Possible radio ban at the Tour

[saab2000]

www.cyclingnews.com is reporting that the director of that race is considering banning radio communication to the riders for the Tour. This would be about the coolest thing to happen in a long, long time IMHO.

Discuss.

[BUTCH RIDES]

hello phil will be happy
bye

[AgilisMerlin]

great idea..........

all the teams will stickem' in the helmets and hide em..............


let the cheating begin............. :banana:

[Big Daddy]

mixed feelings on this.

[Tom]

If I were a rider I'd be bummed, but as a fan I think it is great if they do it.

[Ti Designs]

That would make it kinda like bike racing...

[jhcakilmer]

I saw this, and I'm becoming more and more disinterested with the Tour each and every day.

What's the big deal with race radios? Does it really effect the races that much?

[saab2000]

What's the big deal with race radios? Does it really effect the races that much?

Yes. It makes them more boring. Takes any strategy decisions away from the riders. Sometimes bike racers need to race their bikes and not only have the DS in the car behind make all the decisions.

Sometimes the best races are the ones where real racing takes place - like Paris-Roubaix and the Tour of Flanders, etc.

[Too Tall]

Does that mean my club can't use them in the cat 4 races too? So sad. :rolleyes:

[M.Sommers]

Tom Brady gets a radio in his head telling him, "Z-flat, 82 break, Y-strike...and sleep with hot super models on three" so why shouldn't pro cyclists? I have mixed feelings on this...Le Tour should focus MUCH more on getting it's overall act together as in Astana, Levi, Contador...a starting lineup of teams which are certainly qualified atmo.

Dave Stoller, Richard Sachs and Eddy speak to me in my helmet, I can't find an actual radio per se, but the voices are there.

[coopdog]

It won't matter. Well positioned people/fans/team cars etc could essentially relay 90% of the same information to the riders.

[jhcakilmer]

I guess I'll hold my opinion, until I see a race where they don't use radios. I don't really think anything will change.

Seems as though, especially in the mountains, that radios make less of a difference. The strongest rider usually wins when the road goes up. Seems as though race radios make a much larger impact in a long breakaway, especially on a flat stage so teams can organize a chase. The team chase is considerably more neutralized in the mountains.

[barry1021]

especially when there is a large group that breaks from the peleton

b21

[David Kirk]

perfect

dave

[72gmc]

Since I became a fan back in the 80s, I say do away with radios. Let each team cultivate a tactically astute leader on the bike, or suffer the consequences.

As a fan of Joe Montana back in the 80s, I say take away Tom Brady's radio too. Read the defense at field level.

grouch grouch grouch

[Fat Robert]

as a lame cat 3 who just barely averages 37km/h on his training rides

(just taking the piss out of bostondrunk on that one)

i love it love it love it love it

make the riders use their own dang brains

and take the radios out of football helmets

johnny unitas didn't need no freakin radio

[Boundgear]

It would change the TT's, and that might be bad during a rainy TT. And the first week/flats slightly. Mountains, it could cause some great shuffling due to errors in tactics.

I'm for it.

[Big Daddy]

.

What's the big deal with race radios? Does it really effect the races that much?

Seriously?

It can make all the difference. How do you think the peloton can lazy around until the sprinters teams are told to organize? Boonen radios his DS and back and forth then the command is given to organize at the front.

Back in the day, you actually had to do your home work and write down the # of the guys closest to you on GC instead of relying on the car to tell you in real time. Or you dropped back and talked. but if you drop back now, it is radioed that "so and so " is dropping back, attack...

I like the safety aspect of radios, but it can really nullify the strategy, because DS are talking back and forth and making deals, then it is radioed to the teams...this has always been done, but it is a lot more efficient to do it now.

[manet]

will they have to go solo when repairing their own carbon forks
or can it be a two part epoxy job

[Elefantino]

Wow. Chalk boards on motorcycles could make a comeback.

I think it's a great idea.

[PoppaWheelie]

+1. I'd love to see it....

[jhcakilmer]

Seriously?

It can make all the difference. How do you think the peloton can lazy around until the sprinters teams are told to organize? Boonen radios his DS and back and forth then the command is given to organize at the front.

Back in the day, you actually had to do your home work and write down the # of the guys closest to you on GC instead of relying on the car to tell you inreal time. Or you dropped back and talked. but if you drop back now, it is radioed that "so and so " is dropping back, attack...

I like the safety aspect of radios, but it can really nullify the strategy, because DS are talking back and forth and making deals, then it is radioed to the teams...this has always been done, but it is a lot more efficient to do it now.

So what they will not get time checks, from that guy on the motorcycle? Or what the teams just can't organize individuals along the course, and use cell phones to call the DS? Or the teams just can't send someone back to the team cars to get a race plan? Seems naive to think that breakaways will all of a sudden be winning races, just because the riders can't communicate via radios.

Also, do you really think this will stop teams from talking? DS will just use cell phones, instead of race radios. Plus, they'll find a way to communicate with riders. Simple method....pager....and just use certain numbers to communicate what the DS wants the team to do.

Plus, what about making that race safer. Warning teammates about dangerous sections of the course?? Or crashes??

I guess I'll just keep my eyes open, and see what happens.

[dbrk]

Not all riders would think this is a bad idea. Michael Barry has written about how he would like to see the end of radios, something of a change of heart that he came to over the years.

I might actually be interested again if the whole thing didn't look like a manipulated corporate machine.

dbrk

[Grant McLean]

I'd love to see it, but i don't think it will happen, they will cite "safety" reasons.

Also, it would likely cause absolute chaos at the Tour. If they're serious
about changing racing in such a fundamental way, start with smaller 1 day races.
Are there any of the current crop of riders who have raced without radios as a pro?

-g

[Too Tall]

Why does this remind me the sport is governed by a bunch of fat old men two steps from cardiac arrest? They pine for the days when men were REAL men blah blah blah. It's as if by showing their dedication to "real" sport we'd forget they are a bunch of inbreed.....ooops solly. xxoo, TT.

[Big Daddy]

Not all riders would think this is a bad idea. Michael Barry has written about how he would like to see the end of radios, something of a change of heart that he came to over the years.

I might actually be interested again if the whole thing didn't look like a manipulated corporate machine.

dbrk

Swoop, Flux, Pucci-- Your thoughts? I am split. When you have a DS or a manager who is calm and in control, it's nice to have a "co-pilot", but when you have an idiot with a mouth screaming at you constantly...it can be the worse thing ever, and you will see the ear bud dangling.

[jerk]

stupid idea. riders should be allowed to know the time gaps through a more reliable method than rumour, gut and motorcycle carried chalk board. the team cars already disrupt the races too much.....having ds's driving through around the peloton even more than occurs now is mp.


jerk

[Ti Designs]

stupid idea. riders should be allowed to know the time gaps through a more reliable method than rumour, gut and motorcycle carried chalk board. the team cars already disrupt the races too much.....having ds's driving through around the peloton even more than occurs now is mp.


About 10 years ago there was this local training ride we called the shark ride. There were maybe a half dozen guys with the horsepower to put the hurt on, the rest were basicly fish in the school. Ya learned quickly who you needed to pay attention to, if sharks started making their way to the front it was time to shut up and find a wheel. It's called paying attention I guess it's not very "pro".

I remember when radios were the newest thing in racing. I was at the Stow road race, at the start of the second loop big George was told to attack at the bottom of smuggler's notch. I was right next to him when he got the order, all I heard was "what? now? Shiit!" and off he went. Thinking or paying attention is no longer part of racing, I feel it should be. communication is part of training, or at least it was back when I was racing. Now it seems more like a chess game played back in the team cars. The team leader is the king, some riders can go up hills, some can hammer on the flats...

[Grant McLean]

the team cars already disrupt the races too much.....having ds's driving through around the peloton even more than occurs now is mp.


jerk

that's the problem.
I assume the whole point of "no radios" would be that the riders are more on their own,
and the team cars wouldn't be allowed total access to the riders at all times...

Not sayin' it's a good idea, but if they want to ban the radios, they pretty
much need to explain what the point of doing it is.

I'd love to see what it does, but messin' around isn't likely going to be a popular idea.

-g

[Big Daddy]

stupid idea. riders should be allowed to know the time gaps through a more reliable method than rumour, gut and motorcycle carried chalk board. the team cars already disrupt the races too much.....having ds's driving through around the peloton even more than occurs now is mp.


jerk

They are only granted access to move through the peloton IF their rider is in a break more than 60secs up the road. If not, they have to stay in their preassigned spot in the caravan and the riders have to drift back to them.

[bostondrunk]

averages 37km/h on his training rides



*cough*...bull****...*cough*

[Fat Robert]

*cough*...bull****...*cough*


no bull bostonbud

the rides are only 38k long...once a week I can pull off one ride where I can door-to-door 23. there are only four stoplights, I start riding tempo after 5 min, do a TT, then do a 5min easy back to the house. roads are all flat, and if I make the lights, I can end up with a high average.

the usual average for one of my rides is 21.5-21.75...but I don't do anything over an hour and half, and I'd say anybody with a decent power-to-weight ratio should be able to pull a tempo or theshold "hour of power" at 21.5-22.5. no way in freaking hell could i sustain that kind of wattage for a three hour ride.

its not bull****.

its that numbers don't mean anything outside of their context, and that i'm also not much of a rider.

you want to see pics of my computer, or what?

:beer:

[bostondrunk]

no bull bostonbud

the rides are only 38k long...once a week I can pull off one ride where I can door-to-door 23. there are only four stoplights, I start riding tempo after 5 min, do a TT, then do a 5min easy back to the house. roads are all flat, and if I make the lights, I can end up with a high average.

the usual average for one of my rides is 21.5-21.75...but I don't do anything over an hour and half, and I'd say anybody with a decent power-to-weight ratio should be able to pull a tempo or theshold "hour of power" at 21.5-22.5. no way in freaking hell could i sustain that kind of wattage for a three hour ride.

its not bull****.

its that numbers don't mean anything outside of their context, and that i'm also not much of a rider.

you want to see pics of my computer, or what?

:beer:

Sorry, I didn't realize your training ride was a time trial.
That's not exactly an indication of your typical riding average speed...
But if you have a cool computer, like one of those original Avocet ones, then yeah, post a pic! :)

[Fat Robert]

Sorry, I didn't realize your training ride was a time trial.
That's not exactly an indication of your typical riding average speed...
But if you have a cool computer, like one of those original Avocet ones, then yeah, post a pic! :)

dude

i have decided that i must have more to my life than riding my stupid (but exquisitely crafted) bikes.

so i rock out the door, kill it for an hour or so, then that's it, done.

so, its either a TT or a rest day when i feast upon ocelots, and sloths, and orangutangs, and breakfast cereals, and....

i have one of these babies on the pacenti

http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?page=8&description=MC+1%2E0+Plus+Altimeter+Cyclocomputer&vendorCode=VDO&major=3&minor=2

pretty moronic, but i dig it

[bostondrunk]

dude

i have decided that i must have more to my life than riding my stupid (but exquisitely crafted) bikes.


Stop it with that crazy talk!!!

I like the computer. I had a VDO wireless a few years back, worked great.

[BdaGhisallo]

I would quite like to see a return to the days of radio-less racing at the pro level. It would certainly give a new dimension to the racers we admire today. We know who are the physically strong ones, but which of the crop of current stars are the mentally strong ones?

I think back to the mid 80s when I started following the sport and loving the art of tactics as it was practised by Stephen Roche. He was a master tactician and was known to slip into a break and get two minutes up the road before his rivals had the slightest idea that he wasn't still in the bunch. If you ever get a chance to read his book (I think it was called The Agony and The Ectasy) don't pass it up. His writing about the tactical planning and execution that went into this Giro and Tour wins is as good as it gets in cycling literature. He was a man who knew how to race.

Bring on the radio less races. Sure there will be some hiccups as riders and DS's adjust, but it will spice up the race. I don't remember anyone saying back in the 80s, "well, gosh, if only we had a way to communicate directly with the riders the racing would be so much safer and, more importantly, better!"

[Big Daddy]

Bring on the radio less races. Sure there will be some hiccups as riders and DS's adjust, but it will spice up the race. I don't remember anyone saying back in the 80s, "well, gosh, if only we had a way to communicate directly with the riders the racing would be so much safer and, more importantly, better!"

The "Badger" wanted radios... \m/

[giordana93]

Thinking or paying attention is no longer part of racing, I feel it should be. communication is part of training, or at least it was back when I was racing. Now it seems more like a chess game played back in the team cars. The team leader is the king, some riders can go up hills, some can hammer on the flats...
I totally agree; le jerk has a good point about knowing gaps and stuff, and the safety as crazy team cars run around groups, but anybody who has raced knows that not only do you have to pay attention, but the mental game is huge throughout a race, and when you are red-lined, or at the end of a long day, nothing is clear in your head and having a guy tell you when to go, when to do this, watching everyone on the road for you, it's just that much...no, I will not say easier, it's just one more factor they don't have to worry about..like quarterback getting plays from offensive coordinators and a staff of underlings (reading the other guy's boards!); does it take the greatness away from a good QB? no, but how much more impressive if he can pick apart a defense on his own instinct. ibid for the bike racer.... I like the idea

hmmm, maybe I'll start a flame war here: there is no way lance would have won seven tours without radio !

[jerk]

They are only granted access to move through the peloton IF their rider is in a break more than 60secs up the road. If not, they have to stay in their preassigned spot in the caravan and the riders have to drift back to them.


no shi'ite. i know. i have raced once or twice, driven a team car once or twice and even been in a break up the road once or twice.

here's the thing; in most cases, teams do not have the resources to service both their fodder in the break-away and their guys/leaders in the bunch. when ish gets strung out it gets very difficult. the radios make it safer for everyone to know what is going on.

jerk

[jerk]

[QUOTE=Ti Designs]About 10 years ago there was this local training ride we called the shark ride. There were maybe a half dozen guys with the horsepower to put the hurt on, the rest were basicly fish in the school. Ya learned quickly who you needed to pay attention to, if sharks started making their way to the front it was time to shut up and find a wheel. It's called paying attention I guess it's not very "pro".

QUOTE]

a race radio would not affect this situation at all. no radio from a car back in the caravan is going to know about how the dynamics of a bunch are operating. pro-cyclists know the deal and the good bike racers for the most part are good becuase they're good bike racers. it doesn't take a brain surgeon to read a race. if you think, you lose.

as for your weird story about george hincapie; i don't see the relevence. bike racers still win races. a race radio just lets them know whats going on up the road, what the time gaps are, and how the gc math works in the case of stage races. it doesn't remove "tactics" frm the equation.

jerk

[Grant McLean]

here's the thing; in most cases, teams do not have the resources to service both their fodder in the break-away and their guys/leaders in the bunch. when ish gets strung out it gets very difficult. the radios make it safer for everyone to know what is going on.

jerk

what's the Jerk's take on the live TV in the team car?

Seems like maybe that's the issue more than the radio.

-g

[jerk]

what's the Jerk's take on the live TV in the team car?

Seems like maybe that's the issue more than the radio.

-g


awesome.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hFF7jzVfSB0

jerk

[jim d]

Nice.......... That was just on my ipod this a.m..

Jim

[Grant McLean]

awesome.






dude. i gotta get you an iPhone handlebar bracket
so you can youtube while in the drops.


-g

[jerk]

Sorry, I didn't realize your training ride was a time trial.
That's not exactly an indication of your typical riding average speed...
But if you have a cool computer, like one of those original Avocet ones, then yeah, post a pic! :)


what exactly are you training for riding for an hour at 22mph?

i know, i know....riding for an hour at 22mph.

jerk

[jonathanirwin]

I love the idea of no radios, but I honestly think it would make the race more of a cluster-fcuk. Probably more so in European racing, but it seems like these guys hired to be engines, not master tacticians.

I guess it just depends on what part of the racing you enjoy...the heart or the brainmo.

[Fat Robert]

what exactly are you training for riding for an hour at 22mph?

i know, i know....riding for an hour at 22mph.

jerk

jerkpal, i shouldn't know this, but...

first 12 minutes -- 20 mph avg (4 miles, 6 stoplights)

33-ish minutes -- 25 mph avg (out in the sticks, no stop signs or lights)

final 15 minutes -- going as hard as I can back through the stoplights and then 5 minutes of coasting back to my house

its a 22 mile ride, I get it in at an hour or a little less

a 22 mph avg ride means I was hitting 25+ on the work part. in my lame cat 3 world, 25 miles an hour for 30 minutes is decent training