Sleep

[Marcus Torino]

Recently I've had problems staying to sleep. I go to bed at my normal time, which is 10pm (roughly, sometimes it's 9:30, sometimes it's 10:15) and have no trouble falling asleep when I do. But then I wake up at any time between 2am and 5am and can't get back to sleep, my mind is too active. Used to be I'd wake up at 6 - 6:30am. Any suggestions on how I can get back to that? I'm missing out, and it's starting to have an affect on my day.

[AgilisMerlin]

stress

[dave thompson]

Recently I've had problems staying to sleep. I go to bed at my normal time, which is 10pm (roughly, sometimes it's 9:30, sometimes it's 10:15) and have no trouble falling asleep when I do. But then I wake up at any time between 2am and 5am and can't get back to sleep, my mind is too active. Used to be I'd wake up at 6 - 6:30am. Any suggestions on how I can get back to that? I'm missing out, and it's starting to have an affect on my day.
Quit thinking about that new bike you want to order! :D

I know, it can be difficult to tame the 'active' mind when you want to get some sleep. When my wife gets like that I tell her "don't think of the word hippopotamus". Never works but it's funny though.

[stevep]

stress ditto.
it can be a symptom of overtraining ... is that possible?
cuts slow to heal?
stuff like that.
overtired.


i get this too intermittently, kinda suucks
when it happens i find it best to get up
go downstairs and read for 1/2 hr instead of lying there wishing i was still asleep. also comes w/ age i thk.

[DonH]

I had the same problem for a while. I find that im prone to 'thinking too much' at bedtime. I would fall asleep quickly (because im physically tired) but wake up at 3am worrying about something that happened the previous day.
Im now trying to slowly unwind prior to bedtime. This means NO booze, NO reading anything that stimulates my mind , and NO watching the news.
Sometimes I take a Tylenol PM which helps too.

The other thing I discovered was a loose heating duct in my bedroom that would rattle slightly and wake me up.....

[WadePatton]

Are you drinking coffee or other caffeinated beverages? Or on any kind of pharmaceutical stuff?

When I quit regular caffeine use--my sleep got much better. I'm sleeping fine now, and have a cup of joe when I feel like it. Never more than one.

[Bud_E]

I'm a horrible sleeper in general and my pattern is similar to what you described -- I fall asleep okay but then I'm up at 2 or 3 am and can't get back to sleep for a few hours. At that point I just give up and go read or watch TV ( probably the opposite of what I should do ).

Anyhow, a guy I work with had the problem also and he swears by this autogenic relaxation technique (http://www.braingle.com/mind/546.html) . He says it takes some practice but after a while your body picks up on the cues and it works. It's worth a try. Good luck -- sleep problems suck.

[mikki]

Are you drinking coffee or other caffeinated beverages? Or on any kind of pharmaceutical stuff?

When I quit regular caffeine use--my sleep got much better. I'm sleeping fine now, and have a cup of joe when I feel like it. Never more than one.

I was sick recently and as a result gave up caffeine cold-turkey. I sleep MUCH better now. Also, there is a natural product to relax muscles called "Myocalm PM" by a high quality company called Metegenics that one can purchase at chiropractic offices. It is natural herbs that when taken about an hour before bedtime is AWESOME in helping one stay asleep throughout the night. Sometimes I get so wound up or overly tired that I take 2 and wake up feeling wonderful.

[Fixed]

I get about 6 hours a night i like to stay up late and get up early
take a nap
cheers

[AgilisMerlin]

relax

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x309/AGILISMERLIN/sleep2.jpg

[crossjunkee]

Not the metal kind.

Give REM caps a try, non-addictive.

[gt6267a]

you are an animal. there is a short check list of animal needs. are all the boxes checked? if not, check all boxes before going to sleep. do this for a week straight. you will be fine.

[72gmc]

Just had this problem last night. I attribute it to stress and the 3am exercise wheel routine that my 8-year-old's gerbils perform down the hall.

White noise helps me, in the form of a fan in the hall. Also reading, and a concerted effort to not work right before bed. If I have to work late I follow it with a book or a round of Wii golf.

[dekindy]

Undiagnosed acid reflux is sometimes the culprit. This can happen even without symptoms. Try some Maalox and see if that helps.

[capybaras]

depression can do that

[wasfast]

If your signature line is in the present tense, the stress and emotional load of that alone will mess you up BIG TIME. Even if you're not completely aware of it, emotional issues seem to simmer under the conscious mind in my experience.

[Elefantino]

I'm one of those who can also wake up, wide awake, at 2:30-3 a.m. I found that there are some good suggestions here. (http://www.mercola.com/article/sleep.htm)

Also, when it happens for more than a couple of nights, I pop an Ambien SR. Gets me back on track.

[eddief]

have you ever been tested for sleep apnea. sleep apnia sufferers are notorius for waking up more often than normal sleepers.

[M.Sommers]

As was offered, your signature refers to divorce with a red smiley dude banging his head against the wall. Many a man has been ruined by a woman (and certainly vice versa). The ex wife is Shimano, you are Campy. Too much churning in the mind, not enough churning of the crankset will burn midnight oil.

Do whatever Fixed and AgilisMerlin say to do. :fight:

[chuckroast]

I sometimes wake up in the middle of the night thinking about the day that ended or the day that's about to begin. I hit the snooze button on the clock radio, tuned on George Noory's overnight show and listen to the latest odd UFO or conspiracy theory. I find that it's distracting enough that I quit thinking about whatever was keeping me up and I go back to sleep. After an hour, the radio shuts back off.

[Marcus Torino]

Thanks for all the comments, advice, and amusing green girls.

Yeah, the head banging is recent, for the first month or so I was angry, but actually got more sleep than the last couple of months I was married, friends of mine attributed that to the release of stress, and were telling me I actually looked happy for the first time in a while. Then around the holidays the time spent sleeping started to diminish, I remember one night in the last month when I actually got 8 hours sleep, which was my prior normal pattern. I found on my own booze didn't help, melatonin does slightly (but I stopped taking it for fear it would halt natural production), and Tylenol PM had no affect on me, it just made me groggy. Change in work is happening (completed next week) and that may be part of it too, I was thinking I'll go see a Doc if things don't improve after that. I'm riding, about every second day, and I walk an hour in the evening on days I don't ride.

I try not to work late, watch mindless TV or read before bed, and otherwise relax. Falling asleep is no problem, it's the staying asleep and falling back to sleep that's the issue.

I've found some interesting things to try, so thanks guys, and keep them coming. :beer:

[fierte_poser]

grief/loss from the divorce? even if you are better off without her, its still a huge loss. take good care of yourself. maybe try something outside of your normal box -- get a massage, take a yoga class or a pilates class. find a good counselor/therapist. take good care of yourself. oh yeah, did i mention i'm currently staying at a holiday inn express? ;)

[capybaras]

swimming helps with sleep and depression :)

[Dekonick]

Perhaps this could be just the ticket - get a nice HID and try riding at night!

:beer:

If you are going to be awake, may as well enjoy it.

[GoJavs]

Watch your sugar intake at night. I have a hard time sleeping but I know exactly why. I get hungry at around 10-10:30PM every night and I raid all the kids' sugary goodies off the pantry.

Guilt (and a 2AM bedtime) quickly follows. :rolleyes:

[andy mac]

i know stress and depression have caused me similar problems in the past - my last job was truly, truly horrendous.

i have since started my own company and even though i'm making less $$ at the moment, i'm sleeping 1000% better.

maybe some breathing and/or mediation techniques may be useful.

praying if you are religious, or some form of being thankful for all that's good in your life, apparently works really well too. really!

good luck.

andy

[swoop]

off the record... cuz this is my line o work and i'm constrained to respond in a narrow and appropriate way...

talk therapy to give voice to the racing thoughts to connect to meaning.
talk therapy to mourn and celebrate.
talk therapy to learn what is to be learned from the relationship.
structure.
good sleep hygiene.
a little not so innocent acting out.
some self help books like, getting the love you want by harvelle hendricks
time
a journal to take some notes
a personal way to thank her for the things that worked and to throw away the things that didn't
a new bike (retail therapy)
a tiny meditation practice to learn how to let the brain process but not hear it.
a small piece of art on the wall that means something.
a book about greiving called, who dies, by steven and ondrea levine
proseco
new blue jeans
high thread count sheets.
top chef, american idol, project runway




hope that helps.

[GoJavs]

Top Chef works! I watched 2 hours of it tonight!
Wait....I'm still awake. I better go to bed.... :crap:

[pdxmech13]

I generally don't sleep well if I am over stressed (even little things) or not getting daily exercise. Sometimes too full of a belly dosn't help either.

[capybaras]

Swimming is like massage, meditation, deep breathing, exercising, getting hugged, and getting real clean all in one. Find a pool that has a reasonable temperature (maybe 70) so you can swim nice, easy, mindless laps. The bigger the better because it adds to the weightless, being in space feeling. Do not let any thoughts creep into your head while you are swimming. Try to get the song "Our Swimmer" by Wire stuck in your head. Don't count laps. Just be free and mindless and light. It should be like an easy bike ride in the country.

It will help your depression and your sleep trouble.

[Samster]

Recently I've had problems staying to sleep. I go to bed at my normal time, which is 10pm (roughly, sometimes it's 9:30, sometimes it's 10:15) and have no trouble falling asleep when I do. But then I wake up at any time between 2am and 5am and can't get back to sleep, my mind is too active. Used to be I'd wake up at 6 - 6:30am. Any suggestions on how I can get back to that? I'm missing out, and it's starting to have an affect on my day.

how old are you? i found that my sleep quality dropped post 40. also, alcohol doesn't help.

finally, sleep anxiety only makes matters worse.

cut out caffeine, alcohol and naps and see if there is improvement.

oh yeah, and sex helps. imo.

[capybaras]

how old are you? i found that my sleep quality dropped post 40. also, alcohol doesn't help.

finally, sleep anxiety only makes matters worse.

cut out caffeine, alcohol and naps and see if there is improvement.

oh yeah, and sex helps. imo.

Your advice, although good for the general case, might not be that great for someone who is recently divorced with :crap: in his signature. Just sayin'

[false_Aest]

In a similar situation I found that the only thing that helped me sleep (after obtaining a xanax prescription, taking melatonin, other sleeping meds and seeing a therapist) was pot.

Two cool things about this were 1) ingestion worked better than smoking 2) it kept me from grinding my teeth.

Obviously there are issues one of which is legality.

I guess I should also note that I'm not for "recreational" drug use but I do see the merits of using pot "medicinally." (Yeah, its a thin line).

Hope this suggestion doesn't offend anyone.

[capybaras]

none taken :)

[swoop]

In a similar situation I found that the only thing that helped me sleep (after obtaining a xanax prescription, taking melatonin, other sleeping meds and seeing a therapist) was pot.

Two cool things about this were 1) ingestion worked better than smoking 2) it kept me from grinding my teeth.

Obviously there are issues one of which is legality.

I guess I should also note that I'm not for "recreational" drug use but I do see the merits of using pot "medicinally." (Yeah, its a thin line).

Hope this suggestion doesn't offend anyone.


save money.. just buy a hammer and knock yourself out every night.

[AgilisMerlin]

save money.. just buy a hammer and knock yourself out every night.


bpotd..........
use a rubber mallet, though

[M.Sommers]

The Bene Gesserit Littainy against Fear.
Pg 19 of Dune

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.


PS. My advice is medication is to resolution, what a glaze is to a scratch on the paint of a car.

[Marcus Torino]

Your advice, although good for the general case, might not be that great for someone who is recently divorced with :crap: in his signature. Just sayin'

Actually, it's her head I'd like to bang against the wall, not my own so much.

If someone starts going to the gym every night, and doesn't seem to be gaining anything from it (tone, definition, weight changes), one might wonder what they were doing really, just saying.

My sig is more how I feel about the whole state of affairs, rather than anything specific.

Anyways, I've being taking on some of the very helpful advice, although Starbucks might mourn some, as will my coffee bean supplier. Today though, everyone tells me I look tired, even the lady behind the counter in the post office... I shall now go back to eating my salad.

Thanks guys! :beer:

[capybaras]

Exactly. Don't be afraid of getting wet.

[M.Sommers]

Exactly. Don't be afraid of getting wet.

Your signature is Bene Gesseritesque.

[nobrakes]

I always admired Miguel Indurain
as a cyclist. It had been said
that sleeping was his favorite
hobby. An admirable ability and
enviable use of time.

[M.Sommers]

I always admired Miguel Indurain
as a cyclist. It had been said
that sleeping was his favorite
hobby. An admirable ability and
enviable use of time.

"Keep a quiet heart, sit like a tortoise, walk sprightly like a pigeon and sleep like a dog."

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:wkuLW96uUncJ:mehulh.blogspot.com/2008/03/tortoise-pigeon-dog-advice-from-256.html+sleep+like+a+dog+walk+like+a+pigeon&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

[swoop]

read the books i suggested.

[capybaras]

read the books i suggested.
is that a suggestion?

[swoop]

its an order! if those things don't put the guy to sleep nothing will.

[Tom]

I fish a stretch of stream very carefully and if that doesn't work I imagine that I can fly. Don't laugh. The flying one works in seconds. I use the fishing one first only so I don't wear out the flying one.

[M.Sommers]

Overtrain for one day. You will sleep like you're dead. Or do the American-thing and get some Ambien. My ex worked for Smith-Klein and sold drugs for a living to Drs., she swore by Ambien.

There is a product from a Health Food Store, 'Knockout'; it contains melatonin, theanine and valerian. Initially after 9/11/01, I wasn't sleep too well (I was sleeping in lower NYC) and this product knocked me out. They're $25.99 for 50 pills, last 25 days and work.

:beer:

[Marcus Torino]

I've been keeping a log and noticing what's going on around me more.

Firstly, around 4-5am there is a freight train that goes through, due to the many ungated stops in the area it's constantly wailing away, I've noticed that the last two mornings when I woke up. Also at 5am someone leaves for work in the 'hood, and he/she isn't quiet about it. I'm going to buy some earplugs today.

Also, if I change from a 9:30-10pm bed time, to 11pm, I go from 4-5 hours, to 5-6 hours sleep, and I wake up feeling more rested. Wierd. I'm going to try for more wind down time in the evenings. Maybe I'm not getting enough (wind down time)?

I cut out the booze (I was a habitual glass of red guy) and ate a low fat, no added sugar yoghurt instead. Feels better.

Coffee I'm down from a 12 cup pot in the morning to 8 cups. I figure I'll get it down to 4-6 cups eventually (little at a time!).

I started reading more again, a lifetime passion that was lost.

Oddly enough, I also noticed my not sleeping timed with the end of new TV episodes due to the writers strike, I used to watch an hour or so, but don't with the repeats. Back to the lack of down time I think?

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if it's the loss of what seemed to be stability loss that rocked my world. Suddenly I didn't have to worry about 6pm for dinner, getting the kids (hers from prior marriage) up for school and off to bed at night, thinking I'd get in trouble for a box turning up with something cycling in it, or even just spending too much time with the dog. The structure went, and with it the headaches, but also the feeling of being. Now it's just me, my bikes, and the turtle who showed up at the front door that likes being in the back yard (at least he doesn't leave, he just eats the weeds and plant leaves before heading for a hole to sleep in). I don't miss climbing into bed wondering where my wife is.

Oh, and to the guy who emailed me suggesting I went out and got some, thanks, and you owe me a keyboard.

Cheers guys! :beer: