So, do Shimano and Campagnolo really need to fear Red?

[saab2000]

It really seems to be the real deal. The 1-to-1 shift ratio, light weight, good ergonomics or so they say.

And all the controversial threads.

What's not to like? Is it worth thinking outside the Campagnolo box about this stuff?

Flux raced in the ToC, right? How 'bout a real world racing report.

[wrestlr]

Rode it for a while and was really impressed. Also race support will now be usable. I am currently rebuilding all of my bikes to either force or red :)
-Mike

[e-RICHIE]

tullio had croce d'aune.
stanley day has sram.
different eras call for different solutions atmo.

[Elefantino]

different eras call for different solutions atmo.
Remember the era(s) when there used to be many multiple choices?

[e-RICHIE]

Remember the era(s) when there used to be many multiple choices?
there still aremo. they are just gathered differently.

[shinomaster]

Bring back Suntour.

[Elefantino]

Bring back Mafac centerpulls.

[pdxmech13]

Shimano, No they will always have fishing surplus.

Campy, well I wouldn't count on higher wine sales.

[Bruce K]

The only geared bike that I haven't changed to Red or Force is my TT bike.

I can't see how SRAM would be any better than the Shimano bar end shifters and derailleurs for my purposes.

Also, buying used cyclocrossworld.com stuff at the end of their season (1 set of Red this year and 1 set of Force last year) helped keep the cost down.

BK

[Dave]

SRAM is bound to steal sales from both brands, but more from Shimano.

If you're used to Shimano, you'll probably like SRAM as well or better, but the shifters still have their limitations, including no triple crank shifting ability and they cost $550. Chrous shifters only cost $260 and Record about $310. Seems like a bargain in comparison.

I don't see the 1:1 ratio thing as any advantage. Each brand pulls some amount of cable and the RD responds by moving the correct amount. Just a different way to do the same thing.

[BdaGhisallo]

Shimano surely fears Sram, but not because of Red. They are worried that Sram will extend their road line downwards and really start competing in the meat of the oem market, the bikes $1K and down, and challenge their domination of that sector with R700, Tiagra and 105. Shimano values the high end, but the mid and lower ranges are their bread and butter. No doubt they fear on the road side what Sram has done on the mtb side.

Shimano have nothing to fear from Campy though. Too small and limited of a company to compete in the oem with them.

[johnnymossville]

on an old Cannondale Frame I have. I think it would be pretty sweet. As for Shimano, I think they are far ahead for the moment, but they should definitely fear SRAM in the long run.

SRAM is creating a bigger buzz at the moment, and momentum is building on their side. They don't have that ***el-like feel of high end shimano or campy yet, but that'll come.

[michael white]

I'm probably just another *** spouting *** out of my ***hole, but I don't see how a ***like feel makes any ***ing *** difference whatso***ingever. *** *** ****

[johnnymossville]

I'm probably just another *** spouting *** out of my ***hole, but I don't see how a ***like feel makes any ***ing *** difference whatso***ingever. *** *** ****

LOL, it just looks nice when looking down at it, that's all. Loved your ****ing post though. :p

[deluxerider]

i spent the last 5 years with D-A 7800 but made the switch to sram red shifters with force derailleurs and cranks for my new bike. i really like it a lot. however, i wouldn't say that it is any better than D-A. just different. sram has a much more tactile feedback. a CLACK instead of a shimano click. for me, from a performance standpoint, i wouldn't see the need to make the switch from d-a to red, but no reason not to either. it's all great stuff.

[dbrk]

If you are in for modern bits, then I think it's we who are in for it. Checking the price for Red this morning on a few mail order sites, Campag's prices won't be far behind. We all pay for what we like. And it's not like I'm trying to make any sense since I'm willing to spend on Rapha...but not Red. Go figure.

dbrk

[Tom]

If you are in for modern bits, then I think it's we who are in for it. ... dbrk

I'm afraid you're right. Can somebody explain to me why a stinking chain ring is over a hundred bucks? It's just a machined piece of cheap metal as far as I can tell. Anybody with access to a junkyard and who knows somebody that runs a CNC machine can get one for about ten cents and a couple of beers, it seems to me.

[WadePatton]

Competition is usually good for the end user.

What me shift? :bike:

[Blue Jays]

Tom, how has the performance and shift-quality been on the chainrings you've made? How did you bevel the edges on the teeth or did you just leave them essentially with a straight cut?

[Erik.Lazdins]

Right now for my taste the SRAM Red is too flashy - However what if next year they come out with an equal to Red that is a bit more elegant?
What if they add a top notch track group?


What then?

Shimano would be hacked off but they aren't going anywhere.

Campagnolo has the most to lose.

[Tom]

Tom, how has the performance and shift-quality been on the chainrings you've made? How did you bevel the edges on the teeth or did you just leave them essentially with a straight cut?

Well, you do have to show up with a new one to duplicate or you just make another worn one.

The point is that for the manufacturers a CNC machine, a bunch of aluminum plates and a half an hour is a stack of chain rings. Add fairy dust and a stupid three letter acronym like "HPS" for High Performance Shifting on some pieces of Scotch tape you stick on the thing and you can charge $125, too.

[Peter P.]

The only thing that would hold me back from trying SRAM is the limited ability to trim the front derailleur. I want some flexibility here, you know?

[Too Tall]

DRAT! Was hoping to go at least 10k views on that other thread...thanks alot SAAB ;) wink wink hehe.

Fear? Is that even on their radar? I think not. Bro, they are Italian and the amt. of market they have is not exactly what these cats wake up thinking about. Just sayin'.

[soulspinner]

Ive seen Chorus 4 $1134 shipped. To me thats the deal. The stuff lasts till you are bored with it (and I cant stand that Red crank). The stuff doesnt need to shift any better. Everbodys stuff works well. If I like it when I use it Ill buy a group ( with a Force crank). Wont get rid of the Campy group. At 17000 miles it absolutely works as well as day one.

[stevep]

no

[sspielman]

SRAM RED is the new product in a new product industry. Some portion of the buying public must have the new gadget, and right now Red is it. As cooler heads prevail, the consumers will weigh the advantages/disadvantages and we will see where things stack up. Personally, I am quite satisfied with Campagnolo and have never been given a reason to switch to Shimano (although Dura Ace is quite good, of course)...the same is true for SRAM. What intrigues me most about SRAM is the almost exclusively positive press that it gets DESPITE having problems/complaints with exploding rear derailleurs, snapping brake center bolts, poor shifting chains, and crankarms that mount up off of 180 deg.....in their first year! What was left? At least the markup margin for the LBS is good....

[TAW]

I think one would have to admit that SRAM has some innovative ideas in their shifters. The adjustability of the reach and the ease that you can shift in the drops is a big advantage. In my opinion, campy looks the best, and SRAM comes in last as far as looks, but I don't think there's much doubt that SRAM shifts better than either Shimano or Campy, much as I hate to admit it.

[fiamme red]

SRAM RED is the new product in a new product industry. Some portion of the buying public must have the new gadget, and right now Red is it. As cooler heads prevail, the consumers will weigh the advantages/disadvantages and we will see where things stack up. Personally, I am quite satisfied with Campagnolo and have never been given a reason to switch to Shimano (although Dura Ace is quite good, of course)...the same is true for SRAM. What intrigues me most about SRAM is the almost exclusively positive press that it gets DESPITE having problems/complaints with exploding rear derailleurs, snapping brake center bolts, poor shifting chains, and crankarms that mount up off of 180 deg.....in their first year! What was left? At least the markup margin for the LBS is good....This is the best thing that has been said on this forum about the introduction of SRAM Red:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=421889&postcount=2

[sspielman]

This is the best thing that has been said on this forum about the introduction of SRAM Red:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=421889&postcount=2


From that fool!? Certainly it proves that even a stopped clock is right twice a day....

[handsomerob]

Right now for my taste the SRAM Red is too flashy - However what if next year they come out with an equal to Red that is a bit more elegant?
What if they add a top notch track group?


What then?

Shimano would be hacked off but they aren't going anywhere.

Campagnolo has the most to lose.

The have a crankset labeled as Truvativ...

http://www.sram.com/en/truvativ/specialtycranksets/omnium/omnium.php

[flux]

It really seems to be the real deal. The 1-to-1 shift ratio, light weight, good ergonomics or so they say.

And all the controversial threads.

What's not to like? Is it worth thinking outside the Campagnolo box about this stuff?

Flux raced in the ToC, right? How 'bout a real world racing report.

What's there to say that hasn't been said already?

The hood ergonomics are better than Campy and Shimano.

The ceramic bearings make a real world difference when the watts matter.

The finish quality is raw and hip. The stickers are edgy and a nice change.

The shifting action is light. The trim feature is a nice bonus.

If you can afford $1700 for Dura Ace, you can afford $1900 for RED (http://www.sveltecycles.com/servlet/Detail?no=175). If you are a Record guy/gal and are looking for a change, it's a worthy alternative.

[Elefantino]

Word(s).

[michael white]

I'm very close to going for Sram. If Campy took a cue from Apple, and made itself viable wrt compatibility . . . and also if they stopped using all that stupid plastic, uh then I'd probably come back to my high school sweetheart.

Till then, not a chance.

[John H.]

Anyone else have problem shifting their SRAM red especially when out of the saddle?
I have a hard time with an upshift to an easier gear. Also, my middle finger knuckle catches under the shifter on the right side and occassionally causes a shift to a harder gear (a very bad thing when standing and going uphill).

[nm87710]

The ceramic bearings make a real world difference when the watts matter.


Any supporting data sources/studies?

Thx

[J.Greene]

Any supporting data sources/studies?

Thx

The salesman at our local Trek store says a bike with ceramic hubs will coast around the parking lot 1.5 times vs one time with satandard bearings.

:crap: wrong thread, should be in the one complaining about bike shop mis information.

JG

[fiamme red]

Any supporting data sources/studies?

Thxhttp://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/9306a25dadee264e

[palincss]

tullio had croce d'aune.
stanley day has sram.
different eras call for different solutions atmo.


Is e-Richie giving up on Campagnolo? Or, as Edward G. Robinson said, "Could this be the end of Rico?"

[palincss]

Bring back Mafac centerpulls.

Done! http://paulcomp.com/racer.html

[AmFlyer]

Maybe not fear, but possibly be ready to step it up somewhat.