visit on their turf. I can remember my Uncle in Belgium (Mind you, Belgium is a first world country with some of the hottest tech in the world. It is also an old country, with a culture and history that is as old as Europe, even if Belgium is only a few hundred years old as a 'country') - back to my Uncle - We go to eat at a resteraunt and order a nice lunch. We are brought our beverages (of course my Uncle is drinking a COKE - what else would you drink in Belgium other than a mass produced sugar and caffeine beverage from the great 'ole USA - and he begins to rant about how his coke doesnt have Ice! (It does, just its only a few cubes. Not the american ice mountain we are used to) He begins talking about how uncivilized they are etc etc... All in english of course - as he only speaks the typical American ONE language. Well - it so happens that most Belgians speak at least 3 languages fluently, and English is one of them. How do you think that made all of the locals feel? Good about US? (my Uncle is actually a nice guy, but he cant adapt well at all to foreign cultures)

Heck - while we are all generally good people, we are set in our USA ways. Our government looks out for our political and economic interests - and even provides humanitarian aid (most often when it also serves our interests) - but we are what we are. We are a wealthy nation. We have resources above and beyond most other countries. We are mighty. We are egocentric. We are misunderstood.

This is why we are hated.

I love this country. I love my fellow Americans. I would die to protect this country. But I also understand why we are hated.

Just be glad you are an American living in the great old USA and not an Armenian struggling to survive.

I say enjoy this great land! Love her with all of your heart and soul. Just remember those who have given of themselves to make it what it is today.

I think I am going to go lube my American made 2 wheeled steed and plan where I am going to ride her on wonderful paved roads later this week.

Sorry for the rant. This topic is dear to my heart. :D

Oh - please - if you go to Belgium, DRINK BEER - Belgian Beer! like a Dekoninck, Orval, Chimay, Rodenbach, Hoegaarden, etc... and try some of the local delicacies (sp?) like Mussels, or rabbit in Geuze... mmmm mm mmmm Yummmm :D

[bulliedawg]

Why do they hate us so much?

Jealousy, and our heavy-handed bias towards Isreal. I don't mind a bias towards Isreal, BTW, but it needs to be on the lowdown. I could carry this further, but it would get too "political".

[flydhest]

That day is in my head as well. I was on the phone, as usual, with our colleagues in the New York office. They were talking about the paper and smoke flying through the air... being a short walk away. In my Division Director's office, we had the TV on, next to the window. There was a picture of the Pentagon on fire as we could watch it out of the window across the river. Eerie picture in stereo.

BBDave, I know and respect you. The fact that I also like you makes this hard for me to say. But since you're in the media and were even the least bit surprised that there is virulent hatred of the US around the world explains--at least in small part--why it's there. The anecdotes and views people have expressed about American portrayal around the world is part of it. I personally think the jealousy/envy argument is a red herring to make us feel less culpable. American attitude and policy has wrought great evils around the world. To be sure, there is a lot that makes the country great and I am proud to be American. I have for years had options of moving and living in other countries (I'm fluent in 3 languages, with enough of an understanding of several others that the transition wouldn't be too hard) and yet remain here. Heck, my wife isn't American, and yet I'm still fairly up on America. However, there are many, many aspects of US history and culture that are deplorable. I'm part Native American. Anyone with a bit of knowledge of American history should wince whenever there is discussion of genocide on the one hand and America being a beacon of freedom on the other. Slavery, Jim Crow laws, the rejection of Jewish refugees after WWII. The fact that current members of Congress were opposed to the legislation that guaranteed blacks the right to vote.

Now, compare that to our intense efforts to rebuild Europe after WWI and WWII. Our work rebuilding Japan. Efforts by many at home to realize the awe-inspiring promises of our Constitution. The America we learn about in schools is the America we ought to, and can be, but unfortunately are not. The fact remains, Americans are human an imperfect. In these heated debates, those decrying the US, lose sight of the enormous good that has been done. Those "rallying 'round the flag" lose sight of ill. The US did not deserve 9/11. The US is not, however, a beacon of light, either.

[Bill Bove]

The U.S. is hated for lots of reasons... I cannot disagree with you on those points, they are true but let's not forget that Belgians didn't fly airplanes into the WTC, Suadi Arabians did. They hate us because they are tought to hate us by mullahs who do not like our culture and are allowd to preach hatred to America by the house of Saud because it deflects the fact that S.A IS A VERY RICH country and most of that money is controlled by the royal family. A lot of other reasons too.

The United States of America has been a force of good in the world for the last fifty years. Our abundance of natural resources helped save Europe from fascism. We did not try to colonise the world but we helped save it and rebuild it, we only became a world leader because we were the only alternative to communism and a lot of the world is better off for it. American charity workers are on every continant helping people. That American Coke was botteled in Belgium providing jobs for Belgians.

I am not a flag waving, love it or leave it, phsycho patriot but I am a patriot.
We live in the best country on the planet because we made it that way. Our forefathers worked damn hard to build this country, our fathers fought to save it and our goverment doesn't "allow" us to work hard to move up in status, it expects it, and we deliver. You can't do that in most of the world and they know it so they deamonize US to keep their citizenry from looking at THEM and asking "why?' Israel is just another piece of BS they feed their people to keep them down, they'd still hate us even if there were no Israel . Hatred of the United States is the new opiate of the masses.

[dave thompson]

Hatred of the United States is the new opiate of the masses.
That is one of the most interesting observations that I've heard in a long, long time! I've never considered that. Thanks Bill.

[bulliedawg]

Israel is just another piece of BS they feed their people to keep them down, they'd still hate us even if there were no Israel . Hatred of the United States is the new opiate of the masses.

Our relationship with Isreal is very much a part of the hatred towards the US. "Opiate of the masses" was Lenin's discription for religion. Arabs hating Americans for our favoring a Jewish state means that the "Opiate of the masses" is still religion (carrying Bill's statement to its logical conclusion).

[Dekonick]

I agree that Belgians did not fly planes into the WTC. My point was that even in a country that is an ally - the in fact headquarters to NATO - We (The USA) are viewed in a bad light by the general population. Some of this is secondary to policy, media, widgits, etc... but WE (Americans) often do not help our image when we travel abroad. If I had examples from North Africa, I would have used them but my Uncle was in Belgium, not Egypt.

We just need to be aware of this and try to be the good neighbor. In the grand scheme of things, we are but a tiny moment in time. In 100 years this will all be forgotten - Imagine how it will be 500 or 1000 years from now.

We are temporary custodians here - lets be good custodians! :banana:

I LOVE the USA. I can not think of anywhere else I would rather live (Italy would make a nice second with perhaps Spain, Belgium (The Beer is THAT good...and cycling is popular!) etc... making a close third.

All we can do is be informed - Act prudently, be aware (report strange activity!) continue to live your life...understand that hatred is often just the result of miscommunication and misunderstanding. Just be good Americans! Make me proud.

On another note - did anyone have a good ride today? I wanna hear about Sandy's VA ride! Pbob and I had an interesting trek - Riding from Baltimore to Annapolis on -ahem- not so nice roads - in -ummm- not so nice neighborhoods. It was an experience! I enjoyed it but in future I think Ill stick to nice country roads. Thank goodness for Armodillo's!

-Smiley- you were right. The new stem is more comfortable. I probably dont even need the Poco's but gonna put em on when they arrive anyway. Pbob was riding one sweet looking Holland bike! I am gonna have to look around until I can find one in my size. They are really well made. :p

[Bill Bove]

Bullie, there could also be an argument that hatred of the west is being perverted into a religion by the mullah's who have hijacked Islam.

Didn't mean to pick on you or Belgium, Dek. Just using it to make a point.

I still do not buy the Israel angle, I think it is being used to deflect anger from the rulers of the muslim world for failing to bring their people into the first world.

The ugly American, yup, he does exist and he is an embarrasment. I'm sorry to say that I travelled Europe in the '70's with a maple leaf on my backpack to avoid the stereotype.

[Len J]

That day is in my head as well. I was on the phone, as usual, with our colleagues in the New York office. They were talking about the paper and smoke flying through the air... being a short walk away. In my Division Director's office, we had the TV on, next to the window. There was a picture of the Pentagon on fire as we could watch it out of the window across the river. Eerie picture in stereo.

BBDave, I know and respect you. The fact that I also like you makes this hard for me to say. But since you're in the media and were even the least bit surprised that there is virulent hatred of the US around the world explains--at least in small part--why it's there. The anecdotes and views people have expressed about American portrayal around the world is part of it. I personally think the jealousy/envy argument is a red herring to make us feel less culpable. American attitude and policy has wrought great evils around the world. To be sure, there is a lot that makes the country great and I am proud to be American. I have for years had options of moving and living in other countries (I'm fluent in 3 languages, with enough of an understanding of several others that the transition wouldn't be too hard) and yet remain here. Heck, my wife isn't American, and yet I'm still fairly up on America. However, there are many, many aspects of US history and culture that are deplorable. I'm part Native American. Anyone with a bit of knowledge of American history should wince whenever there is discussion of genocide on the one hand and America being a beacon of freedom on the other. Slavery, Jim Crow laws, the rejection of Jewish refugees after WWII. The fact that current members of Congress were opposed to the legislation that guaranteed blacks the right to vote.

Now, compare that to our intense efforts to rebuild Europe after WWI and WWII. Our work rebuilding Japan. Efforts by many at home to realize the awe-inspiring promises of our Constitution. The America we learn about in schools is the America we ought to, and can be, but unfortunately are not. The fact remains, Americans are human an imperfect. In these heated debates, those decrying the US, lose sight of the enormous good that has been done. Those "rallying 'round the flag" lose sight of ill. The US did not deserve 9/11. The US is not, however, a beacon of light, either.

Life is not lived in the black and white....but in the shades of gray.

Len

[gt6267a]

i was in between consulting gigs and sleeping in. my sister called to say she thankfully had done the same and was alright. i asked why she was telling me and she told me to go turn on the tv. the first tower had been hit but not the second. i watched in the same amazement as everyone else as the morning unfolded.

my sister worked in the complex and quickly realized why she called. i was very thankful that my sister slacked off that morning and tried to call her back to thank her for calling but all the phone lines were busy. if she had not called, i would have been freaking out. thank g-d she called before i knew.

[Elefantino]

Several hundred of us rode in the third annual Patriot Memorial Bike Ride, to honor victims and families, near Jacksonville. We had Taps, a prayer, and a really nice ride.

Keep all things in perpective. And never forget.

Mike

[Louis]

In keeping with the “tone down the politics” instructions we’ve been given, I will only say this:

It’s interesting that something like the 9-11 attacks, which one would imagine ought to unite us, divides us as much as it does. Some believe it’s because lefties “hate America” and some believe that it’s because of the wrong-headed behavior of our administration. I happen to fall into the latter group, but regardless, think about how messed up things have become, for us to not find common ground even on this most horrible of subjects.

Something’s wrong here folks, and I’m not sure how to fix it. I guess my deeper point is that regardless of who wins the election this November, we’re still going to have this problem, and regardless of who wins, I fear the problem might only get worse. That’s my cheerful thought for the day…

Louis

[shinomaster]

Just so you know (and not all Americans do) not all Moslems hate Americans!! Most are still enamoured with the good old USA! Just like my Turkish relatives! They love Levi's and Mcdonalds!!
Those who really do hate us are the desperate Palistinians who have been screwed, and the Islamic fundamentalists. The Fundamentalists are really not much different than the Crusaders of medieval Europe. Remember, the Crusaders Massacured thousands of Jews, Pagans and Moslems in the Name of God. The Moslem extremests are no worse or better than these Crusaders are they? They just worsip a God with a different book. Killing for God is a very old concept, for what better reason should one kill? For money, gold, land, oil, islands, trading routs... All of those have been done many times over. Why not kill for God.
Islam is not well understood by westerners.To say that they hate us out of envy is crap, a poor excuse by George Bush to make us look like a victim. Yes there were many innocent victims on that day of 9-11 but as a nation were were not innocent victems as a whole. Osama Bin Ladin is a Millionaire after all. He chose his was of life for a purpose other than envy. Revenge perhaps.
The USA has meddled with almost every country in the Middle east for our OWN agendas. We do what we want if it suits us to do so. Either out of guilt, or for an economic gain. Everything we do is calculated and we have pissed a lot of people off over the last 50 years. And we have done much good.
Just because we live in a modern age with computers and cell phones dosen't mean that a majority of the worlds population does too, and we shouldn't assume that people don't still live and dye by the words of God.
We haven't come very far when you think about it. It has only been a few hundred years since Men rode around on horses killing one an other in the Name of the Catholic Church or Allah. The Mongols just did it because apparently they had nothing else better do do, and they were really good at it!
We have been sheltered in our modern era. It may be time to accept some responsibility for our actions, or round up the Knights Templars once again.

[malcolm]

I don't post much and generally avoid topics like this, but for all the ill will toward this country particullarly in some european areas considered more civil and cultured than our own you don't have to look far to find little white crosses that represent the blood of young american men and women that were payment for their continued culture and freedom. Our government may or may not have had other motives but our citizens blood has funded the freedom of virtually every country that enjoys it today. So just remember while enjoying this forum and the many other things we take for granted including the right to speak our mind about our government all has come at great cost.
I think Tony Blair recently said something to the effect of you can judge the greatness of a country by the number of people trying to get in versus the number trying to get out. For all her faults I'm an American, I'll do my best to respect others cultures and opinions until they infringe upon the freedom bought and paid for by our citizens.

[weisan]

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2003/1013/039_print.html