View Full Version : RAPHA questions... please help a chap out
erector
02-26-2008, 10:20 PM
People spend money on bikes and bike gear. I do, I get it. I have a peggy, next bike will be a SerottaSteel, but I have an issue and it has to do with Rapha.
Assos is great stuff, everyone (almost everyone) will agree. Best material, best fit, darn expensive, but we can justify the price for the quality. MADE IN SWITZERLAND where the chocolate, neutrality, and best watches come from. I'll throw down my hard earned cash for Swiss goods.
Rapha is MORE expensive than Assos, fancy materials, 240$ gloves made of African leather, whatever whatever whatever. MADE IN CHINA or MADE IN VIETNAM. That's where there's no age restrictions for workers (ie. 5 year olds that sew together jeans for the GAP), slave labor, sweatshops, etc.
I'm not trying to start a racial thing here... but in the past i have found that goods from china and that indo-china sector of the world have been... garbage and not usually worth the shipping cost. How can Rapha get away with charging 250$ for a SportSmartWool jersey that's made by a worker who gets paid in bowls of food/day worked?
Is their stuff that great, I bought a jersey from Competitive to see how it holds up, still too cold to use it... but boy when I do... it had better be the best jersey, longest lasting, make-me-faster kinda jersey one would expect for such a high price tag.
erector
02-26-2008, 10:21 PM
I'm not really English
pdxmech13
02-26-2008, 10:27 PM
I don't think it is the most expensive clothing out there. When buying a brand you buy into the image that comes with such brand jmoh.
steelrider
02-26-2008, 10:33 PM
I agree with the original author. If the company is going to save money by using cheap labor, they should pass the savings on to the consumer. I don't mind paying more for goods where the workers own a wage they can live on. Of course this is being stated by a union-proud firefighter.
pdxmech13
02-26-2008, 10:41 PM
so Mcdonalds .99 menu is a bargain ?
shanerpvt
02-26-2008, 10:41 PM
i understand how you feel. that being said, the rapha gear i own is my favorite. maybe is because it's wool that's lightweight enough to wear when its hot or maybe its the simple elagant designs.
either way when i get down to 180, i will reward myself with rapha. thats how i justify it.
after all isn't it just what you can justify?
:beer:
shaner
3chordwonder
02-26-2008, 10:46 PM
I too was a bit surprised to see the 'made in vietnam' tag. For the cost I would have thought they'd be made, sorry, 'crafted' in the UK by ancient artisans wearing silk gloves, or under contract by the John Smedley factory at least.
I have no idea about working conditions in the actual factory Rapha use. Maybe there's cause for some ethical concern, but as I understand it, cruel exploitation is not always a given just because the factory is overseas. It'd be interesting to know.
Quality is not necessarily linked to country of manufacture anymore imho. Good things are being made all over the world.
BTW a lot of Assos gear is now made in former eastern block areas.
johnnymossville
02-26-2008, 10:53 PM
I think you're buying the design when you buy a Rapha. Almost like when you buy an apple computer. It might be made in dirt floor tents by 12 year old girls working 18hr days, but yeah, on the back it says "Designed in California." Those designers and programmers earn a pretty good living and that computer looks and works pretty darn well.
Having said that, In clothing, I'll buy that cool design once, if it falls apart on me faster than I consider normal, I'm off to greener pastures. There are plenty of places to get nice cycling clothing.
I guess it back to the good old market based economy of pricing is set by whatever the market will bear. It obvious their stuff is nice. It's just happens to be sourced in countries with cheap labor. So they have a larger bottom line.
I DO think their stuff is expensive, but man is it nice. The only thing I have so far is the "fixed glove". That leather is out of this world. It's exactly as described. White perforated full fingered leather gloves. Really? Yes, and they are very cool. I feel faster just wearing them! :)
Their web site and features (http://www.rapha.cc/index.php?page=123) are also very inspiring. I'll pay extra for that.
Blue Jays
02-26-2008, 11:06 PM
It's nice stuff, give it a whirl. Assuming the garments are made under slave labor conditions absent any evidence is a bit of a stretch.
swoop
02-26-2008, 11:20 PM
rapha is brilliant marketing and really good bordering on excellent graphic design. they evoke an emotional response....the product is the result of those things.... but its nothing special... except for its marketing.
and yes i have some. and no, it does not live up to its promise.
Jack Brunk
02-26-2008, 11:49 PM
I bought in to their stuff and ended up with their super duper gloves. At the end of 45 days, they had more rips in the seams than stitched. They wouldn't even reply to my emails. I wouldn't give them 5 bucks for their crap.
Kirk007
02-26-2008, 11:50 PM
I like their stuff better than Assos, for many reasons - design, feel, thoughtful touches. For MY riding its nice stuff. I like the sportswool and wool for out 9 months of soggy damp weather in the PAC NW. Even in mid summer it can be in the low fifties in early morning and that wool is nice. Others mileage will differ.
BUT I've yet to pay full retail - Year end sales, closeouts etc. have netted me some jerseys, base layers and a jacket at about 50-60% of the asking price, which makes it still some of the most expensive bike kit I've bought. It reminds me of Patagonia is the outdoor gear world - combine smart marketing and a good product and they're able to charge a premium price for goods that while very nice, have roughly equivalent function of other brands.
So, buy what you like and makes you feel good. My light blue Rapha jerseys match my Peg.
Greg
jeffg
02-27-2008, 01:48 AM
Rapha base layer = awesome
Assos Microclima = awesome
Etxeondo = better than either in all respects (cost, labor, quality)
bnewt07
02-27-2008, 02:24 AM
I guess it depends what value you place on provenance. If the kit is good quality, well designed, attractive and long lasting are you bothered where it was made?
Lets be honest 'country of manufacture' is hardly simple these days. Complex products are made of materials grown/manufactured from resources all round the world, assembled in another and marketed/shipped from another. They may have been designed somewhere else too! Rapha seems to me to be as much as 'British' product as anything else or at least a 'Euro' one.
FWIW I had a very ordinary Rapha jacket that I thought poor value and a pair of leather gloves that are exquisite and look like they will last me years. I judge them good value on function, not the nationality of the leather, stitching or the packet in which they arrived.
PS As for Switzerland 'land of chocolate and neutrality etc' you might choose to describe it in less favourable terms perhaps; 'refuge of nazi millions, tax haven for criminals, racist immigration policy' for example. I'm being a bit contentious but I'm not sure we should be too seduced by national stereotyping.
I don't think it is the most expensive clothing out there. When buying a brand you buy into the image that comes with such brand jmoh.
...and Rapha excels at image creation. Instant retro - how young is this company?
3chordwonder
02-27-2008, 03:04 AM
I guess it depends what value you place on provenance. If the kit is good quality, well designed, attractive and long lasting are you bothered where it was made?
Wouldn't almost everybody place *some* value on provenance (that is, whenever they pause for a moment to consider it)? Some very little, some a lot, but there would be a point where the care factor entered the equation imho.
I'm thinking anybody buying a bike from Sachs or Serotta instead of Giant cares a lot about provenance, for instance.
bnewt07
02-27-2008, 03:57 AM
Wouldn't almost everybody place *some* value on provenance (that is, whenever they pause for a moment to consider it)? Some very little, some a lot, but there would be a point where the care factor entered the equation imho.
I'm thinking anybody buying a bike from Sachs or Serotta instead of Giant cares a lot about provenance, for instance.
Sure we all do.
Personally I suspect I'm more bothered with some items than others clothing for me is fairly unimportant, electronic goods similarly.
My point was really that such choices or preferences are not always as clear as we might think. Our 'Japanese' car was assembled in Britain. I suspect the manufacturer will be happy to push the Japanese characteristsics in markets which value reliability, efficiency etc yet the 'Euro' background where they think that has added impact.
saab2000
02-27-2008, 03:58 AM
PS As for Switzerland 'land of chocolate and neutrality etc' you might choose to describe it in less favourable terms perhaps; 'refuge of nazi millions, tax haven for criminals, racist immigration policy' for example. I'm being a bit contentious but I'm not sure we should be too seduced by national stereotyping.
First of all, that would be buying into the media's stereotyping and ignorance of reality..... :no:
They are far, far, far from perfect. But not all the racist, anti-semites that they are made out to be either. No better or worse than anyone else really.
Don't stereotype. Anyway, we're done going down this road on this forum...... Cheers! :beer:
Second, I don't think that Assos is actually all made in Switzerland. I read a clothing comparison once which included a bunch of top brands, including Assos and I recall the articles in question having been made in Eastern Europe. This does not mean it's bad at all, but not really being 'Swiss', which is how it's portrayed. But that held true for most of the clothing, including the Adidas and Castelli, neither of which had products tested which originated in Germany or Italy respectively.
Ultimately, I wouldn't care if it came from China if China would have some semblance of a level playing field, which they don't. Also, every company claims to have switched production of pretty much everything to China to save costs, but those cost savings don't really actually reach the customers IMHO. Some do, some don't I guess.
SimonC
02-27-2008, 04:45 AM
I like the Rapha stuff, and it fits me better than most other brands. However, I don't own a single item right now - I brought some of the string-back gloves and they stretched terribly, and I brought a jersey (back when the prices were somewhat lower than they are now) and whilst it was good, it wasn't great (i.e. providing value for money). It died in a road-rash related incident, and I'm in no hurry to replace it. I'd agree with others, the country of manufacture leaves a slightly bitter taste. The only thing I'm tempted by is the standard-weight softshell, but it doesn't do anything new versus my existing jackets.
Assos is nice kit, but I've been dissapointed by their value for money too - I brought an Airblock jacket (the one before the 851) and it looked like a cheap tracksuit top. No matter how well it functioned, I wasn't wearing it...
EtxeOndo is great - I find their 'golden' chamois more comfortable than anything else, and the quality is good (but not perfect - I've had a chamois become unstitched after a dozen or so rides). It's just finding somewhere that stocks it that's the problem.
Patagonia is fantastic - I've never had anything from them I didn't love. They've got great ethical policies, quality is top-notch, and the prices don't feel gouging (especially on sale)
1centaur
02-27-2008, 05:10 AM
Two very separate questions: why Rapha and do you care where/how clothes are made?
Why Rapha is simple: came at advertising cycling stuff from a totally different direction - low-key style and high intellectual component (thoughtful features) sells to a certain type of rider, followed up by mostly glowing reviews from the trade press. In fact, I have seen more negatives in this thread than all other sources combined. I don't own any, but I have read the ads very carefully looking for a reason to buy - they are good advertisers.
As for foreign labor conditions, first, the thought that low labor cost should be passed on to the consumer is silly - there's no reason to get low cost labor if you are going to pass it on. The point of low cost labor is to increase profits or catch up with the other guys' labor costs. Second, the quality of the construction is up to the company - they can enforce high quality or not. Sounds like they often do but not all the time. Third, child labor is not inherently evil: it's a way for families to make more money and for a society to transition to the relatively luxurious point where children don't have to work (how recent a phenomenon is that on our planet BTW? Pretty recent I'd say). In a free market companies can offer to pay whatever they want and workers (or their parents) can decide to play or pass. Over time, the wage reflects what the society needs to make. However, truly crummy labor conditions are a whole other thing. I would not put production in a facility that treated people badly just to save a little money. We don't know that about Rapha, either way.
bnewt07
02-27-2008, 05:21 AM
.
saab2000
02-27-2008, 05:21 AM
Third, child labor is not inherently evil: it's a way for families to make more money and for a society to transition to the relatively luxurious point where children don't have to work (how recent a phenomenon is that on our planet BTW? Pretty recent I'd say). In a free market companies can offer to pay whatever they want and workers (or their parents) can decide to play or pass. Over time, the wage reflects what the society needs to make. However, truly crummy labor conditions are a whole other thing. I would not put production in a facility that treated people badly just to save a little money. We don't know that about Rapha, either way.
:eek: Did I just read this?
How 'bout we educate our children instead of rich westerners like ourselves expecting or even accepting children producing goods for us. Child labor does not rid the world of child labor, as your point would suggest, by raising the standard of living for a family. But educating those same children might.
I would never knowingly buy a product made with child labor and I could never in good conscience go for a bike ride if my $250 jersey with Euro-savvy marketing were in fact being stitched by children.
bnewt07
02-27-2008, 05:26 AM
First of all, that would be buying into the media's stereotyping and ignorance of reality..... :no:
They are far, far, far from perfect. But not all the racist, anti-semites that they are made out to be either. No better or worse than anyone else really.
Don't stereotype. Anyway, we're done going down this road on this forum...... Cheers! :beer:
Second, I don't think that Assos is actually all made in Switzerland. I read a clothing comparison once which included a bunch of top brands, including Assos and I recall the articles in question having been made in Eastern Europe. This does not mean it's bad at all, but not really being 'Swiss', which is how it's portrayed. But that held true for most of the clothing, including the Adidas and Castelli, neither of which had products tested which originated in Germany or Italy respectively.
.
We are in agreement. Any national sterotype, wether it is 'cuddly' or 'nasty', Switzerland or China is likely to be a weak generalisation. Frankly that makes it a poor reason for choosing a product-even if we are seduced by such things.
3chordwonder
02-27-2008, 05:28 AM
My point was really that such choices or preferences are not always as clear as we might think.
+ 1 on that. It takes work to find out what's what nowadays. Opaque supply chains and the continual devaluation of what used to be truly premium brands by expansion into cheaper production lines is no doubt part of the reason for the rise of the demand for 'authenticity' (and value attached to that authenticity - 5 year waiting list anybody?)
The dominant issue with clothing is just the same as the dominant issue with bikes, namely fit. Other qualities do count in the mix but they are (or should be) subordinate. A good fit CAN be cheap; an bad fit (uncomfortable) CAN be expensive (a waste of money).
The big problem with buying very expensive cycling clothing is the immediate loss that can result from a crash, which can happen at any moment (even on a first outing - the horror!).
I'm convinced by the quality of Serotta products. Rapha? Not sure. I inspected their range at a show last year and it looked nice, but how well would it wear, how does it wash, do colors fade, do garments strretch of of shape, does stiching remain strong? At their prices I'm not inclined to find answers to these questions from personal hands-on experience.
Nick H.
02-27-2008, 06:17 AM
There are SO MANY things I have to say about Rapha! Bear with me:
1) It's a very young company which has spent huge amounts of cash on marketing to give it some instant heritage. But it really has no reason to be associated with the Merckx era. So I try to ignore the marketing and assess each product on its tangible qualities. If you wear Rapha just because of the brand, in my opinion that makes you a tragic fashion victim. I refuse to buy into Rapha's message that it is achingly hip. That's about as pathetic as the 'fakenger' look. www.movingtargetzine.com/article/fakenger
2) Does Rapha know or care about the possible sweatshop conditions in their subcontractors' workshops in India, China etc? They don't have many staff, so how can they keep an eye on this sort of thing? I have just emailed them to ask.
3) If you want to give yourself a treat, how about an Ibex jersey? To me it seems more luxurious and more practical because it's virtually pure 17.5 micron merino, whereas the Rapha is mostly polyester. The Ibex Fausto Lightweight jersey is down from $125 to $69 at the moment. I bet less of your cash would go on marketing than it would if you bought a Rapha Lightweight jersey for $170.
4) Some of Rapha's products are very unusual in their design or materials and have no obvious competitors. I'm thinking of stuff like the white Grand Tour gloves (which I own, as do Tom Boonen and David Millar :help: :butt: ) and the Fixed Shorts. So if Rapha's original thinking creates a product which floats your boat, the company deserves your business. Maybe one day they will have a proud history of innovation which earns as much respect as this: www.assos.com/en/facts/
People buy it because they can, while others cannot. Simple as that.
Russell
02-27-2008, 07:22 AM
so Mcdonalds .99 menu is a bargain ?
it is when you are down to your last $ from a night of drinking
People buy it because they can, while others cannot. Simple as that.
I can, but I don't. Even more simple. :) :beer:
Is that a spider in my wallet?
Too Tall
02-27-2008, 08:25 AM
The softshell jacket is crazy good and I've had a few.
They are made in China???? ***??? P.Levine has some 'splaining to do.
For me, the design of certain Rapha pieces is so superior to others that I'm willing to pay the price. Their Softshell jacket is the single best piece of cycling garb I've ever used. Some pieces price beyond my personal sense of cost/benefit though I can't explain why I think this is worth it, that's not. Some of the new pieces for spring are brilliant or perhaps improvements on previous designs, which would make them near-incomparable. It's expensive but no one is being forced to buy anything. We like what we like. I'm not keen on Assos, it's style is contemporary entomology.
Do any of us really know the conditions under which Rapha materials are made in places like Vietnam, etc.? I know Rapha's director, Simon Mottram, pretty well: he is a fine person with a keen sense of social conscience, not only business acumen. I am sure he will be responsive to any issues or questions that might arise.
dbrk
DRZRM
02-27-2008, 09:01 AM
+1, hold out for sales. I love the Rapha stuff I have, but I'd never pay their retail. I got a jersey from clearance the other day with free shipping, and had it two days later. It is really well made, I look out for their clearance every year. As to the cost of production, I agree, I'm a bit surprised they are outsourcing at those prices as well.
I like their stuff better than Assos, for many reasons - design, feel, thoughtful touches. For MY riding its nice stuff. I like the sportswool and wool for out 9 months of soggy damp weather in the PAC NW. Even in mid summer it can be in the low fifties in early morning and that wool is nice. Others mileage will differ.
BUT I've yet to pay full retail - Year end sales, closeouts etc. have netted me some jerseys, base layers and a jacket at about 50-60% of the asking price, which makes it still some of the most expensive bike kit I've bought. It reminds me of Patagonia is the outdoor gear world - combine smart marketing and a good product and they're able to charge a premium price for goods that while very nice, have roughly equivalent function of other brands.
So, buy what you like and makes you feel good. My light blue Rapha jerseys match my Peg.
Greg
Where does the Rapha name come from?
I see the association with Paul Smith, a very smart man in the fashion industry.
Rapha - Paul Smith meets Prada?
fiamme red
02-27-2008, 09:16 AM
My favorite Rapha product is their Leg Shaving Kit: "Joint venture with Geo F. Trumper of Mayfair. Finest badger brush and chrome travel razor in leather case."
I wouldn't buy any Rapha stuff because I can't stand their marketing. And of course, their exorbitant prices are a big part of the marketing. It's the most expensive, so it must be the best, right?
SimonC
02-27-2008, 09:36 AM
Where does the Rapha name come from?
"The Rapha name comes from deep in the heritage of cycle sport. Rapha was a junior cycle racing team in the 1960s, designed to prepare young cyclists for a career in the professional team sponsored by the St. Raphael drink brand"
Design Council: Rapha Case Study (http://www.designcouncil.org.uk/en/Case-Studies/All-Case-Studies/Rapha/)
e-RICHIE
02-27-2008, 09:38 AM
"The Rapha name comes from deep in the heritage of cycle sport. Rapha was a junior cycle racing team in the 1960s, designed to prepare young cyclists for a career in the professional team sponsored by the St. Raphael drink brand"
Design Council: Rapha Case Study (http://www.designcouncil.org.uk/en/Case-Studies/All-Case-Studies/Rapha/)
wasn't that roger st pierre's racing team atmo?
fiamme red
02-27-2008, 10:17 AM
wasn't that roger st pierre's racing team atmo?The journalist for International Cycle Sport?
You can see from http://www.cyclingwebsite.net/ploegen.php that the St. Raphael team was divided in 1959-1961. I believe that one part was managed by Raphael Geminiani (who was also racing through 1960), the other by Raymond Louviot. The part of the team called "Rapha" (e.g., http://www.cyclingwebsite.net/ploegfiche.php?id=3905) wasn't exactly a junior team, with older riders like Mahé, Everaert, and Robinson.
zeroking17
02-27-2008, 10:20 AM
Where does the Rapha name come from?
Could it be it based on stylemeister Raphael Geminiani (nice rider who would later become director of Jacques Anquetil's St. Raphael team)?
e-RICHIE
02-27-2008, 10:23 AM
The journalist for International Cycle Sport?
yesmo.
Steve Hampsten
02-27-2008, 11:02 AM
I met Roger at a race in England back in '77 - just happened to be standing next to him and started chatting. He seemed happy that I had his book - nice bloke, good writer.
Rapha...either you grok it or you don't. To me, it's most closely aligned with the British tradition of well-made, hand-crafted clothing, tools, and sporting goods. Not luxury items per se, but expensive because the the good stuff is costly to produce. I totally get that the prices are Way Up There, but if I go to Nordstrom and look at Italian wool shirts I'm looking at similar pricing, and damme if the Rapha stuff doesn't look good and work great. Buy it if you like it and props to Simon for a refreshing take in a field that's been wanting for many years, imho.
Cary Ford
02-27-2008, 11:22 AM
Vest sucks. Does not breathe and the zipper is too small to manipulate with gloved hands.
But it looks cool.
davids
02-27-2008, 11:29 AM
Rapha is way too expensive for my tastes. I like the look of many of their jerseys, but I won't spend that much on cycling clothes. Strictly my own comfort level.
Since I've never used a piece, I can't speak to their quality.
I've had decent luck with the Ibex stuff (and those sales prices are great), but I really like the Earth, Wind & Rider jerseys. They've got a limited product line, but I'm impressed with their 100% wool jerseys. Not cheap, but not Rapha territory.
Performance over fashion. Ibex products are realistically priced, well made, and rugged. Ralpha's marketing scheme is too pretentious for me and their prices are ridiculous.
goonster
02-27-2008, 11:51 AM
www.assos.com/en/facts/
"Project Starbust is the fastest cycling bodysuit on the face of the earth."
What does that even mean? How about on the rump of the earth? :confused:
Anyway, not with me in it, it's not. :banana:
BumbleBeeDave
02-27-2008, 11:51 AM
It's nice stuff, give it a whirl. Assuming the garments are made under slave labor conditions absent any evidence is a bit of a stretch.
. . . a huge number of assumptions being made in this thread about a number of things.
Rapha is selling a lifestyle through their marketing and style, just as Eddie Bauer, L.L. Bean, and Orvis do. Customers fancy themselves as taking on that lifestyle by using the company's products. That's a surprise? Same goes for North Face, Patagonia, and even Rock & Republic. That's seems true to me even if the products really don't work very well or deliberately use outdated technology just because it's part of the "lifestyle." Is that any different from the marketing of any other product?
As for where and how the product is made, I think you'd be hard pressed these days to find just about any item of clothing that isn't made somewhere in Southeast Asia. Just because it says Vietnam or Bangladesh or Sri Lanka on the label doesn't mean it's being made in a sweatshop by little kids. Same goes for bikes. "Made in Taiwan" is no longer a synonym for low quality in the bike biz. The bottom line for me is that I truly don't know under what conditions something is made for just about any product I buy. I can't know and don't have the resources or the time to go find out. So I don't expend a lot of worry on it because I'd drive myself crazy.
Worry about the source conditions if you want, but for me it comes down to not liking the "look" and even if I did, there ain't no way in, uh, heck that I'm payin' $200 or $250 for a pair of gloves! :eek:
BBD
johnnymossville
02-27-2008, 11:54 AM
Rapha is way too expensive for my tastes. I like the look of many of their jerseys, but I won't spend that much on cycling clothes. Strictly my own comfort level.
Since I've never used a piece, I can't speak to their quality.
I've had decent luck with the Ibex stuff (and those sales prices are great), but I really like the Earth, Wind & Rider jerseys. They've got a limited product line, but I'm impressed with their 100% wool jerseys. Not cheap, but not Rapha territory.
Thanks for the tip about ewnr, I checked them out and they sound pretty good to me. I'm going to see if I can find a dealer nearby to try the stuff.
Johny
02-27-2008, 11:56 AM
FWIW, a lot of Ibex stuff these days are also made in China. I am still a huge fan of both Rapha and Ibex. They make great stuff. Buy them when they are on sale... cheaper than a lot of other brands.
sg8357
02-27-2008, 12:01 PM
Rapha bike clothing seems pretty good. Rapha branding I take
as sort of joke on the British penchant for badly planned travel,
where you suffer mightly, then come home and tell a good tale
at your club over 100 year old scotch.
Grant Peterson had similar fun a while ago with "Nigel Smythe"
bike bags, he made up a great story, sold some luggage then
let everyone in on the joke.
saab2000
02-27-2008, 12:06 PM
I actually like the Rapha marketing. It definitely strikes a chord with me. And just because it's made in SE Asia doesn't mean its bad. But it still kinda bums me for much the same reason that I want my Campagnolo to be made in Italy and my Volkswagen to be made in Germany and my Stöckli skis to be made in Switzerland and my Serotta to be made in Saratoga Springs.
People would be in a massive uproar if Serotta started producing a line made somewhere else to save costs. I guarantee it.
fiamme red
02-27-2008, 12:09 PM
Rapha bike clothing seems pretty good. Rapha branding I take
as sort of joke on the British penchant for badly planned travel,
where you suffer mightly, then come home and tell a good tale
at your club over 100 year old scotch."Ira Ryan finished second in an unsanctioned Raid Race from San Francisco to Portland... He stopped only at night to sleep wrapped in plastic, in the bottom of ditches, on the side of the road. He wore the same bib shorts and sleeveless jersey three very long days straight. He ate fruit from trees and candy bars from gas stations." (http://www.rapha.cc/continental/index.php)
If he hadn't bought Rapha, he could have afforded two changes of clothes and even a sandwich or two at a deli, or at least a bagel.
. . . a huge number of assumptions being made in this thread about a number of things.
Rapha is selling a lifestyle through their marketing and style, just as Eddie Bauer, L.L. Bean, and Orvis do. Customers fancy themselves as taking on that lifestyle by using the company's products. That's a surprise? Same goes for North Face, Patagonia, and even Rock & Republic. That's seems true to me even if the products really don't work very well or deliberately use outdated technology just because it's part of the "lifestyle." Is that any different from the marketing of any other product?
As for where and how the product is made, I think you'd be hard pressed these days to find just about any item of clothing that isn't made somewhere in Southeast Asia. Just because it says Vietnam or Bangladesh or Sri Lanka on the label doesn't mean it's being made in a sweatshop by little kids. Same goes for bikes. "Made in Taiwan" is no longer a synonym for low quality in the bike biz. The bottom line for me is that I truly don't know under what conditions something is made for just about any product I buy. I can't know and don't have the resources or the time to go find out. So I don't expend a lot of worry on it because I'd drive myself crazy.
Worry about the source conditions if you want, but for me it comes down to not liking the "look" and even if I did, there ain't no way in, uh, heck that I'm payin' $200 or $250 for a pair of gloves! :eek:
BBD
I wonder how sweaty that Serotta workshop gets?
$250! You've got to have balls of brass to take that to the market and be able to keep a straight face in conversation with a potential customer. Reminds me of Alec Baldwin in Glengarry Glenross - "Call yourself a salesman you s of a b?!".
The emperor and his new clothes?
7,986 posts! Fanatic :beer:
coylifut
02-27-2008, 12:16 PM
I wear Rapha stuff from head to toe when I'm not in my team gear. The rest of you look like utter fools in your stretched out and baggy IBEX socially-concious and intelectually superior biking duds. Oh, and tell your spouses and girl-friends to stop slipping me their cell-numbers at the coffee stop; I'm all booked for now.
jsfoster
02-27-2008, 12:47 PM
Rapha Sale:
http://www.rapha.cc/index.php?page=405&utm_source=newsletter_27feb08&utm_medium=email&utm_content=textlink&utm_campaign=febsale
Rapha is great stuff, fits well, wears well, is comfrtable. Like anything else, one does not want to look like a window maniquin, so, don't buy the gloves, oor what ever.
the few Rapha items I have, jacket, jerseys, I got on sale. It is just a lot easier to live with it all.
- Jon
Too Tall
02-27-2008, 01:01 PM
"Ira Ryan finished second in an unsanctioned Raid Race from San Francisco to Portland... He stopped only at night to sleep wrapped in plastic, in the bottom of ditches, on the side of the road. He wore the same bib shorts and sleeveless jersey three very long days straight. He ate fruit from trees and candy bars from gas stations." (http://www.rapha.cc/continental/index.php)
If he hadn't bought Rapha, he could have afforded two changes of clothes and even a sandwich or two at a deli, or at least a bagel.
(Arms Crossed and Scowling) Don't talk about my Boy Ira dat way :cool:
hehe
manet
02-27-2008, 01:06 PM
The rest of you look like utter fools in your stretched out and baggy IBEX socially-concious and intelectually superior biking duds. Oh, and tell your spouses and girl-friends to stop slipping me their cell-numbers at the coffee stop; I'm all booked for now.
as of noon o clock today the east coast is taking numbers too
Johny
02-27-2008, 01:07 PM
I wear Rapha stuff from head to toe when I'm not in my team gear. The rest of you look like utter fools in your stretched out and baggy IBEX socially-concious and intelectually superior biking duds. Oh, and tell your spouses and girl-friends to stop slipping me their cell-numbers at the coffee stop; I'm all booked for now.
My wife is not happy with that I wear Rapha at work. She is happy I wear them at home though.
fiamme red
02-27-2008, 02:03 PM
As for where and how the product is made, I think you'd be hard pressed these days to find just about any item of clothing that isn't made somewhere in Southeast Asia.Bouré and Kucharik, to name two companies, still make their stuff in the U.S. of A.
swoop
02-27-2008, 02:45 PM
i really don't care if my stuff is made my nice puppies in chinese slave camps. if i moralized over every purchase i'd never leave the house. its a dark world and i help finance it. that's a separate conversation.
my rapha gilet (sic) looks really cool. i like the website lots. its too long. the fabric doesn't breathe. the white stripe won't come clean down at the base of the zipper. the zipper is too small. there is no fleece in the collar. it only zips from one direction. even though i hand washed it the black started fading after a month. and it is a much lower quality product that what is promised by the website. the fabric isn't special.
i had a cheap vest from pi last three years before it faded the slightest bit. the zipper was more functional. the collar had a touch of fleece and it breathed.. yet was light and at the same time .. perfect for vest days.
i want to love rapha... i do love the marketing. if it were at 1/2 the cost i would say its fantastic.. but for the price it pulls up way too short and when i see it i associate it with poo and freds. at the same time.
i love the catalogue. its all cool til you shell out all those sheckles and the quality is uneven. the softshell is pretty perfect but for the zipper being off center and the cut being too long in medium.
i'll only buy this stuff grey market from here on in.
doesn't mean you won't love it. .. shoot.. i hate pickles... so all this is from a guy that hates pickled foods. buy some and see what you think-mo. you've got cash to burn, right?
stormyClouds
02-27-2008, 02:53 PM
$250! You've got to have balls of brass to take that to the market and be able to keep a straight face in conversation with a potential customer. Reminds me of Alec Baldwin in Glengarry Glenross - "Call yourself a salesman you s of a b?!".
sorry to stray here, but this is one of the great movies of the 90's. even if you hate alec baldwin - he is top notch in this film. if you haven't seen this, do yourself a favor...
carry on.
93legendti
02-27-2008, 02:59 PM
sorry to stray here, but this is one of the great movies of the 90's. even if you hate alec baldwin - he is top notch in this film. if you haven't seen this, do yourself a favor...
carry on.
Everyone of the stellar cast was great in that movie.
OT but worth watching:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TROhlThs9qY&feature=related
goonster
02-27-2008, 03:25 PM
"Ira Ryan finished second in an unsanctioned Raid Race from San Francisco to Portland... He stopped only at night to sleep wrapped in plastic, in the bottom of ditches, on the side of the road. He wore the same bib shorts and sleeveless jersey three very long days straight. He ate fruit from trees and candy bars from gas stations." (http://www.rapha.cc/continental/index.php)
If he hadn't bought Rapha, he could have afforded two changes of clothes and even a sandwich or two at a deli, or at least a bagel.
As I recall, the RCO was before I'd ever heard of Rapha, and certainly before they had a U.S. distributor. I think what fiamme is trying to say is that when you compare the spirit and reality of that event (DIY to the core; if I'm not mistaken, entry fee was something like twenty bucks and included a t-shirt) with the concept of $250 gloves, the irony is pretty thick.
coylifut
02-27-2008, 03:28 PM
they recently changed the fabric on the gilet and it's now made of eVent fabric which is the same stuff used in the Showers Pass rain jackets. I had the same experience as you, but mine got sent back when the Vietnamese stitching came un raveled and the new one they sent me was in the new fabric. The rub is the stuff is so obnoxiously expensive; they should have got it right the first time around.
i really don't care if my stuff is made my nice puppies in chinese slave camps. if i moralized over every purchase i'd never leave the house. its a dark world and i help finance it. that's a separate conversation.
my rapha gilet (sic) looks really cool. i like the website lots. its too long. the fabric doesn't breathe. the white stripe won't come clean down at the base of the zipper. the zipper is too small. there is no fleece in the collar. it only zips from one direction. even though i hand washed it the black started fading after a month. and it is a much lower quality product that what is promised by the website. the fabric isn't special.
i had a cheap vest from pi last three years before it faded the slightest bit. the zipper was more functional. the collar had a touch of fleece and it breathed.. yet was light and at the same time .. perfect for vest days.
i want to love rapha... i do love the marketing. if it were at 1/2 the cost i would say its fantastic.. but for the price it pulls up way too short and when i see it i associate it with poo and freds. at the same time.
i love the catalogue. its all cool til you shell out all those sheckles and the quality is uneven. the softshell is pretty perfect but for the zipper being off center and the cut being too long in medium.
i'll only buy this stuff grey market from here on in.
doesn't mean you won't love it. .. shoot.. i hate pickles... so all this is from a guy that hates pickled foods. buy some and see what you think-mo. you've got cash to burn, right?
e-RICHIE
02-27-2008, 03:29 PM
<snipped>.. when you compare the spirit and reality of that event (DIY to the core; if I'm not mistaken, entry fee was something like twenty bucks and included a t-shirt) with the concept of $250 gloves, the irony is pretty thick.
i'd hit that atmo.
fiamme red
02-27-2008, 04:00 PM
As I recall, the RCO was before I'd ever heard of Rapha, and certainly before they had a U.S. distributor. I think what fiamme is trying to say is that when you compare the spirit and reality of that event (DIY to the core; if I'm not mistaken, entry fee was something like twenty bucks and included a t-shirt) with the concept of $250 gloves, the irony is pretty thick.Right.
Everything about Rapha strikes me as phony. Look at their roller races: forks are fixed to a stand, so falling isn't possible. "The Rapha Continental is our commitment to the lost art of cycling and to glory through suffering." Ha!
http://www.belgiumkneewarmers.com/2008/02/handmade-bicycle-show-rapha-roller.html
http://bp2.blogger.com/_MSkdtPZIzjU/R7zsic0_QbI/AAAAAAAAAX0/P8fqXtw24Co/s1600-h/Rapha2.jpg
e-RICHIE
02-27-2008, 04:07 PM
http://bp2.blogger.com/_MSkdtPZIzjU/R7zsic0_QbI/AAAAAAAAAX0/P8fqXtw24Co/s1600-h/Rapha2.jpg
quite the tushmo atmo.
is that the opposing team in the jeans - i hope.
if not - pls ignore.
MilanoTom
02-27-2008, 04:16 PM
It's too bad that Viper isn't around. I'd love to see what he'd have to say about all of you "how do we really know that working conditions are bad in Vietnam" types. Y'all probably stand in front of mirrors preening and admiring yourselves.
Tom
e-RICHIE
02-27-2008, 04:20 PM
austen texas forum rulesmo -
for what do we live, but to make sport for our
neighbours, and laugh at them in our turn atmo?
coylifut
02-27-2008, 04:22 PM
It's too bad that Viper isn't around. I'd love to see what he'd have to say about all of you "how do we really know that working conditions are bad in Vietnam" types. Y'all probably stand in front of mirrors preening and admiring yourselves.
Tom
And you don't?
I'll go back to my wife's comments and that's "you are all rolling sex repellent." She further states "don't let anyone that you'd like get amorous with see you in those get-ups because if you do, no chance."
Cycling clothes should be sexy well before it's functional and if it's both that's a plus. Look at the Richard Sachs all black kit. Sexy from top to bottom. Perhaps that's why e-RICHIE gets "more tail than Sinatra."
e-RICHIE
02-27-2008, 04:25 PM
Perhaps that's why e-RICHIE gets "more tail than Sinatra."
should be a sticky atmo.
Louis
02-27-2008, 04:25 PM
Look at the Richard Sachs all black kit. Sexy from top to bottom. Perhaps that's why e-RICHIE gets "more tail than Sinatra."
It's actually a very dark brown. I'm serious.
johnnymossville
02-27-2008, 04:26 PM
really interesting all of a sudden.
fiamme red
02-27-2008, 04:26 PM
Cycling clothes should be sexy well before it's functionalhttp://www.classicrendezvous.com/images/Sweden/CresAd3L.jpg
e-RICHIE
02-27-2008, 04:28 PM
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/images/Sweden/CresAd3L.jpg
abba power atmo.
BumbleBeeDave
02-27-2008, 04:28 PM
should be a sticky atmo.
. . . There's one heck of a joke hanging there waiting to be plucked, but I'm going to skip it! :eek: :p ;)
BBD
e-RICHIE
02-27-2008, 04:32 PM
. . . There's one heck of a joke hanging there waiting to be plucked, but I'm going to skip it! :eek: :p ;)
BBD
did you hear the one about the framebuilder and the freshman senator atmo?
coylifut
02-27-2008, 04:35 PM
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/images/Sweden/CresAd3L.jpg
Now we're effin talking. Swedish girl on a Swedish bike. My pal's dad has that very bike and still rides it to this day. Funny thing about this whole thread is I walked outside at lunch time and some guy rolls out of Stumptown and gets on his Brass Knuckle with a tri-spoke front, rear disk, negative angle stem and uber deep track bars. He's got ****ies cut off at the calf, bare arms sporting "sleeves" and more piercings than a Burmese water buffalo. All of this to he can look uber cool on a bike that I'll never see at the track. I say good on him. We're all vain, at least he openly admits it.
Grant McLean
02-27-2008, 04:37 PM
I'll go back to my wife's comments and that's "you are all rolling sex repellent." She further states "don't let anyone that you'd like get amorous with see you in those get-ups because if you do, no chance."
Cycling clothes should be sexy well before it's functional and if it's both that's a plus. Look at the Richard Sachs all black kit. Sexy from top to bottom. Perhaps that's why e-RICHIE gets "more tail than Sinatra."
Since the T.o.C all I hear is from my GF
is about how ripped Flux's calf muscles are.
I need a cycelwear brand that can give me thatmo.
-g
Too Tall
02-27-2008, 04:38 PM
"Looks Count"(tm) I charge extra for THAT fitting :rolleyes:
fiamme red
02-27-2008, 04:47 PM
What's with the black socks? :confused:
http://www.rapha.cc/continental/images/team_1.jpg
paczki
02-27-2008, 04:51 PM
What's with the black socks? :confused:
http://www.rapha.cc/continental/images/team_1.jpg
What you looking at? Don't mess with us. We wear black socks and we like 'em. If you want to join our club, meet us at the Y after work. And be prepared to ride those poseurs in the other cycling gangs into the ground. Then a bit of leg-shaving and a bottle of fine Pinot :banana:
coylifut
02-27-2008, 04:53 PM
What's with the black socks? :confused:
http://www.rapha.cc/continental/images/team_1.jpg
funny, we had this same discussion last year, I write about my wife's take on cycling clothing and this Rapha team appears in my very home town whithin a month. Young guys - they'll adapt quick if they think it'll get 'em some trim.
fiamme red
02-27-2008, 04:59 PM
What's with the black socks? :confused:I just found this (http://www.rapha.cc/index.php?page=94): "Rouleur’s editor has been an author, editor and writer on cycling for fifteen years. His outspoken views on what’s good and bad about the sport, a passion for 1970s and 1980s Classics and hatred of black socks drives Rouleur forward."
LOL!!!
justinf
02-27-2008, 05:23 PM
a supposition of this thread: dudes that wear rapha think they are cooler than they really are.
actual content of this thread: dudes trying to act cool by hating on rapha.
paczki
02-27-2008, 05:28 PM
a supposition of this thread: dudes that wear rapha think they are cooler than they really are.
actual content of this thread: dudes trying to act cool by hating on rapha.
You don't think that picture is funny? Really?
capybaras
02-27-2008, 05:30 PM
a supposition of this thread: dudes that wear rapha think they are cooler than they really are.
actual content of this thread: dudes trying to act cool by hating on rapha.
If anyone is in need of a $150 razor please pm me. I can hook you up :banana:
saab2000
02-27-2008, 05:33 PM
Was that Rapha selling those $14.95 Zip Loc bags last year on eBay, marketing them as 'all-weather cycling' wallets or something like that?
capybaras
02-27-2008, 05:35 PM
Was that Rapha selling those $14.95 Zip Loc bags last year on eBay, marketing them as 'all-weather cycling' wallets or something like that?
Move the decimal point over one. ;)
Louis
02-27-2008, 05:41 PM
Was that Rapha selling those $14.95 Zip Loc bags last year on eBay, marketing them as 'all-weather cycling' wallets or something like that?
How much do they charge for Sporks?
ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) -- Anchorage police have arrested a suspect in an armed robbery. Now they're trying to determine if the weapon involved was a spork -- a hybrid of a spoon and fork found at fast-food restaurants.
Police said a suspect tried to grab a man's watch on Monday night.
The victim said the assailant swung a pocketknife at him but four parallel scratches on the victim's side make police suspect the wound was administered with a spork.
Peter Albert, 52, was arrested a few blocks from the scene and charged with robbery. Police said Albert was intoxicated and carrying a small pocketknife as well as a backpack containing a fast food bag and sporks.
Albert is being held at the Anchorage jail with bail set at $5,000.
justinf
02-27-2008, 05:46 PM
You don't think that picture is funny? Really?
yeah i do you got me. . . but that's not my point.
capybaras
02-27-2008, 05:47 PM
How much do they charge for Sporks?
ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) -- Anchorage police have arrested a suspect in an armed robbery. Now they're trying to determine if the weapon involved was a spork -- a hybrid of a spoon and fork found at fast-food restaurants.
Police said a suspect tried to grab a man's watch on Monday night.
The victim said the assailant swung a pocketknife at him but four parallel scratches on the victim's side make police suspect the wound was administered with a spork.
Peter Albert, 52, was arrested a few blocks from the scene and charged with robbery. Police said Albert was intoxicated and carrying a small pocketknife as well as a backpack containing a fast food bag and sporks.
Albert is being held at the Anchorage jail with bail set at $5,000.
I will sell you a spork for $100 - special price just for you. :beer:
johnnymossville
02-27-2008, 05:56 PM
What's with the black socks? :confused:
http://www.rapha.cc/continental/images/team_1.jpg
I'll take an Olive one like the guy in the middle.
Kirk007
02-27-2008, 06:07 PM
This thread cracks me up. If nothing else Rapha certainly evokes folks' emotions.
So does Rapha=Campy or Rapha=Shimano?
I think we need to bring back the political threads, at least then we can all get our panties in a bunch over something that actually might make a difference in the world.
Ride, Wear, Think, Eat, etc. what you want! What does it matter if someone you've never met thinks you're a cool kid, a fred or a poseur? You are who you are, be comfortable with that.
shanerpvt
02-27-2008, 06:34 PM
austen texas forum rulesmo -
for what do we live, but to make sport for our
neighbours, and laugh at them in our turn atmo?
austen texas forum?
e-RICHIE
02-27-2008, 07:01 PM
austen texas forum?
jane's austen texas forum atmo.
DarrenCT
02-27-2008, 07:35 PM
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/images/Sweden/CresAd3L.jpg
PM sent
rwsaunders
02-27-2008, 07:38 PM
The original Rapha dude.
stevep
02-27-2008, 07:40 PM
The original Rapha dude.
hey,
thats me when i was a kid
BumbleBeeDave
02-27-2008, 07:48 PM
You are who you are, be comfortable with that.
I just find it easier to be who I am without spending $250 on a pair of bike gloves.
BBD
e-RICHIE
02-27-2008, 07:50 PM
I just find it easier to be who I am without spending $250 on a pair of bike gloves.
BBD
seven more posts and you'll be MISTER 8k to ME atmo!
DarrenCT
02-27-2008, 07:51 PM
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1504/bikesshnew2gy5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
BumbleBeeDave
02-27-2008, 07:52 PM
seven more posts and you'll be MISTER 8k to ME atmo!
. . . if I spend $250 sheckels on a pair of Iso-Toner rejects?
BBD
davids
02-27-2008, 08:10 PM
What's with the black socks? :confused:
http://www.rapha.cc/continental/images/team_1.jpgI don't know what's funnier - The dismal urban backdrop or the guys posing in front of it.
The third guy from the right - It looks like he's wearing one of those white leather ties from the early '80s, blown up to clown size.
p.s. I wear black socks all the time. They match my Sidis.
p.p.s. And everyone knows helmets should be white.
Kirk007
02-27-2008, 08:59 PM
I just find it easier to be who I am without spending $250 on a pair of bike gloves.
BBD
that's cool, and clearly you are comfortable expressing yourself through your bike attire! Good on you.
Your later response to e-richie comes off to me though as still inferring that those who do wear $250 iso-toners do so only to try to be cool. If I'm wrong mea culpa. But if I'm not, so what?
For those who feel good about wearing those $250 gloves (no I'm not one of them, but good on them its their choice) - there seems to be, in some of these posts, a strong, negative visceral reaction not just to the quality of the product but the whole gestalt of Rapha (which btw seems to be accomplishing its mission as a marketing approach), it then, to me extends directly or inferentially to a passing of judgment on those who do chose to spend their money on $250 gloves and the like. (but maybe too many years as a lawyer has me looking for unstated messages in all written word).
But if I'm right, that's what I don't get. I think the judgmental nature of people is truly one of the uglier aspects of human nature. Let's change the topic to other expensive, to some over the top expensive things, like $7-8K bicycle frames. If I chose to trade in my 2 Kirks and a Peg for one Meivici or custom Parlee for instance. That could be a decision that many would disagree with (and I wouldn't ever do) but its still not something that should open me or anyone else up to strangers passing public judgment on character.
vaxn8r
02-27-2008, 09:29 PM
I don't know what's funnier - The dismal urban backdrop or the guys posing in front of it.
The third guy from the right - It looks like he's wearing one of those white leather ties from the early '80s, blown up to clown size.
p.s. I wear black socks all the time. They match my Sidis.
p.p.s. And everyone knows helmets should be white.
I like the matching Rapha water bottles....the best part of the team pose. But are those bottles plastic? Whoa...I woulda thought some type of leather drinking horn:
coylifut
02-27-2008, 10:05 PM
I don't know what's funnier - The dismal urban backdrop or the guys posing in front of it.
The third guy from the right - It looks like he's wearing one of those white leather ties from the early '80s, blown up to clown size.
p.s. I wear black socks all the time. They match my Sidis.
p.p.s. And everyone knows helmets should be white.
and the guy next to him on the left is none other than Ira Ryan, who's not a bad bloke at all. most of those guys are known to me and if you met 'em you'd like 'em too. they are all solid riders and at least two of them would have to be described as outstanding. the fact is they are far more than the clothes they represent. all they really are is a group of guys living out their cycling fantasies on the road. does that make them any different than the rest of us?
erector
02-27-2008, 10:33 PM
I would just like to say that I have definitely learned a lot from the multiple points of view here, some things kinda went off there a little bit, I do like that swedish girl, black socks do match sidis, my girlfriend hasn't given you her number, but the most important thing, the question about the Rapha I think was answered.
I still don't like the idea of throwing down big money on a product that comes from an area known for its lack of quality standards. Part of the reason why I posted this question to all of you IS because this forum is comprised of riders who really do appreciate quality (serottas, pegs, good riding, good coffee, etc). As mentioned in earier threads, if Serotta were to outsource to China, and still charge the same price for a Meivici, Cain would be raised.
That being said, I do admit to jumping the gun on the "made in china" label. It is entirely possible that the jersey I bought will be fine, ride for years, fit great, and all that. We'll just have to wait and see. I do HOPE that it does (because I already bought the jersey), and the price of the jersey does warrant a certain expectation of quality and performance, but if it doesn't, my issue should not be with China, it should be with Rapha.
I can't believe someone said that working kids benefit a family... that's true, they do help a family, in a very insignificant way and in te very short run. Kids are meant to play and climb trees and learn how to ride bicycles and read and go to school and get in trouble and play with animals and get sick and all those kid things... work is not one of them. Yes I am biased, I am a teacher, but I can think of few things worse than depriving a child of his or her childhood.
for all of you that posted, THANK YOU - a forum is only as good as its members, and discussions are only interesting if there's conflicting points of view, but we all love bicycles and in the end, that's all that matters
saab2000
02-27-2008, 10:36 PM
I can't believe someone said that working kids benefit a family... that's true, they do help a family, in a very insignificant way and in te very short run. Kids are meant to play and climb trees and learn how to ride bicycles and read and go to school and get in trouble and play with animals and get sick and all those kid things... work is not one of them. Yes I am biased, I am a teacher, but I can think of few things worse than depriving a child of his or her childhood.
+1 and then ad infinitum. I am also aghast at the suggestion.
scrooge
02-27-2008, 11:31 PM
I didn't read past the first two pages of this thread...but did get curious about Ibex. Until I saw this (shudder).
At first I thought they were advertising their wool underlayer.
i really don't care if my stuff is made my nice puppies in chinese slave camps. if i moralized over every purchase i'd never leave the house. its a dark world and i help finance it. that's a separate conversation.
my rapha gilet (sic) looks really cool. i like the website lots. its too long. the fabric doesn't breathe. the white stripe won't come clean down at the base of the zipper. the zipper is too small. there is no fleece in the collar. it only zips from one direction. even though i hand washed it the black started fading after a month. and it is a much lower quality product that what is promised by the website. the fabric isn't special.
i had a cheap vest from pi last three years before it faded the slightest bit. the zipper was more functional. the collar had a touch of fleece and it breathed.. yet was light and at the same time .. perfect for vest days.
i want to love rapha... i do love the marketing. if it were at 1/2 the cost i would say its fantastic.. but for the price it pulls up way too short and when i see it i associate it with poo and freds. at the same time.
i love the catalogue. its all cool til you shell out all those sheckles and the quality is uneven. the softshell is pretty perfect but for the zipper being off center and the cut being too long in medium.
i'll only buy this stuff grey market from here on in.
doesn't mean you won't love it. .. shoot.. i hate pickles... so all this is from a guy that hates pickled foods. buy some and see what you think-mo. you've got cash to burn, right?
For me the problem would be the sense that perhaps they lack a certain integrity in supplying a product that comes up so short. Marketing is necessary, but it should be about conveying a promise about the product. If the garment is so poor then the promise hasn't been kept.
Such a young company won't know what works and what doesn't. They must be relying upon advice from manufacturers who also make stuff for other brands, I assume. I don't know, but was Assos charging top dollar when it first started out?
saab2000
02-28-2008, 06:10 AM
I don't know, but was Assos charging top dollar when it first started out?
Yeah, Assos has always been outrageous in the US. I first saw it in 1986 and a pair of their shorts was significantly more than Giordana, which is what we used at that time.
When in Switzerland I ended up with some Assos stuff from my racing club. It was much more average level stuff and the price was more normal too. Good stuff though. I still have some of it and feel good about how long it's lasted.
Too Tall
02-28-2008, 06:16 AM
. . . if I spend $250 sheckels on a pair of Iso-Toner rejects?
BBD
Quite possibly....depends on what else they wear.
BumbleBeeDave
02-28-2008, 06:32 AM
Your later response to e-richie comes off to me though as still inferring that those who do wear $250 iso-toners do so only to try to be cool. If I'm wrong mea culpa. But if I'm not, so what?
We ALL make value judgments every day about things, about people, about viewpoints that differ from our own. And most will differ from our own, because our value judgments are formed through a lifetime of experiences, and noone has had my lifetime of experiences except me.
I'm not going to judge someone to be a bad person if they want to spend $250 on a pair of gloves. I just think it's silly, based on my life experience. If someone wants to express themselves that way, they can go for it. If I could afford $250 gloves without batting an eye, then I might go for it, too. But I can't. Most people can't. When something costs that much it inevitably starts to say something other than "I wanted a good pair of gloves." That doesn't mean it says something bad. But it does say something. But that same reasoning could be applied to everyone here--I'm sure non-cyclists wonder why we pedal around in "funny" clothes and do the things any of us do! ;)
BBD
e-RICHIE
02-28-2008, 06:45 AM
But I can't. Most people can't.
BBD
yes you can -
just three more little posts atmo!
Will Serotta be handing out a prize to the first 10k poster?
davids
02-28-2008, 06:58 AM
and the guy next to him on the left is none other than Ira Ryan, who's not a bad bloke at all. most of those guys are known to me and if you met 'em you'd like 'em too. they are all solid riders and at least two of them would have to be described as outstanding. the fact is they are far more than the clothes they represent. all they really are is a group of guys living out their cycling fantasies on the road. does that make them any different than the rest of us?I hope you don't think I really take this seriously! My comments were motivated as much by the "black sock" thing as anything else. It's good natured banter, atmo.
I'm sure they're good guys, and good riders. And if some clothing company actually thought that I could help them sell some clothes by appearing in them, I'm pretty sure I'd be flattered enough to do it. Even if they posed me in front of some railroad yard in a skinsuit...
Too Tall
02-28-2008, 07:09 AM
Dave' SteveP owes me $249.99 for services rendered he is going to send you a check. Please buy the gloves guilt free, gazaye geshundt....Mr. 10K. :)
BUTCH RIDES
02-28-2008, 08:00 AM
Hello I like to look nice when I ride my bicycle . For a sporty look I wear white trousers and a nice dress shirt with a matching tie . Women like a dashing well dressed man
92degrees
02-28-2008, 08:08 AM
For me the problem would be the sense that perhaps they lack a certain integrity in supplying a product that comes up so short. Marketing is necessary, but it should be about conveying a promise about the product. If the garment is so poor then the promise hasn't been kept.
If true, then their "marketing" will only serve to hasten their demise.
Advertising stimulates the sales of a good product and accelerates the destruction of a bad product. To make a claim which the product does not possess merely increases the frequency with which the customer observes its absence. ATMO (actually Rosser Reevesmo)
MilanoTom
02-28-2008, 08:13 AM
I like the matching Rapha water bottles....the best part of the team pose. But are those bottles plastic? Whoa...I woulda thought some type of leather drinking horn:
They're rhino horn, hand carved by 4 year old Vietnamese children (the only ones with fingers tiny enough to get all the way into the horn). You'll be the only one in town with them, so you'll be the coolest. Don't forget the added bonus of knowing that the kiddies' families benefit from having them work.
Tom
jsfoster
02-28-2008, 08:14 AM
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/images/Sweden/CresAd3L.jpg
isn't that a full Campy set :-)
-jf
johnnymossville
02-28-2008, 08:46 AM
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/images/Sweden/CresAd3L.jpg
isn't that a full Campy set :-)
-jf
She is something isn't she. Forget Rapha, I came back to this thread to take another look at her.
roman meal
02-28-2008, 09:14 AM
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/persuaders/interviews/rapaille.html
Volvo? Safety. A steel roll cage womb.
Campagnolo? Technology and emotion.
Pucci? Your father's Oldsmobile.
majorpat
02-28-2008, 09:15 AM
Gloves are for sissies anyway...
roman meal
02-28-2008, 09:20 AM
They appeal to the logic of emotion.
Right. This is the connection between the limbic and the reptilian, what I call the logic of emotion, which is how the emotions deal with the urges, the instincts, the needs we have. One example I can think [of] is seduction. I was lucky to study seduction in eight cultures for L'Oréal. I couldn't believe I was paid to do that. It was fantastic.
Now, seduction is like there are numbers on the doors, and you have to punch the numbers to open the doors. Even if you know the numbers, if you don't know the proper order of these numbers, you're not going to open the door. Well, that's seduction. There are things that you can do, and the code is different from one culture to another. You know, if you start with A and A is fine, you can go to B and B is fine; you can go to C, C is fine. But in another culture, if you start with A, they think you're dumb. You can start directly with D, but then you have to go to A. So [it's] the order of things, what can you do, and that can be as simple as when can you hold the hand of the girl or when can the girl tell you, "Come pick me up," or things that people are supposed to say or not to do.
There is an order, and it's different in Japan; it's different in France; it's different in America; it's different in South America. That's what you have to understand. If you try to sell a product or service, not understanding this proper order, this logic of emotion, you turn people off. They say, "These people are ridiculous." And I have to say that many, many American companies make these kind of mistakes, because they don't understand. They think that oh, our logic of emotions should be universal; everybody should feel this way. And they don't.
e-RICHIE
02-28-2008, 09:25 AM
One example I can think [of] is seduction. I was lucky to study seduction in eight cultures for L'Oréal. I couldn't believe I was paid to do that. It was fantastic.
i studied seduction in chester atmo.
it was fantasticomo.
because i'm worth it.
roman meal
02-28-2008, 09:32 AM
i studied seduction in chester atmo.
it was fantasticomo.
because i'm worth it.
"Connecticut Jzwrly studies the art of seduction in Episcoville"
"e-richie: Tell us, how do you know she has achieved the climax?"
"she dropped her nail file"
e-RICHIE
02-28-2008, 09:33 AM
"A Connecticut *** studies the art of seduction in Episcoville"
"e-richie: Tell us, how do you know she has achieved the climax?"
"she dropped her nail file"
my favorite position is facing bloomingdales atmo.
rwsaunders
02-28-2008, 09:48 AM
Volvo? Safety. A steel roll cage womb.
Stolen from Tom and Ray on Car Talk. "Are Volvo's really safe to drive, or is it just that the people who drive them are safe drivers?"
rdparadise
02-28-2008, 03:05 PM
Along the same lines as the Rapha gear, I bought my wife a pair of Ugg's from Australia. I open the box to look at them and it says, "MADE IN CHINA." :crap: How do you like them apples. Just another marketing plow by some american company.
Bob
paczki
02-28-2008, 03:26 PM
Somehow this seems appropriate. Today's "Worst of Craigslist" from Bikesnob. The first part is a real ad. How does he do it day after day?
Sheriff of Nottingham's Daughter - m4w (Chelsea) [original URL: http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/mis/585761901.html]
Reply to: [deleted]
Date: 2008-02-24, 11:53PM EST
I was walking West on 23rd Saturday night with my weary Portuguese friend with an empty propane tank on the front rack of my Swedish military bike.
You were charming and on a hopeless search for wine with your friend.
Anyway, I realized we rudely neglected to invite you both to the BBQ when it gets warmer.
“If you couldn’t tell from reading my post, every single aspect of my life is contrived and pretentious. In addition to having a weary Portuguese friend and a Swedish military bike, I prepare my coffee in a French press, relieve myself in a Turkish toilet, wear a West Papuan penis gourd in warm weather, and have an unpronounceable sexually transmitted disease with an indeterminate country of origin. Because having a Portuguese friend is not as charming and whimsical as having a weary Portuguese friend, I make sure he stays weary by arranging inconveniently early dim sum breakfasts, challenging him to regular squash games, and placing phone calls to him in the middle of the night. I do hope you will attend our BBQ this summer, which promises to be well-attended by weary people of various nationalities, all wearing penis gourds, sipping mojitos, and discussing the arts, exotic locales, and vital issues of the day.” :banana:
johnnymossville
02-28-2008, 03:42 PM
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/images/Sweden/CresAd3L.jpg
isn't that a full Campy set :-)
-jf
ok, I came back one more time to take a look,... notice her position on the bike and how it perfectly accentuates her form. I'll take that 1970's ad pitch any day over the 21st century soft-sell (be part of the fraternity of rapha) way. I'm such a sucker for good advertising. By the way, the Rapha stuff is cool, though I already said that.
continue,...
fiamme red
02-28-2008, 03:49 PM
ok, I came back one more time to take a look,... notice her position on the bike and how it perfectly accentuates her form. I'll take that 1970's ad pitch any day over the 21st century soft-sell (be part of the fraternity of rapha) way. I'm such a sucker for good advertising. By the way, the Rapha stuff is cool, though I already said that.
continue,...Since you like that ad so much, here it is a little larger.
http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Ads/CrescentGirl_1974.jpg
fiamme red
02-28-2008, 03:52 PM
http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Ads/MelPinto.jpg
ClutchCargo
02-28-2008, 03:54 PM
I don't know . . .
p.s. I wear black socks all the time. They match my Sidis.
p.p.s. And everyone knows helmets should be white.
A white helmet? Mebbe on the road, but
not in the woods where I mountain bike; :no:
looks too much like deer's tail !!!
julia
02-28-2008, 03:56 PM
Since you like that ad so much, here it is a little larger.
http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Ads/CrescentGirl_1974.jpg
is that outfit a skort and can i get it in wool
3chordwonder
02-28-2008, 04:55 PM
I am shortsighted, a larger version of that ad please.
Blue Jays
02-28-2008, 05:18 PM
I like the references to "Cologna, Ridiga, and Cennelli" plus a few others I can't recall. :D
saab2000
02-28-2008, 05:43 PM
Gloves are for sissies anyway...
Sean Kelly wore gloves I think. And not Rapha gloves.
capybaras
02-28-2008, 07:29 PM
quite the tushmo atmo.
is that the opposing team in the jeans - i hope.
if not - pls ignore.
that leg is could use a couple of passes with the shaving kit :banana:
e-RICHIE
02-28-2008, 07:36 PM
that leg is could use a couple of passes with the shaving kit :banana:
portland is hotmo atmo.
Fixed
02-28-2008, 07:47 PM
bro http://www.rapha.cc/index.php?page=169
by me
e-RICHIE
02-28-2008, 07:52 PM
bro http://www.rapha.cc/index.php?page=169
by me
"The Brown version of the FIXED. Shorts has discrete
tweed detailing inside the pockets, fly and cuff adjusters."
well - i already knew thatmo.
Fixed
02-28-2008, 07:54 PM
i bet they are nice
cheers :beer:
capybaras
02-28-2008, 07:55 PM
portland is hotmo atmo.
that's a manmo
coylifut
02-28-2008, 10:16 PM
bro http://www.rapha.cc/index.php?page=169
by me
if you want to fit in while in P-Town, you'll want these http://www.chromebags.com/products/apparel/show/44/
davids
02-29-2008, 10:07 AM
A white helmet? Mebbe on the road, but
not in the woods where I mountain bike; :no:
looks too much like deer's tail !!!This is my mountain biking outfit:
http://z.about.com/d/familycrafts/1/0/Y/k/1/deerrevenge.jpg
Confuses the hunters.
majorpat
02-29-2008, 10:17 AM
Sean Kelly wore gloves I think. And not Rapha gloves.
There goes my theory...Kelly is tougher than chicken lips.
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