I'm not happy

[Jack Brunk]

Richard Sachs going to Sram is not really happening. I thought that he would never sell out. I've lost faith in man kind. I guess I should be happy that Sram didn't have a Pista group when he built my track frame. How could this happen Richard? Your frames deserve Campy not a newcomer with what? Taiwan?

Tell me this is a bad joke on the forum please.

[Blue Jays]

Campagnolo stuff is nice.
SRAM stuff is nice.
Shimano stuff is nice.

[SoCalSteve]

Campagnolo stuff is nice.
SRAM stuff is nice.
Shimano stuff is nice.

Post of the decade, no...Post of the entire Forum from here til eternity!

Just sayin'

Steve

[handsomerob]

Richard Sachs going to Sram is not really happening. I thought that he would never sell out. I've lost faith in man kind. I guess I should be happy that Sram didn't have a Pista group when he built my track frame. How could this happen Richard? Your frames deserve Campy not a newcomer with what? Taiwan?

Tell me this is a bad joke on the forum please.

He is a cross guy, so forgive him, I think the fat levers have him and his gloved brigade snowed. Also, when you paint almost all your bikes the same scheme, you get the itch to change something. Hell, if Craig came out with a bamboo swivel shifter that was mud tested, it would probably make its debut on a Sachs in Indy next year. :D

[shinomaster]

Richard Sachs going to Sram is not really happening. I thought that he would never sell out. I've lost faith in man kind. I guess I should be happy that Sram didn't have a Pista group when he built my track frame. How could this happen Richard? Your frames deserve Campy not a newcomer with what? Taiwan?

Tell me this is a bad joke on the forum please.


I think the coach is on vacation (en vacance), or locked in a closet. What about all that crummy carbon fiber?

[Climb01742]

campy used to be second best. now it's third best. ouch.



:beer:

[RudAwkning]

Richard Sachs going to Sram is not really happening. I thought that he would never sell out. I've lost faith in man kind. I guess I should be happy that Sram didn't have a Pista group when he built my track frame. How could this happen Richard? Your frames deserve Campy not a newcomer with what? Taiwan?

Tell me this is a bad joke on the forum please.

He "made the leap". Let's see where he lands. :D

[Big Dan]

What's Campy?

[itspeedmoore]

I'm sure SRAM is nice, but that giant logo on the back of the crank arms has got to go. It looks horrible. The good thing is that SRAM will force Campy and Shimano to improve their products.

[djg]

Jack, if you've lost faith in humanity, you might want to take refuge in a hermitage.

Maybe a '99?

[Too Tall]

Richard Sachs going to Sram is not really happening. I thought that he would never sell out. I've lost faith in man kind. I guess I should be happy that Sram didn't have a Pista group when he built my track frame. How could this happen Richard? Your frames deserve Campy not a newcomer with what? Taiwan?

Tell me this is a bad joke on the forum please.
You are so huggable when you pout. ;)
Sell out??? Excuse me??? He sells out for a good sandwhich but not when it comes to bicycles yo.
Consider your passions than balance it against a master builders many yrs. of experience. For me, the builder and all that goes with is a package deal. They make em' I ride. HIGH probability you'll be happy. Whatchuthink buck?

Anywho, just for you let's all have a moment of silence. Better?

[Ti Designs]

Richard Sachs going to Sram is not really happening. I thought that he would never sell out. I've lost faith in man kind. I guess I should be happy that Sram didn't have a Pista group when he built my track frame. How could this happen Richard? Your frames deserve Campy not a newcomer with what? Taiwan?

Tell me this is a bad joke on the forum please.


Yup, this is a bad joke on the forum.









And for my latest stab at getting banned from the forum:

Serotta Pete drinks white wine, it's the glass that's red!

[David Kirk]

Time to wake up and smell the RED.

Dave

[Fixed]

trust him i would imho :beer:

[e-RICHIE]

Richard Sachs going to Sram is not really happening. I thought that he would never sell out. I've lost faith in man kind. I guess I should be happy that Sram didn't have a Pista group when he built my track frame. How could this happen Richard? Your frames deserve Campy not a newcomer with what? Taiwan?

Tell me this is a bad joke on the forum please.
i'm not selling out - i'm buying in atmo. in all seriousness,
i am not feeling the Cemotion i once felt, and felt all along.
their top stuff remains beautiful and there still seems to be
a faint connection to the firm's history. but atmo that's where
it starts and stops for me. too many decisions regarding product
have been market and sku driven. hey - that's fine for stuff
traded on the commodities exchange, but not here, and not
for me. i guess i kinda sorta miss the days when campagnolo
led - period. it's not a brifter issue, or an electronic issue,
and it's not a 'cross issue. it's just a feeling that the company
i invested in has (finally) lost its way. well that's just how i
feel. i was prolly their single most loyal customer, and in the
last decade as some of the line has changed to reflect 21st
century-ish stuff, my interest waned, and i chimed into them
about it every step along the way. there's only so much
howard beale-ing i can do before i can't even hear my own
inner voice. the next to next to the last straw was that they
were milquetoast on nahbs. the next to last straw was their
indifference to 28.6mm seat tube diameters. but the line in
the sand was when they fired storino. atmo, i have already
said more than i want to about it, but i will stand behind my
thoughtsmo. if things change back, so be it. it would be a
welcome change. choices are fine atmo.

ps as far as sram and red go - the company is coolmo atmo.
they make elegant looking stuff. the guys who run the office
are cool and enthusiastic. and they also know what 'cross
is and support it fully. that kinda stuff makes my radarmo.

[97CSI]

Time to wake up and smell the RED. DaveOh, no.....lemmings? :)

[paczki]

ps as far as sram and red go - the company is coolmo atmo.
they make elegant looking stuff. the guys who run the office
are cool and enthusiastic. and they also know what 'cross
is and support it fully. that kinda stuff makes my radarmo.

And it's RED :banana:

[PoppaWheelie]

I'm sure SRAM is nice, but that giant logo on the back of the crank arms has got to go. It looks horrible. The good thing is that SRAM will force Campy and Shimano to improve their products.

I could also certainly lose that huge graphic on the back-side of the cassette....

I bought a Powertap rear wheel from a forumite this year year, and needed a front. Bought a 3x pre-made with a Campy Record hub from Colorado Cyclist...it was relatively inexpensive, but I did decide to go Record on Peter White's recommendation. When I got the wheel I was shocked....the front hub looks and feels like a mid-level Shimano mountain bike hub. It may work fine, but gone are the lovely lines and silky-feeling finishes...it just feels plain 'ol cheap IMHO. I know I'm saying anything that hasn't been said before, but you could see this type of loyalty-switching from a mile away....

[William]

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

[brians647]

Wow. Great persepctive and well said Richie. I'm not savvy enough or experienced enough in this sport to agree or disagree based on experience, but since I buy into your philosophy and the Gestaltmo that you put into your bikes - your switch carries a lot of weight.

[manet]

i'm not selling out - i'm buying in atmo.... that kinda stuff makes my radarmo.

zankmo yo r u listenin ?

[witcombusa]

Richard Sachs going to Sram is not really happening. I thought that he would never sell out. I've lost faith in man kind. I guess I should be happy that Sram didn't have a Pista group when he built my track frame. How could this happen Richard? Your frames deserve Campy not a newcomer with what? Taiwan?

Tell me this is a bad joke on the forum please.

Sell out?

Buy what you like and let others do the same...

We all have our own priorities....maybe funtion, company attitude, racer support, innovation mean more to some than others?

It's your money, vote with your dollars!

[davids]

Campagnolo stuff is nice.
SRAM stuff is nice.
Shimano stuff is nice.Yeah. I've alway felt that parts is parts.

I chose Shimano over Campy in 2003 & 2006 because of the hood/shifter ergonomics, not because of any pseudo-religious feeling. And I chose Shimano over SRAM in 2007 because I'm wary of buying the first model year of any new product.

But the inside baseball stuff is interesting. And I like supporting the small, passionate guys. So I'll be giving SRAM a closer look.

[dbrk]

Yeah. I've alway felt that parts is parts.
..snip... So I'll be giving SRAM a closer look.


SRAM is the new Simplex. ;-)

dbrk

[jerk]

each and every component manufacturer makes fine stuff. campy gets the edge on cranks, sram on shifters and shimano on chains, cassettes and chainrings.

sram is the easiest and best company to deal with whether you are a distributor, retailer or consumer.

shimano is fine in this regard as well.

campagnolo sucks. they have no control over their distribution channel, no control over pricing or availability and untill it is possible for the average bike shop to buy a cassette from a distributor for less than the cassette can be purchased by the consumer on the interweb they will never own any of the market in the united states.

that being said- i have no opinion either way and would happily ride any of the top gruppos - but given the choice campy is still the best overall groupset.

jerk

[davids]

SRAM is the new Simplex. ;-)

dbrkThat doesn't bode well!

[justinf]

Wait till you guys see my upcoming C50 built with Red. :beer:

Kinda like my Sachs built with Dura Ace, but I have a generally subversive buddy that deserves the credit for that one.

[97CSI]

And I like supporting the small, passionate guys. So I'll be giving SRAM a closer look.Shimano is, by far, the largest (~$500MM in sales for '07). SRAM (>$200MM in '06) is second only to Shimano. Of the three, Campagnolo (!$100MM in '06) is the small guy. Campy also makes high-end automobile wheels and their tool-kit.

[14max]

*

[14max]

*

[e-RICHIE]

Richard - When will we (consumers? enthusiasts? enthusiastic consumers?) start seeing your bikes fitted with SRAM components?
at nahbs 2 weeks agomo.
ps go watch het volk - last 5 km atmo.

[14max]

*

[Grant McLean]

Richard - When will we (consumers? enthusiasts? enthusiastic consumers?) start seeing your bikes fitted with SRAM components?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertleary/2267555778/sizes/l/

-g

[Johny]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertleary/2267555778/sizes/l/

-g

The new carbon coach rules.

[14max]

*

[rwsaunders]

campagnolo sucks. they have no control over their distribution channel, no control over pricing or availability and untill it is possible for the average bike shop to buy a cassette from a distributor for less than the cassette can be purchased by the consumer on the interweb they will never own any of the market in the united states.

jerk

This post could get you Vipered on the basis of making a political statement. :cool:

[slowgoing]

Who cares? But a frameset from a framebuilder and put whatever group you want on it.

[GONE4ARIDE]

It must be a very sad day over at campyonly.com Their headline should read: "Our beloved Sachs defects; joins RED Army"

[97CSI]

It must be a very sad day over at campyonly.com Their headline should read: "Our beloved Sachs defects; joins RED Army"It's all about margins. A business. Just like any other.

[e-RICHIE]

It's all about margins. A business. Just like any other.
not for memo atmo. i need to feel a connection.

[Ken Robb]

I think the SRAM stuff looks cool but I need triples and I haven't seen any rom them.

[WadePatton]

not for memo atmo. i need to feel a connection.

schweetmo :cool:

[OtayBW]

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.
Yes - the Times They Are A-Changing, but even this 44-year old classic remains as vital as ever. Ironic, isn't it?

[CNY rider]

I think the SRAM stuff looks cool but I need triples and I haven't seen any rom them.


I checked with them last year.

A compact was planned but they had no plans for a triple.

Takes it off my shopping list too.

[Jack Brunk]

i'm not selling out - i'm buying in atmo. in all seriousness,
i am not feeling the Cemotion i once felt, and felt all along.
their top stuff remains beautiful and there still seems to be
a faint connection to the firm's history. but atmo that's where
it starts and stops for me. too many decisions regarding product
have been market and sku driven. hey - that's fine for stuff
traded on the commodities exchange, but not here, and not
for me. i guess i kinda sorta miss the days when campagnolo
led - period. it's not a brifter issue, or an electronic issue,
and it's not a 'cross issue. it's just a feeling that the company
i invested in has (finally) lost its way. well that's just how i
feel. i was prolly their single most loyal customer, and in the
last decade as some of the line has changed to reflect 21st
century-ish stuff, my interest waned, and i chimed into them
about it every step along the way. there's only so much
howard beale-ing i can do before i can't even hear my own
inner voice. the next to next to the last straw was that they
were milquetoast on nahbs. the next to last straw was their
indifference to 28.6mm seat tube diameters. but the line in
the sand was when they fired storino. atmo, i have already
said more than i want to about it, but i will stand behind my
thoughtsmo. if things change back, so be it. it would be a
welcome change. choices are fine atmo.

ps as far as sram and red go - the company is coolmo atmo.
they make elegant looking stuff. the guys who run the office
are cool and enthusiastic. and they also know what 'cross
is and support it fully. that kinda stuff makes my radarmo.

Fair enough.

[e-RICHIE]

Fair enough.
Jackpedia 3:18 atmo -

[Too Tall]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ced8o50G9kg

The answer is ala carte'.

[shinomaster]

Lets be honest atmo. You like Sram cause' it's red right?

[Waldo]

I'm a Campy guy. Just outfitted a bike with Rival. Been on two rides so far. Have found it finicky to set up. Shifts are faster than with 2-year old Record or Chorus. Hoods and brake levers feel better. Absolutely detest the lack of front derailleur trim. Seriously considering going back to Campy but will ride SRAM for another couple of weeks to give it a fair chance.

[norman neville]

not being wise, but...

how is the quality of the not-shifters components? in order to build their empire, the sram folks consumed other parts builders, and to me, the brakes and the crankset/bb look kinda' crude and junky, certainly not up the the standard of (alloy) record/chorus or dura-ace. also, the rear derailleurs had some staying-in-one-piece problems last year in addition to looking not-quite-done as well as like a shimano mountain-bike reject.

the shifters feel nice. they seem to work well from what time i've spent on them.

i think sram may have missed the opportunity to have a premium alloy group along side the top-tier black plastic force/red group. certainly some nice, graceful alloy cranks, shifters and sculpted derailleurs and brake calipers could have been marketed as a premium group, with the plasticy stuff as the premium super light, or premium black or something. i know rival is good, but campag made its mark on the quality of finish and whatnot in the high-end; sram could have made the same commitment, and given some folks the high-polish, high-end they crave.

for the price of red, shouldn't the group come with a set of king or white or dt hubs? why no hubs? will they go directly to pre-builts?

the fellers in the office may be coolmo, but i'd leapmo much quickermo if the stuffmo was made in the usamo or belgiumo or francemo or italymo or germanymo for the (very high) pricemo.

either that or redmo should cost the same as centaurmo.

[musgravecycles]

Snipped:
the fellers in the office may be coolmo, but i'd leapmo much quickermo if the stuffmo was made in the usamo or belgiumo or francemo or italymo or germanymo for the (very high) pricemo.

either that or redmo should cost the same as centaurmo.

I don't get the above, both Campy and Shimano come out of the Far-East as well...

[norman neville]

I don't get the above, both Campy and Shimano come out of the Far-East as well...

far east is for bargains.

shimano was built as a japanese industrial company. at its height, japan was the finest industrial producer in the world. shimano now has plants all over asia. their reputation was built on the japanese production; much like sony, it's not the same. still good, not the same.

campag comes from italy. record and chorus parts say made in italy on them. that counts for something. high quality, high wages, high price.

[musgravecycles]

Campy isn't made in Italy any more bro...

[Elefantino]

Campy isn't made in Italy any more bro...
And there is no Santa.

[paczki]

far east is for bargains.

shimano was built as a japanese industrial company. at its height, japan was the finest industrial producer in the world. shimano now has plants all over asia. their reputation was built on the japanese production; much like sony, it's not the same. still good, not the same.

campag comes from italy. record and chorus parts say made in italy on them. that counts for something. high quality, high wages, high price.

High wages don't always mean high quality although they do normally mean high price! Not saying they shouldn't, just they don't.

[norman neville]

Campy isn't made in Italy any more bro...

where they make bike parts. not all the campag-branded parts, but bike parts.

[norman neville]

High wages don't always mean high quality although they do normally mean high price! Not saying they shouldn't, just they don't.

than high price, questionable quality and low, low slave wages.

[musgravecycles]

Most of Campagnolo's bike stuff got outsourced to Asia a couple of years ago, not that there's anything wrong with that (I lived in Taiwan for 6 years)...

Sorry to be the one to break it to you...

[Big Dan]

Campy isn't made in Italy any more bro...


Heartbreaker.......

:rolleyes:

[Too Tall]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V04EPbaFSdA

[goonster]

Campy also makes high-end automobile wheels

They do? Still?

Are you sure?

[norman neville]

Most of Campagnolo's bike stuff got outsourced to Asia a couple of years ago, not that there's anything wrong with that (I lived in Taiwan for 6 years)...

Sorry to be the one to break it to you...

but look at the components and you can see pretty easily which ones are marked made in italy and which ones aren't. they're not hiding anything. everybody knows that campag uses taiwanese plastic and asian outsourcing, but their italian production continues.

sorry to be the one to explain that to you.

[musgravecycles]

Pretty sure the Campy rep told me at the show a couple of years ago that hitherto even Record was being produced in Asia...

Somebody help me out here. Grant...

[norman neville]

Pretty sure that the Campy rep told me at the show a couple of years ago that even Record was being produced in Asia...


Somebody help me out here... Grant...

the industry rep i talked to dec. (07) told me that the campag factory in italy (as well as the local subcontracting) was running at full capacity. this person had recently been a product manager spec'ing bikes and had visited europe and asia in the last year.

campag told him right up front that the italian components were marked made in italy and the non-italian ones weren't.

now, does that mean that raw carbon ultra-torque crank arms might be shipped in bulk from asia to vincenza to be made into campag cranks? mebbe.

does that mean that finished carbon ergo blades might be shipped in bulk to italy to be assembled into ergo levers? mebbe.

does that mean it is significant that your centaur chainrings say made in italy but your centaur crank arms don't? mebbe.

did campag lie to this bike spec'er? mebbe.

does campag want to take advantage of the high volume carbon fiber production available in taiwan? yep.

did campag build their reputation on the high-end? yep.

is campag the company all that it was? nope.

will that rep carry them for a while? probably.

but they're not a new-to-professional-quality-road-racing-compents company charging top-tier prices for 100% outsourced goods.

do we have conflicting information? perhaps.

does it really matter? no.

the sram stuff works ok. the shimano stuff works ok. the campag stuff works ok.

ok.

[sevencyclist]

A product should be judged by how it performs. By performance, it can be mechanical, visual/aesthetic, historical value, and perhaps to some, the country of origin production is their criteria of performance. Those clients can certainly vote with their dollars. Just like we can vote with our dollars to buy non-sweat shop clothe.

I like my Made in Taiwan Bottom Bracket Shell on my Richard Sachs just fine.

[musgravecycles]

does it really matter? no.

the sram stuff works ok. the shimano stuff works ok. the campag stuff works ok.

You got it bro.

My point all along has been that it doesn't matter where it comes from. I've seen junk out of Italy, and stellar stuff out of Asia...

:banana: :banana:

[girlie]

A product should be judged by how it performs. By performance, it can be mechanical, visual/aesthetic, historical value, and perhaps to some, the country of origin production is their criteria of performance. Those clients can certainly vote with their dollars. Just like we can vote with our dollars to buy non-sweat shop clothe.

I like my Made in Taiwan Bottom Bracket Shell on my Richard Sachs just fine.

:beer:

[e-RICHIE]

wow - i just did 2 hours in the snow on my 'cross
bicycle and this is now a political threadmo atmo.

[norman neville]

You got it bro.

My point all along has been that it doesn't matter where it comes from. I've seen junk out of Italy, and stellar stuff out of Asia...

:banana: :banana:

if you're gettin' it for pennies, i'd like a good deal when i buy it. if you're paying tons to make, i'll expect to pay big. i'm not keen on the air jordan commerce model.

[e-RICHIE]

atmo -


http://www.aintitcool.com/images/aicncomics/Shoot+the+Messenger.GIF

[norman neville]

wow - i just did 2 hours in the snow on my 'cross

bicycle and this is now a political threadmo atmo.

you had snow?

if you think this is political, you need to get out more.

let your boyz in the windy city know that they can feel free to work on the industrial design of their stuff. some of it doesn't look so hot in person: a little unfinished, you know. maybe it's me, but it lacks campag panache or the robochic of shimano when you're fondling it.

not that it matters.

[paczki]

if you're gettin' it for pennies, i'd like a good deal when i buy it. if you're paying tons to make, i'll expect to pay big. i'm not keen on the air jordan commerce model.

Is there any sign of the Air Jordan commerce model? This is a real question, not fight picking. Is SRAM made in Taiwan? That's not Myanmar. The fact that something is not made in the US and Europe doesn't mean children are being chained to looms:banana:

[e-RICHIE]

you had snow?
no - i made that upmo.
if you think this is political, you need to get out more.
there's a lot of things about me that you don't know anything about, norm. things you wouldn't understand. things you couldn't understand. things you shouldn't understand. you don't want to get mixed up with a guy like me. i'm a loner, norm. a rebel atmo.

let your boyz in the windy city know that they can feel free to work on the industrial design of their stuff. some of it doesn't look so hot in person: a little unfinished, you know. maybe it's me, but it lacks campag panache or the robochic of shimano when you're fondling it.
i'm going relentless on the starting monday morning atmo.

not that it matters.
atmo -

http://www.robertsenslerpresents.com/images/wpe63.jpg

[norman neville]

Is there any sign of the Air Jordan commerce model? This is a real question, not fight picking. Is SRAM made in Taiwan? That's not Myanmar. The fact that something is not made in the US and Europe doesn't mean children are being chained to looms:banana:

don't think your pickin'.

i'm sure some sram is made in taiwan. (many of) those taiwanese companies have production facilities in china proper, so i would not be surprised if some of the stuff was made on the mainland.

the point is, sram made the leap. they went and procured other manufacturers to build their high-end road group. they took advantage of (exploited) technological and financial benefits in asian production, yet they charge more than shimano for their product. i understand the need to build a brand and build prestige through high prices, as does sram, as does...never mind.

however, i would have been interested in seeing the benefit of lower-cost production coupled with world-beating performance at the retail level.

oh, well.

[norman neville]

no - i made that upmo.

there's a lot of things about me that you don't know anything about, norm. things you wouldn't understand. things you couldn't understand. things you shouldn't understand. you don't want to get mixed up with a guy like me. i'm a loner, norm. a rebel atmo.

i'm going relentless on the starting monday morning atmo.

atmo -

http://www.robertsenslerpresents.com/images/wpe63.jpg

a funny guy, sr. sachs.

[Avispa]

Peoples... Cut the R some slack, will ya? At least he went with a different group other than Shimano!!! :D

..A..

PS
Jack, I feel yer pain...

[Blue Jays]

My components from Campagnolo are marked "Made In Italy" on them. I'll have to go downstairs to see what the SRAM and Shimano parts on my mountainbike are stamped.

[R2D2]

not being wise, but...
...........
for the price of red, shouldn't the group come with a set of king or white or dt hubs? why no hubs? will they go directly to pre-builts?
.............
.

Didn't they just buy Zipp?

[97CSI]

I don't get the above, both Campy and Shimano come out of the Far-East as well...Only the cheap end of the Campy's line comes out of Asia. The '07 Centaur gear, carbon crankset, BB & RD all state, "Made in Italy".

My grad school research (late '70s) was on carbon fibers. Italy had a reasonable carbon fiber effort at that time, as did most European countries, especially France, the U.S. and Japan. I don't recall there being any work going on in Taiwan at the time.

Its all about margins. SRAM bought up some good gear makers, like Sachs (from Germany, not dear Richard from CT) and RockShox and moved them to Asia. SRAM is simply am importer of foreign goods. Just like Wal-Mart. And I don't shop at Wal-Mart.

[MilanoTom]

... some of it doesn't look so hot in person: a little unfinished, you know. maybe it's me, but it lacks campag panache or the robochic of shimano when you're fondling it.

not that it matters.

I don't think that any of it looks particularly good on nicely crafted steel frames. SRAM Red has what Car & Driver used to call "boy racer graphics" (especially on the crankset). Dura Ace has, as you called it, the "robochic" look (I'd use a somewhat less charitable description). Record looks like plastic and Krylon. I guess it's OK if you're bolting everything onto carbon fiber, but I think it all looks somewhat out of place on a Nuovo Prestige, Master Light, Luigino, Weigle, et al.

Tom

[e-RICHIE]

would anyone care if i leaped back and forthmo atmo?
ya know - one night asian fusian, the next night lasagna.
very kissinger if you ask me atmo.

[Frankwurst]

I don't care if it's made in BumF&*k Egypt as long as it works well and holds up well with minimum maintenance. :beer:

[DarrenCT]

would anyone care if i leaped back and forthmo atmo?
ya know - one night asian fusian, the next night lasagna.
very kissinger if you ask me atmo.

no we're talking

i think thats the best way to gomo

[EDS]

not being wise, but...

how is the quality of the not-shifters components? in order to build their empire, the sram folks consumed other parts builders, and to me, the brakes and the crankset/bb look kinda' crude and junky, certainly not up the the standard of (alloy) record/chorus or dura-ace. also, the rear derailleurs had some staying-in-one-piece problems last year in addition to looking not-quite-done as well as like a shimano mountain-bike reject.

the shifters feel nice. they seem to work well from what time i've spent on them.

i think sram may have missed the opportunity to have a premium alloy group along side the top-tier black plastic force/red group. certainly some nice, graceful alloy cranks, shifters and sculpted derailleurs and brake calipers could have been marketed as a premium group, with the plasticy stuff as the premium super light, or premium black or something. i know rival is good, but campag made its mark on the quality of finish and whatnot in the high-end; sram could have made the same commitment, and given some folks the high-polish, high-end they crave.

for the price of red, shouldn't the group come with a set of king or white or dt hubs? why no hubs? will they go directly to pre-builts?

the fellers in the office may be coolmo, but i'd leapmo much quickermo if the stuffmo was made in the usamo or belgiumo or francemo or italymo or germanymo for the (very high) pricemo.

either that or redmo should cost the same as centaurmo.

SRAM Rival is alloy and mechanically the same as Force. SRAM Rival cranks are quite shiny.

As for wheels, SRAM recently bought Zipp, so . . .

[Too Tall]

would anyone care if i leaped back and forthmo atmo?
ya know - one night asian fusian, the next night lasagna.
very kissinger if you ask me atmo.


I'd certainly expect the bikes and you to reflect best of the best not make a statement...derr.

And now for something completely different:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKI21fdR7jg&NR=1

[Jeff Weir]

would anyone care if i leaped back and forthmo atmo?
ya know - one night asian fusian, the next night lasagna.
very kissinger if you ask me atmo.


Wasn't Kissinger know to be quite the ladies man?

right up your alley e-r.

[Elefantino]

would anyone care if i leaped back and forthmo atmo?
ya know - one night asian fusian, the next night lasagna.
very kissinger if you ask me atmo.
Is kissinger "political"?

[e-RICHIE]

Is Kissinger "political"?
only when you employ upper casemo.

[shinomaster]

would anyone care if i leaped back and forthmo atmo?
ya know - one night asian fusian, the next night lasagna.
very kissinger if you ask me atmo.

Hey if you want to be a swinger this is the place.

[rbtmcardle]

well, since I am less than a year onto the e-Richie waitlist, I guess I wont pay any attention to this thread, perhaps by the time my frame is ready it will be Campagimanosram - kind of like the Beatrice commercials awhile back

[e-RICHIE]

well, since I am less than a year onto the e-Richie waitlist, I guess I wont pay any attention to this thread, perhaps by the time my frame is ready it will be Campagimanosram - kind of like the Beatrice commercials awhile back
heck by then i'll be using drive trains from Northeast Utilities atmo.

[Elefantino]

well, since I am less than a year onto the e-Richie waitlist, I guess I wont pay any attention to this thread, perhaps by the time my frame is ready it will be Campagimanosram - kind of like the Beatrice commercials awhile back
No. By the time your frame is ready, all components will be made by ...

http://www.google.com/intl/en_ALL/images/logo.gif

[ericspin]

Maybe if we all went fixed it wouldn't matter. Then we could focus on beautiful pieces like Nitto, Miche, Sugino, etc. I'm beginning to wonder why I spent all those $ on derailleurs anyway.

[e-RICHIE]

Maybe if we all went fixed it wouldn't matter.

no - basta!
we must think of the future of all mankindmo.
keep doing the nasty and having go-baby moments.

[davids]

would anyone care if i leaped back and forthmo atmo?I think the answer to this query is obvious.

[e-RICHIE]

I think the answer to this query is obvious.
you forgot the comma atmo.

[davids]

you forgot the comma atmo.,

[ergott]

Following any "faith" blindly is never a good idea. If I had the means to buy Red and determined it was better than what I have, then I'd jump too. I'd rather have what I determined to be the best than stick with something just because.

[e-RICHIE]

Following any "faith" blindly is never a good idea. If I had the means to buy Red and determined it was better than what I have, then I'd jump too. I'd rather have what I determined to be the best than stick with something just because.
i bought it and then made the leapmo, but
that was after seeing it in use first hand for
almost a year atmo.

[ti_boi]

:rolleyes:

[paulh]

Feel the love at www.sramonly.com
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
No, not yet, I guess.

The fans will have to model theirs after www.campyonly.com

[ergott]

i bought it and then made the leapmo, but
that was after seeing it in use first hand for
almost a year atmo.


Still, no money here to spare. :( :(

[Too Tall]

Still, no money here to spare. :( :(
Lil shaver, save a few drachmas and follow this advice "Your's ain't broke, don't fix it". xxoo TT.