Couer d'Acier test ride

[Ken Robb]

Went for a short ride on what shop had labeled 61cm with 9spd Dura Ace, Ksyriums w/o scalloped rims, O2 fork. Well it was really a 59cm with a lower stem than I have on our 58cm CSi so too small for my preferred bars -and -saddle -even position.
It felt light and quick steering without being twitchy and everything worked fine. I thought the ride was pretty harsh and buzzy over coarse pavement compared to our CSi and especially my Rivendells with longer chainstays. The front and backend felt just the same which probably helps handling precision.
I'm still hoping to find a 61cm Serotta to ride because our 58 CSi is so promising though undersized for me.

[Trouble]

Went for a short ride on what shop had labeled 61cm with 9spd Dura Ace, Ksyriums w/o scalloped rims, O2 fork. Well it was really a 59cm with a lower stem than I have on our 58cm CSi so too small for my preferred bars -and -saddle -even position.
It felt light and quick steering without being twitchy and everything worked fine. I thought the ride was pretty harsh and buzzy over coarse pavement compared to our CSi and especially my Rivendells with longer chainstays. The front and backend felt just the same which probably helps handling precision.
I'm still hoping to find a 61cm Serotta to ride because our 58 CSi is so promising though undersized for me.

Really, that big of a difference in ride quality between a CSi and a CDA?
I'm thinking seriously about getting a CDA. :confused:

[Ken Robb]

Really, that big of a difference in ride quality between a CSi and a CDA?
I'm thinking seriously about getting a CDA. :confused:
the difference was probably mostly due to the Ksyriums w/700x23 vs. open pros w/700x25 tires. Assuming that is so I don't think the carbon stays made a significant difference in "damping vibrations" over steel or titanium stays so I would get a CIII designed for the ride I want. My Legend w/Ksyriums and 700x23 is only slightly buzzier than the CSi w/700x25. I bought it used so I'm not sure what the design parameters were as to ride but the geometry is stock 2002 and the fork is O2. Seatpost is also carbon and the bottom end does NOT flex noticeably.

[Climb01742]

in my experience, K's can make any frame feel buzzier and more harsh.

[Trouble]

Maybe it's all in my head, but I recently put a carbon seat post on my Zurich and it feels great.
So, the carbon seat stays aren't all that?
Maybe just put a carbon post on a steel Serotta?
Is the CSi ride quality, performance (acceleration, cornering) that much better than a CIII?
Not that weight is a huge issue, but...CSi vs CIII?

[dave thompson]

Ken: As I recall, you're a bigger guy. I think the "butt" muscle memory of your Riv and CSI with the bigger tires at lower pressure most likely 'colored' your experience a bit. As others have said, the 'K wheels with smaller tires at higher pressures are going to significantly increase the ride harshness.

[Ken Robb]

my point is that carbon stays didn't offset the wheels/tires so why bother?
I doubt that anyone could tell the diffeence in ride between Clll and Csi if they were designed for the same ride.

[93legendti]

in my experience, K's can make any frame feel buzzier and more harsh.


I think this may depend upon your tire choice, width and pressure, not to mention road surfaces (our Michigan roads our terrible!). I have 3 sets of clincher K's, (each version) and none of them make my bikes feel buzzier or harsher than when I use my Speedreams, American Classic 420's or American Classic 350's --and I would not describe those wheels as making my bikes feel buzzier and more harsh. I would pick any of these wheels for a century or a week long bike trip.

[Kevin]

I have given up on my Ks. They have a very harsh ride and have been relegated to the trainer.

Kevin

[93legendti]

Before they get ruined on your trainer, I might take them depending on their age/use and model.

[OilyFish]

When I first rode my CIII it was with K's.

I was very dissapionred, especially on a maiden ride.

I have since replaced said K's with Heliums and hand built open pros on occassion and enjoyed the ride far more. (Same tires and pressure BTW.)

Now, I'm a clincher all the way, so apologies to the august Dugast community.

Whilst I love my CIII - love my Legend more.

LimeBalls.

[Climb01742]

it's amazing how much wheels can impact a frame's ride. sometimes i think builders should spec the wheels too. :rolleyes:

[93legendti]

I have given up on my Ks. They have a very harsh ride and have been relegated to the trainer.

Kevin

Which tires, size and air pressure did you use w/ your K's?

[LH2]

Carbon stays on a steel frame are pointless IMHO, unless all you're after is style points. Weight savings is negligible also.

Save your money, keep it simple and keep the frame more repairable and get the CIII.

So much more of "ride quality" is not carbon versus steel stays as much as the tires, wheels, and contact points with the bicycle.

[Ken Robb]

Conti GP 3000 700x23 at 105 psi on my Legend. Don't know what the dealer put in the 700x23 n the CdA but ,really, who cares? If the Carbon stays make less difference than I can get within normal tire pressures why bother except, as stated above, for style points. Now I am still alert for a H'ors cat. I put a lot of miles on one that I had on loan for a week and there was no doubt as to the efficacy of the DKS rear end and it was byond what I could get by adjusting tire pressure. I thought it less than beautiful to look at however. It was too small for me to buy.

[93legendti]

Hmm, guess the K's aren't for you...

[Ken Robb]

maybe not but I thought we were really discusing the value of carbon stays on a steel bike(Clll). The Ks came with my new/old Legend and my test is ongoing. Open Pros on good hubs work very well for me.

[93legendti]

sorry for the distraction/diversion

[gt6267a]

it sounds like you really need to take out the Couer d'Acier with the same wheels as the other bikes. test ride them all with the same set of k's or same set of open pros. changes in tire width, tire pressure, and wheels create too many variables.

for example:
a few years ago, i bought a lemond zurich. my initial thought was, "this thing rides like my cannondale." it came with rolf vector comps wheels. i picked up a set of open pro and switched over the tires. without question the ride was much smoother and nicer.

[Kevin]

Which tires, size and air pressure did you use w/ your K's?

Corsca, 700 x 25, 105 psi. The wheels themselves are SSC SLs. They have a very harsh ride. Do not buy them.

Kevin

[93legendti]

Too late, I have a 2002 and 2004 set. Love them. My 155 lbs must be enough to smooth out the harshness.

[Climb01742]

my guess is, Ks are kinda like vanilla and chocolate ice cream. they have a distinctive ride. i'm discovering that there are stiffer wheels and flexier wheels. for me, Ks fall into the stiffer camp, as do other, high profile rims. whereas low profile rims, like OPs, have, for me, a softer, slightly flexier ride. ben serotta helped me understand that a frame can be seen as two halves...top and bottom. some folks like a stiffer lower half of the frame, and stiffer wheels aid this. while some (like me) like a flexier lower half, and low profile rims aid this. when i was having issues with my ottrott being too stiff, ben asked what wheels i was using...Ks. he said that was part of what i was feeling...and not liking.

i don't think Ks are right or wrong...good or bad...they just are what they are. it's cool that 93legend digs their ride. me, not so much. vanilla/chocolate, eh? :beer:

[93legendti]

Now that is interesting. I like my bikes rock solid in the BB/down tube/chain stay area, with some give in the seat stays. I guess that explains why the K's feel nice too me...go figure!! I was scratching my head yesterday trying to understand how people could think the K's were so harsh..now I understand...

[dirtdigger88]

Yo 93Legend-

I too am a member of the "Not so fond of K's" camp. I do think they are a great wheel set for their intended purpose- Light and Stiff- RACING but that is not always what people want. I have gone back and forth with my K's and Open Pros and now the DT's- I still think that a 32 spoke wheel set is more to my liking. And yes- I have the same tires on each and run the same air pressure. There is just a harshness to the ride of my Legend with the K's on. Now- when I stand up and power up a hill- I love the K's- that is where they shine. Interesting note- I acutally like the K's on my steel frames Lemond. Maybe you are on to something about the bottom of the bike being stiff or not. With some wheels I "feel" like the BB area of my Lemond is wiggling all over the place- slap on the K's and it "feels" like it diminishes.
Then again- maybe I am just crazy

Jason

[93legendti]

You're not crazy. :)

[dirtdigger88]

You're not crazy. :)

I think that is the first time you have said something nice about me in almost a year :) I am touched :p and I don't mean in the head

Jason

[93legendti]

I have said mean things to you? If so, I am so sorry!!

[dirtdigger88]

nothing mean- we just seem to disagree more than we agree. Of course- my wife tends to disagree with me all the time too- no worries

Jason

[93legendti]

Cool. :)

[Jack Brunk]

Dollar for dollar the CDA is the best frame Serotta makes. It has a very smooth ride and the perfect flex when climbing out of the saddle. Right now it's my favorite Serotta ride.


Jack

[bikedadjc]

How come I can ride 25-100 or more miles and feel fresh when i get done? How come the Carbon stay adds more vertical compliance then regular seatstays? How comes in almost 2 years i've had no issues with the Carbon stay? Sounds like Ben Serotta is doing something right to me. I guess the oh, it does Nothing guy, needs to be educated by someone at Serotta, So He understands that the Carbon Stay does a lot more than Nothing. :butt:

[Big Dan]

I'll keep my CIII, you keep the CDA and the carbon bits...we'll see in 10 years who made out better............. :D

Steel is real...I mean all steel...... :p

[93legendti]

How come I can ride 25-100 or more miles and feel fresh when i get done? How come the Carbon stay adds more vertical compliance then regular seatstays? How comes in almost 2 years i've had no issues with the Carbon stay? Sounds like Ben Serotta is doing something right to me. I guess the oh, it does Nothing guy, needs to be educated by someone at Serotta, So He understands that the Carbon Stay does a lot more than Nothing. :butt:

Of couse the carbon stays do "something". I remember when most forks were aluminum and now they are carbon -- for the same reason.

I had a friend who always used to put down my OCLV as "plastic". After Lance's 1999 TDF win, he bought an OCLV and the next year added a C-40. You see, until he rode carbon, he was very quick to discount it...

[Big Dan]

I know something else the carbon stays do...raise the price.... :D