I know this isn't a democracy...

[Louis]

...but nevertheless I vote for Viper to be let out of the penalty box.

a) Politics is now off limits.

b) By now he's probably learned his lesson.

c) Every now and then a bit of low-brow culture :D is amusing.

Louis

FWIW - He and I are on opposite sides of the aisle, politically, so this is certainly not the "Viper Amen Corner."

[bironi]

being held in silence. I missed the actual infraction. I assume that it occurred in Climb's thread entitled something like, "a question for conservatives".

[stevep]

we sent in the israeli commandoes from entebbe to rescue him...
unfortunately viper got in an argument with them about palestine......

they jumped back on the plane and left him there.

now his rescue is on e-richies waiting list.

we'll see viper soon i thk.

i miss viper some.

[97CSI]

Viper is where he belongs. Leave him there.

[Avispa]

i miss viper some.

I don't know if I miss him at all, but every forum needs its trolls, I mean its Vipers... :D :D

And Louis, be careful, you may get slapped too if you keep waving anti-moderator flags... :D

..A..

:D = joke, just in case...

[djg]

I have no idea what, in particular, precipitated the "ban" or probation or whatever it is -- certainly I didn't have a discussion with Pete or anybody else at Serotta about Viper. I just know what set me off and it had nothing to do with "politics" in the usual sense. I didn't care what Viper might or might not have thought a just solution to a certain conflict in the Middle East. I'm a fool to get into this, but what I found really shocking about the whole thing was the extent to which people seemed to miss the very specific nature of his bile. I'm out of this discussion. Maybe I should be out of the board for a while too.

[BUTCH RIDES]

Hello my friends I have a friend who had a dog it barked nite and day .One night it barked and woke up the owners . When they awoke the wound their house was on fire they got out because of a barking dog .
bye bye time for donuts

[AgilisMerlin]

a new slogan

LET VIPER TYPE

[Big Dan]

The forum is now a better place.

[JohnS]

Do all of you dislike Viper so much because of the forcefulness of what he said or because he held an opposing viewpoint?

[e-RICHIE]

Do all of you dislike Viper so much because of the forcefulness of what he said or because he held an opposing viewpoint?
i like him because he's a little shaver atmo.

[97CSI]

Do all of you dislike Viper so much because of the forcefulness of what he said or because he held an opposing viewpoint?As djg stated so well above, it is not necessarily what he states, but how he states it. That, and the fact that he (assuming it is a he) attempts to politicize most every topic.

[JohnS]

If I remember correctly, he stated that he agreed with Jimmy Carter.
During the same discussion, others took just as prejudiced, but opposing viewpoint, and nothing was done to them.

[Richard]

I infrequently post, but I can see that this thread will turn out "worse" than the political ones, because instead of beginning with "ideas" that degenerate into "frat boy, Dennis Miller style faux comedy personal assault nastiness," (this was Viper's specialty) this one is going to start there. I do agree with John S that there seemed to be a lot more than one involved party, but perhaps there is some underlying reason only Viper took the hit.

[97CSI]

i like him because he's a little shaver atmo.Yes. And I understand that he is not very tall, as well.

[sjbraun]

attitude, (politics,) and his overwhelming need to argue, any of us who engaged him more than once just encouraged his boorish behavior.
We might have all been better off had we just ignored the little snake.

[JohnS]

Does anyone else find it ironic that after years of Dem vs Rep, Bush sucks, Clinton sucks, us in Iraq, etc, etc, the thread that locks out political discussion doesn't even involve us as Americans? :confused:

[J.Greene]

I thought Viper was harmless.

We all humor ourselves in different ways, and his way was obviously too caustic to too many.

I'd free him myself.

JG

[Too Tall]

I miss watching his manic fits on screen ;) Can def. do without personal vitrol.

I attended a McGovern type liberal arts school that forced diversity and actively defended peoples right to have their say. What this creates is an broad(er) exposure to audiences who's opinions become more clearly defined...less fence sitters more engagement...it's a good thing.

As for the ban, there but for the grace of Serotta goes myself.

That's all I got.

[handsomerob]

Yes. And I understand that he is not very tall, as well.

I am 5'10.5" and he is taller than me. He's been involved in athletics since he could walk and it is obvious from looking at him. Our boy Viper is no slouch.

Also, he has very strong beliefs regarding politics and other things. He is extremely well read and one of the smartest people I have ever met. He also has a predisposition to rattle some cages in support of his opinions. I personally would rather have a conversation with someone of opposing views than a lemming that doesn't have anything noteworthy to say about a subject.

This said... I don't always agree with him with regard to his opinions or the expression of them, but as a pretty firm believer in what the framer's of the Constitution did for us... I support his right to free speech. Now that Serotta Pete has clarified a little better what is acceptable behavior and subject matter in these forums, I am confident that his participation in the forum would be within the guidelines when allowed to return to posting. That is... as long as Star Wars and Miami Vice are acceptable subject matter. If not, then I can't make any promises.

[MilanoTom]

I rarely agreed with Viper's positions. He seemed to enjoy purposely baiting others with veiled insults (tossing around words like "lefties") and when others would reply in kind, he'd accuse them of throwing personal insults instead of addressing the issues. I have to grudgingly admit, however, that he was pretty darned good at the technique.

On the other hand, I think he sort of got a raw deal. There was plenty of vitriol to go around at times, and he ended up with the short end of the stick. I suspect that part of it had to do with the positions he took on certain sensitive issues, and I find that unfortunate.

All the above notwithstanding, I have no ownership interest in the forum. If those who sponsor it want to maintain a certain decorum level, want to limit the areas that can be disscussed, or even the postions that can be taken, it's their call. We can each weigh the benefits and decide whether it is worth it to follow the rules (which, as an aside, may at times be a bit too nebulous for my taste) in order to participate. If we prefer different, each of us has the option to start his or her own forum, at which point we can each set our own rules.

I personally appreciate that Serotta sponsors this forum. Even though I am a relative newcomer, I was treated no differently than the (for lack of a better word) old timers, and I enjoy the opportunity to share ideas and thoughts with the other forumites. If my own continued participation means that I have to be a little more subdued than usual regarding some non-cycling issues, I'm willing to make that concession. In fact, it's a no brainer to me.

Regards.
Tom

[Big Dan]

I'm going to post the PM he sent me and you'll see what kind of a person he really is.


:butt:

[J.Greene]

I am confident that his participation in the forum would be within the guidelines when allowed to return to posting. That is... as long as Star Wars and Miami Vice are acceptable subject matter. If not, then I can't make any promises.

Would he come back? If I were him I would not. Viper was not the only one who got rough, but he was made the example. Of the people I'd label an offender, Viper is the only one witty enough to hold my attention.

JG

[JohnS]

Would he come back? If I were him I would not. Viper was not the only one who got rough, but he was made the example. Of the people I'd label an offender, Viper is the only one witty enough to hold my attention.

JG
Yeah, I got called a "douchebag". Isn't the internet a wonderful thing? You can say stuff to people that you wouldn't dare say in person... :argue:

[handsomerob]

If I remember correctly, he stated that he agreed with Jimmy Carter.
During the same discussion, others took just as prejudiced, but opposing viewpoint, and nothing was done to them.

Just off the cuff... he has agreed with Carter, Reagan, and now supports Obama. That doesn't sound like someone that is following some specific party/group prejudices as much as what taking inventory of issues he believes in. I enjoy objective debate and thankfully, I have yet to meet anyone that agreed with me on all the issues I find important. I think it is a Ying/Yang thing.

[J.Greene]

Yeah, I got called a "douchebag". Isn't the internet a wonderful thing? You can say stuff to people that you wouldn't dare say in person... :argue:

Yes it really is amazing :)

I got a pm from him once that was sincere about a personal issue.

I have no doubt he was warned, Pete is a good guy and acts with reason. I'm sure Viper brought it on himself. He was not all bad though.

JG

[JohnS]

Yes it really is amazing :)

I got a pm from him once that was sincere about a personal issue.

I have no doubt he was warned, Pete is a good guy and acts with reason. I'm sure Viper brought it on himself. He was not all bad though.

JGIt wasn't Viper that called me that. It was another member without the wit or intellect of Viper.

[Pete Serotta]

From the quote below I need to ask "and this is fun, constructive, or polite - WHY?"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"You rarely agreed with Viper's positions. He seemed to enjoy purposely baiting others with veiled insults (tossing around words like "lefties") and when others would reply in kind, he'd accuse them of throwing personal insults instead of addressing the issues."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I (Pete) have an opinion of one but - "this type of behavior is of value WHY?"

Yes, VIPER was not the only one but he should could be in the race as the most consistant. Was he made an example - no. He just happened to be the most consistant and at the wrong time.

For the time being he stays off the forum.....If at a later time the ID is re-activated and he comes back/or doesn't come back - will be up to him.

Will he have company at a later time - I hope not.

[handsomerob]

From the quote below I need to ask "and this is fun, constructive, or polite - WHY?"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"You rarely agreed with Viper's positions. He seemed to enjoy purposely baiting others with veiled insults (tossing around words like "lefties") and when others would reply in kind, he'd accuse them of throwing personal insults instead of addressing the issues."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


I don't mean any disrespect to those on the left wing of politics so to speak, but is "Lefty" a derogatory term if you believe in those issues? I generally view left wing politics in the direction of socialism in that it wants to lift those that can't lift themselves. I don't see that viewpoint as inherently bad, in fact I find it admirable. I would consider myself a bit "to the right" of this opinion in application, but I don't think a "lefty" is doing anything other than trying a different way to produce the same result.

I view the term "lefty" similar to "tree-hugger". If I were an active "tree-hugger", I would take pride in that I was prioritizing the conservation of our trees and forests.

I am a "Pro-lifer", but if you wanted to call me an "anti-chooser" it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics

[rphetteplace]

If I was Viper and I was inclined that I wanted to come back, I'd pm Pete and apologize for getting too aggro and tell him I'd learned my lesson.

I only ever saw him post things about Star Wars, as all this political stuff is just blah blah blah to me.

[AgilisMerlin]

I am left' handed :banana:

[goonster]

is "Lefty" a derogatory term if you believe in those issues?

Probably not, but his use is emblematic of his apparent need to politicize everything.

Anyway, politics are one thing, but I can't take the effing Star Wars dolls, Miami Vice stuff, nonsensical polls and endless Youtube links anymore. Since he's been gone it's like the volume has been turned down to a tolerable level. That's a good thing, and has nothing to do with whoever "Viper" is as a person.

[jerk]

Yeah, I got called a "douchebag". Isn't the internet a wonderful thing? You can say stuff to people that you wouldn't dare say in person... :argue:


john-
i love you buddy. i'll call you a douchebag to your face. its a term of endearment in this part of the world.

jerk

[Tobias]

Also, he has very strong beliefs regarding politics and other things. He is extremely well read and one of the smartest people I have ever met. He also has a predisposition to rattle some cages in support of his opinions.Sounds like you guys are very close. It's good you know that side of him.

[saab2000]

I only minded him when he wasn't telling my version of the truth.

[MilanoTom]

Probably not, but his use is emblematic of his apparent need to politicize everything.

Anyway, politics are one thing, but I can't take the effing Star Wars dolls, Miami Vice stuff, nonsensical polls and endless Youtube links anymore. Since he's been gone it's like the volume has been turned down to a tolerable level. That's a good thing, and has nothing to do with whoever "Viper" is as a person.

At least he didn't put dancing bananas in his posts, though.

Tom

[TMB]

Just off the cuff... he has agreed with Carter, Reagan, and now supports Obama. That doesn't sound like someone that is following some specific party/group prejudices as much as what taking inventory of issues he believes in. I enjoy objective debate and thankfully, I have yet to meet anyone that agreed with me on all the issues I find important. I think it is a Ying/Yang thing.

Is Viper who I think??

[Big Dan]

Is Viper who I think??


Rob=Viper

makes sense.

[Ahneida Ride]

Actually, It's "supposed" to be a Constitutional Republic.

[davids]

I'll admit that he pushed my buttons in a major way.

I first noticed him when, as a newbie, he started trying to get e-RICHIE's attention in some rather embarrassingly sycophantic way. I even (jokingly) suggested he might be a stalker.

I engaged with him over the "war on Christmas" issue, and found that he wasn't interested in much give & take. When he disagreed with me, he never responded to more than one of my points at a time, ignoring a lot of what I'd written and thus oversimplifying or mis-characterizing my arguments. He finally ended up accusing me of being a bad debater rather than engaging me on the issues. At the same time, he made a few borderline antisemitic comments. We exchanged a few PMs and he seemed to cool down a bit. For a while.

He got looser and looser as time went on. A lot of what he did seemed designed to draw attention to himself, either by being goofy (Star Wars, Miami Vice, bacon...) or provocative (the political stuff). His posts became, for me, noise and static at best and obnoxious and narcissistic at worst.

At some point last month, I put him on "ignore". He's only the second person for whom I'd done that. It helped calm me down a lot. But I still managed to see (when someone else quoted him) his post suggesting that a J3w in the White House could be suspected of being more loyal to Israel that the USA. That's some nasty sheit.

He was the too-loud attention hog at the party, atmo.

And what kind of handle is "Viper" anyway? :rolleyes: ...sorry, that was a cheap shot.

[paczki]

At least he didn't put dancing bananas in his posts, though.

Tom

Watch it :banana:

[MilanoTom]

Watch it :banana:

Yeah, I figured it wouldn't take very long.

Tom

[paczki]

Yeah, I figured it wouldn't take very long.

Tom

Glad to know you really love the bananas :banana:

[manet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRCPfhbN5fE

[shinomaster]

From the quote below I need to ask "and this is fun, constructive, or polite - WHY?"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"You rarely agreed with Viper's positions. He seemed to enjoy purposely baiting others with veiled insults (tossing around words like "lefties") and when others would reply in kind, he'd accuse them of throwing personal insults instead of addressing the issues."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I (Pete) have an opinion of one but - "this type of behavior is of value WHY?"

Yes, VIPER was not the only one but he should could be in the race as the most consistant. Was he made an example - no. He just happened to be the most consistant and at the wrong time.

For the time being he stays off the forum.....If at a later time the ID is re-activated and he comes back/or doesn't come back - will be up to him.

Will he have company at a later time - I hope not.


Free Viper!

[Len J]

Is Viper who I think??

Yes......you knew him on RBR.

len

[J.Greene]

Yes......you knew him on RBR.

len

Was he asked to leave there too?

JG

[TMB]

Yes......you knew him on RBR.

len

Thought it all had that familiar feel ................

Took him a lot less time to get banned here.

[sjbraun]

LOL.
I'm enjoying the banned Viper more than I ever liked the real one. He's definitely more fun to talk about than he is to talk to.

Enough of this, I gotta go for a ride.

[TMB]

Was he asked to leave there too?

JG

I think it was more told to leave .

[Sasha18]

And what kind of handle is "Viper" anyway? :rolleyes: ...sorry, that was a cheap shot.

Viper = Tom Skerrit's call sign in Top Gun?

[BumbleBeeDave]

Viper = Tom Skerrit's call sign in Top Gun?

. . . what they called their little space fighter jets in "Battlestar Galactica" . . .at least in the old one with Lorne Greene. don't know about the new one--I have better things to do . . .

BBD

[handsomerob]

Rob=Viper

makes sense.

I can assure you that I am not Viper. First, I am in Memphis and he is in New York. There are also plenty of people that know me from this and another forum.

Also, I am not well read enough to keep up with all these current political debates and important people in history and who did who wrong. If it weren't for Wikipedia, I would have no idea what people were talking about half the time.

BTW... you need to understand that making an assumption like you have is akin to labeling me as an underhanded fraud and liar. Viper's and my writing styles are worlds apart and I am not remotely as politically charged as he is... so making that leap also shows a bit of naivete.

IIRC, the beef between you and he started when you labeled one of his posts as idiotic. As the person that "fired first", I hope you don't consider your role as a passive one. You appear to be "firing first" at me as well.

edited to add... I am a very easy going person and I let a lot of things roll off my back, but I take offense when someone questions my integrity. I would appreciate it very much if you would pay me the same respect I have paid everyone on this forum. I would also invite you to search my posts for any inflammatory behavior I have exhibited towards another poster. (until this post anyway)

[Big Dan]

It makes even more sense now.
Thanks Viper....

Originally Posted by Viper
Dan,

Now you're starting a fight with Handsomerob?

Look, you logged into a 'Compact Crankset' thread calling me an "Idiot". What's funny is YOU are the one who threw the first stone. I then sent you a PM to which you told me to "**** off".

Now? Now you tell the Forum that I sent you a nasty PM and you're going to post it? Dude, catch your breath and realize what a hypocrit you've been! Why not admit how wrong you were? Why not admit you responded to my PM with curse words? Why threaten to post my PM to make yourself look good?

You're outta control dude. And fyi, ya know what's funny? A dude from FLORIDA writing in about compact cranks; who in FLORIDA would ever need a compact crank? What's the biggest mountain ya got down there...Epcot Center?

LOL and tame it down on Handsomerob.

Regards,
Viper

The guy shouldn't be allowed to access PM's .
He is still sending messages like before.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . the snow storm is over here. The sun has come out. The temps are above 25 . . . let's go for a ride! Hey, whaddya say? . . . :D :p :rolleyes:

BBD

[BURCH]

Nothin to see here folks....just keep on movin'

[handsomerob]

. . . the snow storm is over here. The sun has come out. The temps are above 25 . . . let's go for a ride! Hey, whaddya say? . . . :D :p :rolleyes:

BBD

I am up for it... if I don't up my mileage before 3S3M on May 3rd, the rolling SAG will have to scoop me up.

[J.Greene]

He kinda has a point. Just say'n

JG

A dude from FLORIDA writing in about compact cranks; who in FLORIDA would ever need a compact crank? What's the biggest mountain ya got down there...Epcot Center?


Regards,
Viper[/I]

The guy shouldn't be allowed to access PM's .
He is still sending messages like before.

[davids]

Sort of creepy...

[handsomerob]

Sort of creepy...

If you had a thread started about you at a time where you could not participate in the thread, are you telling me that you wouldn't log in to see what is being written?

I am not sure how that is creepy... :confused:

[Big Dan]

He kinda has a point. Just say'n

JG

This is what he was saying about compacts...

Listen to this man atmo. And Orin hooked you up with a cool deal.

Campy = Campy
ATMO = mia in Portland
Roy Scheider = I was in tears last night
Shimano = covered in deadly lead paint
Blue Thunder = Overlooked movie, two stars, 2.5 if you liked Roy
Shimano = Red Bull
Campy = Red wine
Compact Crank with a 13/29 cassette =
Jacqueline Bisset in 'The Deep' = better than a compact crank with a 13/29
Handsomerob = one of the great guys out there
ATMO = we miss you
Star Wars Episode VII - Do you think it will take place someday?
DarrenCT = the ATMO of Beer
Frogpirate = very interesting log-in name, do tell it's origins thank you
Frogpirate = then post pics of your bike
Alloy parts = old fashioned never goes out of style
Peter Gabriel = Rides Steel ATMO at 1:10:

enjoy JG.

[keno]

I need a scorecard in order to follow the players.

keno

[handsomerob]

I need a scorecard in order to follow the players.

keno

not really necessary to keep score... we're all losing. :fight:

[Kevan]

and making good time too!

[keno]

not to keep score, just to follow the players.

Incidentally, an anagram of viper is prive. He has assumed that.

keno

[Len J]

It makes even more sense now.
Thanks Viper....



without hesitation......Handsomerob is definatly not Viper.

& to those that would take shots at someone who can't post.........well, that is just not right IMO.

I trust Pete.

Let's just move on.

Len

[handsomerob]

not to keep score, just to follow the players.

Incidentally, an anagram of viper is prive. He has assumed that.

keno

well, I consulted my friend Wiki and came up no dice. What is prive?

[BUTCH RIDES]

Hello


Secret; concealed.
bye bye

[BumbleBeeDave]

I trust Pete.

Let's just move on.

Len

. . . is a genius.

+100

BBD

[Ginger]

If you had a thread started about you at a time where you could not participate in the thread, are you telling me that you wouldn't log in to see what is being written?

I am not sure how that is creepy... :confused:



Nope. Nobody said he was banned from reading the forum. Just posting as far as I can tell.

Would that change anyone's posts here?


I'm sure Pete acted upon more than just the visible and the obvious. It's a tough job with some less than popular decisions to be made. I don't envy him.
Thanks for the hard work Pete!

[paczki]

Dudes and Dudette,

Why are you dwelling on this when you could mosey over to the Rapha thread and make fun of $250 gloves and leg shaving kits? I mean, where are your priorities? :banana:

[stevep]

Dudes and Dudette,

Why are you dwelling on this when you could mosey over to the Rapha thread and make fun of $250 gloves and leg shaving kits? I mean, where are your priorities? :banana:

paczki,
is that for both gloves?

[paczki]

$250 for two, $450 for one -- more stylish.

[William]

http://www.morganbrittany.net/images/100_0195.jpg

[keno]

private life

keno

[BumbleBeeDave]

$250 for two, $450 for one -- more stylish.

. . . YEAH! :banana: :banana: :banana:

[ti_boi]

:rolleyes:

[capybaras]

Glad to know you really love the bananas :banana:

+1M :banana: s

[capybaras]

Sort of creepy...

He's probably just lonely and misses his Serotta friends and foes. Who could blame him? You are all super! :banana:

[J.Greene]

This is what he was saying about compacts...

enjoy JG.

I did, thanks :banana:

JG

[jmp]

http://www.letviperpost.com (http://www.starwars.com)

[97CSI]

Who's Trek...........?

[csm]

I feel like I missed something here.... I should go back and read all of Viper's posts.
btw, tom skerrit wasn't viper; it was the other teacher. no wait, that was jester. never mind.

[JohnS]

john-
i love you buddy. i'll call you a douchebag to your face. its a term of endearment in this part of the world.

jerkIt's MISTER Douchebag to you! :p

[97CSI]

I feel like I missed something here.... I should go back and read all of Viper's posts.Believe me, you didn't miss a thing. Viper was short for Vituperation, unfortunately.

[JohnS]

Believe me, you didn't miss a thing. Viper was short for Vituperation, unfortunately.Actually, csm, Viper would have fit in well with you and I back in the days of the old forum. He has a knack for p*ssing people off that even I sometimes envy, although I don't always agree with him...

[e-RICHIE]

Actually, csm, Viper would have fit in well with you and I back in the days of the old forum. He has a knack for p*ssing people off that even I sometimes envy, although I don't always agree with him...
to surpass the master is to repay the debt atmo.

[ti_boi]

FYI....an
easy reference guide to the Doosh. :banana:

[csm]

from what I've read lately and over the years, there are a lot of people that should have been tossed.
there can be a vibe of intolerance that leans towards the liberal end of the spectrum. there is a certain amount of political correctness that takes over. not sure banning someone is the answer just because he annoys someone.
but hey, nevermind riding, let's go skiing. it is still winter. I am off to VT in less than 2 wks. yeeeha.

[JohnS]

FYI....an
easy reference guide to the Doosh. :banana:You just don't give up, do you? In case you haven't figured it out, much of this thread has been about people wondering why others weren't banned. You're at the top of the list. It sure is easy calling people names over the internet, so now I'll do it. You're not ti_boi, you're ti_punk. I grew up in Detroit (not the suburbs), so you should know how I mean that.

I guess I'm banned now, too.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Actually, csm, Viper would have fit in well with you and I back in the days of the old forum. He has a knack for p*ssing people off that even I sometimes envy, although I don't always agree with him...

Don't say stuff like that! You're p*ssing me off!

(Just wanted to let you know you haven't lost your touch. ;) )

BBD

[ti_boi]

:rolleyes:

[BBB]

to surpass the master is to repay the debt atmo.

Seeing this thread seems to revolve around Viper, it might have been appropriate to quote Darth Vader in Star Wars: "When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master" or something like that.

[e-RICHIE]

Seeing this thread seems to revolve around Viper, it might have been appropriate to quote Darth Vader in Star Wars: "When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master" or something like that.
that's too karaoke atmo. i'd rather quote thismo (http://www.amazon.com/National-Geographics-Living-Treasures-Japan/dp/6304475276).

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/416DX8YNMBL._SS500_.jpg

[Louis]

that's too karaoke atmo. i'd rather quote thismo (http://www.amazon.com/National-Geographics-Living-Treasures-Japan/dp/6304475276).

Interesting Sachs-San. I'm about 2/3 of the way through Memoirs of a Geisha.

[73Camaro_Dude]

Perhaps one needs to walk a mile in ones shoes before they start pretending to know who or what someone is.

You see...Viper is a bit of a tortured soul. What he sees or reads, he remembers. Everything. Ask him. Ask him lyrics, books, movies, literature, television.... he remembers it all. Its the weirdest thing. It has been that way forever. It all started with Star Wars. Seriously, for once he found something outside of superfriends that actually made sense. Holy crap, you may not be able to fly... or punch your sister in the fist and turn into a yeti...no... you actually can work with the world around you and make yourself fly. He freaking memorized that movie. He lived that movie. And when his parents banished him (after trying to get them to reenact the move for the 27th time in two days) to the basement filled with creatures and books, he was that movie. You see, Viper was not a religious boy. Thus, he did not really understand the Force and then knew he could not be a Jedi. But thats not to say he did not believe the force could not exist. While he couldn't use the force, he could work alongside of it. So, he chose Han Solo as his idol.

You know, the smart talker with the attitude... the character with a checkered past, but with morals. So Han he became...

I told you Viper remembers everything he reads or sees. Why, I know not... and I have met few with his penchant and desire for knowledge. While this blessed gift has brought him great intellect and knowledge, it is also a curse. You see, the force.... allows one to choose, and he chose his path, the one of what he sees as the good side (hence Righty, etc). You never ever would see Han Solo working for the Empire, or reading Sith propaganda... (although he did dress up like a stormtrooper once... but I digress). And before you get bent out of shape, Im not saying Democrats are equal to Siths...although Hillary is damn close. (just kidding)

So, he reads and learns to support his side, his position and his way, and believes, almost to a fault that he is right, and good. So, when he goes into a battle, he brings all kind of documentation, manuals, and theory. So, if you WANT and CHOOSE to argue with him... fine, just bring your A game... and back it up with facts and proof, not simply because its what you believe. Because, I will guarantee you that if he picks a side, he knows exactly why, what, how and when he came to that belief, and give historical references. Its something that most of us don't have. So don't get pissy if you can't convince him otherwise. And yes... sometimes if a conversation isnt going his way... or someone goes a bit out of line, he might lash out... much like Han shot Greedo... but hell he was provoked.

But dont get me wrong, he can be persuaded. A well presented and factual arguement goes a long way.

He is a brilliant yet daring tactician. He drags the bad guys out into the asteroid field, and lets them crash.... or fakes the jump to lightspeed and hides right under the enemy's nose and hides in the trash. While it really pisses the other side off, you got to admit that sometimes the guy is quite charming.

And damn, doesn't he get under your skin sometimes if you are on the other side.... whatever conversation that might be. But, honestly... if you are letting this stuff get to you or "hate him" due to his position or another, you are as stubborn as he is. Perhaps you just dont call him a name... you just pile on when his back is turned.

If you draw a line, he will step as close to that line and then argue about the definition of a line. But like you ... lefty or righty, jedi or sith, campy or shimano, pro or anti.... he has a side. He just seems to be a pinch more passionate about every single one of his beliefs.

You see, some of us dont care one way or another about some things and are okay with gray. He is not. He is black and white... just like his white shirt and black vest indicate.

He is a good person, as HR says. He also has got your back if you need it.

So, there you have Viper... metaphorically.

Its just how he is. So, I would say to the mighty Jabba, free Han from the carbonite. Give him the conditions of his release, and the repurcussions for crossing the line... if he crosses it.... he lives with it. This past little snafu seemed to lack in specificity.

However, if you can't deal with a wildcard .... then don't. Just make sure you are fair and consistent. But honestly, would Star Wars have been the same without him?

Just my thought.

Discuss.

[Louis]

So exactly how many personalities here are Viper?

[paczki]

So exactly how many personalities here are Viper?

I don't know, are you Viper? It's like the end of Being John Malkovich. Freaky :banana:

[dirtdigger88]

We are all Viper

http://www.video-downloadnow.com/imagesmusic/kiss2-big.jpg

Jason

[Louis]

I don't know, are you Viper?

Even if I were, would I know it?

[73Camaro_Dude]

So exactly how many personalities here are Viper?

dude... there are no links, photographs or references to miami vice or olivia newton john....

Im not viper, Im not HR

I just understand viper and am trying to explain it in a way that even flava flav can understand.

You feel me dog?

[Sandy]

Perhaps one needs to walk a mile in ones shoes before they start pretending to know who or what someone is.

You see...Viper is a bit of a tortured soul. What he sees or reads, he remembers. Everything. Ask him. Ask him lyrics, books, movies, literature, television.... he remembers it all. Its the weirdest thing. It has been that way forever. It all started with Star Wars. Seriously, for once he found something outside of superfriends that actually made sense. Holy crap, you may not be able to fly... or punch your sister in the fist and turn into a yeti...no... you actually can work with the world around you and make yourself fly. He freaking memorized that movie. He lived that movie. And when his parents banished him (after trying to get them to reenact the move for the 27th time in two days) to the basement filled with creatures and books, he was that movie. You see, Viper was not a religious boy. Thus, he did not really understand the Force and then knew he could not be a Jedi. But thats not to say he did not believe the force could not exist. While he couldn't use the force, he could work alongside of it. So, he chose Han Solo as his idol.

You know, the smart talker with the attitude... the character with a checkered past, but with morals. So Han he became...

I told you Viper remembers everything he reads or sees. Why, I know not... and I have met few with his penchant and desire for knowledge. While this blessed gift has brought him great intellect and knowledge, it is also a curse. You see, the force.... allows one to choose, and he chose his path, the one of what he sees as the good side (hence Righty, etc). You never ever would see Han Solo working for the Empire, or reading Sith propaganda... (although he did dress up like a stormtrooper once... but I digress). And before you get bent out of shape, Im not saying Democrats are equal to Siths...although Hillary is damn close. (just kidding)

So, he reads and learns to support his side, his position and his way, and believes, almost to a fault that he is right, and good. So, when he goes into a battle, he brings all kind of documentation, manuals, and theory. So, if you WANT and CHOOSE to argue with him... fine, just bring your A game... and back it up with facts and proof, not simply because its what you believe. Because, I will guarantee you that if he picks a side, he knows exactly why, what, how and when he came to that belief, and give historical references. Its something that most of us don't have. So don't get pissy if you can't convince him otherwise. And yes... sometimes if a conversation isnt going his way... or someone goes a bit out of line, he might lash out... much like Han shot Greedo... but hell he was provoked.

But dont get me wrong, he can be persuaded. A well presented and factual arguement goes a long way.

He is a brilliant yet daring tactician. He drags the bad guys out into the asteroid field, and lets them crash.... or fakes the jump to lightspeed and hides right under the enemy's nose and hides in the trash. While it really pisses the other side off, you got to admit that sometimes the guy is quite charming.

And damn, doesn't he get under your skin sometimes if you are on the other side.... whatever conversation that might be. But, honestly... if you are letting this stuff get to you or "hate him" due to his position or another, you are as stubborn as he is. Perhaps you just dont call him a name... you just pile on when his back is turned.

If you draw a line, he will step as close to that line and then argue about the definition of a line. But like you ... lefty or righty, jedi or sith, campy or shimano, pro or anti.... he has a side. He just seems to be a pinch more passionate about every single one of his beliefs.

You see, some of us dont care one way or another about some things and are okay with gray. He is not. He is black and white... just like his white shirt and black vest indicate.

He is a good person, as HR says. He also has got your back if you need it.

So, there you have Viper... metaphorically.

Its just how he is. So, I would say to the mighty Jabba, free Han from the carbonite. Give him the conditions of his release, and the repurcussions for crossing the line... if he crosses it.... he lives with it. This past little snafu seemed to lack in specificity.

However, if you can't deal with a wildcard .... then don't. Just make sure you are fair and consistent. But honestly, would Star Wars have been the same without him?

Just my thought.

Discuss.

Thank you for the above- Wonderful insight into someone who I find to be an enigma. Perhaps if Viper could tone down his passion and committment to an idea, he would be better received by some. He certainly has some very special abilities and knowledge. Seems a little weird to comment on someone who isn't even allowed to post


Sandy

[Louis]

More thread drift:

One of the most incredible stories I've read in a long time: New Yorker Magazine (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/09/24/070924fa_fact_sacks)

(Written by e-R's cousin apparently.)

[73Camaro_Dude]

Thank you for the above- Wonderful insight into someone who I find to be an enigma. Perhaps if Viper could tone down his passion and committment to an idea, he would be better received by some. He certainly has some very special abilities and knowledge. Seems a little weird to comment on someone who isn't even allowed to post


Sandy

Maybe Bono should tone down his passion and committment regarding Africa.

Maybe Gore should quiet his passion and committment regarding global warming.

Maybe Lance should tone down his passion and committment regarding Cancer

Perhaps Martin Luther King should have toned down his act a bit, maybe he wouldnt have gotten shot.

Perhaps Pamela Anderson should tone down her passion and committment regarding PETA (ok, that one is a joke)


All Im saying is that there are passionate people out there, and perhaps he has a peculiar delivery and a ball peen hammer .... but lord, passion cannot be contained. Otherwise we all end up mute cubicle people. Lord help us if he really sinks his teeth into something.

Again. There are all flavors.

[handsomerob]

So exactly how many personalities here are Viper?

If you were serious, you can have Serotta Pete check our IP's. Not only will they be different, we aren't even remotely close to each other geographically.

However, I will say if you assumed my intelligence level was on par with either of them, I am flattered.

[Sandy]

Maybe Bono should tone down his passion and committment regarding Africa.

Maybe Gore should quiet his passion and committment regarding global warming.

Maybe Lance should tone down his passion and committment regarding Cancer

Perhaps Martin Luther King should have toned down his act a bit, maybe he wouldnt have gotten shot.

Perhaps Pamela Anderson should tone down her passion and committment regarding PETA (ok, that one is a joke)


All Im saying is that there are passionate people out there, and perhaps he has a peculiar delivery and a ball peen hammer .... but lord, passion cannot be contained. Otherwise we all end up mute cubicle people. Lord help us if he really sinks his teeth into something.

Again. There are all flavors.

When I wrote my reply to your excellent post, I did not elaborate on what I meant and thought that perhaps it might be misunderstood slightly. I do not mean that Viper should tone down his passion and committment for anything relative to his core beliefs. What I am possibly suggesting (which I related to Viper in a PM prior to your response to my post) is that it might be prudent fior Viper to communicate in a somewhat gentler manner sometimes. Keep the passion. Keep the thoughts. Keep the committments. Just a little gentler delivery. There is more than one way to express a thought. Same thought but a slightly different delivery of such. That is all I was and am saying.


Sandy

[97CSI]

Is anyone else receiving unsolicited PMs from Viper and his small-minded supporters? If a person is banned can this include PMs? A bit like having a religious-nazi pestering you and claiming it is his right to do so.

[stevep]

i think viper cracked the log in codes.
this whole thread is viper talking to himself.

... yes it is

...no it isn't

...yes it is

...no it isn't

[3chordwonder]

So, when he goes into a battle

Dear Viper, maybe that's one tiny giveaway of where the problem lay - this is a discussion forum.