Campy G3 Wheels?

[97CSI]

Need one more set of wheels and am looking at Campy's Khamsin, Vento and Scirocco wheelsets, which are all based on their 'G3' spoke design technology. Has anyone any experience with any of these wheels? If so, what do you think? Thanks.

[Alexi]

i've had a few pairs of the ventos, I sold them all to upgrade to chorus and white industries hubs

[MilanoTom]

i've had a few pairs of the ventos, I sold them all to upgrade to chorus and white industries hubs

I've got a a set of Sciroccos (2004 or so) and Khamsins. I've had no problems, but I can't really say that the spoking seems to make much of a difference over any other wheels I've had. Perhaps it does in the higher-end models.

Tom

[Kervin]

I've got a set of Eurus wheels that I am very happy with. G3 rear, radial front. I have had NO experience with a G3 front, but I read a blog on Sprinter della Casa (http://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.com/search?q=g3) that got me thinking it wasn't a good idea for the front.

[97CSI]

OK......I'm easy. Your info and various postings on the web have convinced me to order a set of the Scirocco wheels. If I like and my weight drops back to a Campy certified 178, I may try a set of the Neutons in the future. Will now have a 100% Campy CSI (excepting the PW BB and Thomson seatpost).

[Matt Barkley]

I have found all the campy (and fulcrum) prebuilts to be of the best quality and durability. G3 all the way. :beer:

[handsomerob]

OK......I'm easy. Your info and various postings on the web have convinced me to order a set of the Scirocco wheels. If I like and my weight drops back to a Campy certified 178, I may try a set of the Neutons in the future. Will now have a 100% Campy CSI (excepting the PW BB and Thomson seatpost).

If you think you need to be 178lbs to ride Neutrons, you are being WAY TOO cautious. Neutrons by most accounts are about as bombproof as you can get. I have been riding Zondas with a weight between 190-210 and they have yet to go out of true in about 3000 miles. I think most heavier riders have found Campy wheels to be very dependable YMMV.

[97CSI]

OT: Matt, are you formerly Laterne Rouge of Rockville, MD? If so, my niece is still riding that wonderul S3 I bought from you in '03 and my friend and I still ride the hardtail Blato Mtbs we got from you. Wonderful stuff. If not, Scapin bikes are still very nice.

[sbornia]

I really liked my Zondas until I bent the rear rim on a small but deep pothole at 40mph. It was pretty much unridable after that, and replacing the rim was going to cost ~$200 with labor. Such is the cost of factory wheel upkeep. Fortunately, my local wheel guy was able to bang the rim back into good enough shape.

[handsomerob]

I really liked my Zondas until I bent the rear rim on a small but deep pothole at 40mph. It was pretty much unridable after that, and replacing the rim was going to cost ~$200 with labor. Such is the cost of factory wheel upkeep. Fortunately, my local wheel guy was able to bang the rim back into good enough shape.

Hell... if the rim is even remotely usable after hitting a deep pothole at 40mph, I would consider that an endorsement.

did you keep the rubber side down?

[HSG Racer]

I've got the latest Campy Eurus design with bladed spokes and the G3 pattern for the rear spokes. It's the best wheelset that I have ever had. I'm not sure that the G3 pattern really contributes to the functionality of the wheelset. I have tested the Fulcrum Racing 1 wheelset and it's basically the same wheelset but without the G3 pattern. ATMO - the G3 appears to be there for aesthetic reasons. Nonetheless, Campy wheels are simply the best.

[amator]

Need one more set of wheels and am looking at Campy's Khamsin, Vento and Scirocco wheelsets, which are all based on their 'G3' spoke design technology. Has anyone any experience with any of these wheels? If so, what do you think? Thanks.

Never has problems with G3 (eurus though) and I weigh close to 200 pounds in a bad month.

[97CSI]

Had settled on the Scirocco. They are be advertised several places at reasonable prices. Problem is, they are all on back order. Wonder if this is a "feeler" deal by Campy to book enough orders to make a production run. Ah, well. You know what they say about things that seem too good to be true.

[97CSI]

The saga continues.........sbornia suggested that I try LickBike.com. So I did. Like all the others, he has no black Campy Scirocco wheels. So I tried for the Zonda. Still no good. And only the rear in Eurus. But, he did give me the update on what is going on. Has become too expensive to ship by air frieght. So Campy is bringing everything over by ship. And cannot tell the vendors what delivery will be. Could be two weeks. Could be two months. Guess I'll try Campy wheels another time.

[shanerpvt]

The saga continues.........sbornia suggested that I try LickBike.com. So I did. Like all the others, he has no black Campy Scirocco wheels. So I tried for the Zonda. Still no good. And only the rear in Eurus. But, he did give me the update on what is going on. Has become too expensive to ship by air frieght. So Campy is bringing everything over by ship. And cannot tell the vendors what delivery will be. Could be two weeks. Could be two months. Guess I'll try Campy wheels another time.

Try Texas Cyclesport. Scirocco front - 169.99 & back - 249.99.

http://txcyclesport.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?

good folks. i've bought 2 wheelsets from them.

:beer:
shaner

[Larry]

2007 Campy Eurus.
Great design.
Very light.
Reports say they are really durable for such a light set.
They look way cool...... and that's important.

[97CSI]

Another question for you Campy wheel oracles. I currently have a set of '06 Record hubs (28/32) laced with DT 14/15 black spokes (3-cross) to a set of Mavic Open Pro CD rims. Which level Campy wheel is comparable? Proton/Zonda or do I need to go up to the Neutron/Eurus? I'm jonesin' bad for a set of Campy wheels, but don't want to go backwards from what I've got.

[Grant McLean]

Another question for you Campy wheel oracles. I currently have a set of '06 Record hubs (28/32) laced with DT 14/15 black spokes (3-cross) to a set of Mavic Open Pro CD rims. Which level Campy wheel is comparable? Proton/Zonda or do I need to go up to the Neutron/Eurus? I'm jonesin' bad for a set of Campy wheels, but don't want to go backwards from what I've got.

neutrons- just the regular ones, not the ultra....

... or...

If you can find a set of the 2006 neutron, those had the same alloy hub,
but with the lighter machined rim that is now used on the Neutron Ultra.

-g

[Kervin]

... I currently have a set of '06 Record hubs (28/32) laced with DT 14/15 black spokes (3-cross) to a set of Mavic Open Pro CD rims. Which level Campy wheel is comparable?....

I was using a set of wheels like that (32/32) before I got a set of Eurus wheels. To me, the Eurus are much better wheels. They feel lighter, stiffer, and seem to roll along easier. They are the first pre-built wheels I have ever had and I couldn't be happier (well, maybe if they were silver with silver spokes and a silver hub). So, I'd say the Eurus are a step up from what you have.

[97CSI]

After almost three years and reading some recent reviews (it is now possible to fix a flat out on the road with the new rims) bought a set of new Vento wheels from Wiggle. With free shipping and Xmas discounts the total was $197. Not bad for a decent set of everyday wheels.

[StellaBlue]

You get what you pay for.

[97CSI]

Indeed..... a high quality pair of everyday wheels that will look good on the Ottrott.

[oldpotatoe]

Need one more set of wheels and am looking at Campy's Khamsin, Vento and Scirocco wheelsets, which are all based on their 'G3' spoke design technology. Has anyone any experience with any of these wheels? If so, what do you think? Thanks.

"G3". like paired spokes, is marketing. The hubs for the wheels you mentioned, are cart bearing hubs and altho nice and smooth, better hubs are out there.

Unless you are getting these at some sort of deep discount mailorder/online price, I think a trip to a good wheelbuilder would result in a better wheelset. One designed specifically for you and your needs, riding style, etc..rather than a wheelouttabox. One that is more reliable, uses standard parts, like spokes, and will have better hubs.

[oldpotatoe]

Another question for you Campy wheel oracles. I currently have a set of '06 Record hubs (28/32) laced with DT 14/15 black spokes (3-cross) to a set of Mavic Open Pro CD rims. Which level Campy wheel is comparable? Proton/Zonda or do I need to go up to the Neutron/Eurus? I'm jonesin' bad for a set of Campy wheels, but don't want to go backwards from what I've got.

Anything above Sriocco or how ever the hell you spell that. Aluminum axle, just like on your Record hubs.

Want a Campagnolo wheelset? Record hubs laced to A-23 or DT 465..black spokes, black rim. OR Miche hubset, same rims, black spokes, if you want to save money. If you want the Campagnolo wheel because of looks...can't help ya there.

[Pete Serotta]

Grant, thanks,

ALso if it get too wintery in the North, come on down to Raleigh, I have plenty of room and brew for a stay. And if you want to ride a 56 or 57cm, there is one or two here. :D PETE


neutrons- just the regular ones, not the ultra....

... or...

If you can find a set of the 2006 neutron, those had the same alloy hub,
but with the lighter machined rim that is now used on the Neutron Ultra.

-g

[97CSI]

"G3". Unless you are getting these at some sort of deep discount mailorder/online price, I think a trip to a good wheelbuilder would result in a better wheelset. One designed specifically for you and your needs, riding style, etc..rather than a wheelouttabox.Checked with a couple builders and, am sure you are aware, none could come close to $197, delivered. Cartridge bearings are no problem. No pretention here....... these are flatland (when we want a 'hill' in south Jersey we find a bridge or overpass) training wheels for at least the next year. Just looking for something with Campy reliability and some 'style'. And, less money than a new set of Record hubs. :banana:

Bespoke wheels are likely in the future. I'll make arrangements to pick them up my next CO ride with Keenan.

[jlwdm]

Pete:

Grant's post was from 2008!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeff

[AngryScientist]

Checked with a couple builders and, am sure you are aware, none could come close to $197, delivered. Cartridge bearings are no problem. No pretention here....... these are flatland (when we want a 'hill' in south Jersey we find a bridge or overpass) training wheels for at least the next year. Just looking for something with Campy reliable and some 'style'. And, less money than a new set of Record hubs. :banana:

Bespoke wheels are likely in the future. I'll make arrangements to pick them up my next CO ride with Keenan.

this is spot on, for under $200, this will be an excellent wheelset, i'm sure. i've had nothing but good experiences with campy pre-built wheels, from the least expensive to the top of the line.

[FGC]

I had a set of Khamsins in gold (which they don't make anymore unfortunately) that were stellar. I trained on them every day on the road and then they got sent to the CX bike for a few of more seasons. I beat the crap out of them and they kept going. I love handbuilt wheels but you can't really beat them for the price.

[Larry]

I do not necessarily think that hand built wheels are less expensive.
I have gotten quotes for well over $700.00.

I rode the old style Campy Ventos (from years ago) for a long time. They were great even though they were heavy. It sure seemed like they blasted through cross winds in Nebraska very well. (I remember this quite well.)

Then I had a pair of Ksyriums for a while. They lasted for around 8500 miles, and then the back rim developed cracks. Rebuilt the wheel and eventually sold the pair.

That brings me to my current set of 2007 Eurus. I got an excellent price at that time. Unfortunately, I T-boned the wheel on a curb at night. It now has what seems to be a permanent wobble, which probably will never true, no matter who works on it. I REALLY like this set a lot, and would buy a new set in a flash. I may buy just a front wheel, if the opportunity comes along. Two thumbs up for Campy pre-built wheels.

[97CSI]

Ouch...... t-boning that curb was likely quite a shock.

One reason that I was intrigued by the cartridge bearing Vento wheelset is that it is relatively inexpensive to upgrade the bearings to something with very little friction, which is what I will do about this time next year when the season ends.

[Larry]

Under $200.00 for a set of pre-built wheels sounds very good. It will be interesting to see how long they last. Treat the kindly.

[97CSI]

As my everyday wheels they will jump the occasional curb, bang the occasional pot-hole and whatever else presents itself. From reading reviews the worst I should expect is an odd spoke coming loose. But, a bit of locktite on the thread when retightening eliminates that problem. And, supposedly, one can even get a tire on and off the new rims without a pneumatic tire machine, which will be a real plus on the road. Will be using 25c Conti 4-Season tires, which should be good to both the wheels and me.

[Larry]

Very good.... going with the 25's. I wish that I had known the benefits of 25's sooner. I love the ride. Also, I inflate to less pressure these days. Somewhere around 105 or 110.

[Idris Icabod]

I've got a pair of Eurus wheels from 2004 that are now on my commuter. I've honestly never touched them as far as maintainance goes and have even ridden in to a back of a broken down car which resulted in quite a few bumps and bruises on me and a cracked helmet but the wheels are still perfect.

[jimcav]

as i had them on every bike until i switched to tubular and went dv46, dv46ul, and now have settled in with edge wheels. i had no issues with any eurus on any bike--i weighed up to 178 and rode lots of hilly chip seal stuff

perhaps my fave pre-built clincher wheel to date, prior to that i rode open pro or velocity areohead mated to record hubs. although now on second thought i have to give that fav pre-built clincher award to hyperon, but they were pricey for what they are

jim

[StellaBlue]

Eurus and Vento are apples and oranges..

[FGC]

I forgot to mention that it is a bear to get tires on the Khamsins. I'm not sure about the rest of the line.

[wooly]

97CSI - here's a link to a CL ad in my area that I would be happy to look into for you if you're interested.

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/bik/2082859521.html

[AngryScientist]

97CSI - here's a link to a CL ad in my area that I would be happy to look into for you if you're interested.

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/bik/2082859521.html

ribble has them brand new for less, just sayin...

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/Wheels-Factory-Road-Triathlon-Campagnolo-Pair-Wheels-Scirocco-Black-Clincher/CAMPWHFR555

[Ken Robb]

interesting to note that the Ribble price in dollars is less than one would expect when converting from the price quoted in pounds. Maybe they deduct the VAT?

[97CSI]

Thanks for the CL & Ribble links, but have all ready ordered the new Vento set. One reason I went for the new Vento was the new rim design has been getting good reviews for ease of mounting tires/repairing flats, which is important out here in the rural wilds of south Jersey. Roads I ride are pretty lonely. Difficult to believe in the nation's most densely populated (and highly taxed) state, but blessedly true. We have miles and miles of great, paved backroads. Maybe it's the taxes.

Someday I'll likely spring for a set of Eurus wheels, but not this season. Thanks.

[AngryScientist]

interesting to note that the Ribble price in dollars is less than one would expect when converting from the price quoted in pounds. Maybe they deduct the VAT?

i believe they do. for one reason or another ribble seems to have been consistently cheaper than the other euro sites, particularly for wheels and other campy components. i've ordered a few things from them this past year, and every transaction has gone flawlessly.

[97CSI]

i believe they do. for one reason or another ribble seems to have been consistently cheaper than the other euro sites, particularly for wheels and other campy components. i've ordered a few things from them this past year, and every transaction has gone flawlessly.Ribble wants $72 to ship a cheaper set of wheels, which made their total higher than Wiggle.

[AngryScientist]

Ribble wants $72 to ship a cheaper set of wheels, which made their total higher than Wiggle.

hmm, maybe thats where they get you on the wheels, now that i think of it, i'm usually ordering smaller parts from them, shifters, deraillers, etc.

glad it worked out for you though, you really cant go wrong with any of the campy line-up in my experience.

[jtferraro]

Anybody have first hand experiences comparing/contrasting Eurus' to Shamal Ultra clinchers?
Thanks,

[StellaBlue]

Anybody have first hand experiences comparing/contrasting Eurus' to Shamal Ultra clinchers?
Thanks,

The only difference is in your head or pocket.

[97CSI]

The only difference is in your head or pocket.Any reason in particular you've found it necessary to 'troll' this thread? Nothing you've said has done anything other than make you look juvenile. :bike:

[StellaBlue]

Any reason in particular you've found it necessary to 'troll' this thread? Nothing you've said has done anything other than make you look juvenile. :bike:

Any reason you started the other thread only to get the same respone from every poster, yet you still bought the wheels everyone said not to?? Give me a break

[StellaBlue]

Enjoy the crap wheels you bought. I'll buy the protons from you..

[StellaBlue]

PS: Tell me you can feel the difference between shamal and eurus and I'll sell you a bridge in brooklyn.

[97CSI]

Enjoy the crap wheels you bought. I'll buy the protons from you..Like the seller who ignored you on the Neutrons, I too, would not want to deal with you. Reading your consistently negative posts is bad enough.

[StellaBlue]

Like the seller who ignored you on the Neutrons, I too, would not want to deal with you. Reading your consistently negative posts is bad enough.

Should I respond? Who's the child.. Get a life.. Sorry, I'm not here to stroke your ego..

[Kirk007]

StellaBlue: I've got no dog in this fight, but as an observer I find the tone of your posts here offensive, unnecessarily rude and the information shared not all that helpful.

As I recall Richard Sachs uses Khamsin wheels for winter training - gasp! What's the point in calling someone's purchase "crap"?

Moreover the Serotta forum is an ironic place to imply to people that spending more money for a lighter wheelset will make a difference only in folks wallet and in their head given that this argument can probably be applied to most of what we all purchase.

[StellaBlue]

StellaBlue: I've got no dog in this fight, but as an observer I find the tone of your posts here offensive, unnecessarily rude and the information shared not all that helpful.

As I recall Richard Sachs uses Khamsin wheels for winter training - gasp! What's the point in calling someone's purchase "crap"?

Moreover the Serotta forum is an ironic place to imply to people that spending more money for a lighter wheelset will make a difference only in folks wallet and in their head given that this argument can probably be applied to most of what we all purchase.

There ya go. If he rides um they must be the gospel. Again, don't start a thread looking for opinions if you don't want peoples opinions. I'm not gonna get into a pissing contest with a rider who bought wheels based on a G3 spoke pattern, because he "likes the look" . Every poster to a T gave the same opinion I originally gave him on the wheels he had and wanted..

Hey, it took him 3 years of research to come to this wheel choice. God Bless. They are a great set of wheels. :crap:

[StellaBlue]

StellaBlue: Moreover the Serotta forum is an ironic place to imply to people that spending more money for a lighter wheelset will make a difference only in folks wallet and in their head given that this argument can probably be applied to most of what we all purchase.

Actually I told the Op to keep the wheels he has, they are better. But you read the threads..

As for Eurus/Shamal. Anyone who says they can tell the difference between the two, is drinking the cool aid.

[jlwdm]

Moderators, please lock this a bunch of posts back!

Come on guys, this is just a bike forum.

Jeff

[oldpotatoe]

PS: Tell me you can feel the difference between shamal and eurus and I'll sell you a bridge in brooklyn.

Brass nipps aluminum hub shell in the Eurus...alu nipps, color and carbon hub shell on Shamal. No difference in ride quality. The 100 or so grams differences mean nada.

[BCS]

Brass nipps aluminum hub shell in the Eurus...alu nipps, color and carbon hub shell on Shamal. No difference in ride quality. The 100 or so grams differences mean nada.


The Shamals also have ceramic bearings. Unclear if this really matters.

[Richard]

http://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/bik/2087444471.html

Here's a link to a set with the wheelbags for $100.00.

[97CSI]

From the reviews I've read, only the Vento info stated specifically that the new wheelset (2010+) has the redesigned rim to make flat repair on the road a reasonable proposition. Something I always dread with my Protons........ doable, but definitely no fun. My understanding is that the higher end models still suffer from the very tight fitting rim/tire problem. Hopefully, by the time I am ready to consider something like Zonda or Eurus wheels, this will have 'trickled-up' to their rims.

[AngryScientist]

From the reviews I've read, only the Vento info stated specifically that the new wheelset (2010+) has the redesigned rim to make flat repair on the road a reasonable proposition. Something I always dread with my Protons........ doable, but definitely no fun. My understanding is that the higher end models still suffer from the very tight fitting rim/tire problem. Hopefully, by the time I am ready to consider something like Zonda or Eurus wheels, this will have 'trickled-up' to their rims.

fwiw, i have the shamals, and i find that once a tire is stretched on the rim for a while, its a non-issue on the road. i've been using PR3's for a while and have had a few flats, which were no harder to change on the road than any other wheels i've used.

i'll be curious to see what the new rim design looks like. :beer:

[97CSI]

Have not had the same result with Conti 4-Season tires on the Protons. Only one flat, but that was plenty. Google 'Campagnolo Vento' and open the official website. Has a good picture of the bare rim from the side. As am not familiar with the older profile, can't point out any difference.

[oldpotatoe]

The Shamals also have ceramic bearings. Unclear if this really matters.

Not unclear to me.....but yes, ceramic and thankfully, hardened races/cone, unlike some other ceramic based bearings(sram specifically).

[flydhest]

Have not had the same result with Conti 4-Season tires on the Protons. Only one flat, but that was plenty. Google 'Campagnolo Vento' and open the official website. Has a good picture of the bare rim from the side. As am not familiar with the older profile, can't point out any difference.

I echo your experience with Protons, even for tires that are nearing the end of life, and as a result, have been on, inflated, and stretched for a while.

[Kirk007]

The ease or lack thereof of getting tires on/off Campy rims varies greatly with the tire in my experience and recalling many threads on this issue. Vittoria, Schwabe, Avocet (when they were around) all go on my protons with moderate thumb pressure. Contis and Michelin were always a pita so I stopped using them - end of problem.

[flydhest]

The ease or lack thereof of getting tires on/off Campy rims varies greatly with the tire in my experience and recalling many threads on this issue. Vittoria, Schwabe, Avocet (when they were around) all go on my protons with moderate thumb pressure. Contis and Michelin were always a pita so I stopped using them - end of problem.

Sorry, I should have made clear that I also have had the experience you mention.

[97CSI]

Glad I read these last two posts. Was about to order another set of Conti 4-Seasons for the new Ventos. I'll just move the newest set to the Ventos and get something else for the Protons. What are the closest Vittoria or Schwabe to the 4-Seasons?

[dana_e]

I use the Michelin Lithion and Pro 2s

in both 23 and 25, they go on fine, a tad bit of effort

I have protons and zondas

I have heard stories of conti mot fitting well

Anyway, the Zondas are a nice wheel, you get the alu axles and nicer hub

Lesser Campy wheels use steel axle and not as nice a hub.

If I had to buy new I would get Zondas or the equivalent Fulcrum

Campy wheels rock!

Thanks Stells Blue for the hubs, I have a pair of DT Swiss 1.1 rims sitting waiting to be built

[StellaBlue]

I use the Michelin Lithion and Pro 2s

in both 23 and 25, they go on fine, a tad bit of effort

I have protons and zondas

I have heard stories of conti mot fitting well

Anyway, the Zondas are a nice wheel, you get the alu axles and nicer hub

Lesser Campy wheels use steel axle and not as nice a hub.

If I had to buy new I would get Zondas or the equivalent Fulcrum

Campy wheels rock!

Thanks Stells Blue for the hubs, I have a pair of DT Swiss 1.1 rims sitting waiting to be built

Enjoy them. They are great hubs for the money..

PS: I use 25mm Vittoria Open C's on my Neutron, Proton, Zonda, and hand built wheels. All go on with out a tool.

[Kirk007]

Glad I read these last two posts. Was about to order another set of Conti 4-Seasons for the new Ventos. I'll just move the newest set to the Ventos and get something else for the Protons. What are the closest Vittoria or Schwabe to the 4-Seasons?

I like the Vittoria Paves and the Schwabe Ultremo DDs for Fall through Spring riding. Don't know if they are as durable as the 4 seasons but I have had great luck with the 24mm paves (hopefully I haven't just jinxed myself).

[97CSI]

Found a pair of Vittoria Rubino Pro IIIs for $69, shipped, so will give them a try. Have never owned a pair of Vittorias, so will be new territory for me. Thanks for the info.

[97CSI]

Vento wheel set arrived in good shape this morning. Amazing that Wiggle can ship these to the U.S. for $197. Also, bought that CL set of Sciroccos just to see if they are as bad as everyone indicates.

[AngryScientist]

Also, bought that CL set of Sciroccos just to see if they are as bad as everyone indicates.

not everyone - i love my 'roccos!

[StellaBlue]

Vento wheel set arrived in good shape this morning. Amazing that Wiggle can ship these to the U.S. for $197. Also, bought that CL set of Sciroccos just to see if they are as bad as everyone indicates.

So, instead of buying one decent set of wheels, you bought two sub-par sets. Awesome.. :beer:

[97CSI]

Maybe it will be those of us who live in beautiful downtown NJ that will like them.

Where are you a scientist? I was an MTS in Area 10 at Bell Labs, Murray Hill in a previous life.

Ha ha..... went. Back to Wiggle to purchase a set of Zonda wheels. The XMAS-20 coupon I used on the Vento set was just too good to pass up. Guess Wiggle agrees........ they changed the coupon so that it no longer applies to wheel sets.

[97CSI]

One of the marketing features of the new Vento wheel set is a rim on which one can mount the tire without the typical 'Campy struggle'. After fighting a pair of nearly new (<100 miles) Conti GP4000s off a pair of Protons with a pair of plastic levers I was able to install them on the Vento rims with my thumbs, except for the last 2-3 inches. Could have done the entire tire with my thumbs, but was just easier to use one flip of the lever and be done. A very nice difference. Looking forward to my first flat. :confused:

Edit: Well.......since I seem to be talking to myself now in any event, I was back on Wiggle looking for something else and noticed that their 20% off coupon (XMAS-20) not longer excluded wheels. So, I tried again with a pair of Campy Zondas for $556 and applied the coupon. It now gives 20% off on the original list price of whatever. Final price came in at $497 with free shipping. As that is well over $100 less then the best I've found in a couple of weeks of shopping in the U.S., I bought them. Vento (1800gr) for training and Zonda (1555gr) for climbing should be a good combo.