Custom...

[bostondrunk]

How many people here truly feel that they benefitted from custom geometry. Measurably benefited...
It seems to me that most bikes are designed with certain geometries that are meant to work well, handle well. Once someone goes custom, all that time proven stuff goes out the window, leaving a bike frame that is hit or miss, and no resale value (OK, lower...).
As well, as far as I can tell from posts here, every fitter gives you a different answer as to what your needs are!!
So unless you have a horrible back and need a huge headtube, why would you not just stick with the traditional geometries and make adjustments with the bars, stem, saddle, etc.?!
:eek:

[DWF]

How many people here truly feel that they benefitted from custom geometry. Measurably benefited...
It seems to me that most bikes are designed with certain geometries that are meant to work well, handle well. Once someone goes custom, all that time proven stuff goes out the window, leaving a bike frame that is hit or miss, and no resale value (OK, lower...).
As well, as far as I can tell from posts here, every fitter gives you a different answer as to what your needs are!!
So unless you have a horrible back and need a huge headtube, why would you not just stick with the traditional geometries and make adjustments with the bars, stem, saddle, etc.?!
:eek:

"When a lion kills the weakest gazelle in the herd, it makes the herd stronger and faster as a unit...alcohol kills the weakest brain cells, thereby making the brain a faster and more efficient machine...that's why you feel smarter after a few beers." - Cliff Claven

[my2cents]

"When a lion kills the weakest gazelle in the herd, it makes the herd stronger and faster as a unit...alcohol kills the weakest brain cells, thereby making the brain a faster and more efficient machine...that's why you feel smarter after a few beers." - Cliff Claven

PERFECT!

[hypnos]

My custom geometry works well for me. With a 59cm ST and 56.5cm TT, my frame is significantly different than anything off the rack. Perhaps a smaller stock frame would work, but I would need a big stack of spacers to get the bars up. I could have bought a large frame with a silly short stem. No..... I'll stay with my custom.

[bostondrunk]

"When a lion kills the weakest gazelle in the herd, it makes the herd stronger and faster as a unit...alcohol kills the weakest brain cells, thereby making the brain a faster and more efficient machine...that's why you feel smarter after a few beers." - Cliff Claven

<burp> exactly my point!!

"Ben and Jerry's send the waste from making ice cream to local pig farmers to use as feed. Pigs love the stuff, except for one flavor: Mint Oreo." CC :beer:

"The Sanskrit word for "war" means "desire for more cows.""

[Jeff N.]

When you're 6'4", or more, custom is your only real choice. Not many frame manufacturers make off-the-rack-available frames large enough for me, except maybe Cannondale and SEVEN.. Guess one COULD get the largest frame offered by a certain company, then get a long, ugly seatpost, and ugly high-rise stem, and get a ballpark fit. I chose not to go that route. All my frames have been custon, save a 'Dale, Litespeed and Airborne (all 63cm)and I have been quite satisfied. I trusted Bill Holland for my measurements and he seems to have hit 'em right on. But just the same, I have always been kinda envious of shorter riders because they have so many off-the-peg size options and custom sizing is, more likely than not, just not necessary for many of those folks. Jeff N.

[OldDog]

BD,

Custom has worked out well for me. I have shorter legs and a longer upper body. My current custom runs 52.5 st and 54.5 tt. I run a 10 cm stem. With this I get what I feel is a low center of gravity (note I said feel, as the bike is low with an 8 drop), all feels good.

With my std geo bikes, Merlin and Merckx, I ride a 54 and 53 respectively, adjusting stem length as needed as both have different tt's. They work, howver I get that feel I'm way up high on the bike, on the Merlin I am as the drop is less. Both give me less standover than the custom.

As far as resale goes, for me, I keep bikes, so long as I really like them. The Merlin is going, but I have been saying that for a while. It's actualy a 95 Spectrum Road, std geo. It's a great bike but I have been leaning towards more comfy rides. We'll see.

[va rider]

Sponge Bob - you and I must be from the same stock. My custom Serotta is a 59cm st with a 55.5 cm top tube. (Actually a 57cm with a 4 degree sloping tt). I have a bad lower back as well and can only tolerate about 4-5 cm of drop from my saddle to my bars.

But, BD makes a good point. Even with my unsightly long legs, short torso and bad back, there are a number of 58/57 frames that will work. But, after struggling with years of ill-fitting frames, I wanted to get a frame that I knew I could ride without bothering my lower back. I cannot tell you how many rides I have missed because of my back.

The result. My custom CIII fits me perfectly. Last weekend I rode a 106 mile hilly century and was able to jump off my bike with no back pain. Unbelievable, before I would be laid up for at least a week. This season, I will have my highest mileage total in a number of years, between 3k and 4k.

Custom is not needed for everybody, but it was well worth it to me.

p.s. excellent work, DWF! ROTFLMAO

[dirtdigger88]

I agree with Hypnos, I don't have geometry that is unusual at all. I ride a 60x58. The problem is I could not find an off the peg ti bike that I LIKED with that geomerty. I believe the Merlins and Lemonds have longer TT compared to mine. Most ti companies offer "custom" as part of the frame price, so why not take advantage of that and get a frame that works for you and that you don't end up with odd sized stems or tons of spacers. It is like buying a suit, sure most can fit in an off the rack suit, but will anyone here arugre that a tailored suit doesn't fit just a bit better.

Jason

[coylifut]

How can you know. I've owned a couple of bikes that fit well, but didn't ride that great. I now ride a ti Spectrum and all of the years of trial and error on my own and fittings from "qualified" fitters, was no match for a few hours in Tom's barn. Considering the additional enjoyment (and performance) I've received as a result of a proper fitting, the incremental $ paid for the frame is inconsequential. Tom offers a "service fitting" which would have allowed me to purchase a bike and then be fitted on it, or get fitted and then purchase a bike. However, I didn't have the luxury to set up 1/2 dozen bikes (with my fitting specs) and then ride 1,000 miles on each of em and keep the one I wanted. Because no one was willing to let me demo a slew of bikes, I just had Tom build me one and I'm happy to report it's exceeded my expectations. So, I went custom to increase the probability that I would end up with the right bike, and I did.

[Johny]

BD,

Custom has worked out well for me. I have shorter legs and a longer upper body. My current custom runs 52.5 st and 54.5 tt. I run a 10 cm stem. With this I get what I feel is a low center of gravity (note I said feel, as the bike is low with an 8 drop), all feels good.

With my std geo bikes, Merlin and Merckx, I ride a 54 and 53 respectively, adjusting stem length as needed as both have different tt's. They work, howver I get that feel I'm way up high on the bike, on the Merlin I am as the drop is less. Both give me less standover than the custom.

Why not a typical 52 frame (w/~53 tt) and a ~12 cm stem?

The Merlin is going, but I have been saying that for a while. It's actualy a 95 Spectrum Road, std geo.

Can you explain more why your Merlin is actually a Spectrum? Thanks.
P.S. I do know Merlin makes frames for Tom K (Spectrum).

[Todd Owen]

BD...I have my custom frames down to a 56.5 ctc top and seattube which splits the difference of a 56 or 57 and allows me to have any color flame or otherwise or geometry I wish. I let the builder bring his own ideas into the equation. I look at standard sizes and some fit very well while others seem to be racing geometry only. I also weight 205 so I ask for a frame to support that issue. I cannot buy many Derosa frames as they suggest 180 lb limits. I think beauty is in the eye of the in your case the BEER-holder and lust after the DeRosa frames but need to slim down to fit the weight limit. My choices have been more personal and don't care about resale value which seeems to run 50% of retail anyway. I think the merckx geometry and old schwinn paramount geometries fit me best stock and I can't figure out the colnago goemetry. I believe a burp is in order now? So if all frame builders made a 56.5 ish ctc frame with any color option as stock I would be IN!

[christian]

My custom geometry works well for me. With a 59cm ST and 56.5cm TT, my frame is significantly different than anything off the rack.

Not to dissuade _anyone_ from going custom, but the traditional geometry Colnagos in 59cm have a 59cm ST and a 56.9cm TT. That's pretty close to your geometry.

At least you should keep them in mind if you ever need a cheapish, used bike.

Alas, at 60cm ST x 58cm TT, _everything_ stock fits me. :(

Cheers,
- Christian

[Todd Owen]

I had a colnago ct-1 in a 58 and could never get my seat back far enough to not make my knee hurt. I know it was part psycho but had the shop owner say the same thing with his colnago experience. I have a longer femur so the fit was not right in standard size. just my experience. I love the colnago frames and wish they would fit me! maybe the rabobank or all blue color.

[va rider]

I believe Colnago measures c to t. When I posted about my frame size, I was using c to c measures. So, the Colnagos still do not have a short enough tt. And, when I size down, the head tube is way to low. But, I do admit that a 58 st/57 tt can be worked. There just are ony a few bikes built with that sizing (Gios for one). It was worth it for me to build a bike with the right tt, so that the stem length and front center were reasonable.

[jeffg]

from custom fit and tube selection, but not really custom geometry. What I mean is that my Legend was built after Kelly B. determined I was better off with a 57cm TT for optimal weight distribution. Kelly listened to my weight, intended use, etc. and said the best solution would be to use the 57cm standard geos and just change the ST measurement for standover purposes. So, Serotta in effect used their geometry while fixing my general stock bike problem (getting a long enough TT without having it smack into the family jewels). Trust me, I don't tell folks like Kelly how to design a bike. I just tell them what kind of riding I do, my weight, and let them earn their money.

[OldDog]

Johnny,

I did not like the feel of a smaller std geo and longer stem, felt like I was hanging out there too far. Steering felt funny. My builder (not a Serotta so we will keep his name out of this) set me up with geo based on a 10 stem.
Correct balance over the wheels. I'm no fit expert, I've learned more lurking here in the past year than in my 30+ years of toying with bikes, but I have learned of importance of fore/aft balance. I've found that magic sweet spot in my new ride, based on the longer tt and 10 stem.

Merlin/Spectrum? My Spectrum is a Merlin Std Road, Spectrumized. In 1994/1995 Merlin was still in MA, it's own company. Tom Kellogg worked with Merlin since their beginning (88?). Tom would procure raw frames from them, either std geo or custom, finish them and resell them as Specturms. Check his website for accurate details. When I went down in January of 95 and did a fit, Tom suggested a std geo would work for me. Merlin had a quantity of frames in stock, overstock from some euro team canceling an order. Some were std geo, straight gauge tubes. Tom set me up on a 54 w/ 54.5 tt. My first ti ride (and only), I loved it, but, its more of a crit style bike (sits high) than sport/road bike I care for <now>. I would love to get a custom ti from Tom, but it's a lot of dough, as is any quality custom ti frame. I'm happy with my steel custom. Specturms are now all custom, made at Merlin in TN by certian individuals picked by Tom. Again, check with Tom for full details, I do not mean to speak on behalf of him.

As far as the 53 Merckx goes, I snagged a NOS off ebay last fall and built it with Chorus. A MX Leader. I really dig that bike. It rivils my custom in fit and feel, though has toe overlap. No problem. Hey, it's an Eddy!

[M_A_Martin]

I think "Measurably Benefited" is the key question here.
I have a custom Kirk with a 52cm seat tube and a 50cm top tube, custom stem and fork. I feel that it is a true custom bike, and I have noticed measurable benefits from the custom geometry.
(For background: Previously I had ridden 48cm seat tube bikes with normal stems to get that short top tube, but lots of seat tube and stem showing to get the height I needed, or bikes in the 53/54cm seat tube range with really short stems. I’ve also test ridden several women specific design bikes in my size.)

I'll put a few things down that I feel are measurably different between my previous bikes, the WSD bikes I test rode, and my new custom geometry bike:

My custom bike has more stability/better bike handling/better balance:
No wobble on high speed descents,
No stuttering/bouncing on rough pavement,
No front wheel washout on turns
Easier climbing (I can climb hills on my double chain ring that I previously used the granny of a triple to climb...and I was in better shape when I was pushing the triple)

My custom bike has better fit:
No more soft tissue bruises or saddle sores.
Ability to do distance (centuries) without sit bone, soft tissue, shoulder, or wrist issues, or numb fingers.

The other idea was that "custom" geometry throws out all the tried and true bike geometry and you're stuck with something that may or may not work right. I think that all depends on the custom bike designer.

After years of looking for a bike that fit and worked...why would I sell my custom Kirk?

[RichMc]

I have a Douglas Fusion 57cm (c-c) that I bought a year & a half ago. Stock frame that I enjoyed until I got a SEVEN Axiom Ti which was a custom fit using body measurements & a few discussions about riding styles, goals & body discomforts. I thought the Douglas was fine except I would get lower neck & shoulder pain after 10 to 15 miles. With the SEVEN there is no more pain even after 80+ miles (except my butt gets a little sore sometimes) and I am about 2 miles per hour faster on the Axiom. Now I want to sell the Douglas and get something a little lower key than the Axiom but something that fits better. Two weeks from now I'm being custom fit by a Serotta dealer. Should be interesting to see how close their recommendations come to my Axiom.

[Jeff N.]

I have a Douglas Fusion 57cm (c-c) that I bought a year & a half ago. Stock frame that I enjoyed until I got a SEVEN Axiom Ti which was a custom fit using body measurements & a few discussions about riding styles, goals & body discomforts. I thought the Douglas was fine except I would get lower neck & shoulder pain after 10 to 15 miles. With the SEVEN there is no more pain even after 80+ miles (except my butt gets a little sore sometimes) and I am about 2 miles per hour faster on the Axiom. Now I want to sell the Douglas and get something a little lower key than the Axiom but something that fits better. Two weeks from now I'm being custom fit by a Serotta dealer. Should be interesting to see how close their recommendations come to my Axiom.Doncha just love your Axiom? Such a finely made frame. Jeff N.

[RichMc]

I love it more with each passing week. It was never supposed to be the daily ride but I can't help myself. That is why I'm looking for another ride that fits better than the Douglas but is less expensive. If the Serotta fitting puts me into a range of stock frame sizes that'd be great. If they recommend some special geometry then I'll have to deal with that as it comes, a Serotta or otherwise. For me the custom fit made a huge difference. Now I just have to get this worn body into better shape and that's slow, hard, dedicated work. That's biking, that's life.

[bags27]

Just as coylifut, I got the full fitting treatment from Tom Kellogg. I'm 57 and ride brevets and double centuries. I get my share of aches and pains. Tom built a bike for me that is completely comfortable and yet responsive.

As I see it, I paid $6K for the perfect fit, and Tom threw in a bike for free.

[Kevin]

Because of the length of my legs and a bad knee I need an effective STA of about 70.5 - 71.0. You can only get that with a custom frame. So for one I benefit from a custom frame because it lets me ride.

Kevin

[kidamaro]

It definetly did me a world of good. 59 ST, 55 TT. Taller stock bikes had reaches that were too long, and shorter bikes, just couldn't get the handle bars up high enough. Makes a big difference on long ride comfort.

[shinomaster]

I think the problem with custom is that most fitters out there are confused. I have met few I trust and I have lived in two big cities.
If a person really wants a particular bike like a seven axiom or a csi and they have a funky body then yes custom is the only way to get fit to THAT particular bike. I think if people look around they can find a frame that fits them, especially with all the compact frames now.
I don't believe that my custom Atlanta fits or handles better than my stock cannondale. But it was the only way I could get a Serotta that would fit me. However I would not have looked at Serotta's if I was not told that I need custom geometry. Make sense? No??
Sadly that is how I came to be a Serotta owner and How I came to be here.

Don't think I'm not happy and full of love!