Did I break an unwriten rule?

[Geoff]

I was racing on Sunday and we were at about 3k to go. I was about 15-20 back and tring to move up. The top 8-10 guys were two wide and behind them it was spread out taking up the whole lane and nobody was moving up. The yellow line was in effect and they were doing a pretty good job enforcing it so I moved to the inside took a few good looks at the road edge to be sure there were no holes and the transition to pavement was ok. Everything looked good so I took off up the grass on the right and got a pretty good jump and a good gap that got the whole wind up going. They caught me with about 4-500 m to go, but our team still edged out the win.

So after the line I got some guys pissed off that I passed on the right is this a rule that I am not aware of? I wouldnt normally do this I was just pissed at what seemed to be blocking and or just plain slack riding by the guys not quite at the front. And it was fun.

G

[BUTCH RIDES]

no rule on that egos only and you got more guts
bye

[girlie]

Whatever it takes to move up:)
I always ask people if they have two jobs...riding for their team and being an official. They look at you funny then shut up.

Leave the officiating to the officials.

Good for you and sounds like fun.

[saab2000]

Good job. Do it again. Next time it might work.

[William]

No rule & good job

That happened to me at the district Road Championship one year. The peloton was grouped together (large field), and I ended up getting stuck toward the back with my guys waiting for me up front. I kept trying to look for holes but nothing was opening up and we were getting closer to the line and everyone was getting twitchy. Finally I moved over to the right and saw the shoulder, gravel and dirt, then ditch. I just took off onto the gravel saying “on your right, on your right”, as I passed the group and jumped back in on the front, at which point my guys took off with me in tow. Normally I like a long power sprint but we were closer to the line by the time I got around every one and was still winding up. Got clipped at the line by a tire and got second place. Got a few comments on a “ballsey” move, but no complaints.



William

[Karin Kirk]

Nice move! I think the reactions you got may have been due to their surprise at an unexpected move. You may have caught people off guard which could feel a little unsafe/unsettling to everyone else.

But it's perfectly legal and rather smart, so long as you transitioned back onto the road gracefully.

Nice work!

[J.Greene]

The only problem is if your one of the guys who can't handle a bike. If your good you did what it took to win.

JG

[Steelhead]

good move. :)

[Ginger]

It's not a group ride, it's a race.

From what I hear, I think some people get those lines blurred.

[BUTCH RIDES]

Hello, bike racing 101
1) forget what happens during the race after the race


2) be bad and tell them F u and give them the finger
3) or both 1 and 2
bye bye

[Cdub]

Great move. :beer:

I have never heard an official say at the beginning of a race that you cannot move up on the inside.

1) yellow/ center line rule, ok!
2)grass rule, not so much.

[Tom]

Funny. My brother's kid that races a lot told me two pieces of advice when I asked him what I should do... in my first cat 5 race.

One was to stick to the shoulder if I want to get by... it always widens on the right.

And, apparently, you can make it wider like you did. That was smart.

[fiamme red]

From Jared Bunde's report (http://www.racelistings.com/rzone/articles/article.asp?recid=198) of his first Belgian kermesse:

My powers of observation informed me that one of the best places to move up in the field is on the sidewalk, something that I was at first hesitant to try. On some sections of the course, the road was separated from the sidewalk by a short hedge row. Many times I saw guys enter the sidewalk through a driveway, catapult forward, and re-enter through the next drive. The most direct route through a turn would often be a sidewalk. A teammate of mine said that he saw guys actually cutting through a front yard to advance in the turns, trimming the distance traveled and avoiding a swing set in process.

[e-RICHIE]

From Jared Bunde's <cut>

what's the latest with bundemo atmo?

[flux]

Hello, bike racing 101
1) forget what happens during the race after the race




Get's it.

[sspielman]

As near as I can tell the only rule that you broke was to pass a whiner that didn't want to be passed....

[RABikes2]

Good thinking and good job Geoff! :banana:
RA

[Blue Jays]

"...It's not a group ride, it's a race. From what I hear, I think some people get those lines blurred...""...As near as I can tell the only rule that you broke was to pass a whiner that didn't want to be passed..."Precisely correct. They had a choice to ride hard or get out of the way and you assisted them with the decision. You did fine. :beer:

[Redturbo]

no harm=no foul in my book ;)

[coylifut]

Precisely correct. They had a choice to ride hard or get out of the way and you assisted them with the decision. You did fine. :beer:

I agree with your agreement. nothing worse than a slow arsed plugged-up pack heading towards a sprint. you made it safer for everyone by launching off the front and stringing out the field. My only caution is to not do that in lose gravel and crash. I've seen that before - you'll be branded as a tool frome there on out.

[avalonracing]

I guess I'll be the first guy to disagree. If someone crashed me out because he is trying to ride up soft shoulder I would be inclined to kick his ***.

That said, you pulled it off so shame on the guys at the front that were going slow enough that someone can ride on grass and get to the front.

What category was this race?

[BUTCH RIDES]

Hello do you have to ask?
bye

[coylifut]

Hello do you have to ask?
bye

it clearly wasn' the masters 1/2/3 cat in a socal crit that's for sure.

[paczki]

I always ask people if they have two jobs...riding for their team and being an official. They look at you funny then shut up.

That's a good one :banana:

[J.Greene]

My only caution is to not do that in lose gravel and crash. I've seen that before - you'll be branded as a tool frome there on out.

In my first race of the year two weekends ago a few guys crashed riding a straight line, ***! I'm a little more heads up the first few races of the year. The fields are bigger and people remember themselves as better than they really are.

JG

[thejen12]

Everything looked good so I took off up the grass on the right and got a pretty good jump and a good gap that got the whole wind up going.

Just to be different, I'd say it sounds like you went off the course. If this was a road race and you went into the grass to get around, that's not part of the road. Remember the tour stage where Beloki (I think?) slid out on the hot pavement and Lance went off the road to avoid him and rode through the grass and then dismounted and hopped a ditch and got back onto the road and finished the stage? There was talk of DQ-ing him because he left the course, but they ultimately decided not to.

What defines the course? If there is a sweeping right-hand curve and you cut across on the grass to shorten the distance, is that okay? Where do you draw the line? I would guess that you draw the line at staying on the road.

Could be that this kind of stuff is done all the time and no one really cares, but my guess (I am NOT an official) is that, technically, going off the road would be leaving the course.

Jenn

[MassBiker]

One of the funnist things I ever saw in a race was some dude trying this same move.
He moved up nicely but then the time came to get back in and nobody was letting him in, he pleaded and pleaded but to no avail. Eventually he came to a drainage ditch and had to stop dead in his tracks, he went form about 10th on the outside to dead last in about 2 seconds.
No problems getting out there but you'd better be sure you can get in safely.

:beer:

[Geoff]

I guess I'll be the first guy to disagree. If someone crashed me out because he is trying to ride up soft shoulder I would be inclined to kick his ***.


That said, you pulled it off so shame on the guys at the front that were going slow enough that someone can ride on grass and get to the front.

What category was this race?

I did say i checked it out first. I have had quite bit of mtb experience and ride my road bike on gravel/dirt farily often, but yes I would agree that the key to all of this is having it work other wise any riducule would be accepted.

This was the 4/5 35+ Georgia cup race in Albany.

[avalonracing]

I did say i checked it out first. I have had quite bit of mtb experience and ride my road bike on gravel/dirt farily often, but yes I would agree that the key to all of this is having it work other wise any riducule would be accepted.

This was the 4/5 35+ Georgia cup race in Albany.

I ride/race MTBs as well so I understand that you can ride off of the pavement but I've also seen guys try to get back into the pack after riding off the soft shoulder and while they were fine on the shoulder it was the move back in that takes them (and usually others) out.

As the post above mentioned the guys in the higher categories won't be as kind in letting you back in. But in the upper cats you wouldn't be able to pass riders while on the grass because at that point in the race the field will be moving at 25+mph.

I understand the frustration of being caught behind a group of guys toward the end of the race but the way around that is don't be there. It's hard to launch an attack, chase a break or block from the back.

I'm not ridiculing you at all. I'm just offering opinion (which you asked for) and advice (a bonus!)

[Orin]

It's not a group ride, it's a race.

From what I hear, I think some people get those lines blurred.

Yeah. Racing, I expected to be passed on either side. On a group ride, being passed on the inside would surprise me and I'd prefer that they'd call a warning, but it's not likely to cause me a problem.

Orin.

[stevep]

only comment is its very risky ... one thing to get bumped off the road and squeeze back on.
if you hit a dip or some soft/ high shoulder and crashed into the field trying to get back onto the road you would probably have a line of guys looking to beat the piiss out of you rightfully.

i say bad move.
next time you'll see some tool try the same thing and the odds stack up into a big disaster.

the trick ( if its a trick ) is to know how many laps to go and ride accordingly...
read- dont be back there.
and as mentioned in a good vet field or a lower number field they wouldnt let you back out there so easily.

[e-RICHIE]

...in a good vet field or a lower number field they wouldnt let you back out there so easily.

Puccipedia 181.2 atmo -

[William]

and as mentioned in a good vet field or a lower number field they wouldnt let you back out there so easily.


Unless you've passed them all. :p



William

[SWorks4me]

I am really surprised at all the positive encouragement on this topic. As it has been mentioned, in a less experienced category, i am fearful it would turn into a monkey see, monkey do routine and as "pucci" said, the next person no matter how well intentioned is more than likely going to stack it and hurt himself and most likely some others.
I think the majority of us that have or do race in the p/1/2 fields have all jumped a curb or had to find a creative "lane", but not so much for advancement but just plain survival.
what you did was crafty, and cunning. Now apply that to reading the race, stay out of the back and make a move off the front...you will enjoy it and your peers will appreciate it...

be safe out there!

[Chris]

I think the move was one of spontaneity and inexperience. I am not trying to slam you. You won't see a move like that in the higher categories because things get sorted out a little better and most guys have learned the etiquette in racing a little more. Part of winning or placing in a race is putting yourself in a place to do so well before the finish. If the finish comes and you find yourself in a place where there is nowhere to go, you find yourself in a losing place. Nothing to do, but try to stay upright and follow the wheels in. Except for the guys that get paid to do this (and get the whole road to do it on) most of us have to go home and then back to work the next day. If my trip home was via a detour through the hospital because someone pulled a move like that, I would be more than a little upset. We tend to race the same guys week in and week out. We share some responsibility for their safety on the road. Whether you made it this time or not, you put a lot of guys at a greater risk than you needed to. I would prefer for your sake and the guys next to you that you don't do it again, unless you get pushed out there. Then it is a different story.

[girlie]

I can understand the negative responses a bit better not...my knee jerk reaction was more of....leave the officiating to the officials. I really dislike it when the riders take on that role. A pack full of opinion and talk talk talk and bossy b*tching - men or women!

Also, because none of us where there I gave Geoff the benefit of the doubt......if he was able to open a gap with this move I assumed the terrain was fine. I have seen many pro women and men make these kind of moves. I guess the point is they are pro and it was extreme situations.

So in the end I have to say Geoff - In a race everything is an adrenaline choice.....ask yourself = is it worth the chance, is it that important, what's at stake, if YOU judge it is then the rest NEEDS to "stay in the race" and/or be left to the officials.

So it depends.....judgment call and know your limits and your opponents limits.....and sorry for my knee jerk response - it was the adrenaline :cool:

[Too Tall]

Packs that spread curb to ctr. line during the race means they ain't working hard enough. ATTACK their butts and shake it up, don't tolerate negative tactics.

[William]

I've seen moves like that many times in the upper categories....pros included. And yes, the goal is to stay at the front when it counts....but...sometimes you get stuck into the fodder, it happens in big fields (which it pretty much always was when I was racing), and you have to find a way out. I always had a primal urge to stay near the front, esp in crits. It was rare, but occasionally you get stuck. No big deal in the middle of a race, but if it happens near the line, you have two choices: Frack it and give up, or find a way through/around. If you know your abilities, you weigh the chances of success in a split second...go or no go. Sure crap can happen, but I've seen more crashes caused by maneuvers on the road, then guys jumping curbs or riding the shoulder.

There's always a chance for success or disaster. It's a fine line. How many have become winners by taking a chance.....who would have been considered bone heads had it not worked?

You made it. Nothing happened. There's always a handful of whiners in the group who'd complain that you sucked their wheel to beat them in the sprint. Duh! :D


Good thinking. Good handling. You pulled it off.



William

[Geoff]

only comment is its very risky ... one thing to get bumped off the road and squeeze back on.
if you hit a dip or some soft/ high shoulder and crashed into the field trying to get back onto the road you would probably have a line of guys looking to beat the piiss out of you rightfully.

i say bad move.
next time you'll see some tool try the same thing and the odds stack up into a big disaster.

the trick ( if its a trick ) is to know how many laps to go and ride accordingly...
read- dont be back there.
and as mentioned in a good vet field or a lower number field they wouldnt let you back out there so easily.

Ok I did get edged out on to the grass earlier in the race by some fool messing with his computer so I did know the shoulder was not too soft and I was not "back there" at most I was 15 guys back in a field of 65. I had ridden at the front all day and for some reason a set of guys stopped working with a few km to go and were in effect blocking. Also they didnt let me back in I came back in about 20 feet ahead of the group that was going about 23-24mph. I am sure that a better field would not have stopped working comming up to the final of a race.

So you are saying that there is an unwritten rule that I broke?

And thanks for calling me a tool.

G

[avalonracing]

- In a race everything is an adrenaline choice.....ask yourself = is it worth the chance, is it that important, what's at stake

Good point but the problem with that is that a broken arm or collar bone from racing might be a badge of honor and street cred to a guy who works in a bike shop while the same injury could put another guy out of an income for weeks (whether he is a surgeon or steelworker). It shouldn't be up to the guy who might not care about crashing to figure out whether the sketch move is "worth it".

The guys who go anywhere in racing are the guys who are strong from making the moves and attacking when the time is right. While a move like this might work out once or twice in a lower category race the only way to do well week after week is to be strong and knowing how to read the race. Race hard but race clean.

[Blue Jays]

/\/\ Excellent analysis as well by avalonracing.

[J.Greene]

So you are saying that there is an unwritten rule that I broke?
G

There is no rule that you broke. But here is the deal imho. You were with cat4/5 riders. Early season races invite big packs and everyone's pack skills are rusty. You pulled the move off, it worked, but what if you would have not pulled it off? The smarter move would to be at the front.

JG

[William]

The guys who go anywhere in racing are the guys who are strong from making the moves and attacking when the time is right. While a move like this might work out once or twice in a lower category race the only way to do well week after week is to be strong and knowing how to read the race. Race hard but race clean.

True and good points. Except the only happens in "lower category" races. I've seen sketchy stuff happen in 1, 2, and 3 categories. No, it's not the type of thing that happens all the time. But the guys with more skill are the ones more apt to try it. 4 & 5's are more apt to take each other out from not holding their line in the group, not knowing how to handle bumping in tight quarters, or being all over the road sprinting.

Just my opinion & experience.


William

[stevep]

a. i didnt call you a tool. get somebody else to read my post if you cant figure it out.
b. many officials would dq you for dangerous riding for a stunt like that
( thats a written rule )
c. every time you make a move like that you make the race more dangerous for everyone in it. is it worth it to you? do you care about that? what about when 2 guys try the same thing? 3 guys?

thats the choice that you are making.
those are my thoughts. take 'em or leave them. the collarbone you break may belong to some guy w/o health insurance who will be stuck with a $5,000 bill so you could move up in the field cause you fell asleep at the back or some guy who wont be able to work for 3 weeks cause of it.
there are inherent dangers in riding a bike and racing.
i see no good reason to multiply these dangers.




Ok I did get edged out on to the grass earlier in the race by some fool messing with his computer so I did know the shoulder was not too soft and I was not "back there" at most I was 15 guys back in a field of 65. I had ridden at the front all day and for some reason a set of guys stopped working with a few km to go and were in effect blocking. Also they didnt let me back in I came back in about 20 feet ahead of the group that was going about 23-24mph. I am sure that a better field would not have stopped working comming up to the final of a race.

So you are saying that there is an unwritten rule that I broke?

And thanks for calling me a tool.

G

[BUTCH RIDES]

Hello on things like this listen to stevep
bye

[e-RICHIE]

there are inherent dangers in riding a bike and racing.
i see no good reason to multiply these dangers.
then don'tmo.
being stuck behind a group is a tactical choice - the wrong one.
train upstairs too (atmo points to temple).
race on pavement.

[Geoff]

There is no rule that you broke. But here is the deal imho. You were with cat4/5 riders. Early season races invite big packs and everyone's pack skills are rusty. You pulled the move off, it worked, but what if you would have not pulled it off? The smarter move would to be at the front.

JG


Ok what are you guys calling the front? I thought I was at the front the whole day, heloing to set pace making a two attacks. I concider the front being in the top 20% or so of riders. You cant be the first guy all day some times you move back to get a rest right or is every one here that strong?

JG are you going to be at Webster? I promise not to go in the dirt until the drit section.

[GregL]

My take (from someone who will never be more than a Cat 4 Masters 35+ rider...): if you end up in a bad position in the pack, its usually your own fault. You have to use the course to your advantage and move up appropriately when the course and pace allow (hills, lulls between attacks, etc...). If you're stuck in the back at the end of the race, you probably weren't planning effectively. You shouldn't have to cross the yellow line or move on to a dangerous shoulder to get good position. You will only piss off your competitors.

[J.Greene]

is every one here that strong?

JG are you going to be at Webster? I promise not to go in the dirt until the drit section.

I'm not. I'm more likely to be off the back than off the front. I'm hesitant to criticize since I was not in Albany.

I'll be at Webster though, it's our backyard.

JG

[avalonracing]

Ok what are you guys calling the front? I thought I was at the front the whole day, heloing to set pace making a two attacks. I concider the front being in the top 20% or so of riders. You cant be the first guy all day some times you move back to get a rest right or is every one here that strong?

JG are you going to be at Webster? I promise not to go in the dirt until the drit section.

You have to know your race and know the riders. How are you going to get through the field and run down a break if you are in the back resting? Hell, if you are in the back resting you won't even know when a break goes up the road.
It's a little different if you are on a pro team with radios and it is 20 miles into a 120 mile race. In a 4/5 race the distances are short enough and the packs are scared enough, that someone can ride off the front at any point and stay away. Of course those guys are often Cat 2s by the end of the season.

[Geoff]

a. i didnt call you a tool. get somebody else to read my post if you cant figure it out.
b. many officials would dq you for dangerous riding for a stunt like that
( thats a written rule )
c. every time you make a move like that you make the race more dangerous for everyone in it. is it worth it to you? do you care about that? what about when 2 guys try the same thing? 3 guys?

thats the choice that you are making.
those are my thoughts. take 'em or leave them. the collarbone you break may belong to some guy w/o health insurance who will be stuck with a $5,000 bill so you could move up in the field cause you fell asleep at the back or some guy who wont be able to work for 3 weeks cause of it.
there are inherent dangers in riding a bike and racing.
i see no good reason to multiply these dangers.

I know you didnt call ME a tool you said next time I see some tool try the same thing and the odds stack up into a big disaster. So if the next person who tries it is a tool then the first must be also? Maybe not, and I was not asleep at the back.

And I almost never take risks. I am an engineer and has a wife and two kids at home that depend on me going to work on Monday so I understand the risks. I make a living weighing risk. I stated originally that I weighed the risks and didnt feel like there were any significant risks in this event. The grass was not soft, the transition back to the road was level, there were no holes or ditches, the field was not going that fast that I thought I coulnt move quickly to the front and get back on the road, so I went. If there had been isue at the side of the road I would not have tried this. I guess there are always unseen things but I have seen many wrecks in all cats and pros because of unseen things in the road by some one not on the front.

G

[Geoff]

You have to know your race and know the riders. How are you going to get through the field and run down a break if you are in the back resting? Hell, if you are in the back resting you won't even know when a break goes up the road.
It's a little different if you are on a pro team with radios and it is 20 miles into a 120 mile race. In a 4/5 race the distances are short enough and the packs are scared enough, that someone can ride off the front at any point and stay away. Of course those guys are often Cat 2s by the end of the season.

OK I was not at the back for the last time like all of you keep insisting.

When I say move back to rest I mean from the front working to where i was when I got blocked about 15 guys back.

What do you concider being at the front or in good position. Like I said above I think it is being in the top 20% of riders.

[stevep]

And I almost never take risks.
G

theres adrenaline to take account of.
not a good move i thk.
let it rest here.

[Geoff]

I'm not. I'm more likely to be off the back than off the front. I'm hesitant to criticize since I was not in Albany.

I'll be at Webster though, it's our backyard.

JG

I road it last year and had a great time despit missing the split because of a couple of flats on the dirt in front of me. I will be there this year too.

[Geoff]

theres adrenaline to take account of.
not a good move i thk.
let it rest here.


Yup, I always ask for advice but never seem to take it well. I can say this, next time there will be more than one thought going through my head if Im thinking about making a move like this agian.

G

[Chris]

Ok what are you guys calling the front? I thought I was at the front the whole day, heloing to set pace making a two attacks. I concider the front being in the top 20% or so of riders. You cant be the first guy all day some times you move back to get a rest right or is every one here that strong?

JG are you going to be at Webster? I promise not to go in the dirt until the drit section.

Geoff, I am weighing in, because you asked for advice. I think overall you have taken it well. You clearly don't know Steve or you wouldn't have taken offense to his advice. It's tough to read things on the interweb without placing your own inflection in the speech.

As for the "front", you have to think of it being dynamic. ESPECIALLY in the 4/5s and often in the 3s. Usually by the end of a road race in the 1/2s, the field has blown apart enough that things are sorted out a little better, although field sprints do happen. Anyway, the "front" in the first half of the race may be the front half of the group, with a lap to go on a circuit it may be the top 20, and with a lap to go in a crit the "front" is the top 5 guys. The "front" is the place that you can make a move when needed to affect the outcome of your race without placing yourself or others in danger. If you can't do that, you aren't at the "front" and you made a tactical mistake. We all do it most races, don't sweat it. Learn from it. Steve's right. If you make a move that is just considered dangerous by an official, you are subject to a penalty. They call it "Road" racing for a reason. :)

[J.Greene]

I road it last year and had a great time despit missing the split because of a couple of flats on the dirt in front of me. I will be there this year too.

Maybe I'll see you there.

JG

[AmFlyer]

Sounds indeed like a solid pass to me. Well, I guess it is fine by me because I have done that before.

:D

[Blue Jays]

To play devil's advocate, if a handful of race participants suddenly opt to "toss out the anchor" at the end of a roadrace, others riders are simply going to go around them...

[swoop]

you do what you have to do but you know.. you have to race these guys every week. and as you get better... the guys will learn how to defend their wheels and you will get put into the barriers.

maybe work on being in the right place with two to go... cuz i hate to say it.. but you didn't even podium.... so it was lame move given the context.

in these races there will be that swamping and the surge.. its because the guys up front aren't going fast enough .... you're going to have to learn creative ways to be in the right pace.. and moving up in the gutter or grass is legit.. its really about how you come in.

you also really really have to have allies.... you'll need them at some point.

[swoop]

OK I was not at the back for the last time like all of you keep insisting.

When I say move back to rest I mean from the front working to where i was when I got blocked about 15 guys back.

What do you concider being at the front or in good position. Like I said above I think it is being in the top 20% of riders.

15 guys back is no good. that's too far back. be 5th wheel with three to go and hold it. learn to jump the surge to maintain 5th through 3rd wheel.

[Blue Jays]

The OP was making this tactical move nearly two miles from the finish. It doesn't sound like a hasty last-minute thing at the very end of the event.

[e-RICHIE]

The OP was making this tactical move nearly two miles from the finish. It doesn't sound like a hasty last-minute thing at the very end of the event.
two miles out is an eternity.
wrong movemo.

[Blue Jays]

/\/\ e-Richie, I hear you.
My point is that the technique likely shouldn't have surprised anyone to the point of crashing because they weren't yet in a heated sprint to the line.
The effects of "tunnel-vision" shouldn't have been a factor yet is what I'm saying.

[e-RICHIE]

/\/\ e-Richie, I hear you.
My point is that the technique likely shouldn't have surprised anyone to the point of crashing because they weren't yet in a heated sprint to the line.
The effects of "tunnel-vision" shouldn't have been a factor yet is what I'm saying.
i'm puttin up with what you're layin downmo.

[William]

/\/\ e-Richie, I hear you.
My point is that the technique likely shouldn't have surprised anyone to the point of crashing because they weren't yet in a heated sprint to the line.
The effects of "tunnel-vision" shouldn't have been a factor yet is what I'm saying.

I'm not sayin' it should be SOP, but no one worth their salt should be surprised by it either.


Just sayin'. :)


William

[Blue Jays]

William, you're exactly correct. A seasoned rider should be able to look to the right, see a competitor on the grass, and not freak-out or be totally surprised.
They will then need to hold their position, accelerate, or brake to do what is needed to protect their front wheel.
The race officials will do their thing to determine if rules have been broken.

[coylifut]

William, you're exactly correct. A seasoned rider should be able to look to the right, see a competitor on the grass, and not freak-out or be totally surprised.
They will then need to hold their position, accelerate, or brake to do what is needed to protect their front wheel.
The race officials will do their thing to determine if rules have been broken.

I say all races should be held on grass and then we don't have a problem.

[Blue Jays]

/\/\ Doesn't that sometimes get a little dirty or muddy? ;)

[manet]

the front has nipples

[girlie]

shut up and race ;) :beer:

[Blue Jays]

shut up and race ;) :beer:Precisely. One must carefully protect his/her front wheel.

[coylifut]

/\/\ Doesn't that sometimes get a little dirty or muddy? ;)

I've always thought this would be fun.

[BUTCH RIDES]

I've always thought this would be fun.
ah now we have it
bye

[manet]

I've always thought this would be fun.

me 2 T !!

[Geoff]

you do what you have to do but you know.. you have to race these guys every week. and as you get better... the guys will learn how to defend their wheels and you will get put into the barriers.

maybe work on being in the right place with two to go... cuz i hate to say it.. but you didn't even podium.... so it was lame move given the context.

But I our fast guy did get 1st, largely because of this unwanted acceleration.

in these races there will be that swamping and the surge.. its because the guys up front aren't going fast enough .... you're going to have to learn creative ways to be in the right pace.. and moving up in the gutter or grass is legit.. its really about how you come in. Agreed, in this case there was no problem coming back in smooth as butter

you also really really have to have allies.... you'll need them at some point. Agreed

This is from the race organizers in response to what must have been a complaint.

"Many of you maybe aware that USA Cycling officials will DQ anyone for "attacking" over the centerline (not the yellow - the center of the road). Simply moving up will get you relegated to the back but "Attacking" will get you DQ'd. There are times in RR when the official will go ahead of the group for time checks and other reasons - this is NOT the time to break the rules and "ATTACK" - even if you are 'legally' being blocked. It is completely legal, however, to "ATTACK" from the grass at your own risk. Please contact USA Cycling for more details to the rule."

They did preface it with this

"Rules of the road can sometimes be gray and that is why the GC will always defer to the officials for their judgment. At the same time, we pray that patrons will respect the rules and be sure to make safety of themselves and others the #1 priority - above racing."

The officials thought nothing of my move where as they were relegating people all day for passing the yellow line.

G

[girlie]

Now you're scaring me.

[Chris]

The question was did you break an unwritten rule.
The answer remains yes.