Wet weather tires?

[bcm119]

I'm building up a rain bike in anticipation of my first Oregon winter, in which I expect to ride in wet conditions almost daily.

I'm considering Conti GP 4-seasons in 25c. Any experiences with these? I'm also considering Michelin Carbons in 25c, these seem to have decent wet grip too. Puncture resistance is a high priority, weight is a non-issue.

Other ideas?

[Matt Barkley]

Whatever tire you use - I would recommend Mr-Tuffys - Orange if you are in the 25-23mm range. I still like Veloflex Pave 22mm with the Tuffys for rain/wet/ They grip way better than anything else besides nice tubulars in the wet. - Matt

[vaxn8r]

I don't worry about it anymore so whatever I have on the bike is what goes. I used to put heavier, flat-resistant, 25c tires on in winter but have stopped doing so. I found I flatted just as often (which wasn't very often anyway), and it wasn't all that fun to ride the beasts.

I use a variety of tires all season, Veredsteins, Michelins, Conti's. I think I like the Michi's the best.

[froze]

Wet weather tires using Pave and Mr Tuffys? Interesting, but they won't work! The Tuffys are really not as effective as the Spin Skins-but they are cheaper however heavier. The Pave's are too skinny of a tire to use in rain, they are more of a racing/training tire. Conti makes a tire called the 4 Seasons that is about as close as you can come to an all weather tire for a road bike-if there is such a thing. But in wet weather things like glass can stick to a tire and rotate with it until it either penetrates the tire or gets flung off, must of the time it penetrates. The Specialize Armadillo is the best flat resistent tire on the market, and they work well enough in the rain. And the wider 25, 26, and 28's sizes work better in the rain, but they also work better when not raining because they have less a tendancy to follow grooves, ruts, edges of pavement etc that the 23's do.

So actually BCM your instincts are correct. The Conti 4 Seasons or the Spec Armadillos in a size 25 are good choices. I use a 4 Seasons on the front and a Armadillo on the rear currently; since I moved away from the Mojave desert and the goathead problem I don't need quite the flat protection I use to. But if flats are your biggest concern, nothing beats the Armadillo; it is though about 150grms heavier then the 4 Seasons. By the way, the Armadillo is so stout you can easily get away with using an ultralight 65grm tube. Also do not inflate to max psi in wet conditions, depending on your weight, about 90 in the rear and 80 in the front should be plenty for weight ranges between 165 and 175.

[coylifut]

As a fellow Oregonian, I can say don't pay the extra $ for the GP 4 season when you can get the Ultra Gator Skins for $28 at biketiresdirect.com They are located in P-town so you can p/u will call and avoid the shipping. The Gators ride good enough. The dillos are another good choice, but I'm one of those who just can't stand the ride quality. With that said, I'm on my second set on the fixe. I once pulled out a bent over razor blade that went into the tire, but was unable to puncture the casing.

[Matt Barkley]

Can't speak for the Conti 4s but the Armidillos are are harder and don't stick to dry OR WET pavement. I ride in the rain and gravel - on the Paves because they stick to the road better than any clincher I have come accross and they are comfortable offering a superb ride. Alone they are not durable enough - with Tuffys they are very durable. Before this combo-discovery I was experiencing what Vaxn8r said. Everything flatted - wider, heavier, wet-weather marketed, etc.

Queston: These "Spin Skins" are those single use light super thin puncture protectors, no? I think I have seen them in shops, but can't imagine they would be as durable (and not re-usable) as Tuffys? I don't know - just curious. :)

[NateM]

I have been using The Ruffy Tuffy 28's from Rivendell with a black Spinskin liner(cheaper of the 2).I ride year round in and out of NYC.The ride quality of this setup is hard to beat and no flats. The Spinskins are fairly expensive and only last a season but they are next to invisible in effecting the ride.I have been using a Mr Tuffy liner this summer on the rear and notice the difference in road feedback, its a little harsher.No flats though.I use 95lbs pressure in the rear,90 front. IMHO the Armidillos are like truck tires,nasty.

[Orin]

Disagree about Ruffy-Tuffys, especially if you weigh around 150lbs. YMMV if you weigh more...

I found their wet grip to be poor compared to the Performance Forte (700x26) that I had before, especially on wet metal. Yes, I know wet metal is particularly slick, but I had to slow and get the bike upright crossing metal strips that I'd previously ignored.

I found them harsh if I put 100psi in them and soggy (I always felt like I was having a bad day) with 90psi. I put some Michelin Hilite Supercomps on and the bike was transformed... lively when it was soggy before. More comfortable over 100 psi.

I ended up trading them for some Michelins with someone on the I-Bob list.

Orin.

[gasman]

I also don't worry about what I run in the rain any more. I have used the armadillos only on my commuter bike because I don't want to flat but the ride is really harsh and the Gatorskins in 25 are much more comfortable. I used dillos on my rain bike for a season but got tired of feeling beat up afterwards. I just use whatever I am riding at the time, cirrently Spec S-works 23s.

[bcm119]

I'm also an ex-Armadillo user, I just gave them away after a few weeks, felt like they were filled with sand or something. Even commuting I couldn't stand them.

The gatorskins do seem like a good deal at $28. But I'm tempted by the 4-seasons, they seem pretty light and supple for a winter tire. We'll see, maybe I'll just take Gas and Vax's advice and not worry about it. I hate harsh tires.

Thanks for the replies.

[Marron]

The GP 4's are my current favorites. I don't know whether it's luck or the tires, but I've yet to have a flat on the two pairs I'm currently running. In fact, they seem to be more flat resistant than the heavier and cheaper Gatorskins that I've tried in the past.

They also have decent traction in the wet. I've had a number of opportunities to put that to the test in the past few weeks as we're having an unseasonablely rainy late summer here in the Northwest.

[froze]

Can't speak for the Conti 4s but the Armidillos are are harder and don't stick to dry OR WET pavement.
Queston: These "Spin Skins" are those single use light super thin puncture protectors, no? I think I have seen them in shops, but can't imagine they would be as durable (and not re-usable) as Tuffys? I don't know - just curious. :)

What do you have against Armadillos? Your the only person that I have ever read on this or 3 other forums...and were talking literally hundreds of users, who ever complained about the Armadillos other then the harsher ride. I've been using these tires now for 4 years and over 15,000 miles, both in rain, dry, gravel, even coming out of steep windy mountain roads of California and never had an issue with handling. Are they racing tires? no, but that's not what they are intended to be use for. Although I personally know one of the racer's that ran the RAAM race and their team used Armadillos and they won their class (not saying the tires were the factor, their logic was if they didn't have to stop for flats the heavier tires would be worth it; did it work? they don't know how many flats they would have gotten without them, but got no flats with them).

The SpinSkin question is something that a guy at an LBS said to me, so I'm not sure if it's true since I have yet to use them. I have used the Mr Tuffys and did have goatheads and pieces of steel penetrate them; the LBS guy claimed that the SpinSkins can resist sharp pointed objects better (he was from Colorado where goatheads are also common, and found the Tuffys couldnt' handle them-but the Armadillo and the SpinSkins (uses in a lighter tire not in the Armadillo) could). SpinSkins come in two flavors, one is a 25grm strip that cost $45 and has to be replaced when the tire is replaced-that can be an expensive tire change; the other weighs 45grms and cost $25 and can be moved to another tire, but then after that it's suppose to be replaced. But riding with the Armadillos you don't need a tire liner or a heavy thorn proof tube or that crappy Slime tube that doesn't seal leaks above 60-65PSI.

[bfd]

A friend of mine recently mounted a set on his bike. I doubt he has more than 100 miles when he flatted and found the spin skin thing had shreaded! What a rip off, especially for what they charge for those things! STAY AWAY!!!

As for wet weather tires, I've never had problems with Michelin supercomp or Avocet fasgrip (now Carbon 12) 700x25. Both are slicks with carbon black tread.

[Matt Barkley]

Froze - A couple others chimed in here on this very thread not liking the Armidillos. I really think they are a hard plastic ride and don't grip well at all rain or shine. No big deal. Just don't like 'em. I do admit to being an avid tire critic. I just want nice riding, straight, well made (good quality cointrol)tires! :beer:

I may have to check out these spin-skins. Mr.Tuffys do affect the ride a bit - but with really nice tires and trimming the overlap I still get a great quality and durable ride. :) - Matt

[Too Tall]

I'd shy away from the Carbon's. They are way too durable to be superior in rain although that is what we used on PBP BECAUSE they are so tough. Curiously I've had darn near (knocking on every wood object I can find) perfect luck with good old Veredestine Race for commuting. Excellent balance of wear/rain grip/toughness.

[froze]

As for wet weather tires, I've never had problems with Michelin supercomp or Avocet fasgrip (now Carbon 12) 700x25. Both are slicks with carbon black tread.

BFD; how are those Avocet's today? I use to ride on Fasgrip's probably 12 years ago and thought the rolling resistence was a lot higher then the Specialize Turbo I replaced-but that was obviously before the Carbon 12. I know that Jobst Brandt thinks that the Avocet is the only tire to even consider!

[shinomaster]

My foul weather friend. Trust me. I think the issue here is not flat prevention but rather slick, slimy road slipperiness. The road here can be very slippery in the winter. And not just from water. Unlike the rest of the world our cool, damp winters form a road slime on certain roads. I'm not sure if it's baby moss, or algae, or what, but it's organic and can grow on certain roads and it's VERY slippery.
I bought Michelin Axial pro winter tires a while back and they were terrible in these conditions. They are slick. On a climb up to Mt. Tabor a local park on a local Volcano ( small Volcano)...(extinct)...( or so they say) I was riding up the steep climb standing and my rear wheel began to fish tail, as if on ice. ROAD slime!! You wont find it on major roads with lots of traffic, but rather shaded street in the country or in parks. Watch out!
I think a tire with a tread like a Ritchey or a Rubino Pro would grip better. Just buy cheap tire with a tread and you should be fine. :banana: :banana: :banana:

[bfd]

Froze asks:

<how are those Avocet's today? I use to ride on Fasgrip's probably 12 years ago and thought the rolling resistence was a lot higher then the Specialize Turbo I replaced-but that was obviously before the Carbon 12. I know that Jobst Brandt thinks that the Avocet is the only tire to even consider!>

So far so good! The new all-black Carbon 12 model is made in Korea instead of Japan. I probably have 1000 miles on the Carbon 12, its mounted on the front, and it rolls as nice as the my old-stock Fasgrip Road 30 mounted on the rear. It hasn't really seen wet weather yet, but I have gone over wet roads and didn't seem to have any problems. I really like the way these tires ride, very, very comfortable.