A PT question for TT?

[Spicoli]

Hey TT,
You strike me as a bit of a power training guru? Silly question in rergards to Norm or Avg. power and training zones. If using Coggans zones, which do you base your FTP and following zones on, "Norm" or "Avg." after testing? They are very close so it does not really matter much but I was sorta curious which Coggan says to use if there was a bigger difference due course used to test on. I cannot find the answer to this if there is one.

Thnx, in advance, Spicoli

[Too Tall]

Hey TT,
You strike me as a bit of a power training guru? Silly question in rergards to Norm or Avg. power and training zones. If using Coggans zones, which do you base your FTP and following zones on, "Norm" or "Avg." after testing? They are very close so it does not really matter much but I was sorta curious which Coggan says to use if there was a bigger difference due course used to test on. I cannot find the answer to this if there is one.

Thnx, in advance, Spicoli


The real question is how to determine functional threshold?

This is a short list I use (below) and the answer to your question is I use N.P. "Normalized Power" from real events...my fav.:) Second would be a standardized test where I'd use avg. power. FWIIW Coggins defines "L4" as: Level 4 = 91-105% of threshold power , intensity factor = 0.95-1.05....but you knew that I was just proving what a know it all I am :rolleyes: Hey? Do I get a cookie?

1) from inspection of a ride file.
2) from power distribution profile from multiple rides.
3) from blood lactate measurements (better or worse, depending on how it
is done).
4) based on normalized power from a hard ~1 h race.
5) using critical power testing and analysis.
6) derived from the power that you can routinely generate during long intervals done in training.
7) from the average power during a ~1 h TT (the best predictor of
performance is performance itself).

[Climb01742]

(the best predictor of performance is performance itself).

sounds like a stickie to me. or as richie would say... TT-OPEDIA 1.0

[Spicoli]

Would you like a bag of Chips ahoy or the big tub of cookie dough from Costco to eat at your leisure?

My avg and norms have always been within 2-5 watts of each other but a teamate asked which to go by if there was a 10 watt difference. This I could not find an answer to. FYI all my testing protocols are straight from Coggan and Lims stuff. I cannot say how impressed I am with the info. and programs these guy's have put together! I have been racing bikes my whole life and only seriously devoted myself to power last fall and started my program the first of the year. My FTP is already up 35-40 watts and I have not even mixed in the hard parts of my program yet. Not bad for a sprinter type! No power coach, just applied all the training ideas I had my whole life and tied them together with the info from them (self coach) Big fan of no one knows you better than you if you've been doing this long enough. Awesome stuff, the part that really impresses me with power is not the efforts being hard but the recovery. I am recovering so much better between dose's of work. which is enabling me to do it over again and again. Hard rides hard and easy rides easy. COOL STUFF!

[Too Tall]

I can't take credit ClimbO...those might be Andy's words who btw was a local rider not so long ago. Agreed however, that's why I hate to test athletes until after we've been in a program for a while. I can usually find enough real life (recent) data.

Spicoli, deliver those cookies to me at Va Training Camp (hint hint hint) I've got a few spots left. Boy was that blatant or what?

[Spicoli]

I would love too join ya, but I spent all my money on Power taps :crap:

Does anyone else think its weird that the NE racing starts in a week? Off season no lonnger exists? I kinda like it!

[Too Tall]

It's the weather....man :) We've had a mild winter or whatever they call it now???

[zank]

I would love too join ya, but I spent all my money on Power taps :crap:

Does anyone else think its weird that the NE racing starts in a week? Off season no lonnger exists? I kinda like it!

Maybe the pre-season does. The real season starts in late August... :fight:

[Spicoli]

Maybe the pre-season does. The real season starts in late August... :fight:
Thats another one, whats with cross starting in August? Gotta get atleast 10 to 12 of those suckers in this year too! ;)

[asgelle]

Hey? Do I get a cookie?
Presenting someone else's work as your own does not earn you a cookie.

http://groups.google.com/group/wattage/browse_thread/thread/df47bc3a44cfefe2/e635fac39afac44b?lnk=gst&q=7+deadly+sins#e635fac39afac44b

[Ginger]

Presenting someone else's work as your own does not earn you a cookie.

http://groups.google.com/group/wattage/browse_thread/thread/df47bc3a44cfefe2/e635fac39afac44b?lnk=gst&q=7+deadly+sins#e635fac39afac44b
Fortunately he didn't. He even said so.

[asgelle]

Fortunately he didn't. He even said so.
He credited the performance quote (after the fact, maybe). There is no credit given for the 7 Deadly Sins (and the quote is incomplete).

[Ginger]

He credited the performance quote (after the fact, maybe). There is no credit given for the 7 Deadly Sins (and the quote is incomplete).


And, since you didn't complete your citation there...you're just as guilty.

:banana:

P.S. You know where the list came from originally, correct?

[asgelle]

P.S. You know where the list came from originally, correct?
I'm pretty sure I linked to the original post, and I don't know what could be a more complete citation than the live link.

[Ginger]

I'm pretty sure I linked to the original post, and I don't know what could be a more complete citation than the live link.

a link to a group that one needs to be a member of to view is not a complete citation. And are you sure that that's the first time it's appeared? You've always been particular and complete in your research... ?


And you know I'm yanking your chain. Right?

[asgelle]

And you know I'm yanking your chain. Right?
No I think you're someone who can't distinguish between a legitimate concern for respect of intellectual property and pedantry.






You know I'm just kidding, right.

[Spicoli]

This is why I tend to agree with Sandy :crap:

[Ginger]

No I think you're someone who can't distinguish between a legitimate concern for respect of intellectual property and pedantry.






You know I'm just kidding, right.

I could be wrong but I don't think you deal much with real intellectual property issues at all, but you talk a good game.

And, if you do, you know unless they have that list trademarked they haven't secured their intellectual property. And, posting it on an internet forum pretty much opens it to common use.


From our friends at Wikipedia (I know...weak source, but handy for this instance)
Intellectual property (IP) is a legal field that refers to creations of the mind such as musical, literary, and artistic works; inventions; and symbols, names, images, and designs used in commerce, including copyrights, trademarks, patents, and related rights. Under intellectual property law, the holder of one these abstract "properties" has certain exclusive rights to the creative work, commercial symbol, or invention which is covered by it.

...

Furthermore, due to the non-rivalrous nature of intellectual property, comparing the unauthorized use of intellectual property to the crime of theft presents its own unique problems. In common law, theft requires deprivation of the rightful owner of his or her rights to possess, use, or destroy property. Example: When Joe steals Jane's bicycle, Jane cannot use or have access to it. Since intellectual property (for example, ideas and various transcriptions into written words, audible sounds, or electronic media) are so easily reproduced, no such deprivation to the owner occurs. Example: When Joe makes a copy of the music Jane recorded, Jane is not denied access to her original copy. In this sense, many forms of intellectual property meet the non-rival test for public goods: the use of the good by one individual does not reduce the use of that good by others.

....

And I don't believe in the contrary view. :)

[asgelle]

I could be wrong but I don't think you deal much with real intellectual property issues at all, but you talk a good game.
You're wrong. And this is not a legal issue, it's an ethical one. Our friend Too Tall presented someone else's work as his own. I think that's wrong. Apparently you do not.

[Ginger]

You're wrong. And this is not a legal issue, it's an ethical one. Our friend Too Tall presented someone else's work as his own. I think that's wrong. Apparently you do not.

You should re read the post you have taken such offense at.
He says it's the list he USES

Doesn't say he created it.

Nor does any other power coach that I've seen use the same list. And I've seen that elsewhere without citation as well. Which is why I was curious as to why you found it so offensive that TT used it. If you're a regular of the power forums where coaches discuss this stuff, you would have seen others use it as well. Unless of course you have a personal issue with TT himself. Which is your problem, not mine.
:)
So, if the matter is that you think he's presenting others work as his own, I suspect you need to start taking offense at all information from just about all coaches who use power in their training systems.
:)

P.S. Intellectual property is a legal term...just so you know...hence my confusion about your real concern.


With that, I'll leave you with a famous quote:
Nothing is original.
--mom (and assorted other philosophers.)

[Spicoli]

You're wrong. And this is not a legal issue, it's an ethical one. Our friend Too Tall presented someone else's work as his own. I think that's wrong. Apparently you do not.
Go ride your bike please. For me, I find it very relaxing and it makes me a better person.

[Too Tall]

You're wrong. And this is not a legal issue, it's an ethical one. Our friend Too Tall presented someone else's work as his own. I think that's wrong. Apparently you do not.
Asgelle - It was never my intent to present Andy's work as my own. Any further discussion needs to go offline.

[Fat Robert]

.