OT Downgrade from Vista to XP Pro

[keno]

The HP Slimline Pavilion I got for my wife is a nice enough machine but it came with Vista Home. What is the easiest way to downgrade the machine to XP Pro? (BTW, there is nothing you can say to convince me of any virtues of Vista. If you are a Mac Daddy, what is the short money way to an Apple laptop so I can be exposed to the greatness that might lead to a change to an Apple household?)

keno

[CNY rider]

I just bought a really nice MacBook, 13 inch screen, with capabilities far beyond anything we will use it for, for about $1200.
I think it's more than enough computer for 90% of folks. If you want more in terms of faster, bigger screen, bigger Hd etc. you can go up to a MacBook Pro starting at around $1600.

Come to the light. Turn away from the dark side!

[ergott]

You might have driver issues with the downgrade. Basically, you can reformat the drive and do a fresh install of XP. You might want to search for all the drivers you need first (video, sound, optical drive etc.) and see if they are all available for XP first. If so, the downgrade (it's really an upgrade, I will never run Vista) is more time consuming than difficult.

[Pete Serotta]

I just bought a really nice MacBook, 13 inch screen, with capabilities far beyond anything we will use it for, for about $1200.
I think it's more than enough computer for 90% of folks. If you want more in terms of faster, bigger screen, bigger Hd etc. you can go up to a MacBook Pro starting at around $1600.

Come to the light. Turn away from the dark side!

As long as you do not work in the business side of CORP AMERICA the APPLE is wonderful. Some of the applications in Corporations do not run on APPLE operating system.

[Pete Serotta]

Reformat your hard drive. Install a fresh cope of XP PRO and reload your other software. This is the safest way to do it. XP PRO is very solid and no reason to get APPLE unless you are tires of MICROSOFT.

Internet, MS SUITE, PHOTO ELEMENT, ITUNES will all work fine and be very reliable under XP.

APPLE or HP both work. IF buy a new machine - I like the APPLE for home use (CORP use is somewhat more difficult because of applications that I would use such as MS PROJECT.

[chuckaw]

yeah I downgraded 2 dells my parents got for xmas from vista to XP. Big pain in the A**!!
Dell is sneaky and does not make all the drivers needed available so you really have to do a lot of searching to find them all. Many of the drivers that finally worked were intended for other computers in their lineup. It can be done but it was not easy. FWIW the computers work much better now.

[sc53]

Word of caution: when my brother in law downgraded my niece's new Sony laptop from Vista to XP a couple months ago, it was not so simple as just formatting the HD and loading new copy of XP with all drivers etc. There was some trick or code you needed to get rid of Vista, at least on the Sony machine. IN the end, he (a computer engineer) had to go to the Geek Squad to get the right code and complete the job.

[jemoryl]

A friend wanted a new machine about 6 months ago and we managed to find her a new (actually factory refurb from J&R in NYC) HP desktop with XP for $400. Are these machines still out there?

[Ginger]

A friend wanted a new machine about 6 months ago and we managed to find her a new (actually factory refurb from J&R in NYC) HP desktop with XP for $400. Are these machines still out there?

Yep.

I haven't figured out why so many people have a problem with an operating system. I think most people have an issue just because it's "different" Known vs. unknown and like that.

Don't tell me you never had any problems with XP?

[RudAwkning]

Many machines that come pre-installed with Vista have newer bios features like Flash Cache Module. If you cannot defeat these in the bios, you may have issues re-installing XP on your Vista equipped computer. You also want to make sure you're installing from a Windows XP SP2 cd, as the boot device may be running in AHCI mode which requires special drivers (you can also install these separately by hitting F6 during the first phase of the install process).

Someone above mentioned having problems with Sony. Sony ranks amongst the worst in terms of having proprietary technology in their machines.

[Keith A]

Lots of good input already provided, but I just wanted to add if you have a SATA hard disk, you must get this driver BEFORE you start the install of XP. You can only load this driver during the XP install process. You have to hit F6 when the install first starts so it will prompt you later on to specify the drivers. The real kicker is that it will only read this driver from a floppy drive :crap:

[Kirk007]

reading this makes my head hurt. MacBook is a great little notebook. The iMAc is a great home computer, even the Mac mini - use with your PC monitor etc. If you need PC only software the new Mac OS makes partitioning the hardrive a breeze - just install XP Pro on one side and you are good to go.

Re Vista issues: I stayed away when I needed to upgrade my home machine to run a Tacx magic trainer. Compatibility issues with Vista, based on the Tacx forum, are a nightmare for this software.

Greg

[palincss]

I haven't figured out why so many people have a problem with an operating system. I think most people have an issue just because it's "different" Known vs. unknown and like that.



I guess the CIO's of most federal agencies and big corporations must be big fans of Amy Winehouse, because they're all singing the same song:

They want me to go to Vista,
I say
no
no
no

:beer:

[jemoryl]

Yep.

I haven't figured out why so many people have a problem with an operating system. I think most people have an issue just because it's "different" Known vs. unknown and like that.

Don't tell me you never had any problems with XP?

Sure I've had problems with XP, but I have a Mac at home. But Vista takes crappy operating systems to a new level: it is like system that is spec'ed by the movie industry with the main object being copy protection. Huge overheads caused by encrypting data busses, etc., wacky drivers, etc. Avoid it while you can.

[WadePatton]

My hottest lil 'puter is a refurb/off lease Dell laptop with XP pro. 500 smackers.

I don't see the reason to ever buy new again. AND I have a full XP oem install disk...

I ran 98 until XP was very well established and I'll run XP as long as possible. Beta this. :banana:

[michael white]

I'm typing this on a new HP 2700T SE laptop with Vista which I think is just fine. I recently had a bad experience with another Vista laptop, but that's water under the bridge. I'm totally into this one. I also like Mac's, in fact I love their products, but have tended to move toward Windows, unlike many of my colleagues in the arts, simply because I had problems in the past trying to swim against the current. I am aware that Mac has dealt with compatibility issues, but I'm still sort of in Pete's camp. I need the dang thing to work with the right software for my work: that's job 1. I've been using Vista on this machine for a couple of weeks with no issues at all, and there are a few advantages over XP, which I use on a couple of other machines. And these advantages are useful. My instinct is that people having problems with Vista fall possibly into two camps, one of which Ginger already outlined. The other is that it could be hardware: get the best graphics card you can, make sure you have plenty of memory etc, because Vista is demanding. Make sure your machine is well-outfitted before making any decisions. Look, going back to XP is just a stop-gap. The river of technology doesn't run backward.

PS: one of the great things about HP is the on/off touchpad. Try turning off a Mac touchpad, like if you want to use a mouse. You might really appreciate this feature if, like me, you ever do any serious writing.

best,
mw

[keno]

Vista sucks, as far as I am concerned, not because it is different but because it sucks. My Ottrott is different from my other bikes and we get along better than fine because it doesn't suck.

The applications my wife uses the Pavilion for are very basic; email, browsing and pictures (not editing them).

1. It seems that every task is accompanied by more pop ups than an FBI shooting range. More steps seem to be needed than for similar operations in XP.

2. The biggest issue is that most every time there is an upgrade to Vista, the PC becomes unable to get the signal from the Belkin router next to my machine. It is clearly MS and Vista that is the issue. Some times one fix works, some times it doesn't. I end up having to spend too much time when none should ever be needed.

If there are features in Vista that have been added and make life better for the sophisticated user, fine, but for many the changes do not enhance what were already fine solutions in XP. While for some, problems have been solved, for others, like her and me, MS only created problems.

keno

[Keith A]

I haven't figured out why so many people have a problem with an operating system. I think most people have an issue just because it's "different" Known vs. unknown and like that.

Don't tell me you never had any problems with XP?Ginger -- I'm in the software development field and my primary job is writing code, but I've recently had to get more into the IT area. I will say that Vista is not all bad, but in general is a pain to deal with. We have some customers that have no problem running our product on Vista, but that isn't true for all of our Vista users. The permissions thing will drive you nuts, they ask a half dozen times before they actually do something like delete a file (yes I'm exaggerting a bit). The interface sure looks pretty such as the transparent window frames, but it is a huge resource hog. I do know that you can turn off all the pretty stuff and it will run faster.

I've been doing this for a while and have used DOS, Windows 3.1, 95, 98, ME, NT, and XP, along with several flavors of Unix (SGI, Sun and HP) and Linux. I'm typically all about the latest and greatest, but I'd like to be able to completely skip Vista, in the hopes that Windows 7 (due out in 2009) is a better OS.

[Pete Serotta]

Vista does suck! Without our Censor application we can now say that ;)


Based on your applications get the apple and never look back.

Vista sucks, as far as I am concerned, not because it is different but because it sucks. My Ottrott is different from my other bikes and we get along better than fine because it doesn't suck.

The applications my wife uses the Pavilion for are very basic; email, browsing and pictures (not editing them).

1. It seems that every task is accompanied by more pop ups than an FBI shooting range. More steps seem to be needed than for similar operations in XP.

2. The biggest issue is that most every time there is an upgrade to Vista, the PC becomes unable to get the signal from the Belkin router next to my machine. It is clearly MS and Vista that is the issue. Some times one fix works, some times it doesn't. I end up having to spend too much time when none should ever be needed.

If there are features in Vista that have been added and make life better for the sophisticated user, fine, but for many the changes do not enhance what were already fine solutions in XP. While for some, problems have been solved, for others, like her and me, MS only created problems.

keno

[RudAwkning]

The problem with Vista, is like that of most Microsoft products. It was released in "beta". Those who purchase the software on date of release are the real testers. I never consider a Microsoft product "released" until Service Pack 1 comes out.

[WadePatton]

The problem with Vista, is like that of most Microsoft products. It was released in "beta". Those who purchase the software on date of release are the real testers. I never consider a Microsoft product "released" until Service Pack 1 comes out.
gets it. ;)

[William]

I can't comment on the Vista quandry, but I just expanded the memory on my Mac and then loaded Leopard today. Both easy as pie and and things are running great. I don't think you can go wrong on the Apple refurbs. Great deals to be had there. Powermax has always been a straight shooter for me and they have good deals on refurbs and out of boxes.

The time is right Keno. Cross over..... :)





William

[Len J]

:crap: I can't comment on the Vista quandry, but I just expanded the memory on my Mac and then loaded Leopard today. Both easy as pie and and things are running great. I don't think you can go wrong on the Apple refurbs. Great deals to be had there. Powermax has always been a straight shooter for me and they have good deals on refurbs and out of boxes.

The time is right Keno. Cross over..... :)







William


Len's Rules:

1.) When I buy a new laptop (& I just did Lenovo T61 V), I order it preloaded with XP. Vista is still BETA, and an upgrade for the sake of upgrade.

2.) Apple is way overrated.

3.) If you need your computer for any corporate use, Apple is overrated to the 3rd power. Running a DualBoot/windows partition is twice the work for 1/2 the benefit. Good Windows software is as good as any Apple software in actual use. The rest is Kool-Aid.


(Oh yeah, I'm very happy with my 2 YO IPOD with the built in Battery that is now dead and it will cost me $50+ to get it replaced.......... :crap: )

Len

[michael white]

:crap:





(Oh yeah, I'm very happy with my 2 YO IPOD with the built in Battery that is now dead and it will cost me $50+ to get it replaced.......... :crap: )

Len

YOU got an ipod to last 2 whole years?
Not much into music?
for me, Ipods (like most electronics) are about like socks, except that socks last much, much longer.

[Len J]

YOU got an ipod to last 2 whole years?
Not much into music?
for me, Ipods (like most electronics) are about like socks, except that socks last much, much longer.

I use it constantly....just PO's me that I can't easily (or reasonably) change the battery.

Len

[S.Speedo]

1.) When I buy a new laptop (& I just did Lenovo T61 V), I order it preloaded with XP. Vista is still BETA, and an upgrade for the sake of upgrade.

2.) Apple is way overrated.

3.) If you need your computer for any corporate use, Apple is overrated to the 3rd power. Running a DualBoot/windows partition is twice the work for 1/2 the benefit. Good Windows software is as good as any Apple software in actual use. The rest is Kool-Aid.



I was convinced of all this stuff too, and told people what you just posted, year after year for a decade.

And then, a year and a half ago, someone gave me one.

Three months later, I replaced every pc in my company with an Apple. They've been 100% easy and painless for a year and a half, and we use them for administration (they run MS office natively), graphics, video, audio recording, even CAD work. Cut my IT budget 80%. No BS. Good stuff, with a good company behind it.

There's a reason the Kool-Aid is that strong.

iPods are toys. I don't use em.

[CarbonCycles]

meh..let it die

[BoulderGeek]

My 20 years of paid computer integration and management of heterogeneous networks drives me to say, Upgrade from Vista. Go OS X.

Len's very detailed and scientific "Apples are overrated" comment may indeed be true.

But, they also work in 64-bit, run on hardware far better made than anything from Dell and Gateway, and at lower cost for indentical configs, mostof the time.

And OS X is UNIX. And UNIX runs the world's banks, infrastructure and medical devices.

Windows is crap.

Hard to believe that people who see the beauty and functionality of gorgeous bicycle hardware like we all own can still compromise and accept such substandard tripe as Microsoft puts out under the myth of "Operating Systems."

But, as they say, we can't all drink wine. Most people have to be satisfied with water. I feel that the people who accept and defend Windows just never used anything that didn't suck. Which is sad. But, quality costs.

This is not to imply that Apples, OS X or UNIX are perfect. But, at least they work, generally as expected.

Happily typed on a MacBookPro, 3GB RAM/160GB SATA/2.4GHz T7700 (currently the strongest laptop at the South Pole).

[William]

Well now,
I think some of you responded to Len better then I could. Your experiences are similar to my own. I know a number of people who use Mac in the work place with no issues that I'm aware of.


William


http://www.joyoftech.com/joyoftech/joyimages/525.gif

:p :D :p

[Len J]

My 20 years of paid computer integration and management of heterogeneous networks drives me to say, Upgrade from Vista. Go OS X.

Len's very detailed and scientific "Apples are overrated" comment may indeed be true.

But, they also work in 64-bit, run on hardware far better made than anything from Dell and Gateway, and at lower cost for indentical configs, mostof the time.

And OS X is UNIX. And UNIX runs the world's banks, infrastructure and medical devices.

Windows is crap.

Hard to believe that people who see the beauty and functionality of gorgeous bicycle hardware like we all own can still compromise and accept such substandard tripe as Microsoft puts out under the myth of "Operating Systems."

But, as they say, we can't all drink wine. Most people have to be satisfied with water. I feel that the people who accept and defend Windows just never used anything that didn't suck. Which is sad. But, quality costs.

This is not to imply that Apples, OS X or UNIX are perfect. But, at least they work, generally as expected.

Happily typed on a MacBookPro, 3GB RAM/160GB SATA/2.4GHz T7700 (currently the strongest laptop at the South Pole).

Try being a traveling business turnaround consultant, and go into a normal business and try to use your MAC laptop and easily integrate with their internal network..........trust me, it either ain't happening or it's going to suck all kinds of resources in trying to figure it out.

I suspect your comments about cheaper, easier etc....only apply to businesses that are 100% apple.......a very very low % of businesses.

The real world intrudes.

Len

[Pete Serotta]

+1 and the T61 is a wonderful machine (No VISTA though(. XP PRO had many problems when it first came out BUT it has been out over 4 years ad at least 2 service pack updates.


NON CORPORATE = APPLE WONEDERFUL

BUSINESS WORLD and APPLE have some limitations....

Nothing ever as good or as bad as we think,,,, :p :p

:crap:


Len's Rules:

1.) When I buy a new laptop (& I just did Lenovo T61 V), I order it preloaded with XP. Vista is still BETA, and an upgrade for the sake of upgrade.

2.) Apple is way overrated.

3.) If you need your computer for any corporate use, Apple is overrated to the 3rd power. Running a DualBoot/windows partition is twice the work for 1/2 the benefit. Good Windows software is as good as any Apple software in actual use. The rest is Kool-Aid.


(Oh yeah, I'm very happy with my 2 YO IPOD with the built in Battery that is now dead and it will cost me $50+ to get it replaced.......... :crap: )

Len

[Pete Serotta]

Len, but a new 2 GIG shuffle for $69.

[michael white]

They're all just tools. It's what you do with it that matters.

I was once a long-term diehard Mac user. The first half of my professional career was all Mac and Mac software. I still like the stuff, but I got over it, mostly due to an academic environment where I absolutely had to communicate in a PC world.

Now I use whatever works. I am a writer/professor with a significant body of work, so these choices do reflect a huge amount of my life.

Mostly, what I need now is a current copy of Office, a nice keyboard, and I'm good. I could pretty much give a **** about the rest.

You're talking about tools and toolmakers. All computers are garbage in a few years. Pick up the tool and use it.

best,
mw

[keno]

but I didn't intend to start a PC/Apple thing. But now that I have, how little can I spend to get into a decent screen-size Apple notebook, new, used, refurbed, that can link to my Belkin and do what my wife needs to do (beyond email, browing, and pictures, looking at the occasional excel spreadsheet, reading or creating an MS word document, seeing a Power Point slide show, that is, the MS Office stuff)?

Model numbers, sellers, $ and links is what I really want.

Incidentally, I'm very happy with my six year old Presario and XP Pro, and until meltdown expect to continue to be so. (I have 164K miles on my Audi 2.7 T, A6 and feel the same way about it. Good enough to do the 800 or so miles to get me to and from Too Tall's camp.) Pretty is as pretty does as far as I am concerned.

keno

[DukeHorn]

The question is whether you can build a PC with an Antec 900 case, overclock the Intel E6750 chip you picked out to 3.0, toss in a Nvidia 8800GT card, 4 gigs of Gskill Ram, a 550W Corsair psu etc. for less than $700. And you can.

If you want a fast computer with the best components, you build your own (and you can't do that with a Mac).

A lot of folks on this forum like to customize and build your own bikes, why wouldn't you do the same with your computer (oh, because it's nerdy?? :D).

[keno]

Huh?

keno

[sc53]

Keno, CNY Rider just bought his wife a Mac laptop at Amazon for something like $1100--check his recent thread [in the last couple of days] for other recommendations that were made to him for places to buy Mac laptops. Here's the link: http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=43417

[BoulderGeek]

I'm a UNIX systems and network administrator. I can integrate Mac OS X, Linux and even Windows into various environments. I've climbed the learning curve.

I get paid to make Windows work (poorly, usually. Sometimes making it work at all is Herculean).

When I spend my own money, and don't want to mess with junk, I have bought Apples. Bought my first one in 1987, and my most recent one in November.

I also get paid to work on hundred thousand dollar Cisco switches and large Sun installations.

I think Windows functioning well is as much of a concocted lie as "they will welcome us as liberators," "The surge is working," and "The check is in the mail." Plus a little "I am the recently deposed Nigerian Finance Minister."

I've been working on PCs since 1981, so I've built and seen everything. Sorry, Just don't buy that Windows has any value to the consumer. If it's business, let your IT department maintain it for you. If you want Windows at home, you're either a hardcore gamer, or your time and money are valueless to you.

I adore my Serotta Nove, too. Quality is evident. The absence of quality, moreso.

It's all just opinion, and I think you guys are great.



Try being a traveling business turnaround consultant, and go into a normal business and try to use your MAC laptop and easily integrate with their internal network..........trust me, it either ain't happening or it's going to suck all kinds of resources in trying to figure it out.

I suspect your comments about cheaper, easier etc....only apply to businesses that are 100% apple.......a very very low % of businesses.

The real world intrudes.

Len

[FMS_rider]

Thanks to Keno for starting this thread and to the others who have contributed to saving me from a major hassle at the 11th hour.

My 5 year old laptop with XPpro is in its death throws (blue screens about every hour from 2 different hardware problems) and I had ordered a new one with Vista on Saturday with the intent of switching it to XPpro as soon as it arrived. After learning what a pain in the @ss that switch might be from this thread and some Googlling it inspired, I was able to cancel the order and am now looking for one that comes with XPpro installed (I will probably go with a Dell 1520). I would love to purchase an Mac (I just bought one for my daughter), but have several proprietary programs I use at work that are PC-only.

Lew

[michael white]

glad you worked it out!
most people I know would say 5 years on a laptop is really good going (our life cycle at work is 3 years Mac or PC), so you're definitely getting your money's worth.

have a good day.
mw

[Skrawny]

I made the mistake of buying a (very nice) Vista machine from Dell.

Now Adobe Photoshop fails to show all of my RAW (NEF) files in the browser.
I have about 3200 images stored and I cannot see the majority of them.

I am very bitter toward Adobe and Microsoft right now. If I could "do-over." I would get a Mac and Aperture.

-s

[CarbonCycles]

I would love to purchase an Mac (I just bought one for my daughter), but have several proprietary programs I use at work that are PC-only.

Lew

Um, so why not use a VM program or dual-boot. I don't know if you realize this, but all the hardware that goes into an apple is the same schtuff that would go into a PC. Heck, an apple runs VISTA better than most PCs run that fat-heifer. However, ymmv.

BTW, corporate america is eyeing the next 3G iphone as a replacement to RIM's less than spectacular service within the last few months (i.e. major service outages covering North America...whoops).

[davyt]

<snip> Look, going back to XP is just a stop-gap. The river of technology doesn't run backward.
Very true (http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/04/windows-7-to-arrive-next-year-says-bill-gates/)...

PS: one of the great things about HP is the on/off touchpad. Try turning off a Mac touchpad, like if you want to use a mouse. You might really appreciate this feature if, like me, you ever do any serious writing.
With Tiger (Mac OS 10.4) it's pretty easy: From "System Preferences" select "Keyboard & Mouse", select "Trackpad" and check "Ignore trackpad when mouse is present"...

[Keith A]

News flash...Microsoft to extend sales (again) of XP until June 2010...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
April 3, 2008 11:17 AM PDT
Cnet news.com
Microsoft will extend life of Windows XP--again
Posted by Ina Fried
MIAMI

As I predicted last week, Microsoft has decided to extend the life of Windows XP, although only for a limited class of machines.

Microsoft said on Thursday that it will continue to allow Windows XP Home edition to be sold for a class of computers it calls "ultra-low-cost PCs." It's a category that covers machines with slower processors, smaller screens, and in many cases flash memory for storage, rather than a traditional hard drive.

Microsoft will give PC makers the option of using Windows XP or Vista on ULCPC devices, said Michael Dix, general manager of Windows client marketing.

Still, the minimal hardware used in ULCPC systems might make Vista ill-suited to such a task. The decision to discontinue Windows XP might have driven even more device makers into the hands of Linux, hence the extension.

Overall, big-name computer makers are still scheduled to have to stop selling Windows XP for all other uses by the end of June. Mainstream technical support will continue to be available for Windows XP through April 2009, and more limited support will continue through April 2014.

Dix said that Microsoft is confident that it can discontinue Windows XP at the end of June for mainstream PCs. "We have received affirming feedback from partners that they are ready to make the transition," he said.

Computer makers will be able to sell XP Home on new ULCPC machines through June 30, 2010, or one year after the launch of Windows 7, the next major release of Windows, whichever is later, Microsoft said.

A Microsoft representative on Thursday reaffirmed that the company expects to ship the successor to Vista roughly three years from Vista's January 2007 debut.

Microsoft is also publishing a set of guidelines Thursday designed to make it easier for makers of flash-based computers to use Windows. Many of these initial devices have launched running Linux, though some, such as the Eee PC from Asus, are also being offered in Windows versions.

Microsoft has already extended the Windows XP sales deadline once. In September, it said that computer makers would be able to sell Windows XP until June, rather than the original January 2008 deadline.

At the time, Microsoft also announced that computer makers in emerging markets could sell Windows XP Starter edition until June 2010.

For Microsoft, Wednesday's announcement is an acknowledgment of two things. First, that Starter Edition alone does not fulfill all of the emerging market demand, and second, that developed markets are also showing interest in low-power, low-cost laptops.

[giordana93]

Thanks to Keno for starting this thread and to the others who have contributed to saving me from a major hassle at the 11th hour.

My 5 year old laptop with XPpro is in its death throws (blue screens about every hour from 2 different hardware problems) and I had ordered a new one with Vista on Saturday with the intent of switching it to XPpro as soon as it arrived. After learning what a pain in the @ss that switch might be from this thread and some Googlling it inspired, I was able to cancel the order and am now looking for one that comes with XPpro installed (I will probably go with a Dell 1520). I would love to purchase an Mac (I just bought one for my daughter), but have several proprietary programs I use at work that are PC-only.

Lew

it was noted, but I'll re-state: Vista runs on Mac. check this out:
macbook-pro-is-the-fastest-windows-vista-notebook (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/irony/macbook-pro-is-the-fastest-windows-vista-notebook-317060.php)

I've been running mac in an all-windows university environment for 15+ years. the integration nowadays is pretty seamless. I've got the basic i-mac, and it just rocks. computers are like religion, so I won't proselytize any more than that, but the unix-based os x that can boot natively in windows (and runs it as fast as a dell...) is pretty compelling. plus if you don't end up liking a mac, you flip it on ebay and lose %10-20 of your investment, not 30-40 percent. just saying...

[keno]

When I asked my wife why she wanted a laptop rather than a desktop, she said, "Duh, so I can work on the deck during nice weather (starting June 1 she will be a consultant to, rather than an employee of, LEH at her own initiative spending two days a week in the office, and may have engagements with other firms, as well, in the areas of corporate talent management, learning, and leadership development).

So, how do Mac screens perform in sunlight, I'm guessing in the preferred gunfighter's orientation to the sun?

keno

[michael white]

Very true (http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/04/windows-7-to-arrive-next-year-says-bill-gates/)...


With Tiger (Mac OS 10.4) it's pretty easy: From "System Preferences" select "Keyboard & Mouse", select "Trackpad" and check "Ignore trackpad when mouse is present"...


thanks, but for users like me, who spend nearly all their time on a computer actually typing words, I want a button so I can hit it right now. It's either that or a desktop. I've never been a clean typist, I don't know why, even though my livelihood depends on it. I've heard you can do disable procedure on a lot of laptops. There are lots of threads on blogs devoted to this issue; I'm not the only one with this problem.

You guys with a huge attachment to OS . . . Hmmmm. It's Campy vs. Shimano. I've been there, done that . . . Now I have a Mavic bike, a Suntour bike, a Campy Super Record bike, etc. I reject a black/white universe. I feel empowered using a little of everything. (Although to be honest I just gave away my last Mac, and old Imac, a month or so ago.) I do use Mac sometimes still, in fact I typed an essay on a Macbook Pro just a couple of weeks ago. Nice. I liked the keyboard, but it wasn't hugely better as a tool, just a little different.

have a good day,
mw

[FMS_rider]

Um, so why not use a VM program or dual-boot. I don't know if you realize this, but all the hardware that goes into an apple is the same schtuff that would go into a PC. Heck, an apple runs VISTA better than most PCs run that fat-heifer. However, ymmv.

BTW, corporate america is eyeing the next 3G iphone as a replacement to RIM's less than spectacular service within the last few months (i.e. major service outages covering North America...whoops). I did consider running XP on a MacBook Pro but have had too many experiences with things that should work, but end up costing me considerable time to make them actually work (I have played the hide-and-seek driver game far too many times). I also have had unpleasant experiences with dual boot setups. If I were running standard applications I would not be concerned, but unfortunately that is not the case. I ended up ordering a new "loaded" scratch-and-dent Dell 1520 laptop with XPpro for $689 that almost certainly will allow me to be off and running within minutes of receiving it. I do medical research (neurophysiology) and computers are just tools for automating data acquisition and analysis so I look for simple, cheap, and hassle-free.

But thanks for trying to help.
Lew

[CarbonCycles]

Lew,

I truly understand and sympathize with you when you mention the hide-n-seek game with drivers. The great thing about both XP & Leopard is that both products are fairly mature in their life cycles; therefore, they support a wide arrange of "off the shelf" products. Either way, it sounds like you got a great deal on a laptop that serves your needs. :beer:

Btw, what kind of work are you doing that requires the windows environment? If you don't mind me asking in public.


Cheers...

I did consider running XP on a MacBook Pro but have had too many experiences with things that should work, but end up costing me considerable time to make them actually work (I have played the hide-and-seek driver game far too many times). I also have had unpleasant experiences with dual boot setups. If I were running standard applications I would not be concerned, but unfortunately that is not the case. I ended up ordering a new "loaded" scratch-and-dent Dell 1520 laptop with XPpro for $689 that almost certainly will allow me to be off and running within minutes of receiving it. I do medical research (neurophysiology) and computers are just tools for automating data acquisition and analysis so I look for simple, cheap, and hassle-free.

But thanks for trying to help.
Lew