Poll: Parlee z3c, serotta cda, spectrum butted titanium

[hooverone]

OK so this is the list I have to decide over, either a Serotta cda, with with a serotta fork, parlee z3c, or a Spectrum Titanium with a Reynolds fork and butted titanium, the parlee is the only bike that is not custom, and the Spectrum has the convenience of not needing to deal with a bike shop, the Serotta cda while nice has no dealer in my city but I could travel or order one from a dealer in another city/state

I am going to be able to test ride the parlee but I can not test ride a cda or a spectrum, although I am sure they both are great.


Jim

[flydhest]

Serotta CIII and a trip somewhere nice.

[Matt Barkley]

Go for the Spectrum Ti. Absolutely a lifetime keeper from Tom.(Why not steel) And of course keep your old heavy rig - as it too sounds like a comfy winner. :beer: - Matt

[dbrk]

Are you not considering the dramatic differences in price? Or is there less of a difference than I think? Not only do I want the most bike for the money but I won't pay what I think is just too much for what it is.

You can have the same quality of fitting from any of these sources, so I rank that point entirely moot.

Here's my view, though it will not necessarily be popular.
CDA: Too much money for bike, nearly $2400 for a TiG welded frame and fork? No way. The CIII is a far better value and not, imho, "less" bike.
Parlee: Gets stellar reviews but has less tweak-able geometries...still enough for my tastes, but if I didn't already have stellar steel and titanium bikes then I'd not look to carbon first.
Spectrum: One of the best values in titanium because it's coming from a great designer and it's a beautiful build quality. Since I am no Clydesdale the price of a Legend makes Spectrum look that much more attractive.

Conclusion: Spectrum Ti is the choice of the three for value and outcome.

dbrk

[christian]

As a Rambouillet and (soon-to-be, today, perhaps?) MXL owner, it shouldn't come as a surprise that I'm firmly in the camp of "keep the heavy." Unless it literally weighs a ton, a good fitting bike is hard to beat.

Of course, if you have new-bike-fever, then that vote won't do anything to dissuade you. In which case, of the three, I'd probably pick the Kellogg Ti. My friend Steve has one, and the bike is very nice, and his description of the buying process is exactly what I would look for in buying a custom bike.

- Christian

[jeffg]

from 3 different builders is not really an apples to apples comparison. I think it depends largely on what type of riding you do and what size you are. Here is my logic:

Fit: The most suspect here is a non-custom Parlee since the other bikes can be tweaked if needed. Parlee seems to have a sensible geometry is the middle sizes (I would get a 56 cm with a 73.5 HTA, 73 STA, 56 cm TT, 12cm stem, 43mm fork rake, etc.). My custom Parlee has a lower bb and CS and a 57cm TT, but this is what I would get if I had to get a stock Parlee (and I would likely get a Z2 ) ;) . Anyway, in the larger sizes the bikes start to do the stock Calfee, Seven deal and go for a steeper HTA (74 degrees) and a shorter rake (40mm). I personally find that this makes the bike handle poorly (see the "crit thing" thread for a series of views here).

Value: If you are not a big rider, the best values are CIII (steel) and a Spectrum Super or Concours, which cost about the same. The only real difference between the Legend and the Concours is the TT, and you get the CC tubes everywhere else. The Spectrum Super is double-butted as well. I think the Parlee is the same price for a stock frame, but if it fits it is an excellent carbon frame (many are sub-par so this is quite important).

Bottom line: All are wonderful bikes, but they are quite different in terms of ride and design. Let personal experience be your guide if you can. It seems you might want to nail down a frame material and then choose from a few bikes of same ilk.

Jeff

Legend Ti 2002
Hampsten/Parlee Z1 2003

[Ken Robb]

Can't Serotta make a Clll as stiff as anyone would want? I too, would choose a Clll over a Couer d'Acier. I rode the CdA and it rode like a nice, stiff, steel bike--just like our CSi. I wouldn't pay big bucks for carbon stays either.

[hooverone]

I am 6 foot 1 and weigh 203 some of that is just fat I need to loose in the midsection.

Here is the parlee sizing chart I would be using the

I would be using a x-large which has a 4.0 rake instead of what I see more commonly like a 4.3 so I am not sure how that will impact the ride.



http://www.parleecycles.com/pc_img2/z3c_size.gif

[Ozz]

...CDA: Too much money for bike, nearly $2400 for a TiG welded frame and fork?...

Is the CDA really $2400???? That's more than a CSI!!! I have to agree with dbrk.

I have not checked the pricing on one (not interested in carbon rear on steel) but that seems really steep for debatable performance gains.

I would go for the Spectrum....

[Serotta PETE]

Have you been fitted for a frame yet? - once knowing the measurements, it will assist you in determining which frame is best it terms sizing.

There is not a bad frame in the group, it comes down to fit, $$s, and personal likes.

PETE

[Bruce H.]

Given the choices, there are none. I ride a steel Serotta and love it, but having Tom Kellogg build you a custom anything is where it's at. Everyone I know who has a Spectrum adores them(only 6 people but I think that is a good sample).
When I pass a bike that catches my eye due to its flawless beauty, it invariably turns out to be a Spectrum. Since I live less than 50 miles from the Barn, in beautiful Bucks cty, Pa. I get to see many of them.
You will not be unhappy!
just my $.02
Bruce H.

[hooverone]

Seat Tube Length: 61.00
Seat Tube Angle: 73.00
Horizontal TT Length: 57.50
TT Downslope Angle: 3.00
Head Tube Angle: 73.50
Chainstay Length: 42.50
Rear Drop: 8.00

[coylifut]

I'm happy to report that my Spectrum is "all that and a bag of chips." I must also point out that I have no experience with the other 2 choices.

[bostondrunk]

You didn't say what your riding style is!!!
OK, my last choice would be the Serotta. Both for price, and the two other frame models you are comparing to.
If you are buying it as your main bike for lots of racing, I'd go with the Parlee. Carbon is great for racing, stiff and light and strong.
If more for general training, sunday riding and the odd race, definetily the Spectrum. In fact, even if mainly for racing, maybe the Spectrum anyway, since you get to be fit by Tom (I believe the frame itself is built in the Merlin factory to Tom's specs he sends them).

[Zarathustra]

What is retail price for the Z3?

Oh, and this is NOT an apples to apples comparison. We are talking about 3 bikes, 3 very different materials and 3 companies with very different approaches to making bicycles.
Just wanted to make sure we realize that straight, objective comparisons are out of the question.
:argue:

[vaxn8r]

It's hard to answer because it depends on what we already ride/own like DBRK alluded to.

I'd go Spectrum. I've always wanted one and I already own a Calfee. If I didn't I'd probably choose the Parlee...maybe.

No way I'd pay that much for steel and no matter what I got, I wouldn't put a rear CF stay on it. I'm a purist, go CF or don't.

[zap]

No disrespect to Tom, but isn't the Spectrum Ti just a custom Merlin Extralite that no one really cares for anymore? OK, one could argue the custom fit but if you're spending that much money.......

Parlee seems to be worthy and it is made of one of the best materials (carbon ;) ), but the Ottrott or Legend (non st) at the right price (demo deal ;) ) is something to consider as well.

I'm also of the opinion that if you have a "normal" body, sloping top tubes only belong on MTB and maybe cyclocross bikes.

Hooverone, just make sure you size the bike's tt with a 120 -130 stem.

[vaxn8r]

I wouldn't sell Spectrum short. Merlin does the basic build but with a unique "push weld" which is really smooth and trick looking. It's unique and gorgeuos. They also have as many different tubing sizes and custom butting choices as anyone, arguably more. A Spectrum is hardly a stock Merlin with different decals....not that there's anything wrong with that. :)

[coylifut]

No disrespect to Tom, but isn't the Spectrum Ti just a custom Merlin Extralite that no one really cares for anymore? OK, one could argue the custom fit but if you're spending that much money.......

Calling a man's life's work overpriced is disrespectful no matter how you prequalify it. Actually, a Merlin Extralite is "stock" Spectrum. Apparently people do care about Spectrums. I'm completely biased, I own one.

I'm also of the opinion that if you have a "normal" body, sloping top tubes only belong on MTB and maybe cyclocross bikes.

I felt the same way for years. However, when I showed up at the barn and checked out TK's personal (compact) ride and asked why? His answer convinced me and I'm glad I asked. My x-bike has a semi slopping top tube. I wish it didn't, it makes it slightly more difficult to shoulder it.

[OldDog]

Spectrum

[Dr. Doofus]

Your Doctor prescribes a Colorado III: spend what's left on a Record kit and an F2 fork.


Or, just get an Easton-tubed Rock Lobster...man, if my LBS wasn't going to make me a pariah for it, I'd go that way or the jerk's Flandria....

[Spectrum Bob]

Can anyone guess which one I would pick?

Spectrum Bob

P.S. I Love My Bike and the whole experience working with Tom. It is one of the few purchases I have made in my life that has so exceeded my expectations.

[jeffg]

Seat Tube Length: 61.00
Seat Tube Angle: 73.00
Horizontal TT Length: 57.50
TT Downslope Angle: 3.00
Head Tube Angle: 73.50
Chainstay Length: 42.50
Rear Drop: 8.00


Hooverone --

These are more than fit numbers, i.e. it is also frame geometry -- a geometry that is quite different from an XL Parlee Z3. I would really recommend trying a bike with the steeper HT angle/shorter fork rake (plus higher BB -- 6.7! and shorter CS) combination to see if you like it. Also, have you checked as to whether a stock Z3 is rated for 200+ lbs (it is about 1kg, after all).

I would agree with the Doctor that the CIII is the best bang for the buck. Given your size I would check with Kelly B. whether a Concours would work and with T. Kellog as to his recommendations. The folks building Ti for riders hovering around 200 lbs need to know their stuff, so I would stick with Serotta or Spectrum.

[vaxn8r]

Actually, a Merlin Extralite is "stock" Spectrum. Apparently people do care about Spectrums. I'm completely biased, I own one.



I really don't think a stock Merlin EL is a stock Spectrum. Kellog uses such a variety of tubes and butts. I guess you could ask for the standard EL tubeset Merlin uses but I don't think that's the way most people go. Kind of like ordering a custom Legend but telling Ben to do it stock, you could do it but why when you've paid for customization?

[vaxn8r]

Here's a thread with a quote by the man (Tom Kellog) himself. Scroll down to Tom's discussion of tubing options.

http://www.bikefanclub.com/forum/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3960/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1

[coylifut]

I really don't think a stock Merlin EL is a stock Spectrum. Kellog uses such a variety of tubes and butts. I guess you could ask for the standard EL tubeset Merlin uses but I don't think that's the way most people go. Kind of like ordering a custom Legend but telling Ben to do it stock, you could do it but why when you've paid for customization?

So, what you are saying is that my Spectrum isn't just a custom Merlin Extralite that no one really cares for anymore? I wondered why it rode so nice.

I'm crabby today. I think I'll go home and mow the lawn.

[bcm119]

Without knowing much about you, heres my suggestion:
CIII with Centaur or D/A, and Open Pros. Make sure you're honest about what you'll use it for with the fitter. Whatever group you pick, go with Campy cranks and a Phil BB. Go for the F2 fork, or spend the extra money on a sweet paint job. You'll have a beautiful custom bike and some extra money.

[dharleyd]

forget all 3 and get a time vxrs with record and topolino's.

[bags27]

I sat down with Tom Kellogg. He listened for about an hour. Then he watched me cycle on my favorite bike for about an hour. Then he spent an hour designing the bike and explainnig how it would meet my objectives and his observations about my riding. Then he showed me his painting studio, and we had fun picking paints and equipment for the next hour. Five months later I got a bike that still amazes me.

[MadRocketSci]

bags, just curious, when you say tom watched you ride, did you go outside and ride or pedal on a trainer inside?

the reason i'm asking is that i'd like to know if it's just as good to go out there in the winter vs. summer...thanks!

[csb]

unless you are going to be fitted by THE handful (5?) of
decent serotta fitters you're just getting some bike
geek to stick a tape measure against your privates.

tk knows SO much more than some bloke with a certificate
(... weekend with a pencil + 3-ring notebook) and has
proven it for years, as does richiesachs. very, VERY few
people race + build bikes on the highest level as these 2.

waste no $, call tk to make an appt. sleep well.

[bags27]

MadRS,

It was a rainy, cold December morning, and we put my bike on his trainer. He kept asking me to change positions, and he walked around, measuring and pondering. I don't know if Tom ever rides outside with anyone, which normally would be a good thing, I'm sure. Just that I don't know how he could have improved on the fit I got. It's so spot on and superior to the several previous fittings, including by the Serotta method, by someone who is really excellent.

[Michael Katz]

I answered Parlee because I have a Superlight as well as a Serotta and an all carbon frame would be something different for me. My Spectrum, however, distinguishes itself from all other bikes I have ever owned. Its handling reflects the elusive and magical qualities of quick responsiveness but superb stability and tracking. It is the only bike I have ever ridden that one moment I can be nimbly dodging potholes and the next carving curves on 45 mph descents like on a rail. It will dive into a curve without effort but respond to changing my line with nary a twitch. I don't know how Tom does it, but Spectrums give you the ability to constantly push the limits with confidence that you are totally in control.

[rnhood]

I would love to have a Spectrum but, I would opt for the 25th Anniversary steel bike over the Ti. An absolutely beautiful bicycle. The Ti would be my second Spectrum.

[Too Tall]

Sorry for jumping in late. CIII and raise the BB. Level TT and no HT extension. Buy two sets of wheels.

Seat Tube Length: 61.00
Seat Tube Angle: 73.00
Horizontal TT Length: 57.50
TT Downslope Angle: 3.00
Head Tube Angle: 73.50
Chainstay Length: 42.50
Rear Drop: 8.00

[hooverone]

(I believe the frame itself is built in the Merlin factory to Tom's specs he sends them).

I do weekday trianing rides, and weekend group riides no racing besides a century or two a year.

I though that Tom Kellog welded these frames, so Merlin actually does the welding?



Jim

[bostondrunk]

Yes, Merlin builds them (99% sure...). Might be a different section of the factory? Not sure. And based on your riding, I would absolutely go with the Spectrum, which is also what most here seem to be recommending as well.

[cpg]

Yes, Merlin builds them (99% sure...). Might be a different section of the factory? Not sure. And based on your riding, I would absolutely go with the Spectrum, which is also what most here seem to be recommending as well.

Merlin used to build the ti frames. After Merlin was purchased by Lightspeed, Spectrum ti started and continue to be welded by Lightspeed. Spectrum steel is built in house.

[bags27]

Urban legend continues. Actually, from what I understand from TK, Litespeed and Merlin welders share only the same roof. And among the Merlin welders, Tom has cherry picked the best to do his custom work.

Tom does all the measuring, designing, etc. and then faxes it to Tenn., where it is CADed, and sent back to him for final approval. He gets the rough frame, works it over and then paints it.

The interesting thing is that Merlin, since its move south, has a mixed reputation for quality control. Tom told me that the reverse is actually true: that the real problems were in Cambridge and that the company was close to bankruptcy there, and that the quality is substantially better now. He really bristles at the charge that, just because the welding is done in Tenn, it's somehow inferior. He's actually really high on the design and material opportunities that bigness gives him. He's got a new Merlin design coming out that he wouldn't even give me a hint about!

I dunno. Maybe a Moots has prettier welds than my Spectrum. But I'm way, way, way past caring. My bike is certainly beautiful and it's more beautiful still in my eyes (just like my kids). Tom spent a lot of time really thinking about components, rake, stiffness, stay length, etc. etc. He convinced me to buy a less expensive bike than I might have wanted, and when I thought I might want to order a second bike a little different (just for variety), he told me not to. He's such a straight-shooter and a kind and thoughtful person, and my bike is just dead-on perfect. There is no way I will ever be able to ride it beyond its limits. I'm delighted with it, and I hope everyone feels the same about theirs.

[bostondrunk]

I don't know why people care where the bike is welded...
I imagine the boys at Merlin are pobably a lot more skilled and building the ti frames than TK would be just based on pure hours with the torch. And for that matter, there are probably lots of dudes over in China that can do just as well too.
I briefly owned a Merlin (briefly because it didn't fit me well), and the quality of the build, welds, etc., was -really- impressive. And its not like ya got to worry about it breaking since its likely warrantied for longer than you'll ever keep it.

[coylifut]

Bags has it right. That's how TK explained it to me. When I was making my Spectrum decision, the fact that it was welded in Tenn didn't come into play at all. On a separate note, the steel bikes are desinged by TK and constructed by Spectrum's un-sung hero Jeff. Although I went with Ti, I spent some time touring the basement where Jeff resides. He showed me several frames in various stages of production. Before I even left the barn, I was plotting my next Spectrum. A lugged steel cyclocross bike's been on my mind ever since.

Urban myths do abound. When talking about materials with TK, I considered Ti or a Ti/carbon mix. TK said that he'd been riding a Ti/carbon mix and that he'd thought a lot about the various differences. He went on to say that his all Ti bike is more fun, more comfortable and lighter. However, while the Ti/carbon bike is not as comfortable as the all Ti on long rides and longer road races, it's clearly more competent while under serious handling pressure such as one encounters in a crit. I guess that confirms the notion that for pro racers, ride feel is a luxury and performance reins supreme.

I chose the Ti bike because I prefer longer hilly road races. I only did 1 crit last year. So, I figured I might as well ride a more comfortable-lighter bike. Someone on the forum suggested that a Ti Serotta makes a great "privateer" race bike. I agree. Ti's durable, provides and excellent ride "feel" and can be made light and stiff.

[Climb01742]

is there always a weight penalty with ti/carbon mixes? if so, is it because of the "lugs" necessary to hold the carbon, and the resultant overlap of carbon and ti? and isn't comfort meant to be an objective of carbon/ti combos? interesting that TK thinks all ti is more comfy.

[cpg]

[QUOTE=bags27]Urban legend continues. Actually, from what I understand from TK, Litespeed and Merlin welders share only the same roof. And among the Merlin welders, Tom has cherry picked the best to do his custom work.


It's my understanding that none of the Boston based Merlin employees moved to TN. If my recolection is correct then the Litespeed and Merlin welders share the same roof because they are the same people. Not that this is scandalous. An industry insider told me that Tom is more happy with the current status than the earlier situation. Tom is a stickler for details and bikes are better for it.

[dbrk]

Having had an opportunity to satisfy many bicycle curiousities (Colnagos are for other people, aluminum is not for me, Shimano or Campag is okay by me, no longer a religious issue, I'm not a fast guy anymore and don't care about those bikes much, etc) and pander to my excesses and lusts (you've seen the basement...), there's not all that much out there that I really-really-really-want-before-I-die. Many bikes have been about meeting the fine, interesting people behind them. There are a few things I'm still curious about (like Cervelo geometry, for example) but not much that spins my wheels and wakes me up schemin' to get one. But among those few a 25th Anniversary Spectrum stands right at the top of the list along with a Curt Goodrich-built Curt Goodrich ('cause I have two Rivendells he's made and, well, this is lugged steel of the most extraordinary quality). From Curt I would like either a single speeder or a "race bike", from TK I'd just like a 60x58.5 and he can pick the rest.
*Spectrum 25th
*Goodrich Racer
*Kirk Terraplane
*Vanilla 650B
*Eisentraut
*Della Santa
*Merckx Corsa 0.1 in Molteni

Now that I have the Luigino (should be here next week sometime, Brendan gets to hang on and take pictures if that is his fancy), I'm in line for another Sachs, and Mike Barry will make me a Paris-Roubaix derailleur'd Mariposa (which has to have special dropouts and details for the chainstay mounted circa 1954 derailleur...), and Mr Nagasawa has agreed to build me a ride, well, it's hard to want more or other. I guess I say that and come up wtih yet another but so little modern appeals that, well, that's that. I think I am still curious about bikes, like this Specialized Roubaix, maybe even the Trek Pilot, or the Cervelo Prodigy, but I'm not so lusty anymore. Spectrum gets me goin' though and TK is a graduate of my esteemed University (albeit before my arrival here).

Now tandems...tandems I could lust...

dbrk

[Michael Katz]

From what I understand based on my conversations with Tom, the Merlin and Litespeed production facilities are totally separate. Same parent company, same roof but separate areas and production employees. Spectrum Ti's are built by Merlin employees selected to work in Merlin's custom shop which is itself separate from the regular Merlin production line. Within the custom shop, Tom has hand picked a select few who build his frames to his specs. Tom inspects and finfishes the frames once they are received.

[bags27]

I've probably contributed to this particular thread as much (more?) than the next person. Yet I feel a little guilty praising TK so much on the Serotta site, esp. since Ben is such a good Democrat :) .

This is why it's a real shame that all the Kahuna-run sites were delinked from the Serotta site in last year's "troubles." A lot of this should go on the Spectrum site, but be easy enough for cross-over conversations. I still mourn the decoupling. :(

[Needs Help]

There are a few things I'm still curious about (like Cervelo geometry, for example) but not much that spins my wheels and wakes me up schemin' to get one. But among those few a 25th Anniversary Spectrum stands right at the top of the list

From most cyclists, that would be high praise indeed for a Spectrum. However, in your case, I can't help but think it doesn't rate the Spectrum very high since you have acquired so many other bikes first. Any comments on why a Spectrum wasn't at the top of your list sooner?

[Climb01742]

bags--i think most of us like and respect and feel endebted to ben even more because he lets us talk about all things bike here. because he supports our broad ranging lusts and loves, i feel more compelled to support him. i thank him. and if i lusted after two relatively equal bikes, and one was a serotta, i'd chose his out of loyalty and gratitude. (of course i personally think ben's open mindedness and generousity of spirit comes from being a democrat, but that's not a can o' worms we want to open, is it? sorry, alyson. :beer: )

[dbrk]

From most cyclists, that would be high praise indeed for a Spectrum. However, in your case, I can't help but think it doesn't rate the Spectrum very high since you have acquired so many other bikes first. Any comments on why a Spectrum wasn't at the top of your list sooner?

I can offer no legitimate excuses but I can explain some of my thinking. I have viewed TK as a pillar, stalwart of the real craft. When I returned from a very, very long stint in India at the beginning of the 1990s I had one of the first Spectrum Ti bikes, with the pressed in bb. I also bought it used and too small, having bought into some of the silly influences that continue to this day to size bikes too small (editor's note, he can't help himself with that stuff, so pay no attention...) I've not yet gotten around to replacing it with proper lugged steel. Some other things I have pursued are more obscure or come from shops where the future may be now: Nagasawa, Singer, and Cooper come to mind in that respect, all builders far away and not easy to obtain and for how long? May they all live long, prosper, and fill my basement with wonders. I'm hoping it will not be another 25 years before I have a Spectrum.

dbrk

[Dekonick]

I think everyone here would agree - if they could only have ONE bike, there is a high probability that they would pick a custom Serotta. I lust for anything beautiful on 2 wheels that has pedals, yet the only 2 bikes that I own and will not sell (Bianchi went bye bye yesterday - to a friend who is a newb rider)are my Serotta's. Every other bike I have ever owned is either gone, or always on the block. I don't have that many, usually 3 (my two faithful steeds and a mountain bike) up to 5 (depending on how understanding the wife is that day :rolleyes: ) but I am constantly getting / trading / selling / buying cycling stuff + bikes (nothing like what Douglas does...yet...perhaps one day Ill be able to collect and ride as many jewels)

hmmm - this would make an interesting poll wouldnt it?

[dbrk]

I think everyone here would agree - if they could only have ONE bike, there is a high probability that they would pick a custom Serotta. .... but I am constantly getting / trading / selling / buying cycling stuff + bikes..

I hope to stay as lucky as Krsna who needs not to settle but for one gopi and so not one bike. I would be downright distraught if "everything but one" had to go. The catechism and good manners of this Forum nearly require us to say that such a singular bike would be our Serotta. My problem, since I am a lucky fellow no doubt, is which Serotta? Would that be the jewel of the CSi or the rarer, more unusual and distinctive to the brand DKS Legend? But may such a day not dawn when the simple pleasure of cycling must be reduced in some minimalist, nay Calvinist abjuration in which denial and askesis is the order of the day. No! Here's for bicycle promiscuity and if someone's conscience declares that this is excess or worse then I plead guilty but fail to see the crime.

dbrk

[Ozz]

Is he still building these? I thought he was only going to build 25 of them, and they have been available (at least shown on his website) for a couple years now...what's up?

Also, what makes them different than the standard Spectrum Steel?

[Spectrum Bob]

Ozz,
I believe but I am not certain that Tom only puts out about 70 bikes a year.
Does anyone know for shore?

[bags27]

Spectrum B: I have in my head the figure of 200/yr (Ti and steel combined).

[jeffg]

how about this?
I would still check about 200 lbs on a 2.2lb frame (I would discuss this with any of the builders, for that matter), but this one is a worthy candidate.

Sorry the picture is not so good. Let's try the link:

http://www.hampsten.com/Bikes/Race/tourdesuisse.html

[Climb01742]

steve hampsten spoke highly of this sloping, non-custom frame. he's personally riding one, and if you called him, he could give you a first-hand report. (drive him crazy like i did by requesting special decals! :p )

[FlaRider]

Climb, what special decals did you request?

By the way, I requested "special" decals on my Parlee Z1 (white with red outlines, similar to the regular Hampsten decals but with the "Parlee" name) and the guys at Parlee were extremely accommodating.

[Climb01742]

fla rider--steve has these wild boar decals he puts on the headtube, and i asked him to put them other places, instead of the big hampsten logos. i've kinda gotten into customizing frames with different logo/decal placements than whatever the standard is. steve was very accomodating too.

[Redturbo]

Did you notice the DA10 cranks and Campy components on the Hampsten/Parlee z3. :no:

turbo

[Litespeeder]

The parlee anything is going to be a better climber than anything that serotta puts out. But as others have mentioned, these are quite different bikes from frame builders that have very different philosophies on frames and materials. The parlee Z1 is the only bike that I have ever put a leg over that has made me feel as if I had a new pair of legs. It's truly a performance bike that climbs and accelerates brilliantly, if that's what you are looking for. On the other hand, it is carbon. So the durability issues with carbon are there. The other bikes on your list are very different when compared to a parlee. They are going to be alot heavier, sturdier and more durable when compared to parlees. It seems to me that you need to step back and ask yourself what you are looking for in a bike. I would also suggest that you perhaps add the Moots Vamoots SL 6/4 ti frame. It has the performance characteristics of a parlee, it weighs in a 2.5 lbs, it's ti and it can be custom built. It doesn't get any better than a Moots.

:bike:

[Vanilla Gorilla]

The parlee anything is going to be a better climber than anything that serotta puts out. But as others have mentioned, these are quite different bikes from frame builders that have very different philosophies on frames and materials. The parlee Z1 is the only bike that I have ever put a leg over that has made me feel as if I had a new pair of legs. It's truly a performance bike that climbs and accelerates brilliantly, if that's what you are looking for. On the other hand, it is carbon. So the durability issues with carbon are there. The other bikes on your list are very different when compared to a parlee. They are going to be alot heavier, sturdier and more durable when compared to parlees. It seems to me that you need to step back and ask yourself what you are looking for in a bike. I would also suggest that you perhaps add the Moots Vamoots SL 6/4 ti frame. It has the performance characteristics of a parlee, it weighs in a 2.5 lbs, it's ti and it can be custom built. It doesn't get any better than a Moots.

:bike:

I wouldn't believe a word this person says!
:no: :no: :no: :no: :no:

[Sandy]

Now that is one really neat name. One of the all time best, I think.

Dandy Sandy

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Thanks Sandy. Yours is great too. :banana: