New Wheel Advice....

[Acotts]

So, I was bummed that there was no group ride this saturday. So to cheer me up I put my Bontrager XXX race-lite carbon tubulars onto the Fierte and went for a 50 miler. Ususally, these wheels are used with my Kestrel tri bike and are only used for races. This was the first time that I have ever put them onto the Serotta.

Anyways, I had the best ride I have had in years. I was feeling very strong, and my bike has never felt better.

I was just amazed by how much better the bike rode, especially on the hills. I think i averaged a good 2-3 mph faster than normal.

Anyways, I got to thinking. Since I am riding the fixed as the daily commuter, I only really use the Serotta for longer weekend rides. Why dont I ride on wheels like this every Saturday? Why use beaters wheels on for my weekend joy ride.

I HAVE TASTED THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT AND NOW I MUST HAVE IT! Steel and carbon go soo well together! (for the first time in my life I really understood how a great bike is supposed to feel. The difference was in that feeling of quick and easy accelleration and keeping the wheels gonig fast once they got going.. I dont know if that is a carbon thing, or a light wheel thing.)

I considered making the switch permanent but I wont becuase they are Tublulars which I dont ever want to have to change during a group ride, and I want to keep the wheels in tip top shape for races.

So, now I am looking for a new set of wheels. The Fierte is not a commuter bike anymore, it does not deserve beater wheels?

I have been on this forum lon enough to know that everyone is going to say, "go custom!"

Here is my issue. I realized yesterday that I LOVE light wheels. I think
the XXXlite wheels come in around 1350 grams and I think it really helped on the hills and I was able to get the bike up to speed much quicker.

It seems to me that all the custom wheels use pretty standard rims such as Open Pros.

I like light, I like carbon (I think), and I need clinchers.

So, what are my options? What kind of great climbing wheels should I be looking at for once a week 50-80 milers? Am I mistaken in my perception of the whole custom wheel building process? Can they build sub 1400 gram wheels. Will it cost through the roof?

I am also about 200 pounds? The wheels need to support me.

I would also like to stick to the 1k-1.5k price range.

THnaks folks.

-A

[97CSI]

Was going to offer you a new set of the Ksyrium Es wheels for ~$700. But, with your budget you would probably want to offer $1000;-)

Most custom wheels are made with 'Open Pro'-like rims for a reason. Most all factory built wheels use custom rim/spoke/hub configurations that are integrated in a high-tension design. Mixing and matching without the mechanical design information would not work out very well. As these folks want to sell their factory built wheels, they limit the options available for 'custom' wheels. The high-end factory built stuff is very nice these days.

[Fixed]

just ride your tubs bro that is what made your bike feel that way
imho ..unless your rich why have wheels sitting around getting old and out dated one thought imho
cheers

[mschol17]

I would PM Marcus Torino about his DT Swiss/Niobium 25 tubular wheels FS in the classifieds. Pretty light, and an amazing deal.

[yim]

corima aero+ clinchers in your price range.

Not very light (1550g) but adequate for climbing.

IMO, light weight is not the only factor of a good climbing wheel.

The elasticity is another factor to consider.

[Chris]

http://www.rolwheels.com/2008-Wheels/ROL-Matrix-58.html Sean is a stand up guy.

[Darrell]

200 ks {Kilometres}
two bananas
two water bottles
get lean for climbing

and the biggest performance gain to be had is go to bed early {turn off the toxic swill on the TV}
and get up when the alarm goes off
and ride.
and don't eat food that comes out of a package.

Oh, for wheels for 200lbs
36 hole, Shimano or Campy hubs, Ambrosio FSC28 rims with DT Champion spokes all round.
25 c tyres min size.

Seriously, do you think 200 grams or even 500 grams in the wheels makes any effect unless you are 15mm skin fold over 8 sites and your watts per kilo is over 6 nudging 7?

Get realiable wheels, live the life of riding and fitness, not the equipment.

Harsh but can I claim it was the 15 years work with our national team that makes me grumpy.

[Francophile]

Ahh, hang it. Take out a loan. Get some lightweights. The new fancy jobbies. Put silk tubulars on 'em. You can't get faster than that. :banana:









...................and once you have destroyed them on your training rides, you will have learned why sensible bike riders have solid conservative wheels for training. You will be the proud owner of some very light and expensive land fill, but think of the positive impact you will be making on the economy. :D

[soulspinner]

200 ks {Kilometres}
two bananas
two water bottles
get lean for climbing

and the biggest performance gain to be had is go to bed early {turn off the toxic swill on the TV}
and get up when the alarm goes off
and ride.
and don't eat food that comes out of a package.

Oh, for wheels for 200lbs
36 hole, Shimano or Campy hubs, Ambrosio FSC28 rims with DT Champion spokes all round.
25 c tyres min size.

Seriously, do you think 200 grams or even 500 grams in the wheels makes any effect unless you are 15mm skin fold over 8 sites and your watts per kilo is over 6 nudging 7?

Get realiable wheels, live the life of riding and fitness, not the equipment.

Harsh but can I claim it was the 15 years work with our national team that makes me grumpy.

Harsh but so true...

[sg8357]

and the biggest performance gain to be had is go to bed early {turn off the toxic swill on the TV}
and get up when the alarm goes off
and ride.
and don't eat food that comes out of a package..


Dazza you have just destroyed the whole US high end bike industry.
Also most the "food" industry.

I guess the punters will have to go back to riding PX-10s now.

Note to the class, this what happens when Dazza has to polish
a stainless bottom bracket shell.

[ClutchCargo]

corima aero+ clinchers in your price range.

Not very light (1550g) but adequate for climbing.

IMO, light weight is not the only factor of a good climbing wheel.

The elasticity is another factor to consider.

He had some Corima Winiums and Aeros for sale not too long ago.

[giordana93]

Harsh but so true...
harsh, but true, but not what the poster was asking. I don't think he said, "I really want to beat this other guy up the climb and need some help." He said, he likes the ride of a nice light wheelset, and though not explicitly, "I like the ride of a nice tubular," as fixed pointed out. If he's all ready to spend $1k on wheels, let him do it and give a suggestion, not a "weight doesn't matter" argument, which is bull. i.e. does weight matter for me doing my 90 minute loop 20 seconds faster? no, I have a full seat bag with tools, 2 tubes, a frame fit pump and two full water bottles on a steel frame, and plain old Open Pros and average quality clinchers. But if I get my old Mavic GL 330's with Vittoria silks pumped up nicely, the ride just sings and there is an extra step in my accelerations. Seriously, who out there goes out of their way to get a heavier tire/wheel combo just for durability for an average (i.e. not urban war zone or fire roads) roadie: you running 40 spokes and gum wall touring tires? I didn't think so.

wow, must of had too much coffee this morning to inspire a soap box rant. sorry.

so my advice to OP: tubulars definitely had something to do with your experience, and as the topic has been beaten to death, a given tubular rim at the same weight as a clincher will be inherently stronger, given the same box section. If you spent a little less on the wheels, you could buy plenty of back up tubulars with the change, or buy some new tub's for the race wheels and recycle the others on your daily wheels... or just buy the fancy carbon clinchers others suggest, just don't expect that tubular magic. lightweight magic, which is addictive, yes, but not the same ride quality.

[fiamme red]

200 ks {Kilometres}
two bananas
two water bottles
get lean for climbing

and the biggest performance gain to be had is go to bed early {turn off the toxic swill on the TV}
and get up when the alarm goes off
and ride.
and don't eat food that comes out of a package.

Oh, for wheels for 200lbs
36 hole, Shimano or Campy hubs, Ambrosio FSC28 rims with DT Champion spokes all round.
25 c tyres min size.

Seriously, do you think 200 grams or even 500 grams in the wheels makes any effect unless you are 15mm skin fold over 8 sites and your watts per kilo is over 6 nudging 7?

Get realiable wheels, live the life of riding and fitness, not the equipment.

Harsh but can I claim it was the 15 years work with our national team that makes me grumpy.This should be a sticky.

[zap]

In your price range, you should be able to find a new set of Bontrager xxx clinchers. Custom builds that are close in weight to these Bontragers are not going to be as solid.

[cmg]

You have plenty of options. Check out the nimble spyders or the cydesdale http://www.nimble.net/ Check odds and endos. i have a set of Velocity aeroheads/american classic hubs/DB spokes 1460grs http://www.oddsandendos.com/main.sc or find yourself a local builder, if one exists, buy parts from Alchemy bike works and have him build it. http://www.alchemybicycleworks.com/ABW%20Price%20List%2002-14-08.pdf they carry lighter rims than Mavic OP, lots DB spokes and hubs. They carry the 30mm nobium rim, you can build a light wheelset from. or find a set of American classic sprint 350s, a really light rim, go with heavier spokes on the drive side. As long as you stay with 28 spoked front wheel and 32 spoked rear minimums you can build as light as your budget allows.

[MilanoTom]

harsh, but true, but not what the poster was asking. I don't think he said, "I really want to beat this other guy up the climb and need some help." He said, he likes the ride of a nice light wheelset, and though not explicitly, "I like the ride of a nice tubular," as fixed pointed out. If he's all ready to spend $1k on wheels, let him do it and give a suggestion, not a "weight doesn't matter" argument, which is bull. i.e. does weight matter for me doing my 90 minute loop 20 seconds faster? no, I have a full seat bag with tools, 2 tubes, a frame fit pump and two full water bottles on a steel frame, and plain old Open Pros and average quality clinchers. But if I get my old Mavic GL 330's with Vittoria silks pumped up nicely, the ride just sings and there is an extra step in my accelerations. Seriously, who out there goes out of their way to get a heavier tire/wheel combo just for durability for an average (i.e. not urban war zone or fire roads) roadie: you running 40 spokes and gum wall touring tires? I didn't think so.

wow, must of had too much coffee this morning to inspire a soap box rant. sorry.

so my advice to OP: tubulars definitely had something to do with your experience, and as the topic has been beaten to death, a given tubular rim at the same weight as a clincher will be inherently stronger, given the same box section. If you spent a little less on the wheels, you could buy plenty of back up tubulars with the change, or buy some new tub's for the race wheels and recycle the others on your daily wheels... or just buy the fancy carbon clinchers others suggest, just don't expect that tubular magic. lightweight magic, which is addictive, yes, but not the same ride quality.

Your "soap box rant" was well taken, but there's still room for a bit of a reality check. It's fine to dig ("love" sounds a bit too fetish-like) high end light wheels, but there's probably not a whole lot of to substantiate that they're really helping the average, or even above aveage rider to get up hills more than marginally faster or get up to speed very much quicker. I hate to say it, but any perceived improvement was probably as much a placebo effect as anything.

Heck, I'd love to get a set of Boras someday. Will they make me a better rider? Nah, but they'd still be cool as crap to have.

Tom

[ColdRider]

Hi Ascott,

although I agree that we mustn't go crazy with weight concerns, there is nothing wrong with pampering oneself from time to time. Weight off the wheels is probably the most noticeable place to lose it, or give us the greatest placebo boost :) . General consensus is that handbuilts are going to be a better bang for the buck (new) then pre-built.

Here are a couple of suggestions that come up frequently, and cost are usually related to how light the hubs are...

1- Affordable Alu Clinchers
Niobium (Kinlin) 19 or 30mm clinchers (~400g and 455 per, respectively)
Extralite/Tune/White Industry hubs (220g, 265, 300)
CX-Ray($$$) or DT Revo+Comp spokes

Those sets are going to run about 500$ to 800$ (don't quote me on this!) and be under 1450g.

2- Expensive Carbon Clinchers
Edge Composite Clinchers 38mm (405g)
Same hubs
Same spokes

I do not want to get into the "do carbon clinchers make sense" debate, just giving Ascott the options that are out there. Those clinchers are the latest and greatest... with price to match. 800$ per rim. I think Reynolds offers some aftermarket Carbon clinchers also. Add everything up and it bust your budget, but there has never been any harm in window shopping.

3- "Affordable" Carbon clinchers :rolleyes:
Reynolds Attack 1485g (not sure if clinchers tho...)

I have seen these guys "used" for about 900$. They are around 1700$ new I think.

I am not a wheelbuilder and I don't even play one on TV, so your best bet would be to contact some wheelbuilders out there Ligero, Alchemy, Ergott or Odds and endos. With all that said, I would take a good look at jimcav's wheels (winium and aero+), those are some nice wheels. For super lightweights, you would have to look at tubulars.

Have fun dreaming those up =)

[Acotts]

harsh, but true, but not what the poster was asking. I don't think he said, "I really want to beat this other guy up the climb and need some help." He said, he likes the ride of a nice light wheelset, and though not explicitly, "I like the ride of a nice tubular," as fixed pointed out. If he's all ready to spend $1k on wheels, let him do it and give a suggestion, not a "weight doesn't matter" argument, which is bull. i.e. does weight matter for me doing my 90 minute loop 20 seconds faster? no, I have a full seat bag with tools, 2 tubes, a frame fit pump and two full water bottles on a steel frame, and plain old Open Pros and average quality clinchers. But if I get my old Mavic GL 330's with Vittoria silks pumped up nicely, the ride just sings and there is an extra step in my accelerations. Seriously, who out there goes out of their way to get a heavier tire/wheel combo just for durability for an average (i.e. not urban war zone or fire roads) roadie: you running 40 spokes and gum wall touring tires? I didn't think so.

wow, must of had too much coffee this morning to inspire a soap box rant. sorry.

so my advice to OP: tubulars definitely had something to do with your experience, and as the topic has been beaten to death, a given tubular rim at the same weight as a clincher will be inherently stronger, given the same box section. If you spent a little less on the wheels, you could buy plenty of back up tubulars with the change, or buy some new tub's for the race wheels and recycle the others on your daily wheels... or just buy the fancy carbon clinchers others suggest, just don't expect that tubular magic. lightweight magic, which is addictive, yes, but not the same ride quality.


THanks. I actually refrained from posting on this topic as it was turning into a "you cant buy speed thread" when I just liked the way my bike rode.

I think you spoke for me very well, and thanks for the advice.

-A

[Acotts]

Just to offer some perspective. I am currently running some 3 year old Krysrums that I bought for $250 new.

i dont think new wheels are a crazy investment for an otherwise fantastic bike.

[coloclimber]

I use my Bontrager XXX lite tubulars as everyday wheels and I weight around 180 lbs, (although I don't get to ride everyday). Why not?, its easy to carry some Pit Stop a pump and a cel phone, or even a spare tubular. They give off a real good ride quality. My XXX lites have lasted as my primary wheels for over 4 years. In that time, I have purchased and sold countless other wheelsets and the Bontragers still remain.

[Acotts]

The spoke count is so low on the wheels I just figured that there was no way to use them as everyday wheels. (or in my case, every weekend wheels.)

[malcolm]

If you are interested in Jimcav's wheels I can vouch for him. I bought some used topolino's from him for my wife and for the life of me I can't tell they arn't brand new, not a single blemish.

[giordana93]

well the rims of low spoke wheels are much stronger (and heavier) than higher spoke counts, both because they have to resist the high tensions of fewer spokes and because, well, there are fewer spokes to support the forces, so the rim has to be beefed up. It's why some people report that some of these low spoke wheels are bomb proof. they are. and they're heavier. My biggest worry about low spoke counts is this: I ride alone alot, and not close to well trafficed roads, and when you break a spoke on a 32 or 36 spoke wheel, you can usually open the quick release on the brake and hobble home. Don't think that's an option with low spoke count.

as for the placebo effect: sure, it exists, but trust me, when you go from a heavy clincher rim to some classic lightweight tubulars, like my gl 330's (that was the rim weight in principle), lose the wire bead for a tubie, pump that baby up nice and hard--without the ride turning harsh (and that's part of the tubular magic), and it's not a placebo, you can feel it. Terminal velocity might not be higher; in fact a good clincher has a lower rolling resistance; and aero trumps weight every time, unfortunately, so heavy aero wheels are faster than lighter on all but the steepest hill climbs. blah, blah.

anyway, if you are bored and want to run the mathematical models about weight versus aero and all that good stuff, check out
http://www.analyticcycling.com/


can't recall the exact numbers, but it confirms that even losing a pound has only a minimal effect on a climb

[Fixed]

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=42499&highlight=eddie%27s+shoes
some 330's
I like them better than the a.c. zipps i had
cheers

[Acotts]

Well Fixed, I think you were right in your first post. I think I should just stick with the wheels I have.


-A

[M.Sommers]

Well Fixed, I think you were right in your first post. I think I should just stick with the wheels I have.


-A

Bro Fixed is like Bruce Lee talking about how to "Be like water." Listen to Fixed, take the toys you have and play with them, use the XXX Race Light tubes. Arguing with Fixed is like arguing with Tom Hagen from 'The Godfather', like trying to jinx Tiger Woods on a one-foot gimme at Augusta or like trying to make a dolphin frown.

Hagen called the shots:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Al_Pacino_and_Robert_Duvall_in_the_Godfather .jpg

[cmg]

Take a look at these wheels, Blackset Race SL 700C, advertised weight of 1304g with 24f, 28r probably closer to 1400g when built with 28f, 32r. Way less than what you plan to spend. http://www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=98

It's difficult to get an aluminum clincher rim lower than 375g without going to a set of factory wheels. What is the weight of the Bontrager xxx lite rims?

[Bud_E]

Take a look at these wheels, Blackset Race SL 700C, advertised weight of 1304g with 24f, 28r probably closer to 1400g when built with 28f, 32r. Way less than what you plan to spend. http://www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=98

It's difficult to get an aluminum clincher rim lower than 375g without going to a set of factory wheels. What is the weight of the Bontrager xxx lite rims?

These specific wheels aside, have you ( or others ) had any experiences dealing with Bicycle Wheel Warehouse ?

[97CSI]

You might want to stay with something that is easily repaired. Primarily, that means parts availability. Mavic, DT, Campy, Shimano, etc. Almost all shops carry these wheels or parts or can get them quickly. Once you stray from the beaten-path, you may find parts availability to be long and slow. While I've never been let down by a wheel (ride either Mavic or Mavic/DT/Campy hubs and always have), I would not want to have my 'no/new-name' good-deal wheel have a problem.

[Fivethumbs]

Check out testrider.com (http://www.testrider.com/fly.aspx?layout=reviews&category=road) They test three different light weight wheel sets from Williams Cycling.

[CJH]

testrider.com "In cycling using the word traditional other than describing a Tour stage is usually not a good thing" ***?! Painfull BS...